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Question Dr.?

Posted by Tammie on 2/21/02 at 18:39 (074588)

Would you look and see if this is a typical TTS surgery to u? Carole made it for me so that I could show where it occured as some have told me this is not typical?

http://ww.geocities.com/CLCinNOLA/tammie.html

Recently a new Ortho Dr. told me he thought I had all symtoms of RSD and he would not touch me right now but would urge me to see a pain specialist at pain mangagement. He also showed me where there is a spur on large toe joint which he felt THAT is what they should have done as he says it is in between and every time my toe flexes it hits it??Had a name like with a halux? something. He did not and cannot understand WHY a pf release or the TTS surgery was done he says there should never have been two sugeries especially that close to gether in time.

I am now done sulking and ready to start looking again for SOMEONE to help ? But big question now is should I go to a neuro, ortho, pod, or pain management? I had new xrays done but noone wants to give me a mri? They say it is obvious the trouble, WHY? Could you give me a opioion at least at the type of dr. i should find. I have now seen 2 orthos 3 pods, primary,and now am in limbo as I walked out on last ortho.Oh yes I have seen 3 different PT places as each dr. had there own choice!

Re: To Tammie Question Dr.?

Pauline on 2/21/02 at 21:12 (074611)

Tammie,
Quite honestly Tammie, I think you are on overload and my personal opinion as I stated once before is a conprehensive medical examination at a large major medical center where they will start at the top and line you up with every medical doctor they think you need to see. Your approach to me seems scattered once again with out any journaling or gathering together all of your medical records. You seem to stop, take a breath and then appear to be off an running without a clear plan of action.

I think Julie pointed out in one of her posts that she hoped you were using your printer because although you receive a variety of valuable answers you are unable to put together a plan of action and I think that's because you are basically overwhelmed. You need one person to call the shots. One leader to take hold and set up all the necessary appointments and tests to hopefully get you on a new road to recovery and return to health. That's why I strongly suggest a comprehensive approach to solve your difficult problem.

One of the things journaling does is list all the things you tried all the roads you've been down, all the physicians you've seen, all the treatments you've tried, all the tests that you've had and all the results that happened.

It puts it in black and white for you to see where you have been and it also tells the story of what has happened to the next physician or physicians you choose to see. By gathering copies of all the things I listed in my earlier post, test results etc. the next physician will be able to understand all of your history.

Everyone on this board can continue to post our opinion on which kind of physician you should see, but you know we are all really guessing stating an opinion which has no real basis because we are not equipt to make that decision for you. Our knowledge is limited by the fact that we are not doctors who played a part in the care that you've had, nor have we seen let alone interpreted any of your test results because that too is beyond our area of expertise.

You've asked us to guess before and we all did but it didn't provide you with a cure or leave you pain free. If we all guess again why should the result be any different? We're just going down the same road again.

I personally feel your condition has become very serious both physically and mentally and certainly exceeds our expertise and by continuing to guess we chance putting you at higher risk.

Support we can lend, encouragement we can give, love enough to go around, but what you need most in addition to what we can offer is to sit down and journal first, collect your documents, then get a good comprehensive medical work up from top to bottom at a major medical center of your choice.

Others may disagree, but I see a pattern that has formed because you've taken this path before and experience tells us if we repeat the same thing over and over we usually get the same results. I don't want that to happen to you, I'd like to see you try a new approach.

Re: URL of Tammie's feet

Carole C in NOLA on 2/21/02 at 21:16 (074612)

Tammie, here is the URL:

http://www.geocities.com/CLCinNOLA/tammie.html

This should work.

Carole C

Re: Question Dr.?

wendyn on 2/21/02 at 23:26 (074627)

If you want my opinion...your last doctor is probably right about the diagnosis of RSD. If I were you, I would swallow my pride and go back to him, if you do not feel you can deal with him - tell him that you accept his diagnosis but that you would feel more comfortable being treated by a different doctor - ask him to refer you and your records...as well as with a letter from him.

As Pauline said - you are not taking a 'trail' with you otherwise, and you may lose track of valuable information.

We've had this discussion in general before...but basically we often find ourselves looking for a 'good doctor' who will tell us what we want to hear.

If you found a 'good doctor' - what would that doctor say to you - what would he or she be able to do that would make you feel like you had found the right one?

Sometimes a good doctor can give a bad first impression, Laurie hated her pain doctor the first visit - but later he turned out to be great.

Would it really be so bad to go back, agree that you got off to a rough start, and try again?

Otherwise, I'm afraid that you'll be doing this over and over. What if the next doctor tells you the same thing?

Re: Question Dr.?RE Wendyn

Laurie R on 2/22/02 at 00:06 (074635)

You are so right about my PM doctor . I thought I am never coming back her again . Ok now I give him hugs , really I do . And at the surgery center , he is so awesome , so compassionate and takes his time . He knows me well now and he knows all bout my anxiety and all the pain that comes from the RSD . He is to funny this man always has a phone , I don't care where he is , heis on a phone . I just learned what was more important , and went from there... I feel he is a awesome PM doctor and I did have to give him another chance , lucky for me it worked out ...

Another reason I did not care for him on the first visit , he told me that he wanted to try the spinal injections , something I did not want to hear nor do .. But they help , so it is not that bad at all...

I agree with you Wendyn ... Laurie R

Re: Gee Thanks

Tammie on 2/22/02 at 14:22 (074702)

Thanks for making my day complete! I sure hope yours was better as I didnt really think that I was doing anything wrong . I do have my papers in a folder I had them when I seen last Dr. tho he DID not want any of them , he said he does his own dx.Dr. Z had said maybe a pain management would be good. I wanted to be sure this time as I would like to stay.

And for all information the reason I had changed dr.s so often is because I was advised here to get more opionions. I did and so far I have a variety,but two tend to agree with the rsd stuff. My primary was the first then the last ortho, and I just recently was told my primary is leaving she will work fast track in ERoom due to hospital cuts.So After next week I lose the one dr. that has truly tried to steer me to the dr.s . I am glad tht you all are so sure of how to do all this, it is great! Thanks for the great advice.

I hope that you have a wonderful weekend.

Re: Question Dr.?

Tammie on 2/22/02 at 14:31 (074705)

I will not swallow my pride or anything else! I will not work with a Dr. who will not allow me to talk or say how I feel about what he tells me. I am not a baby (tho maybe you ) see me as that. I know what I am feeling and know I have a right to speak or talk and have a hand in my treatment! If a Dr. is so high up that he feels he does not need to here what I have to say then how can I work with him on a good plan to get my feet together. How can I respect him and how can he respect me! NO I will not go back to him, he might have the right dx that I cannot argue, but he is not the kind of Dr. I want to take care of me!I have no problem getting my files from him , my husband is a patient of his and wants to continue.
He Is a good dr. and has a good rep and is connected to the Cleveland clinic. I now respect his dx but still he cannot be the one to treat me.

Thanks for the support, and help. In this case I do not want to return to him and it has NOTHING to do with his dx.He was a sarcastic pompus ortho with all I heard about his greatness from him .I had hoped he would do the mri like he had said as that is what many thought I should get.

Re: Laurie

Tammie on 2/22/02 at 14:33 (074706)

Didn't u email me telling me you thought I should see a pain management dr? Thanks for the help!

Re: Your welcome

wendyn on 2/22/02 at 14:40 (074708)

Tammie - I can't tell if your responses are sarcastic or not. You don't have to like them, you don't have to take them, you don't have to agree with them.

But, if you don't want opinions, please don't ask for them. As for, me - I have no desire to upset you...but I don't appear to be able to tell you what you want to hear.

I wish you all the best with your care, but I respectfully bow out from offering any future opinions on your medical treatment.

Re: Question Dr.?

Julie on 2/22/02 at 14:45 (074710)

Tammie, I thought Wendy had a good idea. If you accept that the ortho's diagnosis was probably correct, what have you got to lose (except your 'pride', which is irrelevant) by returning to him and trying to get on a productive footing with him? You were upset, overwrought, and carrying very high expectations when you saw him, and that probably had something to do with the way your consultation went. It's possible that in your highly emotional state you put HIM on the defensive.

He has a good reputation, and your husband gets along with him, so I'd be inclined to give him another chance. Don't forget that it takes time to establish a relationship with anyone - and that includes a doctor.

One of the best doctors I know is a sarcastic, pompous ortho. I've seen him several times (for injections in a trigger thumb and finger) and I get on very well with him.

Re: Hi Wendy

Julie on 2/22/02 at 14:49 (074711)

We're not often on line at the same moment, so I thought I'd say hello.

Hello! :-)

Re: Hi Julie

wendyn on 2/22/02 at 14:56 (074714)

I am at work (shhhh)

I was just coming back from lunch

Re: Hi Wendy

Julie on 2/22/02 at 14:58 (074715)

I won't tell a soul. Mum's the word.

Have a nice weekend! How are your feet today?

Re: Wendyn

Tammie on 2/22/02 at 15:23 (074721)

No I was not being sarcastic Wendyn, I am sorry it seemed that way. I did ask and you nicly responded and I come here for ADVICE and to find ways to help myself! As you might read, I feel quite overwelmed with all of the different things going on! I feel like laughing silly till I can laugh nomore as I do seem to be going in circles! I was maybe putting to much responsibility on others to take charge but I guess it is time I get this right myself! I guess it is now time to progress in age and not act like the obediant child! It is nice to have people who tell it like it is!

I for one need this side as well as the hand holding thing when I flip out. I have always had great fear of the dr.s and the so called white coat. I think it is time now to get a bit of control back and take some control back in my life! I am sorry that u felt I was being sarcastic, I was not with you at all! I just was saying I will not return to him LOL I am laughing as I can still see this bitty man, saying I am the dr. I do not need anyones thoughts but my own. So again please I am thanking you for opening my eyes , even tho at times i do not want to ! I hope I can still ask for advice.Ps dont we all want to hear some good news at times? It has been a poo day I have a person to add to the list mr. bossman who says I should Find a REAL Dr. if only he new how hard that is to do! Thanks again and I am saying this from the heart

Re: Julie,He told me

Tammie on 2/22/02 at 15:30 (074722)

To find a good pain mangement dr. And he would have me get into pt and water therapy and to massage the scars. He did not offer a Dr.s name . I guess what throws me is Elliott sort of sounded angry that I had not gone to who he suggested, and I thought maybe I should do that instead? I was waiting to hear about that dr. Yu as that was one he had mentioned.But seems like Ron who seen him was not impressed. But will see. Thank u, oh yes What pride lol me have pride ha that is almost funny, as it makes me think of crawling around or bumping down the basement stairs to do laundry sometimes heheh! No pride is not a issue.

Re: definition of insanity

Carmen H on 2/22/02 at 15:54 (074725)

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
That's what your posts reminded me of Pauline.
But well put and journaling is the one thing that saved my own sanity.
Kept me on the right track totally.

Re: Julie,He told me

Carmen H on 2/22/02 at 16:37 (074734)

Quit letting Elliott throw you off in any form or fashion. He's gone.

Re: Laurie

Laurie R on 2/22/02 at 18:16 (074744)

Hi Tammie , Yes I did email you and say I think a pain management doctor would be the best for you to see at this point. I was just wondering why you are asking me if I did ?

As far as I know Ortho doctors really don't treat RSD , of course I could be wrong . As soon as I got the diagnosis from a specialist that I did have RSD my Pod wanted me in pain management right away . Of course I had to wait a while for WC to cover it . Pian management doctors deal with RSD .

Wheather this Ortho doc you saw was good , bad , whatever it does not matter at this point , you have to find someone else to treat the RSD .

All I can tell you is , I have RSD and have been going for treatment since Sept . It is very painful so I understand what you go though , but you have to be the one to find the doctor that is going to treat you right . Their are many wonderful doctors Tammie . Me myself if a doctor treated me the way you say you were treated I would not go back either . But don't let him stop you from getting the care and treatment you need...

PLEASE don't wait , if you do indeed have RSD it needs to be treated now ...

I care about you and do not want to see you worse off. You know the terrible pain you have now and have been having , believe me with RSD it can and will get worse ..... I think this is the best advise I can give you . I won't lie they are going to probably want to give you spinal injections so start to put a control on your RSD . I will go this Monday for my 5 th one....

Let me know if I can be of any help ,you know I am here for you . Much love , Laurie R

Re: Sorry ment Tammie on the above message.EOM

Laurie R on 2/22/02 at 18:17 (074745)

EOM

Re: Laurie

Tammie on 2/22/02 at 19:30 (074754)

thank u I will as soon as I can! Thanks I thought u did but I deleted it by accident! This is hard stuff , I dont know it will either make me tough or make me fall apart, after reading back on posts, I maybe have been falling apart. I like to have things nice and smoothe, lol I am the one who carried absoulty a bit of everything in my diaper bags and purse,always prepared for what ever! I think about that game show do u remember i think price is right or something when at end they would ask audiance to find some thing and they would give them money if they had it? Lol I guess I have been very overwelmed and to many things for this , with hubby and myself. If it was only one of us it might be a bit easyer. So now I am going to figure out new game plan.

Whatever happens It will be my choice! Heh thanks again, if you dont hear from me dont worry I may take julie advice! I need to get a grip, and not drop it all here! It is embarresing to see so many posts , Type to dump this deppression and get on with finding answers! I will let you know if I have sucess!

Re: To Tammie Question Dr.?

Pauline on 2/21/02 at 21:12 (074611)

Tammie,
Quite honestly Tammie, I think you are on overload and my personal opinion as I stated once before is a conprehensive medical examination at a large major medical center where they will start at the top and line you up with every medical doctor they think you need to see. Your approach to me seems scattered once again with out any journaling or gathering together all of your medical records. You seem to stop, take a breath and then appear to be off an running without a clear plan of action.

I think Julie pointed out in one of her posts that she hoped you were using your printer because although you receive a variety of valuable answers you are unable to put together a plan of action and I think that's because you are basically overwhelmed. You need one person to call the shots. One leader to take hold and set up all the necessary appointments and tests to hopefully get you on a new road to recovery and return to health. That's why I strongly suggest a comprehensive approach to solve your difficult problem.

One of the things journaling does is list all the things you tried all the roads you've been down, all the physicians you've seen, all the treatments you've tried, all the tests that you've had and all the results that happened.

It puts it in black and white for you to see where you have been and it also tells the story of what has happened to the next physician or physicians you choose to see. By gathering copies of all the things I listed in my earlier post, test results etc. the next physician will be able to understand all of your history.

Everyone on this board can continue to post our opinion on which kind of physician you should see, but you know we are all really guessing stating an opinion which has no real basis because we are not equipt to make that decision for you. Our knowledge is limited by the fact that we are not doctors who played a part in the care that you've had, nor have we seen let alone interpreted any of your test results because that too is beyond our area of expertise.

You've asked us to guess before and we all did but it didn't provide you with a cure or leave you pain free. If we all guess again why should the result be any different? We're just going down the same road again.

I personally feel your condition has become very serious both physically and mentally and certainly exceeds our expertise and by continuing to guess we chance putting you at higher risk.

Support we can lend, encouragement we can give, love enough to go around, but what you need most in addition to what we can offer is to sit down and journal first, collect your documents, then get a good comprehensive medical work up from top to bottom at a major medical center of your choice.

Others may disagree, but I see a pattern that has formed because you've taken this path before and experience tells us if we repeat the same thing over and over we usually get the same results. I don't want that to happen to you, I'd like to see you try a new approach.

Re: URL of Tammie's feet

Carole C in NOLA on 2/21/02 at 21:16 (074612)

Tammie, here is the URL:

http://www.geocities.com/CLCinNOLA/tammie.html

This should work.

Carole C

Re: Question Dr.?

wendyn on 2/21/02 at 23:26 (074627)

If you want my opinion...your last doctor is probably right about the diagnosis of RSD. If I were you, I would swallow my pride and go back to him, if you do not feel you can deal with him - tell him that you accept his diagnosis but that you would feel more comfortable being treated by a different doctor - ask him to refer you and your records...as well as with a letter from him.

As Pauline said - you are not taking a 'trail' with you otherwise, and you may lose track of valuable information.

We've had this discussion in general before...but basically we often find ourselves looking for a 'good doctor' who will tell us what we want to hear.

If you found a 'good doctor' - what would that doctor say to you - what would he or she be able to do that would make you feel like you had found the right one?

Sometimes a good doctor can give a bad first impression, Laurie hated her pain doctor the first visit - but later he turned out to be great.

Would it really be so bad to go back, agree that you got off to a rough start, and try again?

Otherwise, I'm afraid that you'll be doing this over and over. What if the next doctor tells you the same thing?

Re: Question Dr.?RE Wendyn

Laurie R on 2/22/02 at 00:06 (074635)

You are so right about my PM doctor . I thought I am never coming back her again . Ok now I give him hugs , really I do . And at the surgery center , he is so awesome , so compassionate and takes his time . He knows me well now and he knows all bout my anxiety and all the pain that comes from the RSD . He is to funny this man always has a phone , I don't care where he is , heis on a phone . I just learned what was more important , and went from there... I feel he is a awesome PM doctor and I did have to give him another chance , lucky for me it worked out ...

Another reason I did not care for him on the first visit , he told me that he wanted to try the spinal injections , something I did not want to hear nor do .. But they help , so it is not that bad at all...

I agree with you Wendyn ... Laurie R

Re: Gee Thanks

Tammie on 2/22/02 at 14:22 (074702)

Thanks for making my day complete! I sure hope yours was better as I didnt really think that I was doing anything wrong . I do have my papers in a folder I had them when I seen last Dr. tho he DID not want any of them , he said he does his own dx.Dr. Z had said maybe a pain management would be good. I wanted to be sure this time as I would like to stay.

And for all information the reason I had changed dr.s so often is because I was advised here to get more opionions. I did and so far I have a variety,but two tend to agree with the rsd stuff. My primary was the first then the last ortho, and I just recently was told my primary is leaving she will work fast track in ERoom due to hospital cuts.So After next week I lose the one dr. that has truly tried to steer me to the dr.s . I am glad tht you all are so sure of how to do all this, it is great! Thanks for the great advice.

I hope that you have a wonderful weekend.

Re: Question Dr.?

Tammie on 2/22/02 at 14:31 (074705)

I will not swallow my pride or anything else! I will not work with a Dr. who will not allow me to talk or say how I feel about what he tells me. I am not a baby (tho maybe you ) see me as that. I know what I am feeling and know I have a right to speak or talk and have a hand in my treatment! If a Dr. is so high up that he feels he does not need to here what I have to say then how can I work with him on a good plan to get my feet together. How can I respect him and how can he respect me! NO I will not go back to him, he might have the right dx that I cannot argue, but he is not the kind of Dr. I want to take care of me!I have no problem getting my files from him , my husband is a patient of his and wants to continue.
He Is a good dr. and has a good rep and is connected to the Cleveland clinic. I now respect his dx but still he cannot be the one to treat me.

Thanks for the support, and help. In this case I do not want to return to him and it has NOTHING to do with his dx.He was a sarcastic pompus ortho with all I heard about his greatness from him .I had hoped he would do the mri like he had said as that is what many thought I should get.

Re: Laurie

Tammie on 2/22/02 at 14:33 (074706)

Didn't u email me telling me you thought I should see a pain management dr? Thanks for the help!

Re: Your welcome

wendyn on 2/22/02 at 14:40 (074708)

Tammie - I can't tell if your responses are sarcastic or not. You don't have to like them, you don't have to take them, you don't have to agree with them.

But, if you don't want opinions, please don't ask for them. As for, me - I have no desire to upset you...but I don't appear to be able to tell you what you want to hear.

I wish you all the best with your care, but I respectfully bow out from offering any future opinions on your medical treatment.

Re: Question Dr.?

Julie on 2/22/02 at 14:45 (074710)

Tammie, I thought Wendy had a good idea. If you accept that the ortho's diagnosis was probably correct, what have you got to lose (except your 'pride', which is irrelevant) by returning to him and trying to get on a productive footing with him? You were upset, overwrought, and carrying very high expectations when you saw him, and that probably had something to do with the way your consultation went. It's possible that in your highly emotional state you put HIM on the defensive.

He has a good reputation, and your husband gets along with him, so I'd be inclined to give him another chance. Don't forget that it takes time to establish a relationship with anyone - and that includes a doctor.

One of the best doctors I know is a sarcastic, pompous ortho. I've seen him several times (for injections in a trigger thumb and finger) and I get on very well with him.

Re: Hi Wendy

Julie on 2/22/02 at 14:49 (074711)

We're not often on line at the same moment, so I thought I'd say hello.

Hello! :-)

Re: Hi Julie

wendyn on 2/22/02 at 14:56 (074714)

I am at work (shhhh)

I was just coming back from lunch

Re: Hi Wendy

Julie on 2/22/02 at 14:58 (074715)

I won't tell a soul. Mum's the word.

Have a nice weekend! How are your feet today?

Re: Wendyn

Tammie on 2/22/02 at 15:23 (074721)

No I was not being sarcastic Wendyn, I am sorry it seemed that way. I did ask and you nicly responded and I come here for ADVICE and to find ways to help myself! As you might read, I feel quite overwelmed with all of the different things going on! I feel like laughing silly till I can laugh nomore as I do seem to be going in circles! I was maybe putting to much responsibility on others to take charge but I guess it is time I get this right myself! I guess it is now time to progress in age and not act like the obediant child! It is nice to have people who tell it like it is!

I for one need this side as well as the hand holding thing when I flip out. I have always had great fear of the dr.s and the so called white coat. I think it is time now to get a bit of control back and take some control back in my life! I am sorry that u felt I was being sarcastic, I was not with you at all! I just was saying I will not return to him LOL I am laughing as I can still see this bitty man, saying I am the dr. I do not need anyones thoughts but my own. So again please I am thanking you for opening my eyes , even tho at times i do not want to ! I hope I can still ask for advice.Ps dont we all want to hear some good news at times? It has been a poo day I have a person to add to the list mr. bossman who says I should Find a REAL Dr. if only he new how hard that is to do! Thanks again and I am saying this from the heart

Re: Julie,He told me

Tammie on 2/22/02 at 15:30 (074722)

To find a good pain mangement dr. And he would have me get into pt and water therapy and to massage the scars. He did not offer a Dr.s name . I guess what throws me is Elliott sort of sounded angry that I had not gone to who he suggested, and I thought maybe I should do that instead? I was waiting to hear about that dr. Yu as that was one he had mentioned.But seems like Ron who seen him was not impressed. But will see. Thank u, oh yes What pride lol me have pride ha that is almost funny, as it makes me think of crawling around or bumping down the basement stairs to do laundry sometimes heheh! No pride is not a issue.

Re: definition of insanity

Carmen H on 2/22/02 at 15:54 (074725)

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
That's what your posts reminded me of Pauline.
But well put and journaling is the one thing that saved my own sanity.
Kept me on the right track totally.

Re: Julie,He told me

Carmen H on 2/22/02 at 16:37 (074734)

Quit letting Elliott throw you off in any form or fashion. He's gone.

Re: Laurie

Laurie R on 2/22/02 at 18:16 (074744)

Hi Tammie , Yes I did email you and say I think a pain management doctor would be the best for you to see at this point. I was just wondering why you are asking me if I did ?

As far as I know Ortho doctors really don't treat RSD , of course I could be wrong . As soon as I got the diagnosis from a specialist that I did have RSD my Pod wanted me in pain management right away . Of course I had to wait a while for WC to cover it . Pian management doctors deal with RSD .

Wheather this Ortho doc you saw was good , bad , whatever it does not matter at this point , you have to find someone else to treat the RSD .

All I can tell you is , I have RSD and have been going for treatment since Sept . It is very painful so I understand what you go though , but you have to be the one to find the doctor that is going to treat you right . Their are many wonderful doctors Tammie . Me myself if a doctor treated me the way you say you were treated I would not go back either . But don't let him stop you from getting the care and treatment you need...

PLEASE don't wait , if you do indeed have RSD it needs to be treated now ...

I care about you and do not want to see you worse off. You know the terrible pain you have now and have been having , believe me with RSD it can and will get worse ..... I think this is the best advise I can give you . I won't lie they are going to probably want to give you spinal injections so start to put a control on your RSD . I will go this Monday for my 5 th one....

Let me know if I can be of any help ,you know I am here for you . Much love , Laurie R

Re: Sorry ment Tammie on the above message.EOM

Laurie R on 2/22/02 at 18:17 (074745)

EOM

Re: Laurie

Tammie on 2/22/02 at 19:30 (074754)

thank u I will as soon as I can! Thanks I thought u did but I deleted it by accident! This is hard stuff , I dont know it will either make me tough or make me fall apart, after reading back on posts, I maybe have been falling apart. I like to have things nice and smoothe, lol I am the one who carried absoulty a bit of everything in my diaper bags and purse,always prepared for what ever! I think about that game show do u remember i think price is right or something when at end they would ask audiance to find some thing and they would give them money if they had it? Lol I guess I have been very overwelmed and to many things for this , with hubby and myself. If it was only one of us it might be a bit easyer. So now I am going to figure out new game plan.

Whatever happens It will be my choice! Heh thanks again, if you dont hear from me dont worry I may take julie advice! I need to get a grip, and not drop it all here! It is embarresing to see so many posts , Type to dump this deppression and get on with finding answers! I will let you know if I have sucess!