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Scott can you share what you found sofar? (eom)

Posted by Carmen on 6/12/02 at 18:10 (087354)

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Re: Scott can you share what you found sofar? (eom)

Scott R on 6/13/02 at 11:59 (087468)

I almost missed this message. Apprently my 'trigger word' feature doesn't work if the word is in the subject heading. Found what? Stuff on trigger points? I haven't had time to read all the posts, just the ones that get sent to my email.

Re: Scott can you share what you found sofar? (eom)

Carmen on 6/13/02 at 13:08 (087477)

Yes stuff on trigger points nad how it may relate to foot pain.
You said ' i wasn't able to find more information on it. If there is published literature about it in a good journal or two, or if one of our doctors could vouch for it, I would be more inclined to believe it'
So I thought if it was worth it to help anyone you would let us know.
Just checking in with you to see what ya got so far.

Re: Scott can you share what you found sofar? (eom)

Scott R on 6/14/02 at 17:28 (087624)

Carmen, I didn't look anything up, I was hoping somone else wuold do some leg work like search medline http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi

I did look into it as much as the internet allowed a few years ago after a doctor posted to the doctor's board, but I felt like it was a big subject that was hardly, if ever, mentioned for heel pain and that i couldn't mention in the book. Here's an nice general abstract. Medline returned a 300 or maybe it was 700 abstracts, which is a lot. Only one had the word 'heel' somewhere in it.

Trigger points are discrete, focal, hyperirritable spots located in a taut band of skeletal muscle. They produce pain locally and in a referred pattern and often accompany chronic musculoskeletal disorders. Acute trauma or repetitive microtrauma may lead to the development of stress on muscle fibers and the formation of trigger points. Patients may have regional, persistent pain resulting in a decreased range of motion in the affected muscles. These include muscles used to maintain body posture, such as those in the neck, shoulders, and pelvic girdle. Trigger points may also manifest as tension headache, tinnitus, temporomandibular joint pain, decreased range of motion in the legs, and low back pain. Palpation of a hypersensitive bundle or nodule of muscle fiber of harder than normal consistency is the physical finding typically associated with a trigger point. Palpation of the trigger point will elicit pain directly over the affected area and/or cause radiation of pain toward a zone of reference and a local twitch response. Various modalities, such as the Spray and Stretch technique, ultrasonography, manipulative therapy and injection, are used to inactivate trigger points. Trigger-point injection has been shown to be one of the most effective treatment modalities to inactivate trigger points and provide prompt relief of symptoms.

Re: Scott can you share what you found sofar? (eom)

Carmen on 6/14/02 at 20:08 (087645)

sigh..oh well. I guess I did my part...all the leg work was there for you to look into in the past post...no work required. It was recent with a lot of information about feet, heels Plantar fasciits and more. C'est la vie. My Karma is covered.
thanks

Re: Scott can you share what you found sofar? (eom)

Scott R on 6/14/02 at 20:34 (087647)

As i was implying, 2 sentences from from an expert on trigger points without references isn't enough for me to include it in the book unless an expert in heel pain or at least a patient concurs. The way they refer to the problems with heel pain is no proof that trigger points are relavent to heel pain. I think the moon is the cause in those cases because i wrote a book on it and no one can prove the contrary.

Re: Scott can you share what you found sofar? (eom)

Carmen on 6/15/02 at 08:15 (087663)

I am assuming you didn't read the links, look into the book or investigate.
That's fine. This was just what I needed to permanently boot MYSELF from this board. It seems you think people are happy with the same old information...and that's fine too. Until it continues to have NO positive effect on their health....and people's conditions never change. Maybe then tape and heel lifts won't sound as good, failed surgeries will continue to draw money out of their bank accounts while families continue to suffer loss of income and quality of life. But wouldn't it be nice if someone offered them an alternative diagnosis and a possbile answer to why their calves, feet and back hurt simultaneously...so they might have a life again?
Whatever your reasoning Scott for brushing off the information provided I hope it's a good enough excuse so you can say 'I did EVERYthing I could to look into something that may possibly help people. I started this board for that reason...and I KNOW I have done my best.'
If you can say that to yourself....than kudos to you. If failing to consider this a possiblity is out of pure laziness, lack of interest and just arrogance than I am sorry for those who could gain from it.
This is not a MEAN post by the way....just telling it like it is for once.
Thanks for the months of support.....but this is where I give up believing you have the best interest of these on this board people in mind. I geuinely cared to help. period. It's not just you ignoring the information I provided....it's many many many things you say on the sly that many people don't even catch...
You are not a hero for providing this site...you're just a person. A regular person like the rest of us. You're just lucky enough to have healed. Plain and simple.

Re: Scott can you share what you found sofar? (eom)

Scott R on 6/15/02 at 08:52 (087664)

Like I said, I was not able to find any scientific information (i.e. peer-reviewed literature, preferably from a good journal and/or a foot journal) that related trigger points to heel spurs or plantar fasciitis. Your first four links didn't even contain the word 'heel'. Your 5th link did, but it wasn't really relevant. The 6th link, a website designed by an Australian student as a research project did actually contain pictures relating triger points to areas around the heel. I think one of the pictures indicated area of pain around the front and bottom of the heel. I didn't see any mcomment that it mimics PF or HS and his references are clumped together so you can't see who supposedly claims trigger points have something to do with the heel.

Like i said, I can probably put together more proof that the moon causes heel pain than trigger points. I didn't buy the bok, bt I haven't bought an astrology book either. The book is long enough and I need to filter out stuff I think has too high a probability of being a wild goose chase.

Re: Scott can you share what you found sofar? (eom)

Mahatmelissama on 6/15/02 at 14:41 (087690)

Carmen, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
My goodness, why do you find it necessary to tell Scott he ain't a hero?

Re: Scott can you share what you found sofar? (eom)

Scott R on 6/13/02 at 11:59 (087468)

I almost missed this message. Apprently my 'trigger word' feature doesn't work if the word is in the subject heading. Found what? Stuff on trigger points? I haven't had time to read all the posts, just the ones that get sent to my email.

Re: Scott can you share what you found sofar? (eom)

Carmen on 6/13/02 at 13:08 (087477)

Yes stuff on trigger points nad how it may relate to foot pain.
You said ' i wasn't able to find more information on it. If there is published literature about it in a good journal or two, or if one of our doctors could vouch for it, I would be more inclined to believe it'
So I thought if it was worth it to help anyone you would let us know.
Just checking in with you to see what ya got so far.

Re: Scott can you share what you found sofar? (eom)

Scott R on 6/14/02 at 17:28 (087624)

Carmen, I didn't look anything up, I was hoping somone else wuold do some leg work like search medline http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi

I did look into it as much as the internet allowed a few years ago after a doctor posted to the doctor's board, but I felt like it was a big subject that was hardly, if ever, mentioned for heel pain and that i couldn't mention in the book. Here's an nice general abstract. Medline returned a 300 or maybe it was 700 abstracts, which is a lot. Only one had the word 'heel' somewhere in it.

Trigger points are discrete, focal, hyperirritable spots located in a taut band of skeletal muscle. They produce pain locally and in a referred pattern and often accompany chronic musculoskeletal disorders. Acute trauma or repetitive microtrauma may lead to the development of stress on muscle fibers and the formation of trigger points. Patients may have regional, persistent pain resulting in a decreased range of motion in the affected muscles. These include muscles used to maintain body posture, such as those in the neck, shoulders, and pelvic girdle. Trigger points may also manifest as tension headache, tinnitus, temporomandibular joint pain, decreased range of motion in the legs, and low back pain. Palpation of a hypersensitive bundle or nodule of muscle fiber of harder than normal consistency is the physical finding typically associated with a trigger point. Palpation of the trigger point will elicit pain directly over the affected area and/or cause radiation of pain toward a zone of reference and a local twitch response. Various modalities, such as the Spray and Stretch technique, ultrasonography, manipulative therapy and injection, are used to inactivate trigger points. Trigger-point injection has been shown to be one of the most effective treatment modalities to inactivate trigger points and provide prompt relief of symptoms.

Re: Scott can you share what you found sofar? (eom)

Carmen on 6/14/02 at 20:08 (087645)

sigh..oh well. I guess I did my part...all the leg work was there for you to look into in the past post...no work required. It was recent with a lot of information about feet, heels Plantar fasciits and more. C'est la vie. My Karma is covered.
thanks

Re: Scott can you share what you found sofar? (eom)

Scott R on 6/14/02 at 20:34 (087647)

As i was implying, 2 sentences from from an expert on trigger points without references isn't enough for me to include it in the book unless an expert in heel pain or at least a patient concurs. The way they refer to the problems with heel pain is no proof that trigger points are relavent to heel pain. I think the moon is the cause in those cases because i wrote a book on it and no one can prove the contrary.

Re: Scott can you share what you found sofar? (eom)

Carmen on 6/15/02 at 08:15 (087663)

I am assuming you didn't read the links, look into the book or investigate.
That's fine. This was just what I needed to permanently boot MYSELF from this board. It seems you think people are happy with the same old information...and that's fine too. Until it continues to have NO positive effect on their health....and people's conditions never change. Maybe then tape and heel lifts won't sound as good, failed surgeries will continue to draw money out of their bank accounts while families continue to suffer loss of income and quality of life. But wouldn't it be nice if someone offered them an alternative diagnosis and a possbile answer to why their calves, feet and back hurt simultaneously...so they might have a life again?
Whatever your reasoning Scott for brushing off the information provided I hope it's a good enough excuse so you can say 'I did EVERYthing I could to look into something that may possibly help people. I started this board for that reason...and I KNOW I have done my best.'
If you can say that to yourself....than kudos to you. If failing to consider this a possiblity is out of pure laziness, lack of interest and just arrogance than I am sorry for those who could gain from it.
This is not a MEAN post by the way....just telling it like it is for once.
Thanks for the months of support.....but this is where I give up believing you have the best interest of these on this board people in mind. I geuinely cared to help. period. It's not just you ignoring the information I provided....it's many many many things you say on the sly that many people don't even catch...
You are not a hero for providing this site...you're just a person. A regular person like the rest of us. You're just lucky enough to have healed. Plain and simple.

Re: Scott can you share what you found sofar? (eom)

Scott R on 6/15/02 at 08:52 (087664)

Like I said, I was not able to find any scientific information (i.e. peer-reviewed literature, preferably from a good journal and/or a foot journal) that related trigger points to heel spurs or plantar fasciitis. Your first four links didn't even contain the word 'heel'. Your 5th link did, but it wasn't really relevant. The 6th link, a website designed by an Australian student as a research project did actually contain pictures relating triger points to areas around the heel. I think one of the pictures indicated area of pain around the front and bottom of the heel. I didn't see any mcomment that it mimics PF or HS and his references are clumped together so you can't see who supposedly claims trigger points have something to do with the heel.

Like i said, I can probably put together more proof that the moon causes heel pain than trigger points. I didn't buy the bok, bt I haven't bought an astrology book either. The book is long enough and I need to filter out stuff I think has too high a probability of being a wild goose chase.

Re: Scott can you share what you found sofar? (eom)

Mahatmelissama on 6/15/02 at 14:41 (087690)

Carmen, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
My goodness, why do you find it necessary to tell Scott he ain't a hero?