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Phase 4 Orthotics - Comments?

Posted by Laurie G on 3/03/02 at 12:13 (075533)

I've just watched the Phase 4 Orthotics infomercial, http://www.phase4orthotics.com and wondering if anyone has tried these?

Re: Phase 4 Orthotics - Comments?

Carole C in NOLA on 3/03/02 at 16:02 (075564)

I read that these are nearly identical to Alzner orthotics, but much less expensive. However, I also read that Alzner orthotics don't work too well on most people. I got that idea from reading the archives of this message board, searching on Alzner.

If you decide to try them, let us know how they are!

Carole C

Re: Phase 4 Orthotics - Comments?

BG CPed on 3/03/02 at 21:44 (075589)

It is a crock and nonsense. I would go to http://www.superfeet.com or on this site and order a $30 pre made device. It is better than supporting a company that is slimey

Re: Phase 4 Orthotics - Comments?

Richard, C.Ped on 3/04/02 at 12:25 (075627)

Don't do it. If you want any kind of OTC orthosis, try the Superfeet.
Brian was much nicer in his description of Phase 4 than I want to be.

Richard

Re: Phase 4 Orthotics - Comments?

Ed Davis, DPM on 3/04/02 at 16:43 (075655)

At least the Phase 4 people are selling their pre-fabs at a reasonable price. Many people are walking out of the Good Feet stores with $300 $600 worth of pre-fab orthotics.....
Ed

Re: Phase 4 Orthotics - Comments?

Ardee W. on 3/12/02 at 15:28 (076282)

Just shows that different things work for different people. I have used Phase 4 orthotics for months now and feel uncomfortable now if I forget to switch them to the shoes I am wearing that day. They take about a week to break in. Instructions come with them on only wearing a few hours first day and working up to it. They have not 'cured' my PF, but I am happy with them. I also did not have any 'slimey' ? dealings with the company.....???

Re: Phase 4 Orthotics - Comments?

BG CPed on 3/18/02 at 21:58 (076790)

Well they are slimey. The 'infomercial' is nonsense. It is at best a $30 pre made device that should be available in drug stores and sporting good stores. The Good Foot stores should be ashamed, I get rather miffed when I get some elderly lady come in from one of their stores and goted hosed up to $600 for an off the shelf shoe and a few pair of pre made inserts. That is slimey in my opinion. If they work for you and you are pain free or close to it thats great

Re: Phase 4 Orthotics - Comments?

DR Zuckerman on 3/19/02 at 01:07 (076796)

The pairs that I have seen come into my office have caused alot of pain for my patients. There just so many less expensive over the counter inserts such as the power step that can be used . I have to give these insets the thumbs down in the garage rating. Maybe that's how they become slimy by being in the garage with the left over pizza pies

Re: Phase 4 Orthotics - Comments?

BG CPed on 3/19/02 at 06:56 (076806)

2 thumbs up for Dr Z rating. From a basic biomechanics and materials standpoint they are noting special. The rearfoot has zero correction from a varus/valgus standpoint. It is a negative heel with no elevation whatsoever, many pt have tight heel cord and benefit from some thickness under heel.
The heelcup is low and flimsy, to get control it should be firmer and deeper. The arch is ok for the average foot but nothing special. It has a met pad built in which is good if you can tolerate it.

They are injection molded which is a one shot cookie cutter process. There is nothing wrong with that but at their slaes rate and costs of molds I would bet they cost about $1.25 to manufacture.

In short they are ok to put in a tight dress shoe if it fits and you dont want to buy custom dress fo. Based on that info and the sometimes sleazy infomercial hucksterism they should cost $20 to $29 and be available at drug stores and sporting goods stores.

The F.D.A. controls things like shockwave which needs to happen. But when you have people making claims and recomendations i.e. RX and DX with no medical training it irks me.

Just like all the rip off artists selling 'all natural' pills to help everything. The key frase to keep feds off their back is that it 'supports' good health. I could mix spring water and goats urine and claim it 'Supports Hair Growth' I could run those ads all day long on the radio and not get in trouble.

Maybe someday the Feds will start going after or change the loophole that allows this crap. OK Richard,now it is your turn

Re: False advertising

wendyn on 3/19/02 at 07:33 (076812)

I can't stand those ads either.

LOSE WEIGHT NOW, NO EXERCISE NO DIETS.

It's mean, and it's wrong. I can't believe people can get away with that.

Re: False advertising

Julie on 3/19/02 at 08:16 (076818)

'They' can get away with anything if they're saying something that people are desperate to believe. That's exactly what's so cynical, and so wrong, about it.

Re: Phase 4 Orthotics - Comments?

Richard, C.Ped on 3/19/02 at 16:29 (076860)

tag team Phase 4 bashing...I love it. I kept out of it just because I am tired of bashing it all the time. Guess there are still more out there that actually believe in these things.

I don't know if PFA is doing anything about it, but I would really like to see some laws in place that you can not make an orthotic if you are not certified in some way..ie...DPM, C.Ped. I think it should be illegal to make a prescription item if you are not certified. I also agree with what you said about those coming up with their own diagnosis....very much illegal.

I wonder how much they paid Stuart Pankin to advertise those things.

Stuart Pankin needs a spankin!
Richard

Re: more bashing and an idea

Carole C in NOLA on 3/19/02 at 17:21 (076864)

I'm not tired of bashing. It relieves stress! Lemme attem! LOL

Anyway, that only makes sense, that it should be against the law to make orthotics without certification. A really BAD orthotic can really mess a person up! Custom orthotics are powerful 'medicine'.

One of you C.Ped's made the analogy that a C.Ped is like a pharmacist for the feet. I like that! It makes sense to me.

Last week I went to a chain drugstore and asked the pharmacist which OTC seasick medicine was best, since I was leaving immediately for the ship and didn't have time to see a doctor and get a prescription for something stronger. He told me and I bought it.

That would be a great way to get an OTC orthotic too, if one did not have the money or time for a custom orthotic. One could drop into a chain foot store and ask a C.Ped which OTC ones are best for whatever purpose one has in mind. I think it's ridiculous that they don't employ C.Peds.

Also, I think it would be neat if there was something like a 'C.Ped Supreme' certification, for top notch C.Peds with years of experience and skill and wisdom (the creme de la creme of C.Peds, like my C.Ped). Then people who need that expertise could be assured that they were getting it, and paying for it too of course.

Carole C

Re: more bashing and an idea

BG CPed on 3/19/02 at 19:19 (076894)

Those are good ideas. I asked before of our board regarding a higher level above standard board cert. I think the standard board exam has about a 40% fail rate on first try. I would love to have a higher level or some type of felowship program. Spending several days with a person with greater experience is more valuble than months of book time.

I believe California, New Jersey and possible Chicago/Ill has or is passing legislation that orthotics cant be made by a non certified person.

Maybe I will buy a bunch of close out Ab Stimulators and tear out the electronics. I could then glue it to a velcro arch strap and say it 'supports' good plantar fascia health. Maybe show a fat guy sitting in a lazyboy drinking beer and eating chips getting a great fascia workout at the same time

Re: more bashing and an idea

Carole C in NOLA on 3/19/02 at 19:45 (076898)

A fellowship program would be perfect, though I was thinking of more like several years with the person of greater experience rather than several days. Sort of like interns and residents at a hospital. Of course, they become specialists and earn more than a general practicioner.

Likewise, a 'C.Ped Supreme' or whatever should have some sort of special and distinctive title and people would pay more to see him or her than to see the wet behind the ears newly certified C.Ped down the street. But, the 'C.Ped Supreme' would not have to be in school as long as a DPM and would be earning good money while learning in this way. Maybe after a year or two they could undergo some sort of rigorous and grueling hands-on final exam for a week or so, and have a short refresher seminar every few years.

In general, it seems like there is a shortage of C.Peds, and requiring certification would probably create more of them, a good outcome in my opinion. I'm glad that at least three states have 'seen the light'. Louisiana (where I live) will of course be last. We're last in everything.

Hey, why bother with the electronics. Re-sell some thick wool socks from Wally World for a grand per pair. They support good plantar fascia health too, and would hold up your arches sort of if you hold them on with 30-40 rubber bands each. PF feel better with thick socks than they do barefoot, and the itchy wool would promote better circulation, too. With the extra money, buy your fat guy an additional carton of malt balls or milk duds, and some creme soda (I don't drink, but my ex patiently explained to me that milk duds and beer just don't go together).

Carole C

Re: more bashing and an idea

Richard, C.Ped on 3/20/02 at 07:45 (076954)

The 'pharmacist for the feet' comment was mine. I was interviewed by a local tv station a couple of years ago, and out of the thirty minutes they talked to me, the only spoken part they used was that comment. It was pretty cool.

I think an extended program would be great. The only problem with the schooling and continuing education programs is that most of it is done up north or in the midwest. We need something here in the South so I don't have to travel so far away from my wife and baby. I looked into becoming an orthotist as well. The closest school for that is in Pittsburgh. Even though we have family there, I don't want to move away for two years.

I also think that along with the written exam, we should have to fabricate different types of orthotics which count as half the grade. I had to figure that stuff out on my own. The schools I went to hardly covered that. We had to make a bunch of orthotics, but the instructors acted very hesitant to tell us different ways to fabricate. I think that is a major reason why so many people receive different products.

Looking at the finished product my biggest competition here offers, you would not know that we went to the same school. I get a ton of prescriptions to fix what they make in some way or another...ha ha. Sorry, I just had to throw that in!! LOL!

Richard

Re: Phase 4 Orthotics - Comments?

Mike S on 3/20/02 at 15:04 (077006)

Have had PF (both feet)for 9 years. 5 Doctors, a release surgury, 2 pairs of $450+ orthodics that didn't work and many painful rounds of golf later I tried phase 4. Believe it or not they have really worked for ME. Try ucansave.com and they are $19.99 a pair. The infomercials are terrible, but at this point I would try anything.

Coupled with doing 2 sets of heal lifts (I am up to 75 a set) in the shower everyday, I haven't felt this good since 1993.

Re: more bashing and an idea

Carole C in NOLA on 3/20/02 at 19:31 (077037)

Yes, that hands on stuff, the stuff you can't learn from a book, is what makes all the difference it seems to me. At least it does in most fields, and that's why I think there should be an advanced certification, that's more than just classes. I can appreciate the problems with moving to a different state for further certification, though.

Carole C

Re: Phase 4 Orthotics - Comments?

Carole C in NOLA on 3/20/02 at 19:38 (077038)

What is a heel lift? I thought it was a 1/8' thick piece of gel you put in the heel of your shoe. But 75 of those wouldn't work..... :)

Carole C

Re: Phase 4 Orthotics - Comments?

Mike S on 3/21/02 at 08:26 (077084)

Its just standing with your feet shoulder width apart and raising up on the balls of your feet. It strengthens the calf muscles and the ankles. I don't know why, but in my case it has really helped. Start slow and work your way up.

I do it in the shower every morning so it becomes routine.

After nine years, I was ready to do ANTHING. Good luck.

Re: standing on tip toes

Carole C in NOLA on 3/21/02 at 11:52 (077109)

Gee, and I was concerned about standing on tiptoes once a day (to get the coffee can down from my cabinet) being bad for my PF. Guess if you can do it in sets of 75 every day without re-injury, there's no need for me to be concerned.

Carole C

Re: standing on tip toes

Mike S on 3/21/02 at 15:03 (077118)

Just be careful and start slow. If you are as type A as me, you may overdue it.

Re: more bashing and an idea

John on 9/03/02 at 06:41 (094319)

Not sure if this thread is active. But you 'bashers' drive me crazy, the reason there are so many people pushing all type of treatments out there is that the American Medical establishment has totatly failed in many areas of medical care especially chronic type problems.

Just becuase someone went to school for a few years does mean that they have some special gift to heal, most are just product distribution channels for the drug companies and other medical companies, both good and bad product.

Anyone that tries to bypass this establishment in distributing any type of health product (good or bad) is attacked by the American Medical establishment.

They healthiest people are those that research there own health and use as NATURAL and COMMON SENSE products and stay as far away from the American Medical Establishment as possible.

I've been going through these various threads, and not a single one of these DOCs has offered anything interesting that cannot just be research by a non-medical person, they are just spewing memorized medical text diagnonsis and prescription information.

Re: more bashing and an idea

John on 9/03/02 at 06:56 (094322)

and that hands on stuff is also what often causes quality problems and variations. It is also why machines make most health products to high quality, consistant standards, at a much, much lower cost.

Seems to me that most of these feet doctors make an enormous % of their incomes from custom orthodics and gain to lose an awful lot of money once it is figured out how to squash this self serving group of medical professionals. They constantly bash anything that is not a custom made device and even those made by others.

Re: And yet another idea

wendyn on 9/03/02 at 07:37 (094324)

Welcome John! I'm willing to guess that you're a phase4 guy who's finally arrived here? Rather than pounding on the doctors who are offering their opinion, why don't you tell us what you think? What do you suggest?

Why are pre-fab products so good?

You may or may not find others who agree with you here, but I'd sure be interested to hear your side of the story.

Re: and another - well, the same one, really

Julie on 9/03/02 at 09:02 (094334)

Wendy, that's just exactly, precisely, what I was going to say. Great minds?

John, how about, instead of negatively bashing those who post here, give us your ideas.

If you're going to do that, I'd suggest you start a new thread. This one began six months ago and is well and truly buried. Not everyone reads 'All messages posted since your last visit'.

Re: Phase 4 Orthotics - Comments?

Carole C in NOLA on 3/03/02 at 16:02 (075564)

I read that these are nearly identical to Alzner orthotics, but much less expensive. However, I also read that Alzner orthotics don't work too well on most people. I got that idea from reading the archives of this message board, searching on Alzner.

If you decide to try them, let us know how they are!

Carole C

Re: Phase 4 Orthotics - Comments?

BG CPed on 3/03/02 at 21:44 (075589)

It is a crock and nonsense. I would go to http://www.superfeet.com or on this site and order a $30 pre made device. It is better than supporting a company that is slimey

Re: Phase 4 Orthotics - Comments?

Richard, C.Ped on 3/04/02 at 12:25 (075627)

Don't do it. If you want any kind of OTC orthosis, try the Superfeet.
Brian was much nicer in his description of Phase 4 than I want to be.

Richard

Re: Phase 4 Orthotics - Comments?

Ed Davis, DPM on 3/04/02 at 16:43 (075655)

At least the Phase 4 people are selling their pre-fabs at a reasonable price. Many people are walking out of the Good Feet stores with $300 $600 worth of pre-fab orthotics.....
Ed

Re: Phase 4 Orthotics - Comments?

Ardee W. on 3/12/02 at 15:28 (076282)

Just shows that different things work for different people. I have used Phase 4 orthotics for months now and feel uncomfortable now if I forget to switch them to the shoes I am wearing that day. They take about a week to break in. Instructions come with them on only wearing a few hours first day and working up to it. They have not 'cured' my PF, but I am happy with them. I also did not have any 'slimey' ? dealings with the company.....???

Re: Phase 4 Orthotics - Comments?

BG CPed on 3/18/02 at 21:58 (076790)

Well they are slimey. The 'infomercial' is nonsense. It is at best a $30 pre made device that should be available in drug stores and sporting good stores. The Good Foot stores should be ashamed, I get rather miffed when I get some elderly lady come in from one of their stores and goted hosed up to $600 for an off the shelf shoe and a few pair of pre made inserts. That is slimey in my opinion. If they work for you and you are pain free or close to it thats great

Re: Phase 4 Orthotics - Comments?

DR Zuckerman on 3/19/02 at 01:07 (076796)

The pairs that I have seen come into my office have caused alot of pain for my patients. There just so many less expensive over the counter inserts such as the power step that can be used . I have to give these insets the thumbs down in the garage rating. Maybe that's how they become slimy by being in the garage with the left over pizza pies

Re: Phase 4 Orthotics - Comments?

BG CPed on 3/19/02 at 06:56 (076806)

2 thumbs up for Dr Z rating. From a basic biomechanics and materials standpoint they are noting special. The rearfoot has zero correction from a varus/valgus standpoint. It is a negative heel with no elevation whatsoever, many pt have tight heel cord and benefit from some thickness under heel.
The heelcup is low and flimsy, to get control it should be firmer and deeper. The arch is ok for the average foot but nothing special. It has a met pad built in which is good if you can tolerate it.

They are injection molded which is a one shot cookie cutter process. There is nothing wrong with that but at their slaes rate and costs of molds I would bet they cost about $1.25 to manufacture.

In short they are ok to put in a tight dress shoe if it fits and you dont want to buy custom dress fo. Based on that info and the sometimes sleazy infomercial hucksterism they should cost $20 to $29 and be available at drug stores and sporting goods stores.

The F.D.A. controls things like shockwave which needs to happen. But when you have people making claims and recomendations i.e. RX and DX with no medical training it irks me.

Just like all the rip off artists selling 'all natural' pills to help everything. The key frase to keep feds off their back is that it 'supports' good health. I could mix spring water and goats urine and claim it 'Supports Hair Growth' I could run those ads all day long on the radio and not get in trouble.

Maybe someday the Feds will start going after or change the loophole that allows this crap. OK Richard,now it is your turn

Re: False advertising

wendyn on 3/19/02 at 07:33 (076812)

I can't stand those ads either.

LOSE WEIGHT NOW, NO EXERCISE NO DIETS.

It's mean, and it's wrong. I can't believe people can get away with that.

Re: False advertising

Julie on 3/19/02 at 08:16 (076818)

'They' can get away with anything if they're saying something that people are desperate to believe. That's exactly what's so cynical, and so wrong, about it.

Re: Phase 4 Orthotics - Comments?

Richard, C.Ped on 3/19/02 at 16:29 (076860)

tag team Phase 4 bashing...I love it. I kept out of it just because I am tired of bashing it all the time. Guess there are still more out there that actually believe in these things.

I don't know if PFA is doing anything about it, but I would really like to see some laws in place that you can not make an orthotic if you are not certified in some way..ie...DPM, C.Ped. I think it should be illegal to make a prescription item if you are not certified. I also agree with what you said about those coming up with their own diagnosis....very much illegal.

I wonder how much they paid Stuart Pankin to advertise those things.

Stuart Pankin needs a spankin!
Richard

Re: more bashing and an idea

Carole C in NOLA on 3/19/02 at 17:21 (076864)

I'm not tired of bashing. It relieves stress! Lemme attem! LOL

Anyway, that only makes sense, that it should be against the law to make orthotics without certification. A really BAD orthotic can really mess a person up! Custom orthotics are powerful 'medicine'.

One of you C.Ped's made the analogy that a C.Ped is like a pharmacist for the feet. I like that! It makes sense to me.

Last week I went to a chain drugstore and asked the pharmacist which OTC seasick medicine was best, since I was leaving immediately for the ship and didn't have time to see a doctor and get a prescription for something stronger. He told me and I bought it.

That would be a great way to get an OTC orthotic too, if one did not have the money or time for a custom orthotic. One could drop into a chain foot store and ask a C.Ped which OTC ones are best for whatever purpose one has in mind. I think it's ridiculous that they don't employ C.Peds.

Also, I think it would be neat if there was something like a 'C.Ped Supreme' certification, for top notch C.Peds with years of experience and skill and wisdom (the creme de la creme of C.Peds, like my C.Ped). Then people who need that expertise could be assured that they were getting it, and paying for it too of course.

Carole C

Re: more bashing and an idea

BG CPed on 3/19/02 at 19:19 (076894)

Those are good ideas. I asked before of our board regarding a higher level above standard board cert. I think the standard board exam has about a 40% fail rate on first try. I would love to have a higher level or some type of felowship program. Spending several days with a person with greater experience is more valuble than months of book time.

I believe California, New Jersey and possible Chicago/Ill has or is passing legislation that orthotics cant be made by a non certified person.

Maybe I will buy a bunch of close out Ab Stimulators and tear out the electronics. I could then glue it to a velcro arch strap and say it 'supports' good plantar fascia health. Maybe show a fat guy sitting in a lazyboy drinking beer and eating chips getting a great fascia workout at the same time

Re: more bashing and an idea

Carole C in NOLA on 3/19/02 at 19:45 (076898)

A fellowship program would be perfect, though I was thinking of more like several years with the person of greater experience rather than several days. Sort of like interns and residents at a hospital. Of course, they become specialists and earn more than a general practicioner.

Likewise, a 'C.Ped Supreme' or whatever should have some sort of special and distinctive title and people would pay more to see him or her than to see the wet behind the ears newly certified C.Ped down the street. But, the 'C.Ped Supreme' would not have to be in school as long as a DPM and would be earning good money while learning in this way. Maybe after a year or two they could undergo some sort of rigorous and grueling hands-on final exam for a week or so, and have a short refresher seminar every few years.

In general, it seems like there is a shortage of C.Peds, and requiring certification would probably create more of them, a good outcome in my opinion. I'm glad that at least three states have 'seen the light'. Louisiana (where I live) will of course be last. We're last in everything.

Hey, why bother with the electronics. Re-sell some thick wool socks from Wally World for a grand per pair. They support good plantar fascia health too, and would hold up your arches sort of if you hold them on with 30-40 rubber bands each. PF feel better with thick socks than they do barefoot, and the itchy wool would promote better circulation, too. With the extra money, buy your fat guy an additional carton of malt balls or milk duds, and some creme soda (I don't drink, but my ex patiently explained to me that milk duds and beer just don't go together).

Carole C

Re: more bashing and an idea

Richard, C.Ped on 3/20/02 at 07:45 (076954)

The 'pharmacist for the feet' comment was mine. I was interviewed by a local tv station a couple of years ago, and out of the thirty minutes they talked to me, the only spoken part they used was that comment. It was pretty cool.

I think an extended program would be great. The only problem with the schooling and continuing education programs is that most of it is done up north or in the midwest. We need something here in the South so I don't have to travel so far away from my wife and baby. I looked into becoming an orthotist as well. The closest school for that is in Pittsburgh. Even though we have family there, I don't want to move away for two years.

I also think that along with the written exam, we should have to fabricate different types of orthotics which count as half the grade. I had to figure that stuff out on my own. The schools I went to hardly covered that. We had to make a bunch of orthotics, but the instructors acted very hesitant to tell us different ways to fabricate. I think that is a major reason why so many people receive different products.

Looking at the finished product my biggest competition here offers, you would not know that we went to the same school. I get a ton of prescriptions to fix what they make in some way or another...ha ha. Sorry, I just had to throw that in!! LOL!

Richard

Re: Phase 4 Orthotics - Comments?

Mike S on 3/20/02 at 15:04 (077006)

Have had PF (both feet)for 9 years. 5 Doctors, a release surgury, 2 pairs of $450+ orthodics that didn't work and many painful rounds of golf later I tried phase 4. Believe it or not they have really worked for ME. Try ucansave.com and they are $19.99 a pair. The infomercials are terrible, but at this point I would try anything.

Coupled with doing 2 sets of heal lifts (I am up to 75 a set) in the shower everyday, I haven't felt this good since 1993.

Re: more bashing and an idea

Carole C in NOLA on 3/20/02 at 19:31 (077037)

Yes, that hands on stuff, the stuff you can't learn from a book, is what makes all the difference it seems to me. At least it does in most fields, and that's why I think there should be an advanced certification, that's more than just classes. I can appreciate the problems with moving to a different state for further certification, though.

Carole C

Re: Phase 4 Orthotics - Comments?

Carole C in NOLA on 3/20/02 at 19:38 (077038)

What is a heel lift? I thought it was a 1/8' thick piece of gel you put in the heel of your shoe. But 75 of those wouldn't work..... :)

Carole C

Re: Phase 4 Orthotics - Comments?

Mike S on 3/21/02 at 08:26 (077084)

Its just standing with your feet shoulder width apart and raising up on the balls of your feet. It strengthens the calf muscles and the ankles. I don't know why, but in my case it has really helped. Start slow and work your way up.

I do it in the shower every morning so it becomes routine.

After nine years, I was ready to do ANTHING. Good luck.

Re: standing on tip toes

Carole C in NOLA on 3/21/02 at 11:52 (077109)

Gee, and I was concerned about standing on tiptoes once a day (to get the coffee can down from my cabinet) being bad for my PF. Guess if you can do it in sets of 75 every day without re-injury, there's no need for me to be concerned.

Carole C

Re: standing on tip toes

Mike S on 3/21/02 at 15:03 (077118)

Just be careful and start slow. If you are as type A as me, you may overdue it.

Re: more bashing and an idea

John on 9/03/02 at 06:41 (094319)

Not sure if this thread is active. But you 'bashers' drive me crazy, the reason there are so many people pushing all type of treatments out there is that the American Medical establishment has totatly failed in many areas of medical care especially chronic type problems.

Just becuase someone went to school for a few years does mean that they have some special gift to heal, most are just product distribution channels for the drug companies and other medical companies, both good and bad product.

Anyone that tries to bypass this establishment in distributing any type of health product (good or bad) is attacked by the American Medical establishment.

They healthiest people are those that research there own health and use as NATURAL and COMMON SENSE products and stay as far away from the American Medical Establishment as possible.

I've been going through these various threads, and not a single one of these DOCs has offered anything interesting that cannot just be research by a non-medical person, they are just spewing memorized medical text diagnonsis and prescription information.

Re: more bashing and an idea

John on 9/03/02 at 06:56 (094322)

and that hands on stuff is also what often causes quality problems and variations. It is also why machines make most health products to high quality, consistant standards, at a much, much lower cost.

Seems to me that most of these feet doctors make an enormous % of their incomes from custom orthodics and gain to lose an awful lot of money once it is figured out how to squash this self serving group of medical professionals. They constantly bash anything that is not a custom made device and even those made by others.

Re: And yet another idea

wendyn on 9/03/02 at 07:37 (094324)

Welcome John! I'm willing to guess that you're a phase4 guy who's finally arrived here? Rather than pounding on the doctors who are offering their opinion, why don't you tell us what you think? What do you suggest?

Why are pre-fab products so good?

You may or may not find others who agree with you here, but I'd sure be interested to hear your side of the story.

Re: and another - well, the same one, really

Julie on 9/03/02 at 09:02 (094334)

Wendy, that's just exactly, precisely, what I was going to say. Great minds?

John, how about, instead of negatively bashing those who post here, give us your ideas.

If you're going to do that, I'd suggest you start a new thread. This one began six months ago and is well and truly buried. Not everyone reads 'All messages posted since your last visit'.

Re: Phase 4 Orthotics - Comments?

Ed Harley on 6/17/06 at 17:38 (201358)

I think Stuart had gasteric bypass....not just walking.