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Visitors

Posted by wendyn on 3/04/02 at 22:21 (075692)

Kay - where are all of you who promised to come visit if I could promise fluffy snow to roll around in?

WE HAVE PLENTY.

It is cold cold cold, and snowing, snowing, snowing, snowing.

True - we really need the wet - we've had a dry couple years...but this is stupid.

It is hard to wear Birks in deep snow! I was wearing them this morning before all the snow came - I stepped on a wooden edging that was covered in ice - almost landed right on my a**! Instead - one leg went one way - the other went the other way....

Julie you would have been proud of me from a flexibility point of view, didn't know my legs could do that.

I am ready for spring.

If anyone knows where it is - please send some my way.

Re: Visitors

Nancy N on 3/05/02 at 05:36 (075709)

Wendy--

You must have all the precipitation those of us on the East Coast are waiting for! We're in the middle of a winter drought here and if things don't change in the next two or three months, it's going to be an awful summer (unless we get lucky and have a cool summer to go with our warm winter). So I would think that you guys could scoop up that snow, load up a freight train or three with the stuff, and cart it out here for us--it would get it out of your way, and help solve our problem :) Spring seems to have been here for weeks (or you could argue that autumn never left)--while last night was the coldest we've had all year, going down to something like 12 or 17F, it's expected to be in the upper 40s tomorrow, and maybe 60 by Friday. It's a wonder we're not all sick. We'll have had at least two seasons in one week.

I hope you didn't hurt yourself when you fell--nothing broken?? Take care of yourself in all the white stuff!

Re: Visitors

wendyn on 3/05/02 at 07:30 (075711)

Nope - nothing broken!

Achey feet though, sore bunions, must be the cold and the damp.

We have had a couple dry years too - and very little snow this year (in the city) at least up until about a month ago.

March is typically a very heavy snow month for us.

I would accept this better if I had boots! Next year for sure...

Re: Visitors -- snowless in maine, and a note to you snow-angel fans

nancy s. on 3/05/02 at 07:56 (075713)

i'm afraid you won't be seeing me, wendy, because i never look for that white fluffy stuff anymore. here on the southern maine coast we've had almost none of it. the few times it came down, it blew away almost immediately, or faded mysteriously. we've been looking at brown ground and having temps from the 20s at night to up to 50 during the day. i've never seen a winter like this here. as nancy says, it's almost as if autumn never left, and i couldn't be happier about it -- my favorite season, which usually lasts about two weeks here, not fair at all. this year is making up for many other years. we were out sitting on the beach in chairs in november, and could have done it this past weekend.

it's a good thing, no snow, because i never have found the perfect snow boots for these foot conditions. if you discover any, let me know. i did graduate from birks to cross-trainers for the snow, so that's a start.

good luck, and no more almost falling down.

p.s. to all you snow-angel fans from the warm country: i lied when i said i'd make you a snow angel, for two reasons: (1) no snow; (2) with two frozen shoulders i can't flap one bit, and it would be one pathetic snow angel. what was i thinking? duh!

nancy
nancy

Re: Visitors

JudyS on 3/05/02 at 10:53 (075731)

Wendy - bright blue skies and 70 degrees here in Sunny Southern California. I'll box some up for you and ship it today, ok? :)

Re: Snow Angels, Wendy, quick! :) eom

JudyS on 3/05/02 at 10:56 (075733)

:)

Re: I fell yesterday, Wendy, WITH boots on and no snow!

Suzanne D on 3/05/02 at 11:55 (075742)

Hi, Wendy. I'm sorry you fell; I can sympathize! I think you did it much more gracefully than I did yesterday. And I can't even use snow for a reason!

It was bitterly cold here Sunday and yesterday. There were a few flurries and a little ice yesterday morning - enough to delay school opening an hour. So I wore my boots which I got a few years ago - the 'old lady' type with the fur lining and zippers up the front. But they are warm, and my Birk inserts fit in them, so I was happy.

That was until I decided to take down the cardboard mittens and snowflakes hanging from my classroom ceiling and replace them with shamrocks and leprechauns. I know, it was snowy, but it IS March, after all. And, like you, I am ready for Spring!

So I did like I have done for 22 years (Please don't anyone fuss at me; I've fussed enough at myself already!): I stood in children's chairs to do the job. What I didn't know was that one child's chair had a split in the side. When I stepped on that part, it 'gave', my ankle twisted, and I unceremoniously landed in the floor on my behind, startling the children very much.

There was a hushed silence followed by a couple of suppressed chuckles (I don't blame them!). Then one little girl piped up in my defense and said, 'There's not one funny thing about this! Don't anybody laugh! Are you okay, Mrs. Dennis?' This was followed by a chorus of 'Are you alright? Does it hurt?'

I replied that it DID hurt, but I would get up as quickly as I could. Then came a brave little voice, 'Mrs. Dennis, that really was dangerous, wasn't it? And that's why you NEVER let US stand in our chairs!' Boy, did I feel dumb!

I replied, 'Yes, you are right. I should have been more careful.'

Then the phone rang - There ARE disadvantages to having a phone in the room! - and I had to hurry to get up. After all, I couldn't ask one of the children to answer it as the first words out of their mouth would have been, 'My Dennis can't come to the phone because she is on the floor!'

I sat on a heating pad last night and am sore today, but I think my pride is hurt worse than anything. First my feet, then my knees, now my behind...Where will it end?! :-)

I hope you feel better, Wendy! At least you all had some snow!

Re: I fell yesterday, Wendy, WITH boots on and no snow!

Carole C in NOLA on 3/05/02 at 18:45 (075771)

Ow! But what a great teacher you are, to keep your head and use even this accident to teach the children not to stand on their chairs. After 22 years, maybe a step stool is in order. :)

Hope your behind (and feet, and knees) feel better soon.

Carole C

Re: Visitors

john h on 3/06/02 at 09:24 (075819)

Wendy: Sunny and 70 in the Rock today! It will soon be sandal time.

Re: I fell yesterday, Wendy, WITH boots on and no snow!

Carmen H on 3/06/02 at 14:35 (075842)

You can just hear how much those kids love you in that story!

Re: Suzanne

wendyn on 3/07/02 at 22:32 (075935)

I loved your falling off the chair story...well not because you fell...but the story was awfully cute. Sounds very much like something I might do!

Re: My Pity Party

wendyn on 3/07/02 at 22:36 (075936)

I am still pouting in the depths of self pity, which explains my lack of posts.

Our weather is still about a solid -22 F right now, and the forecast for Friday, Saturday and Sunday is the same temp...with snow.

I was walking through the snow in my Birks today. It was cold and slippery and wet. I refused to put real shoes on today because my bunions hurt so much.

Cold wet sore feet do very little to improve the disposition. I would like to think spring is around the corner....I have had enough.

Re: Spring is Coming!

Carole C in NOLA on 3/07/02 at 22:53 (075938)

Wendy, hang on! Spring comes back every year at springtime, even in Canada (or so I hear - LOL). Pretty soon you will be seeing the first spring flowers bloom, and a few rays of sunshine, and the cold wetness will go away. It will be spring and everyone will have spring fever, wanting to get out and enjoy it, acting crazy, and falling in love.

Now that you are home, you can warm and dry your poor sore feet. Maybe massage them some or do something to pamper them. Tomorrow is Friday and I hope that means that you won't have to go out as much on the weekend. Meanwhile, I'm glad you didn't slip. Cold wet sore feet are no fun, but if you had slipped you have more that was cold and wet and sore than your feet. :)

Carole C

Re: Spring is Coming!

wendyn on 3/08/02 at 07:53 (075943)

I know it will come eventually, it's just hard to do much when it's like this. I don't want to go anywhere - I just want to eat and go to sleep...some sort of hibrenation thing happening.

The weather is supposed to start to improve Monday.

I hope.

I may try to do some shoe shopping this weekend, I've decided that my shoe experts here are probably right. The old New Balance shoes have too much motion control for me...as a result, I'm left with several pairs of old birks, one pair of getting worn out custom birks, and one pair of dress shoes. Hardly appropriate foot wear for winter, or a wet spring.

I really hate shoe shopping because I find it so frustrating...but I think I've waited long enough!

Re: Spring is Coming!

Julie on 3/08/02 at 08:29 (075944)

Wendy, it IS time you went shoe shopping. Be brave. You need something that covers your feet. Why don't you have a look at my favourites, North Face Targas. They're kind of clumpy, but they look more like shoes than most hiking shoes do, and they feel wonderful (to me) - protective and supportive. They might be ok for an arctic winter (or spring).

Spring came to London yesterday. The daffodils and cherry blossoms have been out for a couple of weeks, but it has been so windy and chilly that it has still felt like winter. But yesterday was beautiful - sunny, breezy, warm, and it SMELLED like Spring, which is one of the ways I judge (the other being the lengthening hours of daylight, which is also happening). So cheer up: it's bound to come to the frozen north fairly soon!

I hope so.

Re: Spring is Coming!

Julie on 3/08/02 at 08:31 (075945)

I just noticed your remark about hurting bunions. Targas have plenty of room for bunions.

Re: My Pity Party

john h on 3/08/02 at 09:29 (075950)

71 again the Rock Wendy with big thunderstorms this evening. You know what Birkenstock should do is create a Birk Snow Shoe.

Re: Spring is Coming!

john h on 3/08/02 at 09:35 (075951)

Why would a motion control shoe be bad for you Wendy? I am still sold on the New Balance Cross Trainers (853.854,ect). They are motion control. I would not think you would want a real flexable shoe would you? If so why? My reading says a reasonably stiff sole that bends primarly at the balls of the foot. Of course, shoes are so persoanl to all of us that the truth is the only thing I am really sure of is shoes is better than no shoes. Judy is also thinking about switching from New Balance so it must be something in the air.

Re: Flowers and leaves

wendyn on 3/08/02 at 11:59 (075954)

It has been about 6 months since I saw a flower, or green grass, or a green leaf.

(sigh)

Re: to Wendy...

Suzanne D on 3/08/02 at 12:02 (075955)

Wendy, I hope Spring comes very soon to Canada! Yesterday was in the 60's here, and today it is in the 70's! But this morning's paper stated we will have a high of 40 on Sunday with the low in the 20's, so we are on a roller coaster! We began this week with a windshill at zero. Kentucky weather... as temperamental as my feet! :-)

Good luck with your shoe shopping! I have felt in the past two weeks or so that my Birks which I have loved and worn for 6 months were not feeling as good for me anymore. I even believe that the new problem with my knees could be from walking differenty in them. And so I went shopping Monday and bought SAS Free Time walking shoes (lace-up with good support and room for my Birk inserts) and have worn them to school the rest of the week. Right now they are feeling good, and I am hopeful they will help. It's an ongoing challenge, isn't it?

Hang in there! What is that quote..'If WInter comes, can Spring be far behind?' I am good at remembering quotes and poor at remembering who wrote or said it! But, anyway, it fits our thoughts today!

Suzanne :-)

Re: wonderful weekend headed Wendy's way

Carole C in NOLA on 3/08/02 at 16:52 (075976)

The custodial workers at work were complaining today that it is too hot. Spring is coming your way, it's coming eventually, Wendy!

I am going to be shoe shopping tomorrow also. You will probably have better luck than me and probably you will have more fun than you think. This time I'm not going to get any more shoes that are compromises. Either I will get a shoe that I actually would normally want, that happens to also be a good supportive shoe that I can now wear (finally!), or I will get nothing and continue on with my clown shoes and Birkenstocks. I want to try on those Rockports and maybe also SAS.

Carole C

Re: Motion control shoes don't work for ALL of us, y'know... :)

Carole C in NOLA on 3/08/02 at 16:56 (075977)

John, I don't know what kind of feet Wendy has. But 854's didn't work for me. They were SOOOOO comfortable on my feet, but they had me walking with my toes pointed outwards (the opposite of pigeon toed), almost at right angles to how they should be.

That gave me knee problems and hurt my back, after only wearing them for one or two hours. I returned them.

I don't severely overpronate, and I guess I turned my feet like that to compensate for the tipping inwards that motion control shoes do.

Carole C

Re: (oops)

Carole C in NOLA on 3/08/02 at 17:30 (075981)

oops, I guess motion controls tip you outwards! Whatever. Anyway, they messed with my gait.

Carole C

Re: (oops) / motion control

nancy s. on 3/08/02 at 18:55 (075984)

um, i have an image in my brain of what a motion control shoe does, but in fact i don't have a clue how it's constructed and how it controls motion. i don't even know if i have any motion control shoes or not.

for my education, can anyone explain the fundamentals of a motion control shoe?

thanks.
ignorantly yours,
nancy

Re: Motion control shoes don't work for ALL of us, y'know... :)

wendyn on 3/08/02 at 19:25 (075986)

I overpronate a whole bunch. I wear orthotics, and I think that it's way too much correction with the motion control shoes. I purchased them because my PT at the time recommended them.

I cannot stand a flexible shoe - the more rigid the better...so I have trouble understanding why these shoes are such a bad thing for me - but they are!

Re: wonderful weekend headed Wendy's way

wendyn on 3/08/02 at 19:26 (075987)

I hope so Carole, the kids haven't been allowed out for lunch or recess all week....they are going to go crazy soon.

Re: (oops) / motion control

Carole C in NOLA on 3/08/02 at 20:11 (075989)

Usually 'motion control' seems to mean that they control severe pronation, or rolling of the foot towards the medial direction during walking. So motion control shoes are supposed to be good for moderate to severe pronators, depending upon the shoe. They are heavily posted and have roll bars and all sorts of stuff to keep your foot from rolling that way.

If a person is a high arched supinator, usually they would want a neutral cushioned shoe rather than a motion control shoe. Or so I've read.

If a person is in between, maybe a mild pronator, then the shoe for them is called a stability shoe. It might have some medial posting, but it's not going to be as heavily posted as a motion control shoe.

I'm not sure where I read about all this, but maybe it was at http://www.roadrunner.com ? Most of the athletic shoe sites talk about it a little bit. Hope this helps!

Carole C

Re: (oops) / motion control

John h on 3/08/02 at 21:38 (075998)

Nancy: You can really do the Hokey Pokey in motion control shoes.

Re: Hokey Pokey

Carole C in NOLA on 3/08/02 at 22:51 (076006)

I can't do the Hokey Pokey in motion control shoes. I do the Hokey Ploppy as my feet plop down sideways. Plop! Plop!

I wonder if that's how the feet go in that 'Walk Like an Egyptian' dance that was so popular with the junior high bunch a few years back?

Carole C ('Walk Like an Egyptian...')(big Egyptian-like smile)

Re: Motion control shoes don't work for ALL of us, y'know... :)

wendyn on 3/08/02 at 23:44 (076008)

I don't know 'how much' I pronate, but if I stand barefoot I have to conciously 'hold up' my right foot by rolling out onto my outer foot. If I completely relaxed I would roll too far in - so I sort of 'prop' my foot between my big toe pushed down, my baby toe and my heel.

Guess that would explain why I have bunions where I do!

Re: (oops) / motion control

nancy s. on 3/09/02 at 02:21 (076014)

thanks, carole. i'm a mild pronator, so motion control would probably be overkill for me. i appreciate knowing, because i was wondering if i was missing a boat i should be on. i've been on this board for over two years, but it's only recently that the term 'motion control' has been appearing here. must be all you serious and detailed shoe researchers!

john, motion CONTROL sure does sound like one would have to dance pokily.

birks remain the only shoes i can wear for a long time without pain. i go walking in nb 608 cross trainers or in the brooks addiction walk lady, but as soon as i try to stop and stand around in any of them, forget it. apparently i'm going to be a birks addict for life. i'm waiting for my new cooper tatamis to arrive in the mail.

nancy

Re: (oops) / motion control

Carole C in NOLA on 3/09/02 at 08:49 (076019)

That Cooper Tatami looks pretty nice! It is a low arch Tatami according to the Birkenstock Express site. I have never tried the low arch Tatami's, but I been wearing the high arch Tatami's, like the Amsterdam and Fulda, and these have been great for me. Still, I'd like to eventually get away from just Birkenstocks or prescription custom orthotics, and wear other over the counter shoes.

I'm new at this athletic shoe jargon, so I didn't know that terms like 'motion control' were new.
Right now, I am wearing my new New Balance 879 running shoes. They are a neutral cushioning shoe that I exchanged my New Balance 854 motion control shoes for. I spent ten minutes this morning tightening the laces of the 879's as tightly as humanly possible. That did help with the huge toebox, so that my whole foot doesn't slip around so much. But the first thing that happened when I stood up, is that my heel started slipping around in the back. How discouraging. I need firm steady heel support, so this shoe is by no means the perfect shoe for me. However, at least I walk straight in them, so I don't need to worry about other injuries from wearing them. Next year when I am all healed I think I will be able to wear them without that loose slippery heel bothering me so much. Meanwhile, I may try buying VERY THICK socks like a Canadian cross country skiier might wear in the winter. Maybe that will help take up some of the extra room.

If you are a mild overpronator and want a running shoe, the New Balance site suggests one of their 'supportive cushioning' shoes rather than their motion control shoes. They say that a 'supportive cushioning' shoe like the 715 has some medial posting and is for mild to moderate overpronators. A 'cushioning' shoe like the 879 that I have is for people with a neutral gait, not overpronating or oversupinating. A 'stability/motion control' shoe like the 854 is for moderate to severe overpronators, and has the high tech stuff in it like the TPU posting and rollbar.

I think it is great that you walk in your 608 crosstrainers. When you do, if it doesn't hurt during or after, I'll bet you are strengthening your feet. Maybe in time you will be able to stand in them too. I was able to stand in my 854's for 20 minutes without any problem the first day, but I walked funny in them.

Carole C

Re: (oops) / motion control

John h on 3/09/02 at 09:09 (076022)

It may be the success of the Birk sandals is that they do not over control anything. They do provide some arch support but basically your feet fit loosely in them and just do what your feet have naturally done for all your life. PF causes all of to change the way we walk to some extent and probably only aggrevates the condition.

Re: (oops) / motion control

John h on 3/09/02 at 09:16 (076023)

Carole: On the New Balance web site they have a dinky little program that helps you select a shoe. You enter various things you do, etc and it selects a shoe. It selected the New Balance 841WB for me. Of course like any program garbage in garbage out. If you have a movie camera why do you not have one of your friends walk behind you (ha ha) and take a movie of your feet as you walk. It is real clear when you watch someone whether they are pronating or not. Most will. No camera have your friend describe how your feet are striking the ground and what they are doing. Some of the good athletic shoe stores have some sales people who are trained to watch you walk and tell you. Your feet act very different when you run.

Re: (oops) / motion control

John h on 3/09/02 at 10:54 (076029)

Carole: change that to the 841 mens version! I think the 841WB is the ladies version. By the way not all the shoe makers make shoes specifically for women. Some just downsize men's shoes which is not a shoe you should select unless you have a manly foot.

Re: Socks

Julie on 3/09/02 at 12:03 (076036)

Carole, your mentioning thick socks made me think of Thorlos. You probably know them. They come in several weights: I use the Light Hiking ones. They're soft, sutrdy, give lots of cushioning, are also quite supportive. Worth trying if you keep your new NBs and need a shoe-filler.

Re: (oops) / motion control

Carole C in NOLA on 3/09/02 at 14:32 (076043)

Thanks. This program doesn't come up with anything if I am a high arched mild overpronator, but if I tell it I'm neutral or a supinator it comes up with a few shoes. The one on roadrunner is not as easy to please.

I have had a lot of conflicting information and outright misinformation from my doctor and employees of athletic shoestores. I am beginning to think that it's unrealistic to expect anyone outside of heelspurs.com to bother make any effort in looking at my gait and telling me how I walk. To most people this is just aching feet, and they don't care or want to be bothered with helping someone by watching them walk.

Pardon my cynicism but today I'm not sure that most people are willing to help other people by doing anything, period. This is not one of my more optimistic or cheerful days.

Carole C

Re: (oops) / motion control

Carole C in NOLA on 3/09/02 at 14:35 (076044)

That's a crucial point, John. Men's shoes just don't seem snug enough about the heel for me. Some women's shoes aren't either, but men's shoes are worse.

Carole C

Re: (oops) / motion control

nancy s. on 3/09/02 at 15:49 (076048)

thanks, carole. i didn't know the cooper tatamis have a low arch, but it probably doesn't matter because i wear regular-arch bostons etc. and the higher-arch nebraska tatamis. my feet are low-arched and seem to be able to handle any birk arch i've tried (except for a ghastly pair of birk inserts i bought for $55 two years ago -- arch was WAY too high).

it does feel like i'm strengthening my feet when i walk in the nb crosstrainers; i've been taking walks in them for about four months. and my feet hurt not one iota while i'm doing it -- zero pain -- i can wear them an hour or more, as long as i'm walking at a good clip.

after my walk, if i keep the crosstrainers on, they're good for maybe half an hour, at most. then discomfort sets in, and if i don't switch to birks pretty fast, pain arrives in all its glory. it's weird, because the pain i get now when wearing the wrong shoes or when i overdo running around (not literally) doesn't resemble my pf pain, which was really awful for a long time, nor my triple-tendonitis pain. it's different: it hurts all over the bottom of my heels, mostly, as if i have no fat pad at all. a very strong ache that tips over into pain pain pain.

at that point i can't even stand to have the shoes touching the bottoms of my feet. i can't sit in them or anything -- i have to get them off pronto. big relief when i get into birks after that, and the pain i had doesn't last all day; it fades away over about an hour or two.

nancy

Re: Socks

John h on 3/09/02 at 16:08 (076055)

Also Julie it is near impossible to wear them out. I do however wear thick ones.

Re: (oops) / motion control

John h on 3/09/02 at 16:14 (076058)

I came across 5 or 6 studies conducted in countries where people went bare foot much of the time. All reached the same conclusion that these people had a lot less foot problems than people who wear shoes. In fact they had very few foot prombes. Running had nothing to do with it as many of these people ran barefoot a lot. These were studies conducted bu Doctors and other scientific personal. All reached much the same conclusion. Shoes make our foot structures became weaker. Draw your own conclusions.

Re: Thanks, Julie! (nm)

Carole C in NOLA on 3/09/02 at 17:25 (076065)

.

Re: (oops) / motion control

Carole C in NOLA on 3/09/02 at 17:43 (076066)

Ouch! I wonder if the pain that you are feeling in your heels might be something different from PF, as you suggest. Maybe for standing you need a shoe with a different kind of heel, perhaps more support and less cushioning or some such thing. Does your heel slip around in the 608's? Hopefully they are secure enough that it does not. At least the Birks will relieve the discomfort.

Some Birkenstock Tatamis have high arches, and some have low arches; the way that I find out is by looking at the birkenstockexpress.com site. If you look at a particular shoe there, and then look at its 'technical specifications' it will tell you. Some shoes (like your Nebraskas) have removable footbeds so a different arch height can be put in them. The Nebraskas are listed as low arch but a footbed with higher arch could have been shipped with them. Same with the Cooper. I think the Cooper looks so classy! It should be wonderful. :)

Carole C

Re: (oops) / motion control

nancy s. on 3/09/02 at 18:28 (076068)

i'm not sure about that terminology. i think 'low footbed' means not 'low arch' but that the footbed actually sits lower in the sandal. the removable footbed in my nebraskas actually have a little higher arch than my bostons and others, but they do sit low. i like that -- i feel more secure down under the rim a bit.

i just realized that i hit your birk url, but it took me to the german site, and maybe you're getting your terms from another site. i'll have to check it out by actually typing. apparently scott's link sends us to birk central even if the term 'birk' appears in another url.

my heel doesn't slide around at all in the 608s. they seem to fit perfectly. but you've given me food for thought: maybe i just can't take much of any cushioning at all. of course the cork of the birks provides some kind of give, which i'm not really aware of physically, but the general hardness of the footbed definitely gives me the right support. there must be some plastic heel cups or something i could try with my 608s -- something with little or no give. i'll try it.

nancy

Re: Nancy

Julie on 3/10/02 at 01:58 (076096)

Nancy, I'm really sorry to see that the demon foot pain is creeping insidiously up on you again. Do you think it's to do with your spending so much more time on your feet lately - the months of effort to get the store up and running, and now the running of it?

I know that when we're enjoying ourselves, and/or thinking about something else, or other people, we're quite capable of not noticing creeping pain until it shouts at us.

I know you've got your various crafty ways of getting off your feet, but maybe you could think of a few more? Especially since (if I've got it right) standing rather than seems to be your worst trigger.

Would thicker socks help any?

Re: Nancy

nancy s. on 3/10/02 at 09:57 (076105)

thanks, julie. i do think it's partly because i'm on my feet more in the shop. and when i'm doing some serious rearranging of things out there, i tend to stand there while i'm thinking about what i want to do. sometimes i think for a very long time!

if i do that only in birks, it's pretty much ok. the feet get tired and then achy if i really overdo it, even in birks, but they recover in no time.

i'm realizing that the problem is i want to work out there in athletic shoes -- so that i don't kill myself climbing up and down stepstools and so on. i've been trying to wear my new balance or brooks addictions when i'm out there working, and now i'm seeing that it's not going to, well, work. i need to wear the athletic shoes only when i'm out walking, and i need to work only in birks.

i was hoping i could graduate, but i don't think it's going to happen. darn! but i shall be a big girl and accept it.

nancy

Re: Nancy -- p.s. to julie

nancy s. on 3/10/02 at 10:14 (076106)

and yes, julie, you're right: standing is the worst! if i keep walking, i think i could walk for hours. and i'm really grateful that i can do that much, since i couldn't walk much of anywhere for two years.

standing is a completely different story. it's odd, isn't it? i can now stand in grocery lines in my birks, and for other short periods of time. but i still can't stand for a long time -- say, longer than 20 minutes -- without pain. in birks i can do it for that long, but in athletic shoes, forget it. and even standing in birks, after about 20 minutes the pain all over the bottoms of my heels sets in.

it seems weird to be able to walk far and long but still feel crumpled from standing for a short time. i guess it's the steadiness of the weight? but it must mean there's some kind of permanent damage, which has had me sort of upset for the past couple of days.

nancy

Re: Visitors

Nancy N on 3/05/02 at 05:36 (075709)

Wendy--

You must have all the precipitation those of us on the East Coast are waiting for! We're in the middle of a winter drought here and if things don't change in the next two or three months, it's going to be an awful summer (unless we get lucky and have a cool summer to go with our warm winter). So I would think that you guys could scoop up that snow, load up a freight train or three with the stuff, and cart it out here for us--it would get it out of your way, and help solve our problem :) Spring seems to have been here for weeks (or you could argue that autumn never left)--while last night was the coldest we've had all year, going down to something like 12 or 17F, it's expected to be in the upper 40s tomorrow, and maybe 60 by Friday. It's a wonder we're not all sick. We'll have had at least two seasons in one week.

I hope you didn't hurt yourself when you fell--nothing broken?? Take care of yourself in all the white stuff!

Re: Visitors

wendyn on 3/05/02 at 07:30 (075711)

Nope - nothing broken!

Achey feet though, sore bunions, must be the cold and the damp.

We have had a couple dry years too - and very little snow this year (in the city) at least up until about a month ago.

March is typically a very heavy snow month for us.

I would accept this better if I had boots! Next year for sure...

Re: Visitors -- snowless in maine, and a note to you snow-angel fans

nancy s. on 3/05/02 at 07:56 (075713)

i'm afraid you won't be seeing me, wendy, because i never look for that white fluffy stuff anymore. here on the southern maine coast we've had almost none of it. the few times it came down, it blew away almost immediately, or faded mysteriously. we've been looking at brown ground and having temps from the 20s at night to up to 50 during the day. i've never seen a winter like this here. as nancy says, it's almost as if autumn never left, and i couldn't be happier about it -- my favorite season, which usually lasts about two weeks here, not fair at all. this year is making up for many other years. we were out sitting on the beach in chairs in november, and could have done it this past weekend.

it's a good thing, no snow, because i never have found the perfect snow boots for these foot conditions. if you discover any, let me know. i did graduate from birks to cross-trainers for the snow, so that's a start.

good luck, and no more almost falling down.

p.s. to all you snow-angel fans from the warm country: i lied when i said i'd make you a snow angel, for two reasons: (1) no snow; (2) with two frozen shoulders i can't flap one bit, and it would be one pathetic snow angel. what was i thinking? duh!

nancy
nancy

Re: Visitors

JudyS on 3/05/02 at 10:53 (075731)

Wendy - bright blue skies and 70 degrees here in Sunny Southern California. I'll box some up for you and ship it today, ok? :)

Re: Snow Angels, Wendy, quick! :) eom

JudyS on 3/05/02 at 10:56 (075733)

:)

Re: I fell yesterday, Wendy, WITH boots on and no snow!

Suzanne D on 3/05/02 at 11:55 (075742)

Hi, Wendy. I'm sorry you fell; I can sympathize! I think you did it much more gracefully than I did yesterday. And I can't even use snow for a reason!

It was bitterly cold here Sunday and yesterday. There were a few flurries and a little ice yesterday morning - enough to delay school opening an hour. So I wore my boots which I got a few years ago - the 'old lady' type with the fur lining and zippers up the front. But they are warm, and my Birk inserts fit in them, so I was happy.

That was until I decided to take down the cardboard mittens and snowflakes hanging from my classroom ceiling and replace them with shamrocks and leprechauns. I know, it was snowy, but it IS March, after all. And, like you, I am ready for Spring!

So I did like I have done for 22 years (Please don't anyone fuss at me; I've fussed enough at myself already!): I stood in children's chairs to do the job. What I didn't know was that one child's chair had a split in the side. When I stepped on that part, it 'gave', my ankle twisted, and I unceremoniously landed in the floor on my behind, startling the children very much.

There was a hushed silence followed by a couple of suppressed chuckles (I don't blame them!). Then one little girl piped up in my defense and said, 'There's not one funny thing about this! Don't anybody laugh! Are you okay, Mrs. Dennis?' This was followed by a chorus of 'Are you alright? Does it hurt?'

I replied that it DID hurt, but I would get up as quickly as I could. Then came a brave little voice, 'Mrs. Dennis, that really was dangerous, wasn't it? And that's why you NEVER let US stand in our chairs!' Boy, did I feel dumb!

I replied, 'Yes, you are right. I should have been more careful.'

Then the phone rang - There ARE disadvantages to having a phone in the room! - and I had to hurry to get up. After all, I couldn't ask one of the children to answer it as the first words out of their mouth would have been, 'My Dennis can't come to the phone because she is on the floor!'

I sat on a heating pad last night and am sore today, but I think my pride is hurt worse than anything. First my feet, then my knees, now my behind...Where will it end?! :-)

I hope you feel better, Wendy! At least you all had some snow!

Re: I fell yesterday, Wendy, WITH boots on and no snow!

Carole C in NOLA on 3/05/02 at 18:45 (075771)

Ow! But what a great teacher you are, to keep your head and use even this accident to teach the children not to stand on their chairs. After 22 years, maybe a step stool is in order. :)

Hope your behind (and feet, and knees) feel better soon.

Carole C

Re: Visitors

john h on 3/06/02 at 09:24 (075819)

Wendy: Sunny and 70 in the Rock today! It will soon be sandal time.

Re: I fell yesterday, Wendy, WITH boots on and no snow!

Carmen H on 3/06/02 at 14:35 (075842)

You can just hear how much those kids love you in that story!

Re: Suzanne

wendyn on 3/07/02 at 22:32 (075935)

I loved your falling off the chair story...well not because you fell...but the story was awfully cute. Sounds very much like something I might do!

Re: My Pity Party

wendyn on 3/07/02 at 22:36 (075936)

I am still pouting in the depths of self pity, which explains my lack of posts.

Our weather is still about a solid -22 F right now, and the forecast for Friday, Saturday and Sunday is the same temp...with snow.

I was walking through the snow in my Birks today. It was cold and slippery and wet. I refused to put real shoes on today because my bunions hurt so much.

Cold wet sore feet do very little to improve the disposition. I would like to think spring is around the corner....I have had enough.

Re: Spring is Coming!

Carole C in NOLA on 3/07/02 at 22:53 (075938)

Wendy, hang on! Spring comes back every year at springtime, even in Canada (or so I hear - LOL). Pretty soon you will be seeing the first spring flowers bloom, and a few rays of sunshine, and the cold wetness will go away. It will be spring and everyone will have spring fever, wanting to get out and enjoy it, acting crazy, and falling in love.

Now that you are home, you can warm and dry your poor sore feet. Maybe massage them some or do something to pamper them. Tomorrow is Friday and I hope that means that you won't have to go out as much on the weekend. Meanwhile, I'm glad you didn't slip. Cold wet sore feet are no fun, but if you had slipped you have more that was cold and wet and sore than your feet. :)

Carole C

Re: Spring is Coming!

wendyn on 3/08/02 at 07:53 (075943)

I know it will come eventually, it's just hard to do much when it's like this. I don't want to go anywhere - I just want to eat and go to sleep...some sort of hibrenation thing happening.

The weather is supposed to start to improve Monday.

I hope.

I may try to do some shoe shopping this weekend, I've decided that my shoe experts here are probably right. The old New Balance shoes have too much motion control for me...as a result, I'm left with several pairs of old birks, one pair of getting worn out custom birks, and one pair of dress shoes. Hardly appropriate foot wear for winter, or a wet spring.

I really hate shoe shopping because I find it so frustrating...but I think I've waited long enough!

Re: Spring is Coming!

Julie on 3/08/02 at 08:29 (075944)

Wendy, it IS time you went shoe shopping. Be brave. You need something that covers your feet. Why don't you have a look at my favourites, North Face Targas. They're kind of clumpy, but they look more like shoes than most hiking shoes do, and they feel wonderful (to me) - protective and supportive. They might be ok for an arctic winter (or spring).

Spring came to London yesterday. The daffodils and cherry blossoms have been out for a couple of weeks, but it has been so windy and chilly that it has still felt like winter. But yesterday was beautiful - sunny, breezy, warm, and it SMELLED like Spring, which is one of the ways I judge (the other being the lengthening hours of daylight, which is also happening). So cheer up: it's bound to come to the frozen north fairly soon!

I hope so.

Re: Spring is Coming!

Julie on 3/08/02 at 08:31 (075945)

I just noticed your remark about hurting bunions. Targas have plenty of room for bunions.

Re: My Pity Party

john h on 3/08/02 at 09:29 (075950)

71 again the Rock Wendy with big thunderstorms this evening. You know what Birkenstock should do is create a Birk Snow Shoe.

Re: Spring is Coming!

john h on 3/08/02 at 09:35 (075951)

Why would a motion control shoe be bad for you Wendy? I am still sold on the New Balance Cross Trainers (853.854,ect). They are motion control. I would not think you would want a real flexable shoe would you? If so why? My reading says a reasonably stiff sole that bends primarly at the balls of the foot. Of course, shoes are so persoanl to all of us that the truth is the only thing I am really sure of is shoes is better than no shoes. Judy is also thinking about switching from New Balance so it must be something in the air.

Re: Flowers and leaves

wendyn on 3/08/02 at 11:59 (075954)

It has been about 6 months since I saw a flower, or green grass, or a green leaf.

(sigh)

Re: to Wendy...

Suzanne D on 3/08/02 at 12:02 (075955)

Wendy, I hope Spring comes very soon to Canada! Yesterday was in the 60's here, and today it is in the 70's! But this morning's paper stated we will have a high of 40 on Sunday with the low in the 20's, so we are on a roller coaster! We began this week with a windshill at zero. Kentucky weather... as temperamental as my feet! :-)

Good luck with your shoe shopping! I have felt in the past two weeks or so that my Birks which I have loved and worn for 6 months were not feeling as good for me anymore. I even believe that the new problem with my knees could be from walking differenty in them. And so I went shopping Monday and bought SAS Free Time walking shoes (lace-up with good support and room for my Birk inserts) and have worn them to school the rest of the week. Right now they are feeling good, and I am hopeful they will help. It's an ongoing challenge, isn't it?

Hang in there! What is that quote..'If WInter comes, can Spring be far behind?' I am good at remembering quotes and poor at remembering who wrote or said it! But, anyway, it fits our thoughts today!

Suzanne :-)

Re: wonderful weekend headed Wendy's way

Carole C in NOLA on 3/08/02 at 16:52 (075976)

The custodial workers at work were complaining today that it is too hot. Spring is coming your way, it's coming eventually, Wendy!

I am going to be shoe shopping tomorrow also. You will probably have better luck than me and probably you will have more fun than you think. This time I'm not going to get any more shoes that are compromises. Either I will get a shoe that I actually would normally want, that happens to also be a good supportive shoe that I can now wear (finally!), or I will get nothing and continue on with my clown shoes and Birkenstocks. I want to try on those Rockports and maybe also SAS.

Carole C

Re: Motion control shoes don't work for ALL of us, y'know... :)

Carole C in NOLA on 3/08/02 at 16:56 (075977)

John, I don't know what kind of feet Wendy has. But 854's didn't work for me. They were SOOOOO comfortable on my feet, but they had me walking with my toes pointed outwards (the opposite of pigeon toed), almost at right angles to how they should be.

That gave me knee problems and hurt my back, after only wearing them for one or two hours. I returned them.

I don't severely overpronate, and I guess I turned my feet like that to compensate for the tipping inwards that motion control shoes do.

Carole C

Re: (oops)

Carole C in NOLA on 3/08/02 at 17:30 (075981)

oops, I guess motion controls tip you outwards! Whatever. Anyway, they messed with my gait.

Carole C

Re: (oops) / motion control

nancy s. on 3/08/02 at 18:55 (075984)

um, i have an image in my brain of what a motion control shoe does, but in fact i don't have a clue how it's constructed and how it controls motion. i don't even know if i have any motion control shoes or not.

for my education, can anyone explain the fundamentals of a motion control shoe?

thanks.
ignorantly yours,
nancy

Re: Motion control shoes don't work for ALL of us, y'know... :)

wendyn on 3/08/02 at 19:25 (075986)

I overpronate a whole bunch. I wear orthotics, and I think that it's way too much correction with the motion control shoes. I purchased them because my PT at the time recommended them.

I cannot stand a flexible shoe - the more rigid the better...so I have trouble understanding why these shoes are such a bad thing for me - but they are!

Re: wonderful weekend headed Wendy's way

wendyn on 3/08/02 at 19:26 (075987)

I hope so Carole, the kids haven't been allowed out for lunch or recess all week....they are going to go crazy soon.

Re: (oops) / motion control

Carole C in NOLA on 3/08/02 at 20:11 (075989)

Usually 'motion control' seems to mean that they control severe pronation, or rolling of the foot towards the medial direction during walking. So motion control shoes are supposed to be good for moderate to severe pronators, depending upon the shoe. They are heavily posted and have roll bars and all sorts of stuff to keep your foot from rolling that way.

If a person is a high arched supinator, usually they would want a neutral cushioned shoe rather than a motion control shoe. Or so I've read.

If a person is in between, maybe a mild pronator, then the shoe for them is called a stability shoe. It might have some medial posting, but it's not going to be as heavily posted as a motion control shoe.

I'm not sure where I read about all this, but maybe it was at http://www.roadrunner.com ? Most of the athletic shoe sites talk about it a little bit. Hope this helps!

Carole C

Re: (oops) / motion control

John h on 3/08/02 at 21:38 (075998)

Nancy: You can really do the Hokey Pokey in motion control shoes.

Re: Hokey Pokey

Carole C in NOLA on 3/08/02 at 22:51 (076006)

I can't do the Hokey Pokey in motion control shoes. I do the Hokey Ploppy as my feet plop down sideways. Plop! Plop!

I wonder if that's how the feet go in that 'Walk Like an Egyptian' dance that was so popular with the junior high bunch a few years back?

Carole C ('Walk Like an Egyptian...')(big Egyptian-like smile)

Re: Motion control shoes don't work for ALL of us, y'know... :)

wendyn on 3/08/02 at 23:44 (076008)

I don't know 'how much' I pronate, but if I stand barefoot I have to conciously 'hold up' my right foot by rolling out onto my outer foot. If I completely relaxed I would roll too far in - so I sort of 'prop' my foot between my big toe pushed down, my baby toe and my heel.

Guess that would explain why I have bunions where I do!

Re: (oops) / motion control

nancy s. on 3/09/02 at 02:21 (076014)

thanks, carole. i'm a mild pronator, so motion control would probably be overkill for me. i appreciate knowing, because i was wondering if i was missing a boat i should be on. i've been on this board for over two years, but it's only recently that the term 'motion control' has been appearing here. must be all you serious and detailed shoe researchers!

john, motion CONTROL sure does sound like one would have to dance pokily.

birks remain the only shoes i can wear for a long time without pain. i go walking in nb 608 cross trainers or in the brooks addiction walk lady, but as soon as i try to stop and stand around in any of them, forget it. apparently i'm going to be a birks addict for life. i'm waiting for my new cooper tatamis to arrive in the mail.

nancy

Re: (oops) / motion control

Carole C in NOLA on 3/09/02 at 08:49 (076019)

That Cooper Tatami looks pretty nice! It is a low arch Tatami according to the Birkenstock Express site. I have never tried the low arch Tatami's, but I been wearing the high arch Tatami's, like the Amsterdam and Fulda, and these have been great for me. Still, I'd like to eventually get away from just Birkenstocks or prescription custom orthotics, and wear other over the counter shoes.

I'm new at this athletic shoe jargon, so I didn't know that terms like 'motion control' were new.
Right now, I am wearing my new New Balance 879 running shoes. They are a neutral cushioning shoe that I exchanged my New Balance 854 motion control shoes for. I spent ten minutes this morning tightening the laces of the 879's as tightly as humanly possible. That did help with the huge toebox, so that my whole foot doesn't slip around so much. But the first thing that happened when I stood up, is that my heel started slipping around in the back. How discouraging. I need firm steady heel support, so this shoe is by no means the perfect shoe for me. However, at least I walk straight in them, so I don't need to worry about other injuries from wearing them. Next year when I am all healed I think I will be able to wear them without that loose slippery heel bothering me so much. Meanwhile, I may try buying VERY THICK socks like a Canadian cross country skiier might wear in the winter. Maybe that will help take up some of the extra room.

If you are a mild overpronator and want a running shoe, the New Balance site suggests one of their 'supportive cushioning' shoes rather than their motion control shoes. They say that a 'supportive cushioning' shoe like the 715 has some medial posting and is for mild to moderate overpronators. A 'cushioning' shoe like the 879 that I have is for people with a neutral gait, not overpronating or oversupinating. A 'stability/motion control' shoe like the 854 is for moderate to severe overpronators, and has the high tech stuff in it like the TPU posting and rollbar.

I think it is great that you walk in your 608 crosstrainers. When you do, if it doesn't hurt during or after, I'll bet you are strengthening your feet. Maybe in time you will be able to stand in them too. I was able to stand in my 854's for 20 minutes without any problem the first day, but I walked funny in them.

Carole C

Re: (oops) / motion control

John h on 3/09/02 at 09:09 (076022)

It may be the success of the Birk sandals is that they do not over control anything. They do provide some arch support but basically your feet fit loosely in them and just do what your feet have naturally done for all your life. PF causes all of to change the way we walk to some extent and probably only aggrevates the condition.

Re: (oops) / motion control

John h on 3/09/02 at 09:16 (076023)

Carole: On the New Balance web site they have a dinky little program that helps you select a shoe. You enter various things you do, etc and it selects a shoe. It selected the New Balance 841WB for me. Of course like any program garbage in garbage out. If you have a movie camera why do you not have one of your friends walk behind you (ha ha) and take a movie of your feet as you walk. It is real clear when you watch someone whether they are pronating or not. Most will. No camera have your friend describe how your feet are striking the ground and what they are doing. Some of the good athletic shoe stores have some sales people who are trained to watch you walk and tell you. Your feet act very different when you run.

Re: (oops) / motion control

John h on 3/09/02 at 10:54 (076029)

Carole: change that to the 841 mens version! I think the 841WB is the ladies version. By the way not all the shoe makers make shoes specifically for women. Some just downsize men's shoes which is not a shoe you should select unless you have a manly foot.

Re: Socks

Julie on 3/09/02 at 12:03 (076036)

Carole, your mentioning thick socks made me think of Thorlos. You probably know them. They come in several weights: I use the Light Hiking ones. They're soft, sutrdy, give lots of cushioning, are also quite supportive. Worth trying if you keep your new NBs and need a shoe-filler.

Re: (oops) / motion control

Carole C in NOLA on 3/09/02 at 14:32 (076043)

Thanks. This program doesn't come up with anything if I am a high arched mild overpronator, but if I tell it I'm neutral or a supinator it comes up with a few shoes. The one on roadrunner is not as easy to please.

I have had a lot of conflicting information and outright misinformation from my doctor and employees of athletic shoestores. I am beginning to think that it's unrealistic to expect anyone outside of heelspurs.com to bother make any effort in looking at my gait and telling me how I walk. To most people this is just aching feet, and they don't care or want to be bothered with helping someone by watching them walk.

Pardon my cynicism but today I'm not sure that most people are willing to help other people by doing anything, period. This is not one of my more optimistic or cheerful days.

Carole C

Re: (oops) / motion control

Carole C in NOLA on 3/09/02 at 14:35 (076044)

That's a crucial point, John. Men's shoes just don't seem snug enough about the heel for me. Some women's shoes aren't either, but men's shoes are worse.

Carole C

Re: (oops) / motion control

nancy s. on 3/09/02 at 15:49 (076048)

thanks, carole. i didn't know the cooper tatamis have a low arch, but it probably doesn't matter because i wear regular-arch bostons etc. and the higher-arch nebraska tatamis. my feet are low-arched and seem to be able to handle any birk arch i've tried (except for a ghastly pair of birk inserts i bought for $55 two years ago -- arch was WAY too high).

it does feel like i'm strengthening my feet when i walk in the nb crosstrainers; i've been taking walks in them for about four months. and my feet hurt not one iota while i'm doing it -- zero pain -- i can wear them an hour or more, as long as i'm walking at a good clip.

after my walk, if i keep the crosstrainers on, they're good for maybe half an hour, at most. then discomfort sets in, and if i don't switch to birks pretty fast, pain arrives in all its glory. it's weird, because the pain i get now when wearing the wrong shoes or when i overdo running around (not literally) doesn't resemble my pf pain, which was really awful for a long time, nor my triple-tendonitis pain. it's different: it hurts all over the bottom of my heels, mostly, as if i have no fat pad at all. a very strong ache that tips over into pain pain pain.

at that point i can't even stand to have the shoes touching the bottoms of my feet. i can't sit in them or anything -- i have to get them off pronto. big relief when i get into birks after that, and the pain i had doesn't last all day; it fades away over about an hour or two.

nancy

Re: Socks

John h on 3/09/02 at 16:08 (076055)

Also Julie it is near impossible to wear them out. I do however wear thick ones.

Re: (oops) / motion control

John h on 3/09/02 at 16:14 (076058)

I came across 5 or 6 studies conducted in countries where people went bare foot much of the time. All reached the same conclusion that these people had a lot less foot problems than people who wear shoes. In fact they had very few foot prombes. Running had nothing to do with it as many of these people ran barefoot a lot. These were studies conducted bu Doctors and other scientific personal. All reached much the same conclusion. Shoes make our foot structures became weaker. Draw your own conclusions.

Re: Thanks, Julie! (nm)

Carole C in NOLA on 3/09/02 at 17:25 (076065)

.

Re: (oops) / motion control

Carole C in NOLA on 3/09/02 at 17:43 (076066)

Ouch! I wonder if the pain that you are feeling in your heels might be something different from PF, as you suggest. Maybe for standing you need a shoe with a different kind of heel, perhaps more support and less cushioning or some such thing. Does your heel slip around in the 608's? Hopefully they are secure enough that it does not. At least the Birks will relieve the discomfort.

Some Birkenstock Tatamis have high arches, and some have low arches; the way that I find out is by looking at the birkenstockexpress.com site. If you look at a particular shoe there, and then look at its 'technical specifications' it will tell you. Some shoes (like your Nebraskas) have removable footbeds so a different arch height can be put in them. The Nebraskas are listed as low arch but a footbed with higher arch could have been shipped with them. Same with the Cooper. I think the Cooper looks so classy! It should be wonderful. :)

Carole C

Re: (oops) / motion control

nancy s. on 3/09/02 at 18:28 (076068)

i'm not sure about that terminology. i think 'low footbed' means not 'low arch' but that the footbed actually sits lower in the sandal. the removable footbed in my nebraskas actually have a little higher arch than my bostons and others, but they do sit low. i like that -- i feel more secure down under the rim a bit.

i just realized that i hit your birk url, but it took me to the german site, and maybe you're getting your terms from another site. i'll have to check it out by actually typing. apparently scott's link sends us to birk central even if the term 'birk' appears in another url.

my heel doesn't slide around at all in the 608s. they seem to fit perfectly. but you've given me food for thought: maybe i just can't take much of any cushioning at all. of course the cork of the birks provides some kind of give, which i'm not really aware of physically, but the general hardness of the footbed definitely gives me the right support. there must be some plastic heel cups or something i could try with my 608s -- something with little or no give. i'll try it.

nancy

Re: Nancy

Julie on 3/10/02 at 01:58 (076096)

Nancy, I'm really sorry to see that the demon foot pain is creeping insidiously up on you again. Do you think it's to do with your spending so much more time on your feet lately - the months of effort to get the store up and running, and now the running of it?

I know that when we're enjoying ourselves, and/or thinking about something else, or other people, we're quite capable of not noticing creeping pain until it shouts at us.

I know you've got your various crafty ways of getting off your feet, but maybe you could think of a few more? Especially since (if I've got it right) standing rather than seems to be your worst trigger.

Would thicker socks help any?

Re: Nancy

nancy s. on 3/10/02 at 09:57 (076105)

thanks, julie. i do think it's partly because i'm on my feet more in the shop. and when i'm doing some serious rearranging of things out there, i tend to stand there while i'm thinking about what i want to do. sometimes i think for a very long time!

if i do that only in birks, it's pretty much ok. the feet get tired and then achy if i really overdo it, even in birks, but they recover in no time.

i'm realizing that the problem is i want to work out there in athletic shoes -- so that i don't kill myself climbing up and down stepstools and so on. i've been trying to wear my new balance or brooks addictions when i'm out there working, and now i'm seeing that it's not going to, well, work. i need to wear the athletic shoes only when i'm out walking, and i need to work only in birks.

i was hoping i could graduate, but i don't think it's going to happen. darn! but i shall be a big girl and accept it.

nancy

Re: Nancy -- p.s. to julie

nancy s. on 3/10/02 at 10:14 (076106)

and yes, julie, you're right: standing is the worst! if i keep walking, i think i could walk for hours. and i'm really grateful that i can do that much, since i couldn't walk much of anywhere for two years.

standing is a completely different story. it's odd, isn't it? i can now stand in grocery lines in my birks, and for other short periods of time. but i still can't stand for a long time -- say, longer than 20 minutes -- without pain. in birks i can do it for that long, but in athletic shoes, forget it. and even standing in birks, after about 20 minutes the pain all over the bottoms of my heels sets in.

it seems weird to be able to walk far and long but still feel crumpled from standing for a short time. i guess it's the steadiness of the weight? but it must mean there's some kind of permanent damage, which has had me sort of upset for the past couple of days.

nancy