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Sharon W.

Posted by Carmen on 5/28/02 at 07:57 (085428)

Your post on the doctors board:
Carmen,

'I think a major part of this whole foot pain thing is the quest for peace of mind (You know -- is my diagnosis correct? ...Could there be something 'they' haven't found yet? Should I have more tests done? Do I need to go to a different Dr.? Should I have surgery, or wait?... ETC.'

Is SOOOOOOO right on target!!!!!! I can't even tell you how many times I have said (mainly in the beginning ) if someone could just CONFIRM that this is definitely PF I could rest easy and deal with it so much better!!!!!
I have had a lot more going on than most (hips, back, hamstring involvement) but I chased the medical field searching for other possibilities just to make sure I wasn't missing something MAJOR.

Anxiety ADDS to this condition as it does to anything medical going on...so you nailed it on the head.
We just have to learn to relax once the tests are done and the PF remains...right? ;o)

Re: Sharon W.

Sharon W on 5/28/02 at 09:48 (085439)

Carmen,

You're right; there definitely IS a time for making sure the right doctors have been seen and the right tests has been done and everything has been checked out, that NEEDED to be checked out -- but I think there is also a time to trust and accept your diagnosis, whatever it may be, and focus on taking a POSITIVE attitude toward the appropriate treatment rather than continuing to second-guess everything.

(Of course, even then, if at some point you develop NEW symptoms, new tests and new Dr. visits may be in order...)

In my case, unfortunately, TTS and PF have been pretty well established, all the usual 'conservative treatments' have been attempted, and in fact we are now planning a TTS release. But I am STILL in the testing phase with another problem that my TTS brought to light: varicose veins...

Sigh.

-- Sharon

Re: Sharon W.

Carmen on 5/28/02 at 14:06 (085461)

Oh dear....I'm sorry. but you awlays remain positive too Sharon...and that's a plus!
Have you tried ART for the tarsal Tunnel? It works miracles for Carpal tunnel....thought I'd ask.
Keep us posted. I will be wishing the best for you.

Re: Sharon W.

Sharon W on 5/28/02 at 15:41 (085476)

Carmen,

Thanks for asking.

Actually, I DON'T always remain positive, I just don't like to write about my black moods.

About ART: you know that I was interested in it. But there is no ART practicioner close by -- and besides, I don't think there is any way ART could solve my main problem.

We know for sure is that the posterior tibial vein is distended (varicose), putting pressure on the posterior tibial nerve (inside the tarsal tunnel, where there is NO room for expansion -- but I'm sure you know about all that). That vein showed up clearly swollen on my MRI back in December. Once veins are varicose, they don't STOP being varicose; it means the valves in them that keep the blood flowing back toward the heart have beome incompetent. Compression hose can keep vein from being quite so distended but the only way to REALLY keep a varicose vein from swelling up and occupying space, is to remove it.

Sorry, I'm sure was more information than you needed.

-- Sharon

Re: Sharon W.

Rich on 5/28/02 at 15:54 (085478)

Sharon, I don't mean to butt in here, I just wanted to ask if you had ever had a varicose vein removed? My dad did and it helped tremendously! He's currently wearing that lovely hose due to knee replacement surgery. Too cute!

I'm beginning to think I have some additional problems too...the only test we never did was on the nerves. Worried that's where I'm headed next. :(

Rich

Re: Sharon W.

Carmen on 5/28/02 at 16:04 (085481)

Yes Varicose veins can bea bear....I have read on them and heard about them. Removing them has been said to solve all kinds of problems though. Are you removing it before the TTS surgery? I would try that one first...you just never know what could happen.
I was just brainstorming about the ART or Myofascial Release b/c I have work on the PTT during my sessions to relieve nerve compression in my feet due to inflammation. Sigh...I wish I could help.
I'm sorry you are having trouble though....I know what you mean about black moods. I had one in the car the other day. Just a poor me moment and boy do I hate those b/c my life could be sooooo much worse!
keep me posted on your condition.

Re: Nerves

Sharon W on 5/28/02 at 16:12 (085488)

Rich,

By all means, I think it is worth it to get your nerves checked out. So many of the symptoms for PF and tarsal tunnel syndrome are the SAME, that even a good, experienced specialist can have trouble at times in distinguishing between them without nerve conduction studies being done. The nerve tests certainly aren't FUN, but they don't take very long to do and afterwards, you KNOW whether your nerves are slowed, or not...

Yes, stripping out that varicose vein is EXACTLY what my pod has in mind. But since it's IN THE TARSAL TUNNEL, she first has to cut the band of tough, non-elastic connective tissue that covers and seals the tarsal tunnel, in order to be able to get the vein out of there. And that's called a 'tarsal tunnel release'...

-- Sharon

Re: Nerves

Rich on 5/28/02 at 16:31 (085493)

With my history, I'm just scared of taking that step. The cam walker didn't help and possible caused more harm than good. I'm having a different pain up the back of my heel that I'm afraid might be tendonitis. And I now feel an odd pain if my foot dangles. It didn't hurt to drive before and now I have shooting pains up the inside of my heel/ankle. Oh, well, just another day in the life of....

About that vein, dad did great once that vein was stripped. He's gone on to have both knee replacements done and is doing great. He was diagnosed as a diabetic a couple of years back, so we watch him very closely.

Has your procedure been scheduled yet? Keep me posted and in the meantime, I will keep praying....

Richelle

Re: Nerves

Sharon W on 5/28/02 at 16:44 (085494)

Rich,

Thanks, I appreciate that. No, the procedure hasn't been scheduled yet -- my husband can't drive because of an eye problem, and that means our 16 year old daughter will have to get her liscence so she can do the driving while I'm out of commission! (My pod is talking about putting me in a cast for at least a month, and then I'll probably be in something like a walker, or crutches, for a few weeks, and in the meanwhile SOMEBODY will have to be able to run errands and take people to meetings and drive me to doctors, PT, etc...)

I hate to tell you this, but the 'new' pains you describe sound almost EXACTLY like some of my tarsal tunnel syndrome symptoms. I get a weird tingling, vaguely painful, when my foot dangles. And sometimes I get pain shooting up the back of my calf -- that's where the posterior tibial nerve goes to, the one in the tarsal tunnel. And of course, shooting pains up the inside of the ankle are a classic symptom for TTS...

-- Sharon

Re: Carmen - varicose veins.

Sharon W on 5/28/02 at 17:07 (085499)

Carmen,

Actually, I don't know how bad it is yet but I do know that I have more than that ONE varicose vein. I had an ultrasound done on one of my veins (NOT the same one as in the tarsal tunnel) and I know that the result was abnormal, but I haven't seen my family doctor about the results yet. My guess is that when I see her next week she will probably order MORE tests... Or perhaps she will just send me on to a vascular surgeon -- that's what I'm HOPING she will do.

But so far, what we have planned is for my pod to put on a tourniquet, cut the flexor retinaculum that holds that varicose vein down in the tarsal tunnel, strip out that vein, check for any other problems that should be dealt with, cut the calcaneal branch of the nerve, and close it all back up again. (Of course, when she cuts the flexor retinaculum to take out the vein, that will be a tarsal tunnel release.)

How are YOU doing after your ESWT? Can you tell any difference yet, positive or negative? What was your pain level before the procedure, as opposed to now??? Do you have a good feeling about it?

-- Sharon

Re: Carmen - varicose veins.

Carmen on 5/28/02 at 17:14 (085501)

Wow that sounds involved. At this point just tell your family doc to send you there...why wait and make you suffer more?
I am doing okay...I can't really tell anything fromthe eSWT yet....I had a very busy week right after and overdid it. So when things settle down to normal again I will have a better idea.
The funny thing is I had NO pain AT ALL from Friday-Weds. (a small pulling sensation but that was only when stretching the hamstrings) and then WHAM! Weds. bad burning wearing the orthotics. NOW I can't even put them on. couldn't walk without them now I can't put them on at all.
They kill me
BUT the birks I have been wearing....cause the inside of my ankles to feel weird....kind of like Tarsal Tunnel sounds like it feels....but no pain. and it only started AFTER I started wearing the birks. It's so weird!!!!!
I am icing the ankles..it's bilateral...both started feeling the same way at exactly the same time.
Probably the pressure on the fascia from wearing such a flat shoe as a birk. after wearing orthotics.
I don't know...next I am going to have to crawl everywhere I guess...I am running out of shoes.
thanks for asking though. :o)

Re: Carmen - varicose veins.

Sharon W on 5/28/02 at 17:23 (085503)

Carmen,

Do you think the problem tolerating your orthotics could be related to swelling or some such, from the ESWT? Just a thought.

I guess you can't really even ICE, at this point, can you?

-- Sharon

Re: Carmen - varicose veins.

Carmen on 5/28/02 at 17:43 (085505)

Just the ankles I ice....my feet don't hurt unless I wear the orthotics. I only had the ESWT on the rt foot...so what's my left foot's excuse for beaing a pain in the ass? ;o)
I definitely think last week was overdone on all areas.....!!!
kids, moving, cleaning, laundry, company, shopping, walking miles...ugh.
But this new ankle thing has me concerned.

Re: Nerves

Rich on 5/28/02 at 21:26 (085528)

Boy, Not really what I wanted to hear....

I remember when we got our driver's licenses, mom never went on errands again! We loved it!! Good luck letting go a bit!

Rich

Re: Carmen - overdoing?

Sharon W on 5/28/02 at 21:35 (085533)

Carmen,

Yes, OUCH, I CAN imagine how your feet might feel after all of THAT!! You have had a very difficult couple of weeks, and even though being with the kids was obviously a joyful event, I'm sure they put LOTS of stress on your still-healing feet -- BOTH of them!

So, you have a point, and the new ankle pain is probably temporary, just the result of overdoing it!

Please, if you possibly can, take out a few minutes just for yourself, do some deep breathing, and RELAX...

-- Sharon

Re: Sharon W.

john h on 5/28/02 at 21:48 (085543)

You can have vericose veins that you cannot see outwardly and in particular you can have one in the tarsal tunnel causing tarsal tunnel syndrome.

Re: To John

Sharon W on 5/28/02 at 22:50 (085563)

John,

Yes, that is EXACTLY what is happening. The main vein in the tarsal tunnel, the posterior tibial vein, is varicose, compressing the posterior tibial nerve inside the tarsal tunnel (which as you probably know is covered by tough connective tissue that is NOT elastic and will not expand to accomodate swelling).

My varicose veins cannot be seen from the surface of my skin.

Thanks for your response; I appreciate your concern.

-- Sharon

Re: Sharon W.

Sharon W on 5/28/02 at 09:48 (085439)

Carmen,

You're right; there definitely IS a time for making sure the right doctors have been seen and the right tests has been done and everything has been checked out, that NEEDED to be checked out -- but I think there is also a time to trust and accept your diagnosis, whatever it may be, and focus on taking a POSITIVE attitude toward the appropriate treatment rather than continuing to second-guess everything.

(Of course, even then, if at some point you develop NEW symptoms, new tests and new Dr. visits may be in order...)

In my case, unfortunately, TTS and PF have been pretty well established, all the usual 'conservative treatments' have been attempted, and in fact we are now planning a TTS release. But I am STILL in the testing phase with another problem that my TTS brought to light: varicose veins...

Sigh.

-- Sharon

Re: Sharon W.

Carmen on 5/28/02 at 14:06 (085461)

Oh dear....I'm sorry. but you awlays remain positive too Sharon...and that's a plus!
Have you tried ART for the tarsal Tunnel? It works miracles for Carpal tunnel....thought I'd ask.
Keep us posted. I will be wishing the best for you.

Re: Sharon W.

Sharon W on 5/28/02 at 15:41 (085476)

Carmen,

Thanks for asking.

Actually, I DON'T always remain positive, I just don't like to write about my black moods.

About ART: you know that I was interested in it. But there is no ART practicioner close by -- and besides, I don't think there is any way ART could solve my main problem.

We know for sure is that the posterior tibial vein is distended (varicose), putting pressure on the posterior tibial nerve (inside the tarsal tunnel, where there is NO room for expansion -- but I'm sure you know about all that). That vein showed up clearly swollen on my MRI back in December. Once veins are varicose, they don't STOP being varicose; it means the valves in them that keep the blood flowing back toward the heart have beome incompetent. Compression hose can keep vein from being quite so distended but the only way to REALLY keep a varicose vein from swelling up and occupying space, is to remove it.

Sorry, I'm sure was more information than you needed.

-- Sharon

Re: Sharon W.

Rich on 5/28/02 at 15:54 (085478)

Sharon, I don't mean to butt in here, I just wanted to ask if you had ever had a varicose vein removed? My dad did and it helped tremendously! He's currently wearing that lovely hose due to knee replacement surgery. Too cute!

I'm beginning to think I have some additional problems too...the only test we never did was on the nerves. Worried that's where I'm headed next. :(

Rich

Re: Sharon W.

Carmen on 5/28/02 at 16:04 (085481)

Yes Varicose veins can bea bear....I have read on them and heard about them. Removing them has been said to solve all kinds of problems though. Are you removing it before the TTS surgery? I would try that one first...you just never know what could happen.
I was just brainstorming about the ART or Myofascial Release b/c I have work on the PTT during my sessions to relieve nerve compression in my feet due to inflammation. Sigh...I wish I could help.
I'm sorry you are having trouble though....I know what you mean about black moods. I had one in the car the other day. Just a poor me moment and boy do I hate those b/c my life could be sooooo much worse!
keep me posted on your condition.

Re: Nerves

Sharon W on 5/28/02 at 16:12 (085488)

Rich,

By all means, I think it is worth it to get your nerves checked out. So many of the symptoms for PF and tarsal tunnel syndrome are the SAME, that even a good, experienced specialist can have trouble at times in distinguishing between them without nerve conduction studies being done. The nerve tests certainly aren't FUN, but they don't take very long to do and afterwards, you KNOW whether your nerves are slowed, or not...

Yes, stripping out that varicose vein is EXACTLY what my pod has in mind. But since it's IN THE TARSAL TUNNEL, she first has to cut the band of tough, non-elastic connective tissue that covers and seals the tarsal tunnel, in order to be able to get the vein out of there. And that's called a 'tarsal tunnel release'...

-- Sharon

Re: Nerves

Rich on 5/28/02 at 16:31 (085493)

With my history, I'm just scared of taking that step. The cam walker didn't help and possible caused more harm than good. I'm having a different pain up the back of my heel that I'm afraid might be tendonitis. And I now feel an odd pain if my foot dangles. It didn't hurt to drive before and now I have shooting pains up the inside of my heel/ankle. Oh, well, just another day in the life of....

About that vein, dad did great once that vein was stripped. He's gone on to have both knee replacements done and is doing great. He was diagnosed as a diabetic a couple of years back, so we watch him very closely.

Has your procedure been scheduled yet? Keep me posted and in the meantime, I will keep praying....

Richelle

Re: Nerves

Sharon W on 5/28/02 at 16:44 (085494)

Rich,

Thanks, I appreciate that. No, the procedure hasn't been scheduled yet -- my husband can't drive because of an eye problem, and that means our 16 year old daughter will have to get her liscence so she can do the driving while I'm out of commission! (My pod is talking about putting me in a cast for at least a month, and then I'll probably be in something like a walker, or crutches, for a few weeks, and in the meanwhile SOMEBODY will have to be able to run errands and take people to meetings and drive me to doctors, PT, etc...)

I hate to tell you this, but the 'new' pains you describe sound almost EXACTLY like some of my tarsal tunnel syndrome symptoms. I get a weird tingling, vaguely painful, when my foot dangles. And sometimes I get pain shooting up the back of my calf -- that's where the posterior tibial nerve goes to, the one in the tarsal tunnel. And of course, shooting pains up the inside of the ankle are a classic symptom for TTS...

-- Sharon

Re: Carmen - varicose veins.

Sharon W on 5/28/02 at 17:07 (085499)

Carmen,

Actually, I don't know how bad it is yet but I do know that I have more than that ONE varicose vein. I had an ultrasound done on one of my veins (NOT the same one as in the tarsal tunnel) and I know that the result was abnormal, but I haven't seen my family doctor about the results yet. My guess is that when I see her next week she will probably order MORE tests... Or perhaps she will just send me on to a vascular surgeon -- that's what I'm HOPING she will do.

But so far, what we have planned is for my pod to put on a tourniquet, cut the flexor retinaculum that holds that varicose vein down in the tarsal tunnel, strip out that vein, check for any other problems that should be dealt with, cut the calcaneal branch of the nerve, and close it all back up again. (Of course, when she cuts the flexor retinaculum to take out the vein, that will be a tarsal tunnel release.)

How are YOU doing after your ESWT? Can you tell any difference yet, positive or negative? What was your pain level before the procedure, as opposed to now??? Do you have a good feeling about it?

-- Sharon

Re: Carmen - varicose veins.

Carmen on 5/28/02 at 17:14 (085501)

Wow that sounds involved. At this point just tell your family doc to send you there...why wait and make you suffer more?
I am doing okay...I can't really tell anything fromthe eSWT yet....I had a very busy week right after and overdid it. So when things settle down to normal again I will have a better idea.
The funny thing is I had NO pain AT ALL from Friday-Weds. (a small pulling sensation but that was only when stretching the hamstrings) and then WHAM! Weds. bad burning wearing the orthotics. NOW I can't even put them on. couldn't walk without them now I can't put them on at all.
They kill me
BUT the birks I have been wearing....cause the inside of my ankles to feel weird....kind of like Tarsal Tunnel sounds like it feels....but no pain. and it only started AFTER I started wearing the birks. It's so weird!!!!!
I am icing the ankles..it's bilateral...both started feeling the same way at exactly the same time.
Probably the pressure on the fascia from wearing such a flat shoe as a birk. after wearing orthotics.
I don't know...next I am going to have to crawl everywhere I guess...I am running out of shoes.
thanks for asking though. :o)

Re: Carmen - varicose veins.

Sharon W on 5/28/02 at 17:23 (085503)

Carmen,

Do you think the problem tolerating your orthotics could be related to swelling or some such, from the ESWT? Just a thought.

I guess you can't really even ICE, at this point, can you?

-- Sharon

Re: Carmen - varicose veins.

Carmen on 5/28/02 at 17:43 (085505)

Just the ankles I ice....my feet don't hurt unless I wear the orthotics. I only had the ESWT on the rt foot...so what's my left foot's excuse for beaing a pain in the ass? ;o)
I definitely think last week was overdone on all areas.....!!!
kids, moving, cleaning, laundry, company, shopping, walking miles...ugh.
But this new ankle thing has me concerned.

Re: Nerves

Rich on 5/28/02 at 21:26 (085528)

Boy, Not really what I wanted to hear....

I remember when we got our driver's licenses, mom never went on errands again! We loved it!! Good luck letting go a bit!

Rich

Re: Carmen - overdoing?

Sharon W on 5/28/02 at 21:35 (085533)

Carmen,

Yes, OUCH, I CAN imagine how your feet might feel after all of THAT!! You have had a very difficult couple of weeks, and even though being with the kids was obviously a joyful event, I'm sure they put LOTS of stress on your still-healing feet -- BOTH of them!

So, you have a point, and the new ankle pain is probably temporary, just the result of overdoing it!

Please, if you possibly can, take out a few minutes just for yourself, do some deep breathing, and RELAX...

-- Sharon

Re: Sharon W.

john h on 5/28/02 at 21:48 (085543)

You can have vericose veins that you cannot see outwardly and in particular you can have one in the tarsal tunnel causing tarsal tunnel syndrome.

Re: To John

Sharon W on 5/28/02 at 22:50 (085563)

John,

Yes, that is EXACTLY what is happening. The main vein in the tarsal tunnel, the posterior tibial vein, is varicose, compressing the posterior tibial nerve inside the tarsal tunnel (which as you probably know is covered by tough connective tissue that is NOT elastic and will not expand to accomodate swelling).

My varicose veins cannot be seen from the surface of my skin.

Thanks for your response; I appreciate your concern.

-- Sharon