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spelling&grammer thing?

Posted by susie c on 5/18/02 at 14:08 (084457)

I must of missed something on the board. What is all this excitement about the spelling and grammer? If it is that important I
guess I should close right now and never enter again ! I am not the best in that department and I feel that it definetly does
not make me any lesser of a person than the person that has all control of the english language. Maybe I excell in a area others lack. Susie

Re: spelling&grammer thing?

Mike D on 5/18/02 at 15:11 (084458)

Lisa K writes a 'stream of consciousness' type of note without capital letters or punctuation. There are lots of spelling errors. It makes for difficult reading, and the possibility that she cannot be helped because the readers cannot understand what she is saying.

English is the language of commerce in the world, and for success, you need to be the master of it. It is imporant to be able to communicate accurately and with a nice style. There are so many dividends to its mastery. One of the readers complained about Lisa's style and was promptly put down by the other members of this board. That was unfortunate--Lisa would benefit from writing a higher level of English, both with her present PF problem and in any of her future endeavers.

Re: spelling&grammer thing?

nancy s. on 5/18/02 at 17:05 (084473)

mike, i certainly appreciate your post about this. the point in julie's original post was apparently lost on some important people: the point being to try to make oneself understood, not in the least to slam others or question their intelligence or demand perfection. (there is no such thing as perfection.)

all of us make typos and errors at times, and it's no big deal; in fact, we all often find humor and laugh at ourselves about them. it's when a whole post becomes impossible to understand that people who WANT TO HELP get frustrated.

i'd like to point out here that julie has been on this board for a long time, and her pf was mostly resolved over a year ago. she spends hours every day, and money, to come to this board and continue to try to help others not so far along in their healing -- and she's helped many, many people in a variety of ways (certainly including me). she has both expertise and compassion. i think she deserves a lot of appreciation for what she does here, and the overreaction to her mention of incomprehensible posts was mean in itself. enough already!

same can be said of wendy -- she's been here for years, and at this point gives a lot more than she takes from this site.

so, guys, give these giant helpers a break, PLEASE! this site would be very much the poorer without them.

thanks again, mike. you make a lot of sense and have your eye on the ball.

nancy

Re: spelling&grammer thing?

Tammie on 5/18/02 at 17:25 (084478)

I am terrible with this grammer and writing thing but I love the people here and that means all with good grammer or poor! I try to help others from my heart with no intension of any type of malice or harm. I try to be more helpful posting a post that is easier to read if someone lets me know how to do it!(lol) I can admit I am very bad with my posting both grammer and text and spelling!

But all of you seem to accept me for my heart if nothing else (lol) And I tend to learn a bit in the process! You are never to old to learn! Learning is fun now that we dont HAVE to !

Re: Okay now....

Rich on 5/18/02 at 18:08 (084485)

I for one think we are beating a dead horse on this issue!! All posters are welcome here...if we can't understand, then it's a loss to all of us.

Rich

Re: spelling&grammer thing?

wendyn on 5/18/02 at 18:34 (084493)

Just one last comment....then I'm going to let this one rest for me.

We have people on this board who do not speak English as their first language. No one gets upset or angry with their mistakes or errors. No one cares. They do the best they can and you can figure out what they're saying. It is just not an issue.

My other good buddy here is a self admitted dyslexic. Her spelling is not great either, but again - no one complains. It's good enough that you can understand the questions and the comments. It is a non-issue.

I think the only time it's a 'problem' is if a post is so hard to read and udnerstand, that people don't bother trying to decipher it. Then it's too bad because someone may miss out on some support or answers that they really need.

That's it. No hidden motives, nothing else. If anyone wants to twist this into 'picking on people'...then they are missing the point.

Now I will get back off the soap box and stay off!!!

Re: spelling&grammer thing?

john h on 5/18/02 at 19:28 (084503)

Julie is certainly one who gives of her time and expertise and it is much appreciated by all. I fear I am the one who may have responded to her initial post. My post was purely in jest and as jest does sometimes it fell on it's face. I apologize.

Re: spelling&grammer thing?

paula on 5/18/02 at 19:48 (084505)

oh contrare. i don't think they were put down. some of us just said that if we were told to write better like she had been, we might feel hurt. and it turned out she did feel hurt. i'll say it again. it is much more important that we give kind emotional support to fellow sufferers than lectures about proper use of english. jack kerouac is on my side on this one :). some of can't write better for a variety of reasons. extreme pain is one of them. get in , write our thing, go do something that alleviates the pain.... tho i must admit jack might not approve of the smiley face.

Re: spelling&grammer thing?

paula on 5/18/02 at 19:57 (084506)

am i an important person? i better be or i'll start quoting obscure poets again. eleanore whitefish catbury comes to mind. watch out :) i think we all had our various opinions on this issue and i don't think that is a bad thing. as long as we are respectful in our different opinions. i don't think i misunderstood julie's post. i think i offered another idea. julie is a great contributor here. she is much appreciated. everyone who posts here is appreciated by me. the more input here the more help we will all get.

Re: good points, Nancy...

Suzanne D on 5/18/02 at 20:40 (084519)

I have been personally helped and encouraged by both Julie and Wendy, and it shows true greatness of spirit to keep giving of their knowledge and experience even when they are not getting as much back from others.

Realizing that most everyone here has their hands full with a job and home duties, it is wonderful to see so much care and giving by unselfish people.

Re: To all

Julie on 5/19/02 at 05:34 (084545)

My post, the one that sparked off this unfortunate, unhelpful thread, was not about spelling, grammar and punctuation. It was about communication, clarity, and consideration. It was a plea for all three. At a time when the board had felt to me that it was getting too big and diffuse to cope with, I blew a fuse when I found myself reading and re-reading Lisa's post with increasing incomprehension.

When I wrote that post, I sensed that Lisa was quite capable of writing a coherent sentence, of asking a clear question, of hitting the keys she wants to hit, and of correcting her typing errors. I also sensed that she can spell: that she isn't dyslexic, or a recent learner of English, as others wondered. And I was right on all counts, as Lisa has clearly shown in her more recent posts.

That was what made me angry: that, being capable of making herself clear, she simply wasn't bothering to, and was wasting my time. I think, though I'm aware that most of you will probably not agree with me, that she was being inconsiderate.

I have a different concept of support from some, perhaps most people who post here. I don't think pain is an excuse for lack of consideration: nearly everyone here is in pain, and the people who are in the most pain (Laurie, Janet...) are the MOST thoughtful and considerate.

And I can't see any use or value in cossetting and reassuring people when they're off base. I think clarity and detachment can also be supportive. More genuinely supportive. And if anyone thinks I'm wrong there, or that I'm unsympathetic and unkind, I can live with that.

Mike: thank you for your post. You understood what I meant, and I'm grateful. So did several other people: Wendy, Nancy, Nancy, Carole, Rich, and I'm grateful to all of you too. So I did not at all feel 'put down by the others'. I felt I had plenty of support - more than I deserved.

John: there was no need for you to apologize. (I emailed you in reply to yours, but it went to your old address and came back, and I'll try again.)

Nancy S: thanks for what you said. Thanks very, very much.

Lisa: I apologized to you, and, despite the fact that you threw my apology rather vindictively back at me, I apologize again. I did not mean to hurt you. My aim, though I sabotaged it by my irritation, was to encourage you to make yourself clearer so that you could get the help you need. I sincerely hope that you will get that help.

Re: Julie...

Suzanne D on 5/19/02 at 07:46 (084554)

Julie, I knew you had nothing but good intentions in your post to Lisa, and at this point, I am sorry that I have not said so on the board. You have explained and apologized for any irritation shown, and more than that, you have - through time - shown everyone how willing you are to help and share.

Thank you for all you do to help everyone.

Suzanne :-)

Re: Julie...

paula on 5/19/02 at 09:01 (084556)

i think if someone graciously apologizes twice it should be enough already. it's not like there was an ax murder here. maybe we can all get something out of this dialogue. what s supportive to some of us might be the opposite to others. i have always found that people lilke rich and julie and tammie and many others are suportive in their own ways. those ways are different. i think the common thread is the spirit of wanting to help others. if that spirit is there then i hope we can talk out our differences in opinion without it ending on an unfortunate note. i would like to hear from others about what has been supportive to them here. maybe that will complete this dialogue in a positive way. it means so much to me when tammie hugs folks. when rich responds to everyone with a few very specific words of caring, when julie gives and gives of her knowledge. and also the posters who just drop by every once in a while to encourage and give great information. and the doctors here have helped me, and no one yet has mentioned all the help i give by obsessively ranting about jack kerouac but i think that is just because they are overwhelmed by how helpful that is :)

Re: Et al

wendyn on 5/19/02 at 09:10 (084559)

Let's not forget Donna SL and her shoe knowledge (she still amazes me).

Suzanne and her wonderful stories of grade 1.

John and his Molson's and tuna sancwiches.

Laurie and her compassion for everyone.

Pauline and her unique, informed perspective.

I could go on, and on, and on.....

Re: Spelling and grammer

Pauline on 5/19/02 at 10:12 (084569)

I've been on the board long enought to see everyone from physicians to general poster put in print what others might consider 'impaired use' of the English language whether it be errors in spelling or grammer. What I find most interesting, however, has been the selectivity used in pointing out the wrong doing. Perhaps done on purpose, or in jest, or for sake of clarity it's very apparent some get's slamed while others don't.

Appologies were in order, and I for one was glad to see them appear quickly to this new poster.

Re: To all

JudyS on 5/19/02 at 14:19 (084586)

Julie, I knew that you had nothing but good intentions when you originally wrote Lisa. But your frustration showed in surprisingly less-than-sensitive wording. However, your graciousness eventually far outweighed that (human) moment and showed itself in your heartfelt apologies. I hope Lisa accepts that and responds as graciously.

I also knew that John h was being himself, jesting, when he compared you to his school teacher. But you, and others, took offense at that. I took some offense at one of John's jesting posts some months ago, I said so to some degree and was brought to task because, after all, John was just 'being John'. We know him and love him as we do you. Just as the rest of us have at one time or another, he didn't think that his jest may be interpreted as insensitive or disloyal - he was just being himself. Well, as it was pointed out to me those months ago, those of us who know John h know that he means no harm.

I also knew that my first post, the one entitled 'spelling, grammer and punctuation', which I deliberately posted as a stand-alone independant of the original thread, was meant to present a view of both ideas (poor writing/patience) given that I had some feelings for both. But I sensed that both you AND Lisa took offense at it! And someone else accused me of hurting you! Good heavens. I can't imagine anyone (you) less deserving of that.

But even with that, everyone here must understand one thing - even the very best among us can be disagreed with! There was no name-calling, anger or animosity in any post that disagreed with your original post.

I know wholeheartedly that you contribute here above and beyond. Your advice is generally invaluable, you give it at your own free will and, as you know, sometimes it is not going to be agreed with. If I thought for a minute that I was costing you time and money I would be mortified.

In these threads, supporting statements have referred to you being criticized by others in this instance. I take exception to that. (I also consider myself a supporter, as I think you have been for me.) At no time did anyone do that nor would they - you are far too giving a person here for anyone to want to do such a thing. There were just times when you were disagreed with or, as in John's case, were made light of. Just as I and everyone else have been over time. Even if you're disagreed with by a fellow 'old-timer' well, that's OK and I hope I'm not too presumptious in saying that I think you have no trouble with that.
I did disagree with the tone of your first post. But I didn't disagree that Lisa's posts are extremely difficult to read. And I didn't disagree with who you are and with what you give and I knew what you were trying to accomplish. I think we all understood what you meant - but some disagreed with your method and/or with your content. That was stated in a non-threatening, non-offensive manner by all participants.
I don't think anyone hurt you (and no, you have not stated as much). Everyone's opinion is equally valuable - as long as they're not mean-spirited in their verbage. I don't think apologies are necessary. (And no, you've said nothing about that, either). No one has to defend you because no one attacked you - they simply disagreed with you. No one said anything hurtful to you or about you. Some simply stated some degree of, well, disagreement! And all of that was, after all, in response to a post that seemed somewhat harsh at first blush. Disagreement should be accepted without need for apology and I think you've said so quite nicely on more than one occasion. I'm glad you did not feel 'put down' by others, because, frankly, you were not put down - you were only disagreed with.

Your commitment here, as I said, is invaluable. I, for one, am richer for it. Perhaps a slightly lighter approach would be of great value for you given your investments of time and money.

I would end this particular post by saying that I think it's time Lisa accepts your apologies and responds in kind.
If she chooses to continue to post in a language we cannot understand, or one that's laced with anger, then she runs the risk of losing the most valuable help she can get on this earth regarding PF .

Re: To all

paula on 5/19/02 at 16:24 (084592)

oh-my-god that was well said judy. bravo. since i beleieve i started this whole thing by respectfully disagreeing with the first post it is heartening to think that we might actually acknowledge here that people can disagree without all this rigamarole. at least one person other than me thinks it is valid. and what is all this old timer talk. is that like the good old boys here in georgia? everyone's post or opinion is as valuable as everyone elses. jack kerouac and allen ginsberg and i are now celebrating judy's intelligent post over cocktails at the beat lounge for disembodied poets.

Re: Judy

Julie on 5/19/02 at 16:30 (084593)

Please don't worry, Judy. You're quite right that disagreement is always acceptable. You didn't hurt me, nobody did, and everything is ok.

Re: To all

nancy s. on 5/19/02 at 18:02 (084598)

judy and paula, in case this was meant for me, i did feel that some people disparaging the spelling-grammar thing were missing the point and being a bit mean-spirited underneath it, since those 'issues' were only small examples of a much larger point: communication and the ability to understand it.

no one asked me to defend anyone here. i took it upon myself, and i'm not sorry for it one bit. everyone's input is valuable here, but in the face of the out-of-proportion reaction to julie's original post, i believed it was time to highlight her contributions here in particular. simple as that. since she has apologized up and down for the tone of her initial post, i don't see why it's brought up again now. ?????

my public appreciation for julie's long-term and devoted help here doesn't take anything away from anyone else's contributions. that should be more than obvious.

nancy

Re: To all

Kathy G on 5/19/02 at 18:33 (084603)

Personally, I can't believe the flap this whole thing has caused. Lisa chooses to post in her own individual manner. Those of us who can't understand her posts don't have to respond. Julie is one of the most valuable contibutors to these boards and was simply stating her opinion. Unfortunately, when one is writing a message to someone, tone of voice and body language don't come into play and Lisa (and others, obviously) took offense.

I'm glad that it's over and hope we can continue in the same manner as we have in the past. This is too good a thing to let it get spoiled. And, John H, I think you can be very funny!

Re: To all

nancy s. on 5/19/02 at 18:53 (084609)

kathy, as is usual and human, most people can't believe flaps when they arise here, especially if their own feelings or beliefs aren't directly involved. but these flaps are human, and they all pass, as will this -- probably as of now, or at least tonight.

john h is very funny, and one of many saving graces on this board.

nancy

Re: Everyone is wonderful and we all love each other, TO JULIE

Valerie S on 5/20/02 at 07:39 (084651)

Julie,

You have been one of the most steady and helpful people on this board since I came here well over a year and a half ago. You helped me get through probably the roughest time in my life, along with many other caring and helpful people here. While I had so many people consoling me and helping me feel better through their kind words (which I so desperately needed), You was also here with your great advice and willingness to 'tell it like it is.' I did not like everything that you said to me when I was in so much pain, but at the same time I knew that your words WERE helping me. I cannot thank you enough for helping me face the realities that I needed to confront when I was wallowing in the depths of PF. Your kind voice and strong hand helped pull me out of the muck of my emotions and pain, so that I could face the reality and changes that PF had brought to my life.

I will always be grateful to you for confronting me and for the gentle nudges that you gave me... it seems like another lifetime now, but you really helped me see more clearly what I was doing to myself. You DO have a way with words, and I know that you also spend money on internet service so you can post here. I will always treasure your friendship and advice. We are truly lucky to have you here.

I am not trying to start any new threads here - just wanted to THANK YOU, Julie... I love you just the way you are, and consider myself blessed that you took time to help me when I needed it the most.

Thank you.

Val.

Re: To all

paula on 5/20/02 at 09:51 (084662)

nancy do you mean the old timer remark? no that wasn't meant for you in particular. i am old and don't reallyy track individuals well in cyberspace like some do here. i meant that this phrase keeps coming up in contexts like these and i'll be darned if i know what relevance it has but it doesn't seem like a fair or productive context to me. you know, if anyone could have taken umbrage here it most certainly could have been me, assuming that a lot of this rigamarole was really meaning me since i was the first to disagree and keeep insisting i can disagree. i take no umbrage. to any of this . i encourage others not to take personal umbrage as well and will do my best not to. i don't like the old timer attitude when used in this context. if you are the one who used it nancy then i don't much like it , don't much agree with it. and there you have it. has nothing else to do with you, your value as a poster, your validity in anything else you said. i'm glad you stand by what you said, nancy. that is YOUR right to disagree. i'm so tired of this i could eat my orthotics.

Re: To all

paula on 5/20/02 at 10:25 (084666)

and sorry this has gone on with the people i respect a lot on this board and have been helped by a lot/ i think i will withdraw now. just look at posts and not really participate for a while. i can't really afford to leave here totally. i just had a different opinion than julie. i stated it politely. look what happened. i'm not saying it happened to me. i'm not pointing a finger at any individual. i'm just talking about the group dynamcs here. i'm just saying look what happened. it is really discouraging. what is discouraging is we cannot look at what happened without continuing to make it happen, apparently. we cannot reflect on it, learn from it, improve from it. apparantly. i'm exhausted and i thank nancy, julie and all the others for the help they give people on this board. this is a more impoverished place if there if such little room for respectful disagreement. i respectfully disagreed. i now regrettably shut up.

Re: To all,instead of this ,

Tammie on 5/20/02 at 10:27 (084667)

Ok alot of emotions are in this thread but I believe that we are all forgetting the purpose of this board including the social board! I am risking the anger to be turned on me for jumping in the middle and saying this.I am ready I put on my steel suit(smile)

Ladies and Gentleman, I say this to remind us that we are just this , not bickering youngsters! We all have a huge amout of love for each other and we all suffer from one thing or another and we all are here for something. I think Scott has covered all of this by having different topics to post on. I am abuser of that I am truly sorry, But you see as I look around I do not see a topic of hurting each other. So there fore in my opioion we should forget this hurting war and feelings and get back to whats important! NOONE should Take this personaly as we all have days and times that we are frustrated whether it is reading a post or dealing with our families or friends. A apology was made with true thoughts and feelings It would be up to Lisa to decide if she can forgive this or not, maybe her not responding is meant to be the lets go on , as It hurts but I will try to understand it was not the end of the reason I came here!

In life there are many different personalities and on the net it is very hard to see anothers face . This has been stated many times.Emotions combined with pain can run very hot.Meaning that a small statement can really hurt just like it was a slap. Some that are feeling a bit better withthemselves and there pain may forget how even a simple statement can be taken as a huge letdown. Not intensional on either side just a moment of frustration , or pain either party!

So in hopes that today brings out the sun for EVERYBODY I offer the hand of friendship and understanding of each of our friends here as there is alot to be shared, and tho we often may respond or feel uncertain we know that it is a moment in time, that can be forgotton as who said what or did what can become a biger demon if it goes on.Apoligies have been spoken and if there are acepted with grace we can continue our search and support of those here who need it and offer each a gentle hand or a hug as they are a bit more productive then all this anger!We are human all of us so that means we are not perfect in our thoughts and our actions! I believe there is something in the bible that teaches us to forgive and to pray for those who need it .Not to continue something that may hurt others. I am again asking each of us to stand back take a deep breathe feel and let go the frustration and the anger! Let the love flood back in and the understanding and the answers that have been given! Much love to you all as I know in our hearts there is NOT EVEN a ONE here that wants to hurt someone with a post or anything else . We are all Gods angels!

May the sun shine on all of you and each of you feels the warmth in your hearts that was a gift given to us this day by the one who felt the most pain in being hurt!As I have been shown that he gave us his son.

Re: Ditto that Valerie!!! (eom)

Carmen on 5/20/02 at 16:20 (084693)

.

Re: Val: thank you very much

Julie on 5/20/02 at 17:13 (084699)

Dear Val

You may be right that I have a way with words, but I honestly don't have the words to tell you how much you have just heartened me.

Yes, I do try to see things clearly, and when I try to help others do that it sometimes backfires, but when it's taken as help, as you took it, it's deeply rewarding. And now you've more than repaid whatever help I was able to give you. You always have. I've been thrilled over the last 18 months at how you were able to turn things round, intelligently change what needed changing, and above all use your hard-won knowledge to help others. Please never forget, though, that it was you that did the work.

It seems a lifetime ago to me, too. I couldn't do it now: I haven't the energy.

I'd meant not to say another word on this thread: you can't begin to imagine how tired I am and how heartsick I've been about what has happened here since Friday. If I had one wish, it would be that I had never written that impatient post. If I had another, it would be that everyone would now stop.

Val, thanks so much. I'm going to bed happier than I have for some days, and I treasure what you've said.

And Carmen, thank you too for your 'ditto' - it's much appreciated.

Re: To all

john h on 5/20/02 at 18:32 (084708)

Paula-no need to go anywhere. in the big scheme of things this is not worth getting that upset over. It was me that started the thread after Julie's post and she and I are still very good friends. Some of us are conservative, some liberal, some could care less. Some have big $ and some not very big $. what we all share is the pain of PF. have a glass of wine and let us move on to something new. we need all the input we can get around here.

Re: To all

Carmen on 5/21/02 at 14:10 (084784)

this whole thing made metired before I got down to the third post. Too much wasted energy.

Re: spelling&grammer thing?

lisa k on 5/23/02 at 14:28 (085003)

DID YOU ALL READ MY EXPLANATION LETTER CONCERNING ,I TYPE THAT WAY BECAUSE OF MY FORMER JOB? IT ACTUALLY IS PERFECTLY PUNCTUATED AND COMPOSED CORRECTED ACCORDING TO COMP 101 I TOOK IN COLLEGE. READ IT MIKE. I AM TIRED OF ALL THE CUT DOWNS,REALLY! THIS PLACE IS ABOUT FEET AND OUR PAIN. PLEASE 'GET OVER IT'.GEE ALREADY I HELPED MANY OF YOU OUT IN THE PAST WITH INFORMATION ABOUT STRETCHING AND MY SERIOUS TEAR. I DARED TO JUST SNEEK A PEEK AGAIN, TO SEE 'IF IT WAS SAFE TO GET OUT OF THE WATER'. INSTEAD THERE'S IS ALL THIS NEGATIVE JUNK. BYE,AGAIN AGAIN

Re: spelling&grammer thing?

lisa k on 5/23/02 at 14:47 (085005)

That is a very nice , polite way to state your view. Lisa K.

Re: To all *new*23may

lisa k on 5/23/02 at 15:10 (085008)

Do you know that it took me 4 HOURS, with throbbing PAIN and tears to show I CAN write. I have NEVER stated that i can type OR AM PROFICIENT AT USING A COMPUTER KEYBOARD or proofread typing or have THE BENEFIT OF 4hrs to convey a thought THAT i could speak in 3minutes.
How many of you have a RARE(1%of the PF poulation) tear of the fascia,that was caused by malpractice ,that your trying to HEAL & quite smoking ,&stay away from even the first drink AND not get hospitalized ,again, for depression,I had never written a mean thing on this msg board. Last month, just to get out of a reclining position and not damage by further strain( streched out between 2chairs to get to computerwith a cast on also, which is a very difficult position to properly access the keyboard)
IM a sweet,caring nice person,I DON'T hurt others ,GIVE ME A BREAK. I had a mere 10-15 minutes ,because of DR. bedrest order, to try to convey a msg or reach out to the outside world at all. If you couldnt read it ,just politely, skip it asap and pass it by, that's simple isn't. Now the better news I am healing and will be out of this cast this week . I have less pain and have gotten out of the house,too FINALLY. Take care,all of you and God Bless,love Lisa K. I WANT TO BE 'FREINDS'W/YOU AGAIN ,OR OTHERWISE,FORGIVE AND FORGET <3

Re: Lisa forget what? It never happened!

Tammie on 5/23/02 at 18:43 (085029)

Lisa, start out fresh! It seems to me that you are having alot of stress going on in your life, combined with feeling pretty bad then trying to convey your messages it must be taking a lot from u!

Do something for me right now, find your most comfortable position do what it takes to get comfortable and RELAX! Forget about former posts. Now read and learn about what it is that you are going thru! There is a whole world out there with many many areas with help and knowledge. If you just need a friend or a hug let us know this as I have many to dole out! In fact I shall offer one to you right now(((HUG)))) .

Smoking is a large issue in its self, Very brave of you to take it on with so many other things happening in your life! Just always believe it is the best thing for your body,it will make you feel much better.I could not tell you what to do as i have never smoked, so dont know what to say to help you. I am very proud that you have the courage and the strengh to tackle so many issues in your life to make it better for you! I am so sorry that you are having tough times , I am not pushing Bible or anything but I will say this have you read that poem about footsteps in the sand? Put your heart with him and allow him to carry you thru the hard days and heal your soul as he carries you through today and yesterday and tomorrow. Each day will be a new day each day you will become stronger and soon you will stand up and say I did it and I am pleased. Love yourself and have faith in yourself. You will get through today!

Take each day with love and happiness and allow the people in your life to help you through with there love and support!We are here for you as others! Ok today is over now tomorrow the sun wiull shine and will be a much better day! Has your Dr. addressed the posiblities of medication to help through the hard days? It might be good to talk to him or her. Love to you and I pray each tomorrow will be full of love and happiness.

Re: Lisa forget what? It never happened!

lisa k on 5/24/02 at 00:56 (085051)

thanks for the hug Tammie, and God Bless,Lisa K.(have insomnia again)

Re: spelling&grammer thing?

Mike D on 5/18/02 at 15:11 (084458)

Lisa K writes a 'stream of consciousness' type of note without capital letters or punctuation. There are lots of spelling errors. It makes for difficult reading, and the possibility that she cannot be helped because the readers cannot understand what she is saying.

English is the language of commerce in the world, and for success, you need to be the master of it. It is imporant to be able to communicate accurately and with a nice style. There are so many dividends to its mastery. One of the readers complained about Lisa's style and was promptly put down by the other members of this board. That was unfortunate--Lisa would benefit from writing a higher level of English, both with her present PF problem and in any of her future endeavers.

Re: spelling&grammer thing?

nancy s. on 5/18/02 at 17:05 (084473)

mike, i certainly appreciate your post about this. the point in julie's original post was apparently lost on some important people: the point being to try to make oneself understood, not in the least to slam others or question their intelligence or demand perfection. (there is no such thing as perfection.)

all of us make typos and errors at times, and it's no big deal; in fact, we all often find humor and laugh at ourselves about them. it's when a whole post becomes impossible to understand that people who WANT TO HELP get frustrated.

i'd like to point out here that julie has been on this board for a long time, and her pf was mostly resolved over a year ago. she spends hours every day, and money, to come to this board and continue to try to help others not so far along in their healing -- and she's helped many, many people in a variety of ways (certainly including me). she has both expertise and compassion. i think she deserves a lot of appreciation for what she does here, and the overreaction to her mention of incomprehensible posts was mean in itself. enough already!

same can be said of wendy -- she's been here for years, and at this point gives a lot more than she takes from this site.

so, guys, give these giant helpers a break, PLEASE! this site would be very much the poorer without them.

thanks again, mike. you make a lot of sense and have your eye on the ball.

nancy

Re: spelling&grammer thing?

Tammie on 5/18/02 at 17:25 (084478)

I am terrible with this grammer and writing thing but I love the people here and that means all with good grammer or poor! I try to help others from my heart with no intension of any type of malice or harm. I try to be more helpful posting a post that is easier to read if someone lets me know how to do it!(lol) I can admit I am very bad with my posting both grammer and text and spelling!

But all of you seem to accept me for my heart if nothing else (lol) And I tend to learn a bit in the process! You are never to old to learn! Learning is fun now that we dont HAVE to !

Re: Okay now....

Rich on 5/18/02 at 18:08 (084485)

I for one think we are beating a dead horse on this issue!! All posters are welcome here...if we can't understand, then it's a loss to all of us.

Rich

Re: spelling&grammer thing?

wendyn on 5/18/02 at 18:34 (084493)

Just one last comment....then I'm going to let this one rest for me.

We have people on this board who do not speak English as their first language. No one gets upset or angry with their mistakes or errors. No one cares. They do the best they can and you can figure out what they're saying. It is just not an issue.

My other good buddy here is a self admitted dyslexic. Her spelling is not great either, but again - no one complains. It's good enough that you can understand the questions and the comments. It is a non-issue.

I think the only time it's a 'problem' is if a post is so hard to read and udnerstand, that people don't bother trying to decipher it. Then it's too bad because someone may miss out on some support or answers that they really need.

That's it. No hidden motives, nothing else. If anyone wants to twist this into 'picking on people'...then they are missing the point.

Now I will get back off the soap box and stay off!!!

Re: spelling&grammer thing?

john h on 5/18/02 at 19:28 (084503)

Julie is certainly one who gives of her time and expertise and it is much appreciated by all. I fear I am the one who may have responded to her initial post. My post was purely in jest and as jest does sometimes it fell on it's face. I apologize.

Re: spelling&grammer thing?

paula on 5/18/02 at 19:48 (084505)

oh contrare. i don't think they were put down. some of us just said that if we were told to write better like she had been, we might feel hurt. and it turned out she did feel hurt. i'll say it again. it is much more important that we give kind emotional support to fellow sufferers than lectures about proper use of english. jack kerouac is on my side on this one :). some of can't write better for a variety of reasons. extreme pain is one of them. get in , write our thing, go do something that alleviates the pain.... tho i must admit jack might not approve of the smiley face.

Re: spelling&grammer thing?

paula on 5/18/02 at 19:57 (084506)

am i an important person? i better be or i'll start quoting obscure poets again. eleanore whitefish catbury comes to mind. watch out :) i think we all had our various opinions on this issue and i don't think that is a bad thing. as long as we are respectful in our different opinions. i don't think i misunderstood julie's post. i think i offered another idea. julie is a great contributor here. she is much appreciated. everyone who posts here is appreciated by me. the more input here the more help we will all get.

Re: good points, Nancy...

Suzanne D on 5/18/02 at 20:40 (084519)

I have been personally helped and encouraged by both Julie and Wendy, and it shows true greatness of spirit to keep giving of their knowledge and experience even when they are not getting as much back from others.

Realizing that most everyone here has their hands full with a job and home duties, it is wonderful to see so much care and giving by unselfish people.

Re: To all

Julie on 5/19/02 at 05:34 (084545)

My post, the one that sparked off this unfortunate, unhelpful thread, was not about spelling, grammar and punctuation. It was about communication, clarity, and consideration. It was a plea for all three. At a time when the board had felt to me that it was getting too big and diffuse to cope with, I blew a fuse when I found myself reading and re-reading Lisa's post with increasing incomprehension.

When I wrote that post, I sensed that Lisa was quite capable of writing a coherent sentence, of asking a clear question, of hitting the keys she wants to hit, and of correcting her typing errors. I also sensed that she can spell: that she isn't dyslexic, or a recent learner of English, as others wondered. And I was right on all counts, as Lisa has clearly shown in her more recent posts.

That was what made me angry: that, being capable of making herself clear, she simply wasn't bothering to, and was wasting my time. I think, though I'm aware that most of you will probably not agree with me, that she was being inconsiderate.

I have a different concept of support from some, perhaps most people who post here. I don't think pain is an excuse for lack of consideration: nearly everyone here is in pain, and the people who are in the most pain (Laurie, Janet...) are the MOST thoughtful and considerate.

And I can't see any use or value in cossetting and reassuring people when they're off base. I think clarity and detachment can also be supportive. More genuinely supportive. And if anyone thinks I'm wrong there, or that I'm unsympathetic and unkind, I can live with that.

Mike: thank you for your post. You understood what I meant, and I'm grateful. So did several other people: Wendy, Nancy, Nancy, Carole, Rich, and I'm grateful to all of you too. So I did not at all feel 'put down by the others'. I felt I had plenty of support - more than I deserved.

John: there was no need for you to apologize. (I emailed you in reply to yours, but it went to your old address and came back, and I'll try again.)

Nancy S: thanks for what you said. Thanks very, very much.

Lisa: I apologized to you, and, despite the fact that you threw my apology rather vindictively back at me, I apologize again. I did not mean to hurt you. My aim, though I sabotaged it by my irritation, was to encourage you to make yourself clearer so that you could get the help you need. I sincerely hope that you will get that help.

Re: Julie...

Suzanne D on 5/19/02 at 07:46 (084554)

Julie, I knew you had nothing but good intentions in your post to Lisa, and at this point, I am sorry that I have not said so on the board. You have explained and apologized for any irritation shown, and more than that, you have - through time - shown everyone how willing you are to help and share.

Thank you for all you do to help everyone.

Suzanne :-)

Re: Julie...

paula on 5/19/02 at 09:01 (084556)

i think if someone graciously apologizes twice it should be enough already. it's not like there was an ax murder here. maybe we can all get something out of this dialogue. what s supportive to some of us might be the opposite to others. i have always found that people lilke rich and julie and tammie and many others are suportive in their own ways. those ways are different. i think the common thread is the spirit of wanting to help others. if that spirit is there then i hope we can talk out our differences in opinion without it ending on an unfortunate note. i would like to hear from others about what has been supportive to them here. maybe that will complete this dialogue in a positive way. it means so much to me when tammie hugs folks. when rich responds to everyone with a few very specific words of caring, when julie gives and gives of her knowledge. and also the posters who just drop by every once in a while to encourage and give great information. and the doctors here have helped me, and no one yet has mentioned all the help i give by obsessively ranting about jack kerouac but i think that is just because they are overwhelmed by how helpful that is :)

Re: Et al

wendyn on 5/19/02 at 09:10 (084559)

Let's not forget Donna SL and her shoe knowledge (she still amazes me).

Suzanne and her wonderful stories of grade 1.

John and his Molson's and tuna sancwiches.

Laurie and her compassion for everyone.

Pauline and her unique, informed perspective.

I could go on, and on, and on.....

Re: Spelling and grammer

Pauline on 5/19/02 at 10:12 (084569)

I've been on the board long enought to see everyone from physicians to general poster put in print what others might consider 'impaired use' of the English language whether it be errors in spelling or grammer. What I find most interesting, however, has been the selectivity used in pointing out the wrong doing. Perhaps done on purpose, or in jest, or for sake of clarity it's very apparent some get's slamed while others don't.

Appologies were in order, and I for one was glad to see them appear quickly to this new poster.

Re: To all

JudyS on 5/19/02 at 14:19 (084586)

Julie, I knew that you had nothing but good intentions when you originally wrote Lisa. But your frustration showed in surprisingly less-than-sensitive wording. However, your graciousness eventually far outweighed that (human) moment and showed itself in your heartfelt apologies. I hope Lisa accepts that and responds as graciously.

I also knew that John h was being himself, jesting, when he compared you to his school teacher. But you, and others, took offense at that. I took some offense at one of John's jesting posts some months ago, I said so to some degree and was brought to task because, after all, John was just 'being John'. We know him and love him as we do you. Just as the rest of us have at one time or another, he didn't think that his jest may be interpreted as insensitive or disloyal - he was just being himself. Well, as it was pointed out to me those months ago, those of us who know John h know that he means no harm.

I also knew that my first post, the one entitled 'spelling, grammer and punctuation', which I deliberately posted as a stand-alone independant of the original thread, was meant to present a view of both ideas (poor writing/patience) given that I had some feelings for both. But I sensed that both you AND Lisa took offense at it! And someone else accused me of hurting you! Good heavens. I can't imagine anyone (you) less deserving of that.

But even with that, everyone here must understand one thing - even the very best among us can be disagreed with! There was no name-calling, anger or animosity in any post that disagreed with your original post.

I know wholeheartedly that you contribute here above and beyond. Your advice is generally invaluable, you give it at your own free will and, as you know, sometimes it is not going to be agreed with. If I thought for a minute that I was costing you time and money I would be mortified.

In these threads, supporting statements have referred to you being criticized by others in this instance. I take exception to that. (I also consider myself a supporter, as I think you have been for me.) At no time did anyone do that nor would they - you are far too giving a person here for anyone to want to do such a thing. There were just times when you were disagreed with or, as in John's case, were made light of. Just as I and everyone else have been over time. Even if you're disagreed with by a fellow 'old-timer' well, that's OK and I hope I'm not too presumptious in saying that I think you have no trouble with that.
I did disagree with the tone of your first post. But I didn't disagree that Lisa's posts are extremely difficult to read. And I didn't disagree with who you are and with what you give and I knew what you were trying to accomplish. I think we all understood what you meant - but some disagreed with your method and/or with your content. That was stated in a non-threatening, non-offensive manner by all participants.
I don't think anyone hurt you (and no, you have not stated as much). Everyone's opinion is equally valuable - as long as they're not mean-spirited in their verbage. I don't think apologies are necessary. (And no, you've said nothing about that, either). No one has to defend you because no one attacked you - they simply disagreed with you. No one said anything hurtful to you or about you. Some simply stated some degree of, well, disagreement! And all of that was, after all, in response to a post that seemed somewhat harsh at first blush. Disagreement should be accepted without need for apology and I think you've said so quite nicely on more than one occasion. I'm glad you did not feel 'put down' by others, because, frankly, you were not put down - you were only disagreed with.

Your commitment here, as I said, is invaluable. I, for one, am richer for it. Perhaps a slightly lighter approach would be of great value for you given your investments of time and money.

I would end this particular post by saying that I think it's time Lisa accepts your apologies and responds in kind.
If she chooses to continue to post in a language we cannot understand, or one that's laced with anger, then she runs the risk of losing the most valuable help she can get on this earth regarding PF .

Re: To all

paula on 5/19/02 at 16:24 (084592)

oh-my-god that was well said judy. bravo. since i beleieve i started this whole thing by respectfully disagreeing with the first post it is heartening to think that we might actually acknowledge here that people can disagree without all this rigamarole. at least one person other than me thinks it is valid. and what is all this old timer talk. is that like the good old boys here in georgia? everyone's post or opinion is as valuable as everyone elses. jack kerouac and allen ginsberg and i are now celebrating judy's intelligent post over cocktails at the beat lounge for disembodied poets.

Re: Judy

Julie on 5/19/02 at 16:30 (084593)

Please don't worry, Judy. You're quite right that disagreement is always acceptable. You didn't hurt me, nobody did, and everything is ok.

Re: To all

nancy s. on 5/19/02 at 18:02 (084598)

judy and paula, in case this was meant for me, i did feel that some people disparaging the spelling-grammar thing were missing the point and being a bit mean-spirited underneath it, since those 'issues' were only small examples of a much larger point: communication and the ability to understand it.

no one asked me to defend anyone here. i took it upon myself, and i'm not sorry for it one bit. everyone's input is valuable here, but in the face of the out-of-proportion reaction to julie's original post, i believed it was time to highlight her contributions here in particular. simple as that. since she has apologized up and down for the tone of her initial post, i don't see why it's brought up again now. ?????

my public appreciation for julie's long-term and devoted help here doesn't take anything away from anyone else's contributions. that should be more than obvious.

nancy

Re: To all

Kathy G on 5/19/02 at 18:33 (084603)

Personally, I can't believe the flap this whole thing has caused. Lisa chooses to post in her own individual manner. Those of us who can't understand her posts don't have to respond. Julie is one of the most valuable contibutors to these boards and was simply stating her opinion. Unfortunately, when one is writing a message to someone, tone of voice and body language don't come into play and Lisa (and others, obviously) took offense.

I'm glad that it's over and hope we can continue in the same manner as we have in the past. This is too good a thing to let it get spoiled. And, John H, I think you can be very funny!

Re: To all

nancy s. on 5/19/02 at 18:53 (084609)

kathy, as is usual and human, most people can't believe flaps when they arise here, especially if their own feelings or beliefs aren't directly involved. but these flaps are human, and they all pass, as will this -- probably as of now, or at least tonight.

john h is very funny, and one of many saving graces on this board.

nancy

Re: Everyone is wonderful and we all love each other, TO JULIE

Valerie S on 5/20/02 at 07:39 (084651)

Julie,

You have been one of the most steady and helpful people on this board since I came here well over a year and a half ago. You helped me get through probably the roughest time in my life, along with many other caring and helpful people here. While I had so many people consoling me and helping me feel better through their kind words (which I so desperately needed), You was also here with your great advice and willingness to 'tell it like it is.' I did not like everything that you said to me when I was in so much pain, but at the same time I knew that your words WERE helping me. I cannot thank you enough for helping me face the realities that I needed to confront when I was wallowing in the depths of PF. Your kind voice and strong hand helped pull me out of the muck of my emotions and pain, so that I could face the reality and changes that PF had brought to my life.

I will always be grateful to you for confronting me and for the gentle nudges that you gave me... it seems like another lifetime now, but you really helped me see more clearly what I was doing to myself. You DO have a way with words, and I know that you also spend money on internet service so you can post here. I will always treasure your friendship and advice. We are truly lucky to have you here.

I am not trying to start any new threads here - just wanted to THANK YOU, Julie... I love you just the way you are, and consider myself blessed that you took time to help me when I needed it the most.

Thank you.

Val.

Re: To all

paula on 5/20/02 at 09:51 (084662)

nancy do you mean the old timer remark? no that wasn't meant for you in particular. i am old and don't reallyy track individuals well in cyberspace like some do here. i meant that this phrase keeps coming up in contexts like these and i'll be darned if i know what relevance it has but it doesn't seem like a fair or productive context to me. you know, if anyone could have taken umbrage here it most certainly could have been me, assuming that a lot of this rigamarole was really meaning me since i was the first to disagree and keeep insisting i can disagree. i take no umbrage. to any of this . i encourage others not to take personal umbrage as well and will do my best not to. i don't like the old timer attitude when used in this context. if you are the one who used it nancy then i don't much like it , don't much agree with it. and there you have it. has nothing else to do with you, your value as a poster, your validity in anything else you said. i'm glad you stand by what you said, nancy. that is YOUR right to disagree. i'm so tired of this i could eat my orthotics.

Re: To all

paula on 5/20/02 at 10:25 (084666)

and sorry this has gone on with the people i respect a lot on this board and have been helped by a lot/ i think i will withdraw now. just look at posts and not really participate for a while. i can't really afford to leave here totally. i just had a different opinion than julie. i stated it politely. look what happened. i'm not saying it happened to me. i'm not pointing a finger at any individual. i'm just talking about the group dynamcs here. i'm just saying look what happened. it is really discouraging. what is discouraging is we cannot look at what happened without continuing to make it happen, apparently. we cannot reflect on it, learn from it, improve from it. apparantly. i'm exhausted and i thank nancy, julie and all the others for the help they give people on this board. this is a more impoverished place if there if such little room for respectful disagreement. i respectfully disagreed. i now regrettably shut up.

Re: To all,instead of this ,

Tammie on 5/20/02 at 10:27 (084667)

Ok alot of emotions are in this thread but I believe that we are all forgetting the purpose of this board including the social board! I am risking the anger to be turned on me for jumping in the middle and saying this.I am ready I put on my steel suit(smile)

Ladies and Gentleman, I say this to remind us that we are just this , not bickering youngsters! We all have a huge amout of love for each other and we all suffer from one thing or another and we all are here for something. I think Scott has covered all of this by having different topics to post on. I am abuser of that I am truly sorry, But you see as I look around I do not see a topic of hurting each other. So there fore in my opioion we should forget this hurting war and feelings and get back to whats important! NOONE should Take this personaly as we all have days and times that we are frustrated whether it is reading a post or dealing with our families or friends. A apology was made with true thoughts and feelings It would be up to Lisa to decide if she can forgive this or not, maybe her not responding is meant to be the lets go on , as It hurts but I will try to understand it was not the end of the reason I came here!

In life there are many different personalities and on the net it is very hard to see anothers face . This has been stated many times.Emotions combined with pain can run very hot.Meaning that a small statement can really hurt just like it was a slap. Some that are feeling a bit better withthemselves and there pain may forget how even a simple statement can be taken as a huge letdown. Not intensional on either side just a moment of frustration , or pain either party!

So in hopes that today brings out the sun for EVERYBODY I offer the hand of friendship and understanding of each of our friends here as there is alot to be shared, and tho we often may respond or feel uncertain we know that it is a moment in time, that can be forgotton as who said what or did what can become a biger demon if it goes on.Apoligies have been spoken and if there are acepted with grace we can continue our search and support of those here who need it and offer each a gentle hand or a hug as they are a bit more productive then all this anger!We are human all of us so that means we are not perfect in our thoughts and our actions! I believe there is something in the bible that teaches us to forgive and to pray for those who need it .Not to continue something that may hurt others. I am again asking each of us to stand back take a deep breathe feel and let go the frustration and the anger! Let the love flood back in and the understanding and the answers that have been given! Much love to you all as I know in our hearts there is NOT EVEN a ONE here that wants to hurt someone with a post or anything else . We are all Gods angels!

May the sun shine on all of you and each of you feels the warmth in your hearts that was a gift given to us this day by the one who felt the most pain in being hurt!As I have been shown that he gave us his son.

Re: Ditto that Valerie!!! (eom)

Carmen on 5/20/02 at 16:20 (084693)

.

Re: Val: thank you very much

Julie on 5/20/02 at 17:13 (084699)

Dear Val

You may be right that I have a way with words, but I honestly don't have the words to tell you how much you have just heartened me.

Yes, I do try to see things clearly, and when I try to help others do that it sometimes backfires, but when it's taken as help, as you took it, it's deeply rewarding. And now you've more than repaid whatever help I was able to give you. You always have. I've been thrilled over the last 18 months at how you were able to turn things round, intelligently change what needed changing, and above all use your hard-won knowledge to help others. Please never forget, though, that it was you that did the work.

It seems a lifetime ago to me, too. I couldn't do it now: I haven't the energy.

I'd meant not to say another word on this thread: you can't begin to imagine how tired I am and how heartsick I've been about what has happened here since Friday. If I had one wish, it would be that I had never written that impatient post. If I had another, it would be that everyone would now stop.

Val, thanks so much. I'm going to bed happier than I have for some days, and I treasure what you've said.

And Carmen, thank you too for your 'ditto' - it's much appreciated.

Re: To all

john h on 5/20/02 at 18:32 (084708)

Paula-no need to go anywhere. in the big scheme of things this is not worth getting that upset over. It was me that started the thread after Julie's post and she and I are still very good friends. Some of us are conservative, some liberal, some could care less. Some have big $ and some not very big $. what we all share is the pain of PF. have a glass of wine and let us move on to something new. we need all the input we can get around here.

Re: To all

Carmen on 5/21/02 at 14:10 (084784)

this whole thing made metired before I got down to the third post. Too much wasted energy.

Re: spelling&grammer thing?

lisa k on 5/23/02 at 14:28 (085003)

DID YOU ALL READ MY EXPLANATION LETTER CONCERNING ,I TYPE THAT WAY BECAUSE OF MY FORMER JOB? IT ACTUALLY IS PERFECTLY PUNCTUATED AND COMPOSED CORRECTED ACCORDING TO COMP 101 I TOOK IN COLLEGE. READ IT MIKE. I AM TIRED OF ALL THE CUT DOWNS,REALLY! THIS PLACE IS ABOUT FEET AND OUR PAIN. PLEASE 'GET OVER IT'.GEE ALREADY I HELPED MANY OF YOU OUT IN THE PAST WITH INFORMATION ABOUT STRETCHING AND MY SERIOUS TEAR. I DARED TO JUST SNEEK A PEEK AGAIN, TO SEE 'IF IT WAS SAFE TO GET OUT OF THE WATER'. INSTEAD THERE'S IS ALL THIS NEGATIVE JUNK. BYE,AGAIN AGAIN

Re: spelling&grammer thing?

lisa k on 5/23/02 at 14:47 (085005)

That is a very nice , polite way to state your view. Lisa K.

Re: To all *new*23may

lisa k on 5/23/02 at 15:10 (085008)

Do you know that it took me 4 HOURS, with throbbing PAIN and tears to show I CAN write. I have NEVER stated that i can type OR AM PROFICIENT AT USING A COMPUTER KEYBOARD or proofread typing or have THE BENEFIT OF 4hrs to convey a thought THAT i could speak in 3minutes.
How many of you have a RARE(1%of the PF poulation) tear of the fascia,that was caused by malpractice ,that your trying to HEAL & quite smoking ,&stay away from even the first drink AND not get hospitalized ,again, for depression,I had never written a mean thing on this msg board. Last month, just to get out of a reclining position and not damage by further strain( streched out between 2chairs to get to computerwith a cast on also, which is a very difficult position to properly access the keyboard)
IM a sweet,caring nice person,I DON'T hurt others ,GIVE ME A BREAK. I had a mere 10-15 minutes ,because of DR. bedrest order, to try to convey a msg or reach out to the outside world at all. If you couldnt read it ,just politely, skip it asap and pass it by, that's simple isn't. Now the better news I am healing and will be out of this cast this week . I have less pain and have gotten out of the house,too FINALLY. Take care,all of you and God Bless,love Lisa K. I WANT TO BE 'FREINDS'W/YOU AGAIN ,OR OTHERWISE,FORGIVE AND FORGET <3

Re: Lisa forget what? It never happened!

Tammie on 5/23/02 at 18:43 (085029)

Lisa, start out fresh! It seems to me that you are having alot of stress going on in your life, combined with feeling pretty bad then trying to convey your messages it must be taking a lot from u!

Do something for me right now, find your most comfortable position do what it takes to get comfortable and RELAX! Forget about former posts. Now read and learn about what it is that you are going thru! There is a whole world out there with many many areas with help and knowledge. If you just need a friend or a hug let us know this as I have many to dole out! In fact I shall offer one to you right now(((HUG)))) .

Smoking is a large issue in its self, Very brave of you to take it on with so many other things happening in your life! Just always believe it is the best thing for your body,it will make you feel much better.I could not tell you what to do as i have never smoked, so dont know what to say to help you. I am very proud that you have the courage and the strengh to tackle so many issues in your life to make it better for you! I am so sorry that you are having tough times , I am not pushing Bible or anything but I will say this have you read that poem about footsteps in the sand? Put your heart with him and allow him to carry you thru the hard days and heal your soul as he carries you through today and yesterday and tomorrow. Each day will be a new day each day you will become stronger and soon you will stand up and say I did it and I am pleased. Love yourself and have faith in yourself. You will get through today!

Take each day with love and happiness and allow the people in your life to help you through with there love and support!We are here for you as others! Ok today is over now tomorrow the sun wiull shine and will be a much better day! Has your Dr. addressed the posiblities of medication to help through the hard days? It might be good to talk to him or her. Love to you and I pray each tomorrow will be full of love and happiness.

Re: Lisa forget what? It never happened!

lisa k on 5/24/02 at 00:56 (085051)

thanks for the hug Tammie, and God Bless,Lisa K.(have insomnia again)