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Sharon W. Barbara Donna and any one else...ART session

Posted by Carmen on 5/08/02 at 18:32 (083119)

Was great! REAL briefly (I have posted my history so many times I am tired of myself! ;o))
I suffer from extremely tight hamstrings, glute pain, low back aches, tight calves and of course our friend PF. TOTAL of almost 3 years with the hamstring glute pain and tightness....
NOTHING has worked...even the Piriformus release surgery didn't do anything.
Long story short....First session of ART today...she said 'No wonder you hurt....no wonder!!'
When she started on my calves she was just kind of sighing and chuckling in disbelief at how tight my calves are....my hamstrings? Help.
I could hear the crunching and popping (like bubble wrap or cellophane) when she started on my feet....she said this is NOT normal.
So after over an hour....we talked alot, she said she went light on me today to introduce me to the treatment, to get a feel for what is going on in there.....I am going Fri. Mon and Weds or Tues.....
She feels optimistic about helping me feel 100% again....said I just have a lot of RSI from all the exercise in the past and not enough stretching...etc. (keep in mind I was working out HARD CORE 7 days a week almost 3-4 hours a day...spin class, kick box, run, weights (as heavy as I could stand, etc) and each time....my muscles just continued to shorten. I repeat not enough stretching...
So anyway...how do I feel? My glute pain is LESS, my feet itch a little, (she said we'll really get into the feet Friday), and my lower back is kind of achy from the intense work.
Boy...that is some hard deep stuff. I just gritted my teeth, breathed real deep and took it.
All in all...? I am EXCITED about going back.
She rocked! if you live in Atlanta Dr. Jody is the one to see.....
If you have questions let me know...I'll do my best to answer.
ALSO! She explained the adhesions in my muscles almost to a tee to the post I did early today....

Re: Sharon W. Barbara Donna and any one else...ART session

Pam B on 5/08/02 at 20:19 (083136)

Glad you are happy with the doc.....sounds to me like you have the right attitude for success :) good luck

Re: Sharon W. Barbara Donna and any one else...ART session

Sharon W on 5/09/02 at 02:21 (083163)

Carmen,

Sounds like you and Dr. Jody are off to a great start! I, too, have a 'good feeling' about this... it may turn out to be the thing that 'really works' for you!

-- Sharon

Re: Sharon W. Barbara Donna and any one else...ART session

Julie on 5/09/02 at 03:17 (083168)

Carmen, it sounds as though you've started something that may really prove helpful. But in the long term (this is probably a silly question, knowing how exercise-wise you are) do you have hamstring stretches you can work on systematically? I could see in your full-length wedding photo how strongly your hamstrings are pulling on your lower back, and as you know I've always thought your other problems probably come from that or are, at least, related.

It can take a long time to lengthen shortened hamstrings and it needs to be done gently. It sounds as though ART is really going to help you, but I'd guess you still need to do a lot of the work yourself...

Just my two cents, as you would say.

Anyway - it's great that you've got off to a good start with ART.

Re: Sharon W. Barbara Donna and any one else...ART session

Donna on 5/09/02 at 05:29 (083184)

You go girl!! Sounds very exciting!! Good luck!! :-)

Re: Sharon W. Barbara Donna and any one else...ART session

Carmen on 5/09/02 at 07:31 (083192)

Hamstring stretching has been a part of my day for about 6 months...and I will no doubt continue especially after this mess. The amount of exercise I did as related to the amount of stretching though? Not at all equal....I was stupid about it and never will be again. :o)
Thank you for your encouragement....I appreciate it immensely.

Re: Hamstrings

Julie on 5/09/02 at 08:10 (083197)

Good girl.

What are you doing? Whatever it is, I'm sure you know that tight muscles react to aggressive stretching by tightening further...so don't be pushing it. Any trembling? Muscles are saying 'Too much. Stop'.

Tell me something. If you're on your back, working at stretching your legs upward towards the ceiling, will your knees straighten (i.e. full extension) with your legs perpendicular to the floor?

If they won't, and if you need to take the legs forward to more than a right angle to straighten them - don't. The weight of your legs (40%-odd of your body weight) will exert a tremendous pull on your lower back. Once your thighs are at a right angle to the floor, leave the knees as bent as they need to be in that position. The hamstrings will still be stretching.

You probably know all this, but I wanted to share this thought with you. Forgive me if I'm teaching my grandmother to stretch her hamstrings.

Re: Hamstrings

Carmen on 5/09/02 at 08:22 (083200)

You're fine...no worries I appreciate everything you say.
I do everything you say.....and no they won't straighten when perp. to the floor....
Funny when I was there yesterday she said to bend forward and rech as far as I could without strain. I touched he floor...she said 'I bet you've been told you don't have tight hamstrings b/c you can touch the floor'...She was right. I have been told that...but when she got in the hamstring stretching...she was amazed at how tight I was..
Sigh...what a mess.
:o)
Carmen is tight as a drum!

Re: Hamstrings

Barbara S on 5/09/02 at 09:05 (083203)

Hi Glad for the info on ART. I checked the directory and the closest one to Milwaukee is in Delavan 50 miles away. WHen I'm fully recoverd from TTS Surgery I just may go try it out. I hope it continues to work. Keep us informed. Thanks GOd Bless Barbara S.

Re: Hamstring stretching

Carole C in NOLA on 5/09/02 at 11:16 (083217)

I've noticed that hamstring stretching has been beneficial to me too.

And Carmen, I'm thrilled that the ART worked so well for you!

Carole C

Re: Sharon W. Barbara Donna and any one else...ART session

Lisa G on 5/09/02 at 14:26 (083238)

hi carmen,
can you please tell me what ART is? and what is RSI?

i'm new to the board and still learning all the letters...lol

glad it went well

lisa

Re: Hamstrings

JudyS on 5/09/02 at 16:09 (083253)

as a little addendum to Julie's hamstring advice - I think that very stretch was one thing that contributed to my PF lo those many years ago. I remember distinctly forcing my leg further and further towards my nose, AND flexing my foot at the same time to add to the calf stretch! That particular stretch, in fact, is really meant to be done with a partner so that the back can stay flat to the floor.

Re: Sharon W. Barbara Donna and any one else...ART session

Carmen on 5/09/02 at 17:44 (083264)

See above post to you.

Re: Hamstrings

Julie on 5/10/02 at 02:18 (083323)

Judy! You didn't!

Seriously - yes, it probably did contribute.

The stretch I was talking about doesn't have to be done with a partner. You do have to keep your entire spine on the floor, but the way to do that is not to bring the leg past the vertical (perpendicular to the floor) position. It's actually a gentle, yet extremely effective, stretch. Pulling the leg towards the face can pull the back off the floor - and overstretch the lower back muscles.

I've had guys with extremely tight hamstrings (from running, football, etc) who have succeeded (with this stretch, essentially) in lengthening them to the point where the leg straightens at a right angle to the body. It takes years, but with persistence, it happens.

Finer point. It took me years to realize that the flexing of the foot shouldn't be done till the endpoint of the stretch. The stretch for the hamstrings is more effective if the foot is in neutral until the leg is straight (or as straight as it's going to be). At that point, flexing adds the stretch for the gastroc/soleus/achilles.

Re: Sharon W. Barbara Donna and any one else...ART session

Rich on 5/10/02 at 08:32 (083355)

This sounds great! Hopefully something that finally works for you! I'll have to go back to your original post on ART and read more, then I'll probably have some questions for you!!

Richelle

Re: Hamstrings

john h on 5/10/02 at 11:29 (083388)

Julie: I sort of gave up my regular hamstring stretch about a year ago. I would stand and place on leg up on a rail which was a little over waist high and bend forward slightly with leg held straight until I felt a slight pull on the hamstring. Hold it for 5 or so seconds. It sure did put a stretch on the hamstring but you are of course standing on one leg.I just know you are going to say bad bad bad John.

Re: Hamstrings

Julie on 5/10/02 at 11:35 (083391)

Now I wouldn't say that, John.

But.

It's an awfully strong stretch. And if it isn't done very precisely, with the pelvis positioned correctly it can damage the lower back (incorrectly would be tipping the pelvis forward and exaggerating the lumbar curve, or letting it skew off to the side).

It's better, standing in front of a staircase to place the heel on the first stair and bending forward till a hamstring stretch is felt, and increasing gradually by moving up to the next stair and the next - maintaining correct technique/pelvic position.

I feel an attack of deja vu coming on. I think we had this conversation about a year ago...

Re: Hamstrings

john h on 5/10/02 at 12:52 (083424)

We did just have an attack of the old double post Julie and yes I do think we had that conversation a year or so ago (see our memories still do function).

Re: Sharon W. Barbara Donna and any one else...ART session

Pam B on 5/08/02 at 20:19 (083136)

Glad you are happy with the doc.....sounds to me like you have the right attitude for success :) good luck

Re: Sharon W. Barbara Donna and any one else...ART session

Sharon W on 5/09/02 at 02:21 (083163)

Carmen,

Sounds like you and Dr. Jody are off to a great start! I, too, have a 'good feeling' about this... it may turn out to be the thing that 'really works' for you!

-- Sharon

Re: Sharon W. Barbara Donna and any one else...ART session

Julie on 5/09/02 at 03:17 (083168)

Carmen, it sounds as though you've started something that may really prove helpful. But in the long term (this is probably a silly question, knowing how exercise-wise you are) do you have hamstring stretches you can work on systematically? I could see in your full-length wedding photo how strongly your hamstrings are pulling on your lower back, and as you know I've always thought your other problems probably come from that or are, at least, related.

It can take a long time to lengthen shortened hamstrings and it needs to be done gently. It sounds as though ART is really going to help you, but I'd guess you still need to do a lot of the work yourself...

Just my two cents, as you would say.

Anyway - it's great that you've got off to a good start with ART.

Re: Sharon W. Barbara Donna and any one else...ART session

Donna on 5/09/02 at 05:29 (083184)

You go girl!! Sounds very exciting!! Good luck!! :-)

Re: Sharon W. Barbara Donna and any one else...ART session

Carmen on 5/09/02 at 07:31 (083192)

Hamstring stretching has been a part of my day for about 6 months...and I will no doubt continue especially after this mess. The amount of exercise I did as related to the amount of stretching though? Not at all equal....I was stupid about it and never will be again. :o)
Thank you for your encouragement....I appreciate it immensely.

Re: Hamstrings

Julie on 5/09/02 at 08:10 (083197)

Good girl.

What are you doing? Whatever it is, I'm sure you know that tight muscles react to aggressive stretching by tightening further...so don't be pushing it. Any trembling? Muscles are saying 'Too much. Stop'.

Tell me something. If you're on your back, working at stretching your legs upward towards the ceiling, will your knees straighten (i.e. full extension) with your legs perpendicular to the floor?

If they won't, and if you need to take the legs forward to more than a right angle to straighten them - don't. The weight of your legs (40%-odd of your body weight) will exert a tremendous pull on your lower back. Once your thighs are at a right angle to the floor, leave the knees as bent as they need to be in that position. The hamstrings will still be stretching.

You probably know all this, but I wanted to share this thought with you. Forgive me if I'm teaching my grandmother to stretch her hamstrings.

Re: Hamstrings

Carmen on 5/09/02 at 08:22 (083200)

You're fine...no worries I appreciate everything you say.
I do everything you say.....and no they won't straighten when perp. to the floor....
Funny when I was there yesterday she said to bend forward and rech as far as I could without strain. I touched he floor...she said 'I bet you've been told you don't have tight hamstrings b/c you can touch the floor'...She was right. I have been told that...but when she got in the hamstring stretching...she was amazed at how tight I was..
Sigh...what a mess.
:o)
Carmen is tight as a drum!

Re: Hamstrings

Barbara S on 5/09/02 at 09:05 (083203)

Hi Glad for the info on ART. I checked the directory and the closest one to Milwaukee is in Delavan 50 miles away. WHen I'm fully recoverd from TTS Surgery I just may go try it out. I hope it continues to work. Keep us informed. Thanks GOd Bless Barbara S.

Re: Hamstring stretching

Carole C in NOLA on 5/09/02 at 11:16 (083217)

I've noticed that hamstring stretching has been beneficial to me too.

And Carmen, I'm thrilled that the ART worked so well for you!

Carole C

Re: Sharon W. Barbara Donna and any one else...ART session

Lisa G on 5/09/02 at 14:26 (083238)

hi carmen,
can you please tell me what ART is? and what is RSI?

i'm new to the board and still learning all the letters...lol

glad it went well

lisa

Re: Hamstrings

JudyS on 5/09/02 at 16:09 (083253)

as a little addendum to Julie's hamstring advice - I think that very stretch was one thing that contributed to my PF lo those many years ago. I remember distinctly forcing my leg further and further towards my nose, AND flexing my foot at the same time to add to the calf stretch! That particular stretch, in fact, is really meant to be done with a partner so that the back can stay flat to the floor.

Re: Sharon W. Barbara Donna and any one else...ART session

Carmen on 5/09/02 at 17:44 (083264)

See above post to you.

Re: Hamstrings

Julie on 5/10/02 at 02:18 (083323)

Judy! You didn't!

Seriously - yes, it probably did contribute.

The stretch I was talking about doesn't have to be done with a partner. You do have to keep your entire spine on the floor, but the way to do that is not to bring the leg past the vertical (perpendicular to the floor) position. It's actually a gentle, yet extremely effective, stretch. Pulling the leg towards the face can pull the back off the floor - and overstretch the lower back muscles.

I've had guys with extremely tight hamstrings (from running, football, etc) who have succeeded (with this stretch, essentially) in lengthening them to the point where the leg straightens at a right angle to the body. It takes years, but with persistence, it happens.

Finer point. It took me years to realize that the flexing of the foot shouldn't be done till the endpoint of the stretch. The stretch for the hamstrings is more effective if the foot is in neutral until the leg is straight (or as straight as it's going to be). At that point, flexing adds the stretch for the gastroc/soleus/achilles.

Re: Sharon W. Barbara Donna and any one else...ART session

Rich on 5/10/02 at 08:32 (083355)

This sounds great! Hopefully something that finally works for you! I'll have to go back to your original post on ART and read more, then I'll probably have some questions for you!!

Richelle

Re: Hamstrings

john h on 5/10/02 at 11:29 (083388)

Julie: I sort of gave up my regular hamstring stretch about a year ago. I would stand and place on leg up on a rail which was a little over waist high and bend forward slightly with leg held straight until I felt a slight pull on the hamstring. Hold it for 5 or so seconds. It sure did put a stretch on the hamstring but you are of course standing on one leg.I just know you are going to say bad bad bad John.

Re: Hamstrings

Julie on 5/10/02 at 11:35 (083391)

Now I wouldn't say that, John.

But.

It's an awfully strong stretch. And if it isn't done very precisely, with the pelvis positioned correctly it can damage the lower back (incorrectly would be tipping the pelvis forward and exaggerating the lumbar curve, or letting it skew off to the side).

It's better, standing in front of a staircase to place the heel on the first stair and bending forward till a hamstring stretch is felt, and increasing gradually by moving up to the next stair and the next - maintaining correct technique/pelvic position.

I feel an attack of deja vu coming on. I think we had this conversation about a year ago...

Re: Hamstrings

john h on 5/10/02 at 12:52 (083424)

We did just have an attack of the old double post Julie and yes I do think we had that conversation a year or so ago (see our memories still do function).