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I had my first PT appt

Posted by Mahatmelissama on 4/18/02 at 10:55 (080127)

They did ultrasound which didn't hurt, in fact, in did make my left foot itch a little (I take that as it may help healing). The main PT guy came in and was ASTOUNDED at how rigid my feet and legs are (I am unable to bend back my toes much and doing the stretch excersize, I was really pathetic). He got on my case to do the stretch excersize perfectly and my feet started acting up (the toes usually spazz out and then CRAMP...when I feel the toes spazz and feet ache, it is time to sit down). The PT guy kept me stretching and was all 'That is all you can stretch, huh?' and I finally said 'My FEET HURT' and I STOPPED...but he wanted to do this one more time. I had to sit down as the lady at the front desk booked all my 5 next appts in advance. I got kind of nervous for one (makes my feet more likely to tense up) and then this PT guy was all 'let's do this stretch this way...bend the knees'.

I almost had an anxiety attack. I guess I am a big baby ... but I wish people would just let me relax! I thought about it on the way home and realised that PT guy is just trying to be helpful...he knows they only have 6 appts with me, that my insurance will probably not pay for more and he wants to make sure i do this stretch right.

I realised how very rigid I am and that did make me pretty depressed and feel hopeless. They should me how far they can stretch back their toes and how I am not flexible. I wonder why this happened...what did I do to cause the tightness in my calves, feet? Was it my weight gain? Genetics? High arches?

Re: I had my first PT appt

Carmen on 4/18/02 at 11:34 (080131)

No one can answer those questions for you but maybe someone that knows your history...no sense wondering HOW you got that way and no sense assigning blame to yourself... that is defeating behavior and what you need now is to move forward and get better!
He needs to lsiten when you tell him 'it hurts' and as far as your flexibility is concerned...this is an issue you need them to address at your next doc appt. in conjunction with your foot problem.
Practice your stretches at home...in the car whereever you can.
Don't get frustrated...you just got started.
have faith.

Re: I had my first PT appt

Carole C in NOLA on 4/18/02 at 11:40 (080133)

Mahatmelissama,

I was very tight too! My C.Ped could hardly believe how tight I was. My PF is accompanied by quite a bit of tendonitis, and that is true for a lot of people. The Achilles tendon and the calf muscle in your leg pull so tightly that you can hardly bend your toes back at all. Also, when these tissues are so tight they pull on the plantar fascia and it is easy to re-injure your feet. These tissues are all connected and you need to stretch to get some slack in that system to prevent further injury.

I do gentle stretching and this helps the leg muscle to relax and stretch out. I start with lots of gentle, gentle stretches before doing any pulling on the toes. I don't do anything standing or bearing weight and I don't blame you for feeling nervous about that!

As your feet heal, you will be able to bend your toes back much more easily and flexibly. You ask what caused the rigidity, and my answer is that I feel very strongly that it is due to your foot and heel pain and will disappear (as mine has, for the most part) as you heal.

Be careful not to stretch to the point that it hurts in your heels very much. Do more gentle stretching first, that doesn't hurt, and you will gradually loosen up to where you can stretch further without heel pain and possibly re-injuring your feet.

Carole C

Re: I had my first PT appt

Sharon W on 4/18/02 at 11:43 (080136)

I had my first one yesterday, so we're BOTH new to PT. But we had very different experiences. All they really did to me was ultrasound, and my feet were sore afterwards. I was surprised they didn't have me do any stretches while I was there, they just sent me home with a list... and unfortunately, what they want me to do are all weight-bearing stretches, the kind you do standing up. I've read the warnings on these message boards about THAT, and I'm going to try to find ways to do them without standing up!

Anyway, I had been feeling disappointed that they didn't have me do any stretches while I was THERE with them, at least this FIRST time, so the physical therapist could correct anything I was doing wrong... but after reading your post, I'm glad now that they DIDN'T!

You DO have the right to say NO, and if they push you too far, stretching too hard can do damage. I'm glad you TOLD them, enough, and refused to do any more.

Hopefully one of the doctors can answer your question about what causes the tightness in calves, legs, and feet...

Have you ever seen a chiropractor?

-- Sharon

Re: That is such good advice

Carole C in NOLA on 4/18/02 at 11:45 (080139)

Carmen, that is such good advice. Especially I think that practicing the stretches frequently, while sitting in the car or sitting at home, can really help. You are so right that faith and patience are required.

Carole C

Re: I had my first PT appt

Ed Davis, DPM on 4/18/02 at 12:26 (080146)

Are you using a night splint? The night splints accomplish a low intensity non-weight bearing stretch of long duration. That is the type of stretch that most PF sufferers need.
Ed

Re: Nightsplint gave me charley horse, I refuse to wear it...

Mahatmelissama on 4/18/02 at 12:57 (080148)

I was given a cast for free and bandages to wind it around my leg and foot, I could not stand it. :(

Re: Thx Carole and Sharon!

Mahatmelissama on 4/18/02 at 13:02 (080151)

I have never seen a chiropractor. Do you go to one?

I can do the stretching but I need to do it lightly. I will just say,
'I understand you wish to show me how to do this right however my feet are in pain right now and I would prefer not to keep standing and doing this. You have my word I am doing these stretches at home' or something to that effect. He probably never has had PF and doesn't understand that it aggravates it to stand doing the stretching excersizes over and over. I will sweetly say that too if need be. I know he means well but it seemed as though he was clueless that it can cause PAIN in people (perhaps his other patients have PF to a less degree than me).

The other PT guy seems to know more...he has PF and a heelspur himself however his is flat foot. He told me high arches PF is harder to get relief from than flat foot PF.

It is hard for people to understand things sometimes unless they experience them themselves, or something similar in pain intensity.

Re: MAHATMELISSAMA

Sharon W on 4/18/02 at 14:23 (080157)

You are very understanding and patient. That plan sounds like a very good way of dealing with the PT & stretching problem. Personally, I'm afraid I would probably get angry and frustrated and either say nothing at all (because I would be afraid of saying something wrong) or else growl, 'STOP THAT!!'

No, I've never been to a chiropractor but I've had them recommended to me for tight muscles, charley horses, etc.

-- Sharon

Re: MAHATMELISSAMA

Mahatmelissama on 4/18/02 at 14:37 (080158)

Thanks Sharon. Right now, I am sore and feet almost cramped just going downstairs and standing to order from the deli. I did the stretches already 3 times today (he said to do them 5 times a day) and my PF is worse.

I will just have to cut back on intensity. *Sigh*.

What I really felt like doing was kicking his skinny ___ out the door and screaming 'You are clueless!' but it was God's grace that helped me to try to see how he was trying to be helpful. ;)

Re: Nightsplint gave me charley horse, I refuse to wear it...

Rich on 4/18/02 at 15:45 (080171)

I have trouble wearing the nightsplint at night! Before my doc put me in this cam walker, I would wear the splint anytime I had work to do while sitting or while watching tv. Could usually manage an hour or too, but not much longer. My toes would develop a numbness. Even if you don't plant your heel way down in the bottom, you are still getting the benefit of the stretch. I don't care for the sensation...if it's nice and snug, it doesn't feel like it will fall off and the toes go numb. If I wear it slightly loose, it twists and catches on the bed sheets....!##@%!!

As for your stretches...if it is hurting your heels, ease up a bit. Just sit with your legs stretched and gently try to raise your toes back to you, stopping before that pain sensation. Icing will help relieve some of the pain afterwards. Look in the heel pain book for a picture of a wedge...my pt gave me a diagram for this with the 'correct' measurements and I stand with my toes on the wedge and heels on the floor (in tennis shoes) and straighten out my legs just till I feel the pull on the achilles tendons.

I have very high arches and tight achilles tendons. Don't know why, just do...LOL Until my pod said so, I never thought I had high arches at all! Go figure!

For your next pt visit, see if you can get a different therapist? I went through three before I found one that suited me and that I felt comfortable with.

I'll be praying for you!!

Rich

Re: I like the therapist who treated me but his boss I felt like kicking his ***

Mahatmelissama on 4/18/02 at 16:22 (080180)

sorry for the Unchristian comment there...but I am right now near tears since I followed his boss's regiment.

The therapist is the nicest guy...promised not to hurt me...answered all questions...even told me he went with his wife to WW until she lost all her weight (I am on WW trying to lose weight to help my PF). Then his boss came in and seemed a little cocky albeit a nice guy at heart I think. God was merciful and boss therapist said that the nice herapist will be treating me next week (THANK YOU LORD).

Boss therapist means well but is clueless about how PF feels when you bear too much weight on it..danganbit...

having fantasy of being able to drop kick boss thearpist right now..

my ankle tendon is THROBBING right now at work WHILE I SIT! I never get this...it is from all the stetching (runners stretch I think it is called) I did.

Argghghhhh!!! Oh well...thankfully it is temporary. I will keep on soaking it and taking tylenol and advil.

Re: Thx Carole and Sharon!

Carole C in NOLA on 4/18/02 at 16:53 (080186)

I don't go to a chiropractor.

Yes, I think you need to be assertive about not doing things that will hurt your heels or feet. Having a positive attitude is good, but it's better when it means you are doing gentle things more frequently, rather than doing things that are too much strain on your PF.

Maybe you can ask for the other PT guy, since he seems to have a teeny bit more of a clue.

Even if you can't do the things they want you to do, they might be helpful later when your feet have heeled more. At first, my C.Ped wanted me to sit on a bed with my legs stretched out in front of me, and grab my toes and pull. I said, 'WHAT?????? That will injure me!' because I had read here and knew that things that hurt too much weren't good. (And, because even gently pushing my toes back with my fingers hurt TREMENDOUSLY back then). My C.Ped (who is wonderful) said 'Oh!!' and then thought a minute. Then, she said, sort of offhand, 'Well, if you want to you could just point your toes towards your nose, inward and upward, and hold for 30 seconds, but really pulling on your toes would be so much more helpful'.

This was the first week in December, and I didn't pull on my toes until mid-March after my usual pain level was down to about 1-2 or so. I did it on a day when I had been overdoing, and began with three sets of toe-pointing until I really was feeling no pain in my heels at all from any toe-pointing. After all this toe-pointing, I pulled on my toes and it did help, THEN. I believe it would have messed me up back in December, because just by toe-pointing I was getting all the stretching possible for me without getting that tearing feeling and re-injuring myself.

Hope this helps.

Carole C

Re: MAHATMELISSAMA

Carole C in NOLA on 4/18/02 at 16:56 (080187)

If your PF is worse from the stretches, cut back NOW!!!!!! If you are injuring yourself further it may take a couple of weeks or more before you get back to where you were.

Just my advice, opinion, etc. I wish you had a better PT !! can you change to another PT place?

Carole C

Re: ICE ICE ICE ICE!!!!!!!!!!!

Carole C in NOLA on 4/18/02 at 17:02 (080189)

Mahatmelissama,

Reading these other posts in this thread I'm getting pretty concerned about how your feet are handling this. PLEASE don't forget to ice as much as you can tonight and tomorrow too. With any luck maybe this will help.

Hang in there and maybe there's another PT clinic with a more clueful boss that you could go to and not get re-injured. Rich's PT sounds nice. There must be a lot of variation from clinic to clinic.

Carole C

Re: MAHATMELISSAMA

Sharon W on 4/18/02 at 17:23 (080191)

I agree with Carole's recent posts: sounds like you need to ICE like crazy and limit your stretches, and it seems to me if it's making you cramp up like that that amount of stretching is probably way TOO MUCH FOR YOU at this stage in your treatment.

-- Sharon

Re: I wish I could bring you with me!

Mahatmelissama on 4/18/02 at 18:03 (080199)

I will speak up for myself and not the boss one have me do the runners stretch over and over in the office till he feels confident I can do it. I will try first to tell nice PT 'gee, I felt WORSE since I did all those stetches and had to cut back!' and hopefully he will secretly confer with boss PT and say 'she said..' and I won't have to deal with it.

Nice PT gave me easy ones to do...the towel one and also to find a hot tub (my mom's got one) and do some stetching in there.

I am gonna hafta ice since I am driving 25 miles up tonight. If this gets worse, I'm not gonna go.

That would really make me feel like drop kicking boss PT. Grrr.

Re: PS...I did STOP the stetching...waiting for inflammation to desist

Mahatmelissama on 4/18/02 at 18:10 (080201)

;)

Re: PS...I did STOP the stetching...waiting for inflammation to desist

Carole C in NOLA on 4/18/02 at 19:04 (080207)

Good! Whew! I was pretty concerned.

I hope you are able to ice for at least an hour or more on and off tonight, though. Obviously I don't mean for an hour straight or you would freeze your feet. Just keep repeating it as comfort permits. If you take anti-inflammatories, don't forget them. It can't hurt to put your feet up as much as you can.

Sorry, I don't mean to be pushy or overly motherly. Your feet sound a LOT like mine, though, and when I read your posts, oh man! I could almost feel the pain. LOL

Carole C

Re: Melissa, you were supposed to get the nice cute one!

Valerie S on 4/18/02 at 20:43 (080223)

Hi Melissa.

I am trying to send you an email, but my yahoo mailbox is being a pooper for some reason tonight. I thought I'd send you a note here instead.

I'm sorry to hear of your frustration with your first PT visit. At mine, my wonderful PT (and I'm not being sarcastic, he was awesome!!) stretched me really hard too, telling me how tight my calves were. The next day at work, my legs were soooo sore... but that pain was temporary. I hope the same holds true for you.

I hope everything goes better at your next appointment. I can understand being scared of going back after that... and don't forget what P.T. really stands for : Pain and Torture :) ... that's what my PT told me... hee hee.

Are you sure your insurance won't cover more than 6 visits? My RX started out as 2 or 3 weeks, and my doctor extended it upon feedback from my PT. I know it depends on your policy, but if they ask the doc and he extends it, you may be covered for longer than the 6 visits... check it out and see.

As with everything regarding PF, don't overdo it, especially stretching... try not to get discouraged by only one PT visit. Maybe the boss was just having a bad day and you'll see a new man next time. It's good to go in and be ready to stand up for yourself... I hope things start looking up for you real soon!

Your friend, Val.

Re: I like the therapist who treated me but his boss I felt like kicking his ***

wendyn on 4/18/02 at 21:17 (080228)

Mahamellisima - don't apologize for venting here...this is the best place!!!

Are you taking tylenol and advil - TOGETHER?

I don't know if that is a good idea.

Re: Gradual physio is best and chiros seem to be good too (dunno why)

sandy h on 4/18/02 at 23:07 (080233)

I agree that the key is gradual stretches in terms of weight and extent. I hate the way physios just stick you on a silly machine and leave you there and really believe that stretching and motion is key but can make things worse if you overdo it. I have visited a chiro four times and after being v. v. skeptical, and don't ask me to explain why, I really think it does help. I keep thinking 'this can't be helping' as he knocks away with this tiny little hammer on my feet and then does all the chiro stuff on my back but I feel better after every visit.

Re: I like the therapist who treated me but his boss I felt like kicking his ***

paula on 4/19/02 at 08:47 (080267)

i went to a number of therapists before i found one that does listen and has not pulled or harmed me so far. i called around all over the city to find this one and waited 8 months before she had an opening. she is the head pt at a major university hospital. maybe that is a direction for folks to consider. most of my other therapists were dumb, mean, uncaring, unconscious, well i could go on i guess. the thing is, i feel, there's a medical profession in general and then there's an occasional gem amidst the gravel. after a while the sifting process is grueling. i'm looking for a custom nightsplint now and the depressing dispiriting hunt for a competent, decent honest professional begins anew. with a lot less money and hope and spirit left in me. sigh. we must carry on . what is our choice?

Re: WOW, what great msgs are here! :)

Mahatmelissama on 4/19/02 at 10:10 (080283)

I just called the boss PT and left him a msg about what happened.

I ended up icing last night and taking tylenol AND aleve.
I also rubbed lots of the New Zealand pain reliever stuff into
my feet (see my thread about that if you wonder what that is).
The icing really helped!

At the end of my visit, I was DYING though. I went home and had trouble sleeping. I kept having visions of the tissue ripping and hot searing pain...but I finally conked out.

It is better today, but I am not stetching today. My mom says I can come over tomorrow night and soak in her hot tub...which I am going to do.

I take baths now everyday and that helps a little bit too.
I also rub that ointment into my feet too and take aleve.
(I think aleve works the best but I am afraid to take more than
2 of them a day so I take other stuff if I am in agony).

Thanks for everyone's comments. It is nice to know I am not alone
and people understand the agony.

Re: Gradual physio is best and chiros seem to be good too (dunno why)

Carole C in NOLA on 4/19/02 at 15:29 (080339)

I used to go to a chiropractor back in the mid 1980's, because he was helping my ex-husband quite a bit for his back problems. He was a terrific chiropractor and worked miracles on my ex. I enjoyed going to him, but really I don't think I had a need for a chiropractor at the time. The main benefit for me was first that it felt good, and second that my posture was WAY better without even trying. When he retired, I stopped seeing one.

I can't explain why sometimes they can do wonders, but you are right, sometimes they really can. I know where my skepticism comes from, because my father was a very traditional surgeon and had a negative opinion of them. However, I'm a great believer in doing whatever works.

Carole C

Re: Gradual physio is best and chiros seem to be good too (dunno why)

Sharon W on 4/19/02 at 15:48 (080340)

Carole,

One of my best friends is a doctor's daughter. She often says that, as she was growing up, there was only ONE cuss word that was absolutely forbidden in their home: CHIROPRACTOR!

-- Sharon

Re: WOW, what great msgs are here! :)

Rich on 4/19/02 at 16:06 (080344)

Just wanted to share that my pod recommended I take two aleve in the morning and two at night. He said the dosage would be okay. This was when I questioned about stopping the vioxx.

;)
Rich

Re: Gradual physio is best and chiros seem to be good too (dunno why)

Carole C in NOLA on 4/19/02 at 16:11 (080346)

Same with my father. He considered them to be quacks, and I believed that also until I saw how much my ex improved by going to one.

When my father was still alive I was afraid to tell him that I was going to a chiropractor, even though I was a grown woman in my late 30's at the time. He would have hit the ceiling.

Carole C

Re: CHIROPRACTOR

Sharon W on 4/19/02 at 16:17 (080349)

My friend was too!! Her back went out on her, but she never told her dad who was really 'treating' it...

-- Sharon

Re: Nightsplint gave me charley horse, I refuse to wear it...

Ed Davis, DPM on 4/19/02 at 17:51 (080357)

Unsure what you mean-- a nightsplint is not the same as a cast. A nightsplint can only cause a charley horse if it is worn improperly. The individual who fitted what I assume is a nightsplint (unclear from your description) needs to provide instructions for proper use.
Ed

Re: Talked to the Boss PT an hour ago...

Mahatmelissama on 4/19/02 at 18:31 (080363)

He said that that was 'not normail' and to 'not do any stretches till Sunday'. He said when I do, only do them for a few seconds and 'take it easier and slower'. I did feel 'abnormal' but oh well (like a freak...like I am the only one he ever encountered with this reaction).

I asked 'why do I have such tightness in my feet and legs?' and he said that 'those muscles have not been stretched for awhile...they are 'waking up'...we need to wake them up'

At least now I know he takes me seriously if I complain. I guess I am a more sorry case then his other patients since I can not do as much stretching.

Re: Talked to the Boss PT an hour ago...

Sharon W on 4/19/02 at 18:36 (080365)

I often think that some health professionals say things like that as CYA. (They didn't really make a MISTAKE -- nobody could have predicted such an unusual reaction from the patient!)

Anyway, don't let it get to you. You are NOT the only person who goes to PT that is too stiff at first to do most of those stretches!!

-- Sharon

Re: Talked to the Boss PT an hour ago...

Carole C in NOLA on 4/19/02 at 21:06 (080400)

Looking at it from another point of view, if he hasn't encountered any patients who can't do Olympic Gold Medal stretching before, maybe he just isn't as experienced as he'd like his clients to believe.

I don't know about the world as a whole. But, around here at heelspurs.com, people have tightness and pain and can't do weight bearing stretches without injuring themselves. The same thing would have happened to me if I had gone to that PT in January. Think of your favorite posters on this message board. List them in your mind. The same thing would have happened to them, most likely, at at least some point while they've had heel pain. You are not a freak or abnormal. You are one of us PF sufferers and pretty courageous and we understand and care.

Good for you for standing up for yourself and convincing the Boss PT man to back off. I'm glad you iced.

Carole C

Re: Talked to the Boss PT an hour ago...

Mahatmelissama on 4/20/02 at 16:17 (080487)

thanks...that is so sweet.

I think boss PT is a little more educated now. I will keep the conversation going since my healing is number one priority.

Re: I had my first PT appt

Carmen on 4/18/02 at 11:34 (080131)

No one can answer those questions for you but maybe someone that knows your history...no sense wondering HOW you got that way and no sense assigning blame to yourself... that is defeating behavior and what you need now is to move forward and get better!
He needs to lsiten when you tell him 'it hurts' and as far as your flexibility is concerned...this is an issue you need them to address at your next doc appt. in conjunction with your foot problem.
Practice your stretches at home...in the car whereever you can.
Don't get frustrated...you just got started.
have faith.

Re: I had my first PT appt

Carole C in NOLA on 4/18/02 at 11:40 (080133)

Mahatmelissama,

I was very tight too! My C.Ped could hardly believe how tight I was. My PF is accompanied by quite a bit of tendonitis, and that is true for a lot of people. The Achilles tendon and the calf muscle in your leg pull so tightly that you can hardly bend your toes back at all. Also, when these tissues are so tight they pull on the plantar fascia and it is easy to re-injure your feet. These tissues are all connected and you need to stretch to get some slack in that system to prevent further injury.

I do gentle stretching and this helps the leg muscle to relax and stretch out. I start with lots of gentle, gentle stretches before doing any pulling on the toes. I don't do anything standing or bearing weight and I don't blame you for feeling nervous about that!

As your feet heal, you will be able to bend your toes back much more easily and flexibly. You ask what caused the rigidity, and my answer is that I feel very strongly that it is due to your foot and heel pain and will disappear (as mine has, for the most part) as you heal.

Be careful not to stretch to the point that it hurts in your heels very much. Do more gentle stretching first, that doesn't hurt, and you will gradually loosen up to where you can stretch further without heel pain and possibly re-injuring your feet.

Carole C

Re: I had my first PT appt

Sharon W on 4/18/02 at 11:43 (080136)

I had my first one yesterday, so we're BOTH new to PT. But we had very different experiences. All they really did to me was ultrasound, and my feet were sore afterwards. I was surprised they didn't have me do any stretches while I was there, they just sent me home with a list... and unfortunately, what they want me to do are all weight-bearing stretches, the kind you do standing up. I've read the warnings on these message boards about THAT, and I'm going to try to find ways to do them without standing up!

Anyway, I had been feeling disappointed that they didn't have me do any stretches while I was THERE with them, at least this FIRST time, so the physical therapist could correct anything I was doing wrong... but after reading your post, I'm glad now that they DIDN'T!

You DO have the right to say NO, and if they push you too far, stretching too hard can do damage. I'm glad you TOLD them, enough, and refused to do any more.

Hopefully one of the doctors can answer your question about what causes the tightness in calves, legs, and feet...

Have you ever seen a chiropractor?

-- Sharon

Re: That is such good advice

Carole C in NOLA on 4/18/02 at 11:45 (080139)

Carmen, that is such good advice. Especially I think that practicing the stretches frequently, while sitting in the car or sitting at home, can really help. You are so right that faith and patience are required.

Carole C

Re: I had my first PT appt

Ed Davis, DPM on 4/18/02 at 12:26 (080146)

Are you using a night splint? The night splints accomplish a low intensity non-weight bearing stretch of long duration. That is the type of stretch that most PF sufferers need.
Ed

Re: Nightsplint gave me charley horse, I refuse to wear it...

Mahatmelissama on 4/18/02 at 12:57 (080148)

I was given a cast for free and bandages to wind it around my leg and foot, I could not stand it. :(

Re: Thx Carole and Sharon!

Mahatmelissama on 4/18/02 at 13:02 (080151)

I have never seen a chiropractor. Do you go to one?

I can do the stretching but I need to do it lightly. I will just say,
'I understand you wish to show me how to do this right however my feet are in pain right now and I would prefer not to keep standing and doing this. You have my word I am doing these stretches at home' or something to that effect. He probably never has had PF and doesn't understand that it aggravates it to stand doing the stretching excersizes over and over. I will sweetly say that too if need be. I know he means well but it seemed as though he was clueless that it can cause PAIN in people (perhaps his other patients have PF to a less degree than me).

The other PT guy seems to know more...he has PF and a heelspur himself however his is flat foot. He told me high arches PF is harder to get relief from than flat foot PF.

It is hard for people to understand things sometimes unless they experience them themselves, or something similar in pain intensity.

Re: MAHATMELISSAMA

Sharon W on 4/18/02 at 14:23 (080157)

You are very understanding and patient. That plan sounds like a very good way of dealing with the PT & stretching problem. Personally, I'm afraid I would probably get angry and frustrated and either say nothing at all (because I would be afraid of saying something wrong) or else growl, 'STOP THAT!!'

No, I've never been to a chiropractor but I've had them recommended to me for tight muscles, charley horses, etc.

-- Sharon

Re: MAHATMELISSAMA

Mahatmelissama on 4/18/02 at 14:37 (080158)

Thanks Sharon. Right now, I am sore and feet almost cramped just going downstairs and standing to order from the deli. I did the stretches already 3 times today (he said to do them 5 times a day) and my PF is worse.

I will just have to cut back on intensity. *Sigh*.

What I really felt like doing was kicking his skinny ___ out the door and screaming 'You are clueless!' but it was God's grace that helped me to try to see how he was trying to be helpful. ;)

Re: Nightsplint gave me charley horse, I refuse to wear it...

Rich on 4/18/02 at 15:45 (080171)

I have trouble wearing the nightsplint at night! Before my doc put me in this cam walker, I would wear the splint anytime I had work to do while sitting or while watching tv. Could usually manage an hour or too, but not much longer. My toes would develop a numbness. Even if you don't plant your heel way down in the bottom, you are still getting the benefit of the stretch. I don't care for the sensation...if it's nice and snug, it doesn't feel like it will fall off and the toes go numb. If I wear it slightly loose, it twists and catches on the bed sheets....!##@%!!

As for your stretches...if it is hurting your heels, ease up a bit. Just sit with your legs stretched and gently try to raise your toes back to you, stopping before that pain sensation. Icing will help relieve some of the pain afterwards. Look in the heel pain book for a picture of a wedge...my pt gave me a diagram for this with the 'correct' measurements and I stand with my toes on the wedge and heels on the floor (in tennis shoes) and straighten out my legs just till I feel the pull on the achilles tendons.

I have very high arches and tight achilles tendons. Don't know why, just do...LOL Until my pod said so, I never thought I had high arches at all! Go figure!

For your next pt visit, see if you can get a different therapist? I went through three before I found one that suited me and that I felt comfortable with.

I'll be praying for you!!

Rich

Re: I like the therapist who treated me but his boss I felt like kicking his ***

Mahatmelissama on 4/18/02 at 16:22 (080180)

sorry for the Unchristian comment there...but I am right now near tears since I followed his boss's regiment.

The therapist is the nicest guy...promised not to hurt me...answered all questions...even told me he went with his wife to WW until she lost all her weight (I am on WW trying to lose weight to help my PF). Then his boss came in and seemed a little cocky albeit a nice guy at heart I think. God was merciful and boss therapist said that the nice herapist will be treating me next week (THANK YOU LORD).

Boss therapist means well but is clueless about how PF feels when you bear too much weight on it..danganbit...

having fantasy of being able to drop kick boss thearpist right now..

my ankle tendon is THROBBING right now at work WHILE I SIT! I never get this...it is from all the stetching (runners stretch I think it is called) I did.

Argghghhhh!!! Oh well...thankfully it is temporary. I will keep on soaking it and taking tylenol and advil.

Re: Thx Carole and Sharon!

Carole C in NOLA on 4/18/02 at 16:53 (080186)

I don't go to a chiropractor.

Yes, I think you need to be assertive about not doing things that will hurt your heels or feet. Having a positive attitude is good, but it's better when it means you are doing gentle things more frequently, rather than doing things that are too much strain on your PF.

Maybe you can ask for the other PT guy, since he seems to have a teeny bit more of a clue.

Even if you can't do the things they want you to do, they might be helpful later when your feet have heeled more. At first, my C.Ped wanted me to sit on a bed with my legs stretched out in front of me, and grab my toes and pull. I said, 'WHAT?????? That will injure me!' because I had read here and knew that things that hurt too much weren't good. (And, because even gently pushing my toes back with my fingers hurt TREMENDOUSLY back then). My C.Ped (who is wonderful) said 'Oh!!' and then thought a minute. Then, she said, sort of offhand, 'Well, if you want to you could just point your toes towards your nose, inward and upward, and hold for 30 seconds, but really pulling on your toes would be so much more helpful'.

This was the first week in December, and I didn't pull on my toes until mid-March after my usual pain level was down to about 1-2 or so. I did it on a day when I had been overdoing, and began with three sets of toe-pointing until I really was feeling no pain in my heels at all from any toe-pointing. After all this toe-pointing, I pulled on my toes and it did help, THEN. I believe it would have messed me up back in December, because just by toe-pointing I was getting all the stretching possible for me without getting that tearing feeling and re-injuring myself.

Hope this helps.

Carole C

Re: MAHATMELISSAMA

Carole C in NOLA on 4/18/02 at 16:56 (080187)

If your PF is worse from the stretches, cut back NOW!!!!!! If you are injuring yourself further it may take a couple of weeks or more before you get back to where you were.

Just my advice, opinion, etc. I wish you had a better PT !! can you change to another PT place?

Carole C

Re: ICE ICE ICE ICE!!!!!!!!!!!

Carole C in NOLA on 4/18/02 at 17:02 (080189)

Mahatmelissama,

Reading these other posts in this thread I'm getting pretty concerned about how your feet are handling this. PLEASE don't forget to ice as much as you can tonight and tomorrow too. With any luck maybe this will help.

Hang in there and maybe there's another PT clinic with a more clueful boss that you could go to and not get re-injured. Rich's PT sounds nice. There must be a lot of variation from clinic to clinic.

Carole C

Re: MAHATMELISSAMA

Sharon W on 4/18/02 at 17:23 (080191)

I agree with Carole's recent posts: sounds like you need to ICE like crazy and limit your stretches, and it seems to me if it's making you cramp up like that that amount of stretching is probably way TOO MUCH FOR YOU at this stage in your treatment.

-- Sharon

Re: I wish I could bring you with me!

Mahatmelissama on 4/18/02 at 18:03 (080199)

I will speak up for myself and not the boss one have me do the runners stretch over and over in the office till he feels confident I can do it. I will try first to tell nice PT 'gee, I felt WORSE since I did all those stetches and had to cut back!' and hopefully he will secretly confer with boss PT and say 'she said..' and I won't have to deal with it.

Nice PT gave me easy ones to do...the towel one and also to find a hot tub (my mom's got one) and do some stetching in there.

I am gonna hafta ice since I am driving 25 miles up tonight. If this gets worse, I'm not gonna go.

That would really make me feel like drop kicking boss PT. Grrr.

Re: PS...I did STOP the stetching...waiting for inflammation to desist

Mahatmelissama on 4/18/02 at 18:10 (080201)

;)

Re: PS...I did STOP the stetching...waiting for inflammation to desist

Carole C in NOLA on 4/18/02 at 19:04 (080207)

Good! Whew! I was pretty concerned.

I hope you are able to ice for at least an hour or more on and off tonight, though. Obviously I don't mean for an hour straight or you would freeze your feet. Just keep repeating it as comfort permits. If you take anti-inflammatories, don't forget them. It can't hurt to put your feet up as much as you can.

Sorry, I don't mean to be pushy or overly motherly. Your feet sound a LOT like mine, though, and when I read your posts, oh man! I could almost feel the pain. LOL

Carole C

Re: Melissa, you were supposed to get the nice cute one!

Valerie S on 4/18/02 at 20:43 (080223)

Hi Melissa.

I am trying to send you an email, but my yahoo mailbox is being a pooper for some reason tonight. I thought I'd send you a note here instead.

I'm sorry to hear of your frustration with your first PT visit. At mine, my wonderful PT (and I'm not being sarcastic, he was awesome!!) stretched me really hard too, telling me how tight my calves were. The next day at work, my legs were soooo sore... but that pain was temporary. I hope the same holds true for you.

I hope everything goes better at your next appointment. I can understand being scared of going back after that... and don't forget what P.T. really stands for : Pain and Torture :) ... that's what my PT told me... hee hee.

Are you sure your insurance won't cover more than 6 visits? My RX started out as 2 or 3 weeks, and my doctor extended it upon feedback from my PT. I know it depends on your policy, but if they ask the doc and he extends it, you may be covered for longer than the 6 visits... check it out and see.

As with everything regarding PF, don't overdo it, especially stretching... try not to get discouraged by only one PT visit. Maybe the boss was just having a bad day and you'll see a new man next time. It's good to go in and be ready to stand up for yourself... I hope things start looking up for you real soon!

Your friend, Val.

Re: I like the therapist who treated me but his boss I felt like kicking his ***

wendyn on 4/18/02 at 21:17 (080228)

Mahamellisima - don't apologize for venting here...this is the best place!!!

Are you taking tylenol and advil - TOGETHER?

I don't know if that is a good idea.

Re: Gradual physio is best and chiros seem to be good too (dunno why)

sandy h on 4/18/02 at 23:07 (080233)

I agree that the key is gradual stretches in terms of weight and extent. I hate the way physios just stick you on a silly machine and leave you there and really believe that stretching and motion is key but can make things worse if you overdo it. I have visited a chiro four times and after being v. v. skeptical, and don't ask me to explain why, I really think it does help. I keep thinking 'this can't be helping' as he knocks away with this tiny little hammer on my feet and then does all the chiro stuff on my back but I feel better after every visit.

Re: I like the therapist who treated me but his boss I felt like kicking his ***

paula on 4/19/02 at 08:47 (080267)

i went to a number of therapists before i found one that does listen and has not pulled or harmed me so far. i called around all over the city to find this one and waited 8 months before she had an opening. she is the head pt at a major university hospital. maybe that is a direction for folks to consider. most of my other therapists were dumb, mean, uncaring, unconscious, well i could go on i guess. the thing is, i feel, there's a medical profession in general and then there's an occasional gem amidst the gravel. after a while the sifting process is grueling. i'm looking for a custom nightsplint now and the depressing dispiriting hunt for a competent, decent honest professional begins anew. with a lot less money and hope and spirit left in me. sigh. we must carry on . what is our choice?

Re: WOW, what great msgs are here! :)

Mahatmelissama on 4/19/02 at 10:10 (080283)

I just called the boss PT and left him a msg about what happened.

I ended up icing last night and taking tylenol AND aleve.
I also rubbed lots of the New Zealand pain reliever stuff into
my feet (see my thread about that if you wonder what that is).
The icing really helped!

At the end of my visit, I was DYING though. I went home and had trouble sleeping. I kept having visions of the tissue ripping and hot searing pain...but I finally conked out.

It is better today, but I am not stetching today. My mom says I can come over tomorrow night and soak in her hot tub...which I am going to do.

I take baths now everyday and that helps a little bit too.
I also rub that ointment into my feet too and take aleve.
(I think aleve works the best but I am afraid to take more than
2 of them a day so I take other stuff if I am in agony).

Thanks for everyone's comments. It is nice to know I am not alone
and people understand the agony.

Re: Gradual physio is best and chiros seem to be good too (dunno why)

Carole C in NOLA on 4/19/02 at 15:29 (080339)

I used to go to a chiropractor back in the mid 1980's, because he was helping my ex-husband quite a bit for his back problems. He was a terrific chiropractor and worked miracles on my ex. I enjoyed going to him, but really I don't think I had a need for a chiropractor at the time. The main benefit for me was first that it felt good, and second that my posture was WAY better without even trying. When he retired, I stopped seeing one.

I can't explain why sometimes they can do wonders, but you are right, sometimes they really can. I know where my skepticism comes from, because my father was a very traditional surgeon and had a negative opinion of them. However, I'm a great believer in doing whatever works.

Carole C

Re: Gradual physio is best and chiros seem to be good too (dunno why)

Sharon W on 4/19/02 at 15:48 (080340)

Carole,

One of my best friends is a doctor's daughter. She often says that, as she was growing up, there was only ONE cuss word that was absolutely forbidden in their home: CHIROPRACTOR!

-- Sharon

Re: WOW, what great msgs are here! :)

Rich on 4/19/02 at 16:06 (080344)

Just wanted to share that my pod recommended I take two aleve in the morning and two at night. He said the dosage would be okay. This was when I questioned about stopping the vioxx.

;)
Rich

Re: Gradual physio is best and chiros seem to be good too (dunno why)

Carole C in NOLA on 4/19/02 at 16:11 (080346)

Same with my father. He considered them to be quacks, and I believed that also until I saw how much my ex improved by going to one.

When my father was still alive I was afraid to tell him that I was going to a chiropractor, even though I was a grown woman in my late 30's at the time. He would have hit the ceiling.

Carole C

Re: CHIROPRACTOR

Sharon W on 4/19/02 at 16:17 (080349)

My friend was too!! Her back went out on her, but she never told her dad who was really 'treating' it...

-- Sharon

Re: Nightsplint gave me charley horse, I refuse to wear it...

Ed Davis, DPM on 4/19/02 at 17:51 (080357)

Unsure what you mean-- a nightsplint is not the same as a cast. A nightsplint can only cause a charley horse if it is worn improperly. The individual who fitted what I assume is a nightsplint (unclear from your description) needs to provide instructions for proper use.
Ed

Re: Talked to the Boss PT an hour ago...

Mahatmelissama on 4/19/02 at 18:31 (080363)

He said that that was 'not normail' and to 'not do any stretches till Sunday'. He said when I do, only do them for a few seconds and 'take it easier and slower'. I did feel 'abnormal' but oh well (like a freak...like I am the only one he ever encountered with this reaction).

I asked 'why do I have such tightness in my feet and legs?' and he said that 'those muscles have not been stretched for awhile...they are 'waking up'...we need to wake them up'

At least now I know he takes me seriously if I complain. I guess I am a more sorry case then his other patients since I can not do as much stretching.

Re: Talked to the Boss PT an hour ago...

Sharon W on 4/19/02 at 18:36 (080365)

I often think that some health professionals say things like that as CYA. (They didn't really make a MISTAKE -- nobody could have predicted such an unusual reaction from the patient!)

Anyway, don't let it get to you. You are NOT the only person who goes to PT that is too stiff at first to do most of those stretches!!

-- Sharon

Re: Talked to the Boss PT an hour ago...

Carole C in NOLA on 4/19/02 at 21:06 (080400)

Looking at it from another point of view, if he hasn't encountered any patients who can't do Olympic Gold Medal stretching before, maybe he just isn't as experienced as he'd like his clients to believe.

I don't know about the world as a whole. But, around here at heelspurs.com, people have tightness and pain and can't do weight bearing stretches without injuring themselves. The same thing would have happened to me if I had gone to that PT in January. Think of your favorite posters on this message board. List them in your mind. The same thing would have happened to them, most likely, at at least some point while they've had heel pain. You are not a freak or abnormal. You are one of us PF sufferers and pretty courageous and we understand and care.

Good for you for standing up for yourself and convincing the Boss PT man to back off. I'm glad you iced.

Carole C

Re: Talked to the Boss PT an hour ago...

Mahatmelissama on 4/20/02 at 16:17 (080487)

thanks...that is so sweet.

I think boss PT is a little more educated now. I will keep the conversation going since my healing is number one priority.