Home The Book Dr Articles Products Message Boards Journal Articles Search Our Surveys Surgery ESWT Dr Messages Find Good Drs video

Less money in Vancouver, BC

Posted by Ed Davis, DPM on 4/03/02 at 22:11 (078439)

Bayshore Clinics sound like a good option for those on the east coast. Treatment by Sonorex in Vancouver is $750 Canadian or about $535 US.
A better option for those on the West coast.
Ed

Re: Less money in Vancouver, BC

Dr. Zuckerman on 4/03/02 at 23:20 (078449)

Can any one provide me with literature that shows that low energy for plantar fasciitis is better then high energy or the opposite. From what I have read high energy is much more effective then low energy. So if this true you can't do any comparison with cost. Outcome is more important. !!

Re: Less money in Vancouver, BC

john h on 4/04/02 at 08:34 (078467)

Dr. Z: I have done extensive reading on ESWT and no where have I come across any studies comparing outcomes of low energy vs high energy. I think I do remember some charts on the Bayshore site (low energy) that may have done some comparsions. Bayshore I gather has used both high energy and low energy machines and should have extensive experience in both. They mention on their site that they are not married to any one machine and choose a machine based on economics and efficacy of the machine. I am getting a sense that you can get a good outcome with any of the machines if the circumstanes are right (right patient,right diagnois, proper placement of the energy, proper after care). All of these things are in the hands of the treating Doctor. I would gladly make this offer to any of the manufactures. Treat my feet with your machine and get me to the point I can jog 3 miles without pain (other just minor pain) in both feet and I will pay you $10,000.00. If the equipment can not do this then I owe nothing. The manufacturer would of course have to depend on me being honest in my assessment but I assure you I would have no problem with paying $10K for a cure of this disease.

Re: Less money in Vancouver, BC

john h on 4/04/02 at 08:40 (078469)

Like location in real estate 'outcome' is everything Dr. Z. Mohez had 11 ESWT treatments using all three machines and from his last post is cured. I do not think he knows which machine or even if it was the machine that cured him. He had suffered for a long time. I sure admire Mohez persistence. I am still trying to find his email address as the two he had on our board do not work. He lives in Toronto. Mohez would make a great case study. He was part of the original Ossatron 6 that had their treatments paid for by an executive of Healthtronics. I guess the Ossatron 6 are sort of Heelspurs answer to the first mission into space.

Re: Less money in Vancouver, BC

Carole C in NOLA on 4/04/02 at 09:47 (078474)

John, I sure wish you could jog 3 miles without pain in either foot. Or even better, 5 miles!

Your feet are sure stubborn about this. You are at a point where you must be thinking, 'What next?'

Carole C

Re: Less money in Vancouver, BC

Sunny Jacob on 4/04/02 at 19:02 (078524)

Before we take the challenge of treating you at Bayshore our orthopedic specialist must talk to you via phone as we require proper assessment. Please email your telephone number and email address to (email removed)

Re: Less money in Vancouver, BC

Sunny Jacob on 4/04/02 at 19:09 (078525)

Bayshore and Dr. Robert Gordon, an orthopedic surgeon in Toronto are planning a randomized double blind study on this subject, i.e. comparison of treatment outcome with high energy and low energy ESWT.
At Bayshore we currently use both, Ossatron and Sonocur. We use high energy (Ossatron) primarily for non-union of fracture and stress fractures. However, if patients with tendinopathy request a one time application with anaesthesia we use Ossatron.

Re: Less money in Vancouver, BC

Ed Davis, DPM on 4/04/02 at 20:25 (078531)

Dr. Z:
A number of people have raised this question and I am not sure the numbers of patients are high enough to come up with an answer. The Sonorex people claim excellent results and have treated anumber of professional athletes. Each manufacturer, naturally, argues the virtue of their product. Are you aware of any objective studies being done in this area?
Ed

Re: Less money in Vancouver, BC

Dr. Zuckerman on 4/04/02 at 20:40 (078535)

No

But we can do this right here on this board. All the machine have a know amunt of total energy delivered to f2. So we can first see the results and then compare the outcmes. This can be done.

Re: Less money in Vancouver, BC

john h on 4/05/02 at 10:59 (078580)

Your info is on the way Sunny.

Re: Less money in Vancouver, BC

Dr. Zuckerman on 4/03/02 at 23:20 (078449)

Can any one provide me with literature that shows that low energy for plantar fasciitis is better then high energy or the opposite. From what I have read high energy is much more effective then low energy. So if this true you can't do any comparison with cost. Outcome is more important. !!

Re: Less money in Vancouver, BC

john h on 4/04/02 at 08:34 (078467)

Dr. Z: I have done extensive reading on ESWT and no where have I come across any studies comparing outcomes of low energy vs high energy. I think I do remember some charts on the Bayshore site (low energy) that may have done some comparsions. Bayshore I gather has used both high energy and low energy machines and should have extensive experience in both. They mention on their site that they are not married to any one machine and choose a machine based on economics and efficacy of the machine. I am getting a sense that you can get a good outcome with any of the machines if the circumstanes are right (right patient,right diagnois, proper placement of the energy, proper after care). All of these things are in the hands of the treating Doctor. I would gladly make this offer to any of the manufactures. Treat my feet with your machine and get me to the point I can jog 3 miles without pain (other just minor pain) in both feet and I will pay you $10,000.00. If the equipment can not do this then I owe nothing. The manufacturer would of course have to depend on me being honest in my assessment but I assure you I would have no problem with paying $10K for a cure of this disease.

Re: Less money in Vancouver, BC

john h on 4/04/02 at 08:40 (078469)

Like location in real estate 'outcome' is everything Dr. Z. Mohez had 11 ESWT treatments using all three machines and from his last post is cured. I do not think he knows which machine or even if it was the machine that cured him. He had suffered for a long time. I sure admire Mohez persistence. I am still trying to find his email address as the two he had on our board do not work. He lives in Toronto. Mohez would make a great case study. He was part of the original Ossatron 6 that had their treatments paid for by an executive of Healthtronics. I guess the Ossatron 6 are sort of Heelspurs answer to the first mission into space.

Re: Less money in Vancouver, BC

Carole C in NOLA on 4/04/02 at 09:47 (078474)

John, I sure wish you could jog 3 miles without pain in either foot. Or even better, 5 miles!

Your feet are sure stubborn about this. You are at a point where you must be thinking, 'What next?'

Carole C

Re: Less money in Vancouver, BC

Sunny Jacob on 4/04/02 at 19:02 (078524)

Before we take the challenge of treating you at Bayshore our orthopedic specialist must talk to you via phone as we require proper assessment. Please email your telephone number and email address to (email removed)

Re: Less money in Vancouver, BC

Sunny Jacob on 4/04/02 at 19:09 (078525)

Bayshore and Dr. Robert Gordon, an orthopedic surgeon in Toronto are planning a randomized double blind study on this subject, i.e. comparison of treatment outcome with high energy and low energy ESWT.
At Bayshore we currently use both, Ossatron and Sonocur. We use high energy (Ossatron) primarily for non-union of fracture and stress fractures. However, if patients with tendinopathy request a one time application with anaesthesia we use Ossatron.

Re: Less money in Vancouver, BC

Ed Davis, DPM on 4/04/02 at 20:25 (078531)

Dr. Z:
A number of people have raised this question and I am not sure the numbers of patients are high enough to come up with an answer. The Sonorex people claim excellent results and have treated anumber of professional athletes. Each manufacturer, naturally, argues the virtue of their product. Are you aware of any objective studies being done in this area?
Ed

Re: Less money in Vancouver, BC

Dr. Zuckerman on 4/04/02 at 20:40 (078535)

No

But we can do this right here on this board. All the machine have a know amunt of total energy delivered to f2. So we can first see the results and then compare the outcmes. This can be done.

Re: Less money in Vancouver, BC

john h on 4/05/02 at 10:59 (078580)

Your info is on the way Sunny.