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Very disappointed in the direction of recent posts!

Posted by Amy in Va Bch on 8/16/02 at 12:55 (092664)

This is my first time posting. Unfortunately, I am someone suffering from multiple medical problems and can only address one problem at a time. Now it is time for me to get with it and address severe sacroilliitis which is being compounded (or perhaps precipitated) by PF. Actually, the far greater pain is in my left-lower back.But my orthopaedist and osteopath say the heel pain must be addressed FIRST.

I was diagnosed with PF (R heel) by an orthopaedist in June 2001. I have been through all of the conservative treatments; PT x 2; taping, heat and ice applications, myofascial release, mini-massage, ultrasound, steroid injections x 2 and stretches - weight bearing and non-weight bearing, etc...

I have been reading this board for several months to get information from individuals who describe their pain and their experiences. I am very interested in the extracorporeal shock wave treatment and the improvement of the PF pain. That is why I am here. I come here to learn from others who share my pain experience and to rejoice when I read about someone whose pain is reduced or even eliminated! No, my insurance does not cover it. I wish it did. I will present my documentation to try to get them to reimburse me. I just know I do not want invasive surgery and this seems to be the 'only game in town.'

I understand pain very well. I also understand that along with suffering from chronic pain there is almost always the added component of depression, on one level or another. Couple that with the frustration of seeking help from doctor after doctor, participating in treatment after treatment, spending hours researching the physical ailment, and HURTING, anyone would be challenged just to eek through the day! So how we feel affects how we deal with others. However, we should not let the pain rule our behavior. The person we hurt the most is the one we see in the mirror and that does NOT ease our pain.

The real danger comes when you cease being a 'person with pain' and you become a 'pain with a person.' Your overall attitude becomes negative and a very suspicious nature is develops. In short, you become a miserable malcontent! Let's face it, some people enjoy controversy. They are not 'happy' unless they are miserable and stirring something up all of the time. The term often used is this: 'excited misery.' The posture is one challenging another's intelligence with mini-debates on this forum acts to relieve boredom, vent anger, and boost the poster's low self-esteem. Argumentative people are miserable people and see the worst in everything around them. That is just the plain, simple, unadulterated truth.

I do not find recent banter informational nor uplifting. I am actually embarrased to read some things posted visiting the site last night. I do not think it is appropriate to the message board. It serves no good purpose. It diminishes the value of this message board and that is not right for those of us who honestly seek to learn about this treatment. Otherwise, my advice is join a debate team, contact the FDA, contact other doctors to spread around all of that good will among all caregivers providing this treatment, write Dr. Z privately or call him if you must, or seek out pain managment treatment & professional counseling. Perhaps a good anti-anxiety medication would be beneficial to you. It is not good to stay wound up tighter than a clock all of the time. Your PF is the smallest of your problems, you need to address your very poor attitude.

If you will, go to sleepnet.com. Now that is a message board with purpose! I had UP3 (uvulopaltopharnygoplasty) surgery following a non-successful use of a CPAP unit. I found this site wonderful. The posters are individuals suffering from a condition who share their experiences and discuss surgical treatments, aftercare, medication, and how their life has been affected by their sleep disorders. I found information, support, daily followups from those having had surgery, postop menus, some provide specific medical care facilities and other valuable suggestions. Yes, they discussed the success rates for their particular surgeries. However, debates & cynicism are not found on this board. It is one thing to present information and ask questions but over and over and over is ridiculous. And the overriding attitude is 'I know something you don't know: nanny-nanny-boo-boo! I am right and you are wrong' What a snore!

So, maybe I got spoiled by going to a message board that was a saving grace for me and many others. I found a site that gives just what I needed! What am I looking for now? Simple:

1. Postings from individuals who have had the ESWT and their experience.
How improved at 3 months, 6 months and 12 months? Where was the
treatment conducted? How many treatments were required?

2. Among those with PF, does anyone else have pain elsewhere that is
exacerbated due to the PF?

3. Post-procedure followup from patients would be invaluable.

Finally, when you hurt so badly that you know you don't want to live if you have to feel that way, you won't be debating on a website stirring yourself up and others, you will seek all avenues to gather information to determine whether this procedure IS an option for you or not. Then please post about your experience if you have this procedure done. I want to read that post!!!

Re: me too

elliott on 8/16/02 at 15:11 (092678)

Aside from several somewhat personal attacks appearing here lately, there also are too many negative comments directed against those seeking out FDA studies. One point: an FDA study showing the success rates of a large sample should offer a far more accurate and instantaneous answer to the questions you asked at the bottom of your post than an informal survey of a few people on this board ever could (even though that would be interesting too). As you so eloquently worded it, 'seek all avenues to gather information to determine whether this procedure IS an option for you or not.' ESWT is expensive. Money is a factor, so success rates are a factor. The FDA study may well be the single most useful piece of information around. When I realized I wasn't going to get it (never dreamed it would be that difficult), I stopped asking.

Regarding health insurance and how it relates to ESWT, it has been repeated here, yes, over and over and over again, that that if only ESWT would be covered by insurance, everything in life would be hunky-dory. Well, not if you couldn't afford the insurance in the first place. IMHO a discussion (not hot debate) might help address that repeated claim. Fine if you disagree. You may have a vision of what's proper to talk about here, but it is not necessarily the only one.

Please don't judge so swiftly and negatively people's whole characters; some would say that's not so nice either. I for one am not here to seek debate.

Sorry for your pain; I truly am.

---

Re: me too

Dr. Zuckerman on 8/16/02 at 16:32 (092686)

I don't have the complete report just the summary. Sorry. I did try to answer all of your questions. I really did try

Re: Very disappointed in the direction of recent posts!

Ed Davis, DPM on 8/16/02 at 21:05 (092700)

Amy:

Scott has provided several message boards here in an attempt to deal with different aspects of the subject. There are features of immense value such as the Heel Pain Book written by Scott. You stated that you felt you had 'all' of the conservative treatments but left some of the most important ones out of your list -- compare your list to Scott's. The Heel Pain Book provides an excellent overview of most important facets of the subject -- facts as well as contoversies. The 'search' feature is valuable when attempting to look for specific information or discussions.

Discussions take on a diversity of tones, some negative and some positive. Controversies lead to debates which are enjoyed by some posters but not by others. Take a look at all the features and look at the posts through time to help find useful information.
Ed

Re: Very disappointed in the direction of recent posts!

Pete R on 8/17/02 at 07:31 (092719)

I've had chronic PF and back problems for nearly 2 years and the constant pain is debilitating and depressing. Forgetting my back for the moment, I have seen about 8 different Pod's / physio's for my PF, most of whom have given me no decent advice nor a structured treatment plan. I found this site in April and it has been by far the most educational tool available, both in terms of Scott's book and the comments and help from other posters. I live in England where the info and treatment on PF is very limited. This site hasn't healed me yet, but has given me some hope. For instance, I knew nothing about ESWT, have now had some treatment and will report back on my progress, if any, in due course.

Some people are naturally negative, who wouldn't be with PF, and if they wish to air their grievances / problems, then so be it. We all need an outlet.

Don't knock the site, it keeps the likes of me going that there is a cure out there somewhere.

Re: A design change to hide mean/negative/off-topic posts

Scott R on 8/17/02 at 07:54 (092720)

I have an idea about the 'negative' and 'mean' posts. I could make it where you can select that 'negative', 'mean', or 'off-topic' posts are not listed on your screen. Posters would be required to indicate if their post is one of the above. Not properly marking your post as 'mean' or 'negative' would be a serious violation. All follow-ups to mean or negative posts would automatically be marked the same. Long-timers know how bad the arguments can deteriorate the quality of the message board and stress me out, even if they are entertaining. Please email me at (email removed) or post here in response to let me know what you think about the idea. It would be a checkbox in the posting agreement with one sentence of instructions. I think I'm going to do it. Bad posts haven't really been a problem in the past year, but they certainly do stress me out. This does not apply to libelous posts which are always not approved.

Re: Very disappointed in the direction of recent posts!

Sunny Jacob - Bayshore on 8/17/02 at 09:10 (092729)

Amy in Va Bch:
I also feel subjected to these mini debates and personal attacks.
It is unfortunate that a few people have made this valuable space into a mudslinging arena. Until the real purpose of this message board is reestablished by Scott R. and his editorial team, I have decided to minimize my contribution on the subject of ESWT.

About postings from patients who have had treatments: It is our experience that once the patients achieve pain relief they seldom want to spend their valuable time with writing activities. We see very few direct patient reports on this board, except for some dissatisfied patients.
In our clinic every patient's post ESWT recovery progress is followed up 6 weeks, 12 weeks and 1 year after treatment. To date our own internal statistics gives us a success rate of 86%.

Amy, you are a good writer and expressed your feelings well on this board. As our compliment, if your time allows to visit our clinic, we are more than pleased to give you a free full course of ESWT treatment (excluding air fare, hotel and other expenses), which are estimated to be approx. USD 600.--). (All our patients do get special hotel rates.)
This will also provide you with an opportunity to write on this message board in your own words about the ESWT treatment received from your arrival at the clinic, through treatment and approx. 12 weeks post treatment recovery period. You will have complete freedom without any external influence and no strings attached to write your diary, good or bad.
If acceptable, please contact me: (email removed)

P.S.: Toronto is not a place 'to get stuck in' as someone on this board has said. It is a multicultural city that is worth visiting, clean, safe and with many attractive sightseeing opportunities between treatments.

Re: A design change to hide mean/negative/off-topic posts

Ed Davis, DPM on 8/17/02 at 14:34 (092750)

Scott:
I have sympathy for this poster but feel that the format does not need to be changed based on one complaint. There is more positive than negative stuff on the site and readers have the ability to select the posts they wish to read or not.
Controversies exists in this area and many enjoy the opportunity to understand the nature of those issues and make up their own minds. Many posters here are individuals with difficult, intractable cases so their suffering may be translated into a negative tone -- they need a place to vent, be supported, find individuals with similar problems and find solutions.
Ed

Re: A design change to hide mean/negative/off-topic posts

Julie on 8/17/02 at 15:17 (092758)

Dr Ed is right: I see no need for this change. Plus, it's extremely unlikely that anyone is likely to realise that their post is going to be seen as 'negative', still less 'mean', and flag it accordingly.

Re: Who thinks of his/her own attitude as "negative" or "mean"?

Sharon W on 8/17/02 at 15:56 (092762)

I agree with Julie. Those who are depressed, tend to get into a negative mindset. Chronic pain MAKES people depressed, and one of the most important aspects of this site (in my opinion) is to allow everyone who is suffering, a chance to vent and to discover that there ARE other people in the world who can really understand what they are going through.

So please don't change the policy... people in pain who have begun to lose hope and are beginning to give up on life and to become bitter toward everything in it, probably need these boards MORE than anyone else!

Sharon

Re: WOW!! WHAT AN OFFER!! :))

Sharon W on 8/17/02 at 16:00 (092763)

That is very generous of you. I will be very interested to see what comes of your offer.

Sharon

Re: Very disappointed in the direction of recent posts!

nancy s. on 8/17/02 at 17:52 (092770)

hi amy,

i empathize with you and your post. i think there's a lot of truth in it, and it's refreshing to hear from someone having a really rough time who expresses so well what a person in your situation looks for from this site and how you're affected by the intellectual banter (some of which is not truly intellectual at all, and helpful probably to no one).

i've been here almost three years, and am finally much better -- not perfect, but getting by. i thought i'd lost my life, but it's back in most ways. i'll always have to watch and manage my feet.

i don't post a whole lot anymore, but i always read. you ARE an excellent writer, you have guts, and you have a straightforwardness that is a real breath of fresh air on the eswt board. i hope you'll stay around. this really is a terrific site. negativity creeps in from time to time -- i've seen more than enough, actually, in three years -- but try not to let it discourage you from gathering the info you want and need. there are many truly wonderful posters on this site. and i sense that you have a lot to contribute. you have your eye on the ball.

i hope you'll follow up on sunny's very generous offer. all the best to you, and thank you for your post, from nancy s.

Re: Very disappointed in the direction of recent posts!

john h on 8/17/02 at 20:30 (092783)

Good move Sunny. I am looking forward to hearing about Amy's experience and wish her my very best.

Re: A design change to hide mean/negative/off-topic posts

john h on 8/17/02 at 20:40 (092784)

Scott I weigh in on the side of being prudent on the restrictions of post. You have done an admirable job for these many years. Do not let a couple of questionable post thow you off track. Seems we go in cycles on these things. Having been here from almost the start I do not think I have seen any thing really new in the approach to PF posted in a long time. We have recycled so many ideas over and over. With the advent of new eswt equipment in the states and the debates over treatment protocols with the various machines we are still on the same PF train looking for the magic bullet

Re: A design change to hide mean/negative/off-topic posts

BrianG on 8/17/02 at 22:03 (092787)

I personally don't think it will work. Like others I don't think posters are going to admit their posts are negative. Some people think these posts are due to chronic pain and depression. I don't, I think they are from people with another view of the issues. Just becuase someone may not agree with the majority, please don't blame it on them having chronic pain. I think a lot of it is people just wanting to make sure all sides of an issue get posted. It's called free speech.

Regards
BrianG

Re: Brian

Sharon W on 8/17/02 at 23:41 (092802)

I certainly did NOT mean to imply that all people with chronic pain are bitter and negative, or to imply that all people who are 'mean' or 'negative' suffer from chronic pain. But if you got that impression I'm sure others did too; I modified my post to clarify what I meant.

Actually, I agree with you that much of what Amy was referring to, was a number of recent posts that are about people 'having another view of the issues'.

But I think Scott's suggested plan to hide mean/negative/off-topic subjects could RESULT in inhibiting or even possibly banning people who desperately need to vent their frustrations (including their 'negative' thoughts and feelings) and to find other people who have been through the same kinds of things, others who can accept and understand.

Sharon

Re: regarding getting "stuck" in Toronto

elliott on 8/17/02 at 23:42 (092803)

Actually, I never mentioned Toronto. What I said was getting ESWT treatment at Bayshore, where someone from the States would have to remain during treatment, i.e. be 'stuck' there for five days away from home and family, incurring additional expense for lodging and the like, a reason often given on this board for ambivalence towards Bayshore. (BTW, where expense is a primary reason against, touring lovely Toronto daily--foot permitting--would only add more to the costs.) By 'Hotel Bayshore', I had in mind something more like a free bed in the room next door to the ESWT room. I meant it sincerely. My posts are often portrayed in the worst possible light. Oh well.

--

Re: A design change to hide mean/negative/off-topic posts

Scott R on 8/18/02 at 07:27 (092817)

Ya'll seem unanimous in not thinking the change is a good, so I won't do it. That'll save me some programming work.

Re: My 2 cents (well about 1 cent with the exchange rate)

wendyn on 8/18/02 at 10:34 (092829)

Scott, I've been away for almost 2 weeks so I've missed the specific posts that are being referred to. I probably won't have time to go back and read them all, but I'm pretty sure I can figure out what Amy is talking about.

(Amy, I hope you will post more often here).

Like John and Nancy - I feel like I've been here forever.

I think that the people who tend to post 'mean' or 'negative' posts, are unlikely to view them as such. I'm sure that there are at least a few of my posts that could be deemed mean or negative, even if that's not the way I intended them to come across. _Most_ of the the debate that goes on tends to be intelligent and worthwhile.

I don't think it's worth it to change the entire board format to 'control' a few people. In the past, problems with any one particular individual have been resolved by removing that individual from the board. If things gets out of control again (and you're bombarded with complaints), then you've always got that option available to you.

For us, it helps to keep in mind what Amy pointed out. Most of the purely argumentative/negative posts don't serve any real purpose, and they are posted as some form of attention-getting behaviour. The best way to deal with them is to not feed the behaviour, and just move on.

Re: sarcastic humor

Ed Davis, DPM on 8/18/02 at 15:39 (092850)

Elliott:
I grew up in New Jersey, an area where sarcastic humor is well understood and appreciated. I started practice in West Virginia as a National Health Service Corps. scholarship recipient. There was absolutley no understanding of sarcastic humor in that area, everything taken literally.
I was surprised when my statements were misinterpreted and really had to be careful.

My wife is from Minnesota. We visited my parents in NJ on a couple of occasions and she really seemed to think that New Jerseyites were evil.
She had no understanding of sarcasm at all and I found myself doing the duties of 'translator.'
Ed

Re: Calling Amy, are you still reading?

BrianG on 8/18/02 at 23:41 (092871)

All these replys, and not a peep from Amy? Scott, could you check, to see if indeed this was a new poster, or just someone stirring up the sh** pot? Here people have poured their hearts out to her, she's been offered free ESWT, and still nothing.......

Just wondering
BrianG

Re: Calling Brian, yes, I am still here.

Amy in Va Bch on 8/19/02 at 00:27 (092872)

Brian,

Yes. I am still here. I just decided to let my message 'play out' before responding to anyone else's post. Along with dealing with chronic cervical-spine pain following 2 diskectomies (1988 & 1990) at C-5/6 and a spinal fusion with resulting arthritis pain, the sacroiliitis and heel pain, I have a husband in the USN and he is at the one month mark out on a Med cruise. With the news about recent events in the Mid East, I have been more concerned with his ship becoming a front-line presence in the Gulf and my attention has been on our CPO wives support group rather than this message board for the last few days.

Due to the pain I am not able to sit for hours on end reading past posts and getting all of the information necessary to make an informed decision about anything. I will indeed 'look before I leap.' I read Sunny (Bayshore) post and I do intend to contact her, via telephone, during a regular work week. Her post was on Friday I believe. I imagine she was off this past weekend, ya think?

Indeed, I am a (real) new poster. I am not always able to respond as quickly to things as others might. I will be back to post again. However, I have many, many questions to ask. I am anxious to be free from this pain and do not want to be in the same place I am 2 years from now, still reading this message board. I will get this treatment done. I am just trying to determine which ESWT treatment makes more sense and to whom to entrust my heel...this sacroilliac pain is absolutely excruciating!

Scott, my email is included if you wish to contact me. Thanks.

Re: Welcome

BrianG on 8/19/02 at 12:13 (092906)

Good to hear from you Amy. I'm happy to hear your husband is out there making sure we continue to stay a free country. Best wishes to him, and to you, for your heels also. The free ESWT treatment is a real bonus, I hope you get to take advantage of it. It's the best thing going, for PF at the moment.

Good luck
BrianG

Re: Price of ESWT -treament in US/Canada

Late M. on 8/20/02 at 04:04 (092964)

Hi all,
I'm about to take ESWT for my tennis-elbow and I'm just curious to know what's the price of an ESWT -treatment in US/Canada, I'm european (Finland) and the cost here is around US$ 130/time.

Sorry that I jumped off the earlier topic for such a less important thing than money...

Thanks!
Late

Re: Very disappointed in the direction of recent posts!

Sunny Jacob - Bayshore on 8/20/02 at 09:29 (092982)

To Amy at V Bch:
Thank you for your telephon message. I did try several times to reach you. Your line has caller interception and says that 'the party is not available'.
Please send me an email to (email removed). This is my personal email and we can correspond via email.
Thanks.
Sunny

Re: me too

elliott on 8/16/02 at 15:11 (092678)

Aside from several somewhat personal attacks appearing here lately, there also are too many negative comments directed against those seeking out FDA studies. One point: an FDA study showing the success rates of a large sample should offer a far more accurate and instantaneous answer to the questions you asked at the bottom of your post than an informal survey of a few people on this board ever could (even though that would be interesting too). As you so eloquently worded it, 'seek all avenues to gather information to determine whether this procedure IS an option for you or not.' ESWT is expensive. Money is a factor, so success rates are a factor. The FDA study may well be the single most useful piece of information around. When I realized I wasn't going to get it (never dreamed it would be that difficult), I stopped asking.

Regarding health insurance and how it relates to ESWT, it has been repeated here, yes, over and over and over again, that that if only ESWT would be covered by insurance, everything in life would be hunky-dory. Well, not if you couldn't afford the insurance in the first place. IMHO a discussion (not hot debate) might help address that repeated claim. Fine if you disagree. You may have a vision of what's proper to talk about here, but it is not necessarily the only one.

Please don't judge so swiftly and negatively people's whole characters; some would say that's not so nice either. I for one am not here to seek debate.

Sorry for your pain; I truly am.

---

Re: me too

Dr. Zuckerman on 8/16/02 at 16:32 (092686)

I don't have the complete report just the summary. Sorry. I did try to answer all of your questions. I really did try

Re: Very disappointed in the direction of recent posts!

Ed Davis, DPM on 8/16/02 at 21:05 (092700)

Amy:

Scott has provided several message boards here in an attempt to deal with different aspects of the subject. There are features of immense value such as the Heel Pain Book written by Scott. You stated that you felt you had 'all' of the conservative treatments but left some of the most important ones out of your list -- compare your list to Scott's. The Heel Pain Book provides an excellent overview of most important facets of the subject -- facts as well as contoversies. The 'search' feature is valuable when attempting to look for specific information or discussions.

Discussions take on a diversity of tones, some negative and some positive. Controversies lead to debates which are enjoyed by some posters but not by others. Take a look at all the features and look at the posts through time to help find useful information.
Ed

Re: Very disappointed in the direction of recent posts!

Pete R on 8/17/02 at 07:31 (092719)

I've had chronic PF and back problems for nearly 2 years and the constant pain is debilitating and depressing. Forgetting my back for the moment, I have seen about 8 different Pod's / physio's for my PF, most of whom have given me no decent advice nor a structured treatment plan. I found this site in April and it has been by far the most educational tool available, both in terms of Scott's book and the comments and help from other posters. I live in England where the info and treatment on PF is very limited. This site hasn't healed me yet, but has given me some hope. For instance, I knew nothing about ESWT, have now had some treatment and will report back on my progress, if any, in due course.

Some people are naturally negative, who wouldn't be with PF, and if they wish to air their grievances / problems, then so be it. We all need an outlet.

Don't knock the site, it keeps the likes of me going that there is a cure out there somewhere.

Re: A design change to hide mean/negative/off-topic posts

Scott R on 8/17/02 at 07:54 (092720)

I have an idea about the 'negative' and 'mean' posts. I could make it where you can select that 'negative', 'mean', or 'off-topic' posts are not listed on your screen. Posters would be required to indicate if their post is one of the above. Not properly marking your post as 'mean' or 'negative' would be a serious violation. All follow-ups to mean or negative posts would automatically be marked the same. Long-timers know how bad the arguments can deteriorate the quality of the message board and stress me out, even if they are entertaining. Please email me at (email removed) or post here in response to let me know what you think about the idea. It would be a checkbox in the posting agreement with one sentence of instructions. I think I'm going to do it. Bad posts haven't really been a problem in the past year, but they certainly do stress me out. This does not apply to libelous posts which are always not approved.

Re: Very disappointed in the direction of recent posts!

Sunny Jacob - Bayshore on 8/17/02 at 09:10 (092729)

Amy in Va Bch:
I also feel subjected to these mini debates and personal attacks.
It is unfortunate that a few people have made this valuable space into a mudslinging arena. Until the real purpose of this message board is reestablished by Scott R. and his editorial team, I have decided to minimize my contribution on the subject of ESWT.

About postings from patients who have had treatments: It is our experience that once the patients achieve pain relief they seldom want to spend their valuable time with writing activities. We see very few direct patient reports on this board, except for some dissatisfied patients.
In our clinic every patient's post ESWT recovery progress is followed up 6 weeks, 12 weeks and 1 year after treatment. To date our own internal statistics gives us a success rate of 86%.

Amy, you are a good writer and expressed your feelings well on this board. As our compliment, if your time allows to visit our clinic, we are more than pleased to give you a free full course of ESWT treatment (excluding air fare, hotel and other expenses), which are estimated to be approx. USD 600.--). (All our patients do get special hotel rates.)
This will also provide you with an opportunity to write on this message board in your own words about the ESWT treatment received from your arrival at the clinic, through treatment and approx. 12 weeks post treatment recovery period. You will have complete freedom without any external influence and no strings attached to write your diary, good or bad.
If acceptable, please contact me: (email removed)

P.S.: Toronto is not a place 'to get stuck in' as someone on this board has said. It is a multicultural city that is worth visiting, clean, safe and with many attractive sightseeing opportunities between treatments.

Re: A design change to hide mean/negative/off-topic posts

Ed Davis, DPM on 8/17/02 at 14:34 (092750)

Scott:
I have sympathy for this poster but feel that the format does not need to be changed based on one complaint. There is more positive than negative stuff on the site and readers have the ability to select the posts they wish to read or not.
Controversies exists in this area and many enjoy the opportunity to understand the nature of those issues and make up their own minds. Many posters here are individuals with difficult, intractable cases so their suffering may be translated into a negative tone -- they need a place to vent, be supported, find individuals with similar problems and find solutions.
Ed

Re: A design change to hide mean/negative/off-topic posts

Julie on 8/17/02 at 15:17 (092758)

Dr Ed is right: I see no need for this change. Plus, it's extremely unlikely that anyone is likely to realise that their post is going to be seen as 'negative', still less 'mean', and flag it accordingly.

Re: Who thinks of his/her own attitude as "negative" or "mean"?

Sharon W on 8/17/02 at 15:56 (092762)

I agree with Julie. Those who are depressed, tend to get into a negative mindset. Chronic pain MAKES people depressed, and one of the most important aspects of this site (in my opinion) is to allow everyone who is suffering, a chance to vent and to discover that there ARE other people in the world who can really understand what they are going through.

So please don't change the policy... people in pain who have begun to lose hope and are beginning to give up on life and to become bitter toward everything in it, probably need these boards MORE than anyone else!

Sharon

Re: WOW!! WHAT AN OFFER!! :))

Sharon W on 8/17/02 at 16:00 (092763)

That is very generous of you. I will be very interested to see what comes of your offer.

Sharon

Re: Very disappointed in the direction of recent posts!

nancy s. on 8/17/02 at 17:52 (092770)

hi amy,

i empathize with you and your post. i think there's a lot of truth in it, and it's refreshing to hear from someone having a really rough time who expresses so well what a person in your situation looks for from this site and how you're affected by the intellectual banter (some of which is not truly intellectual at all, and helpful probably to no one).

i've been here almost three years, and am finally much better -- not perfect, but getting by. i thought i'd lost my life, but it's back in most ways. i'll always have to watch and manage my feet.

i don't post a whole lot anymore, but i always read. you ARE an excellent writer, you have guts, and you have a straightforwardness that is a real breath of fresh air on the eswt board. i hope you'll stay around. this really is a terrific site. negativity creeps in from time to time -- i've seen more than enough, actually, in three years -- but try not to let it discourage you from gathering the info you want and need. there are many truly wonderful posters on this site. and i sense that you have a lot to contribute. you have your eye on the ball.

i hope you'll follow up on sunny's very generous offer. all the best to you, and thank you for your post, from nancy s.

Re: Very disappointed in the direction of recent posts!

john h on 8/17/02 at 20:30 (092783)

Good move Sunny. I am looking forward to hearing about Amy's experience and wish her my very best.

Re: A design change to hide mean/negative/off-topic posts

john h on 8/17/02 at 20:40 (092784)

Scott I weigh in on the side of being prudent on the restrictions of post. You have done an admirable job for these many years. Do not let a couple of questionable post thow you off track. Seems we go in cycles on these things. Having been here from almost the start I do not think I have seen any thing really new in the approach to PF posted in a long time. We have recycled so many ideas over and over. With the advent of new eswt equipment in the states and the debates over treatment protocols with the various machines we are still on the same PF train looking for the magic bullet

Re: A design change to hide mean/negative/off-topic posts

BrianG on 8/17/02 at 22:03 (092787)

I personally don't think it will work. Like others I don't think posters are going to admit their posts are negative. Some people think these posts are due to chronic pain and depression. I don't, I think they are from people with another view of the issues. Just becuase someone may not agree with the majority, please don't blame it on them having chronic pain. I think a lot of it is people just wanting to make sure all sides of an issue get posted. It's called free speech.

Regards
BrianG

Re: Brian

Sharon W on 8/17/02 at 23:41 (092802)

I certainly did NOT mean to imply that all people with chronic pain are bitter and negative, or to imply that all people who are 'mean' or 'negative' suffer from chronic pain. But if you got that impression I'm sure others did too; I modified my post to clarify what I meant.

Actually, I agree with you that much of what Amy was referring to, was a number of recent posts that are about people 'having another view of the issues'.

But I think Scott's suggested plan to hide mean/negative/off-topic subjects could RESULT in inhibiting or even possibly banning people who desperately need to vent their frustrations (including their 'negative' thoughts and feelings) and to find other people who have been through the same kinds of things, others who can accept and understand.

Sharon

Re: regarding getting "stuck" in Toronto

elliott on 8/17/02 at 23:42 (092803)

Actually, I never mentioned Toronto. What I said was getting ESWT treatment at Bayshore, where someone from the States would have to remain during treatment, i.e. be 'stuck' there for five days away from home and family, incurring additional expense for lodging and the like, a reason often given on this board for ambivalence towards Bayshore. (BTW, where expense is a primary reason against, touring lovely Toronto daily--foot permitting--would only add more to the costs.) By 'Hotel Bayshore', I had in mind something more like a free bed in the room next door to the ESWT room. I meant it sincerely. My posts are often portrayed in the worst possible light. Oh well.

--

Re: A design change to hide mean/negative/off-topic posts

Scott R on 8/18/02 at 07:27 (092817)

Ya'll seem unanimous in not thinking the change is a good, so I won't do it. That'll save me some programming work.

Re: My 2 cents (well about 1 cent with the exchange rate)

wendyn on 8/18/02 at 10:34 (092829)

Scott, I've been away for almost 2 weeks so I've missed the specific posts that are being referred to. I probably won't have time to go back and read them all, but I'm pretty sure I can figure out what Amy is talking about.

(Amy, I hope you will post more often here).

Like John and Nancy - I feel like I've been here forever.

I think that the people who tend to post 'mean' or 'negative' posts, are unlikely to view them as such. I'm sure that there are at least a few of my posts that could be deemed mean or negative, even if that's not the way I intended them to come across. _Most_ of the the debate that goes on tends to be intelligent and worthwhile.

I don't think it's worth it to change the entire board format to 'control' a few people. In the past, problems with any one particular individual have been resolved by removing that individual from the board. If things gets out of control again (and you're bombarded with complaints), then you've always got that option available to you.

For us, it helps to keep in mind what Amy pointed out. Most of the purely argumentative/negative posts don't serve any real purpose, and they are posted as some form of attention-getting behaviour. The best way to deal with them is to not feed the behaviour, and just move on.

Re: sarcastic humor

Ed Davis, DPM on 8/18/02 at 15:39 (092850)

Elliott:
I grew up in New Jersey, an area where sarcastic humor is well understood and appreciated. I started practice in West Virginia as a National Health Service Corps. scholarship recipient. There was absolutley no understanding of sarcastic humor in that area, everything taken literally.
I was surprised when my statements were misinterpreted and really had to be careful.

My wife is from Minnesota. We visited my parents in NJ on a couple of occasions and she really seemed to think that New Jerseyites were evil.
She had no understanding of sarcasm at all and I found myself doing the duties of 'translator.'
Ed

Re: Calling Amy, are you still reading?

BrianG on 8/18/02 at 23:41 (092871)

All these replys, and not a peep from Amy? Scott, could you check, to see if indeed this was a new poster, or just someone stirring up the sh** pot? Here people have poured their hearts out to her, she's been offered free ESWT, and still nothing.......

Just wondering
BrianG

Re: Calling Brian, yes, I am still here.

Amy in Va Bch on 8/19/02 at 00:27 (092872)

Brian,

Yes. I am still here. I just decided to let my message 'play out' before responding to anyone else's post. Along with dealing with chronic cervical-spine pain following 2 diskectomies (1988 & 1990) at C-5/6 and a spinal fusion with resulting arthritis pain, the sacroiliitis and heel pain, I have a husband in the USN and he is at the one month mark out on a Med cruise. With the news about recent events in the Mid East, I have been more concerned with his ship becoming a front-line presence in the Gulf and my attention has been on our CPO wives support group rather than this message board for the last few days.

Due to the pain I am not able to sit for hours on end reading past posts and getting all of the information necessary to make an informed decision about anything. I will indeed 'look before I leap.' I read Sunny (Bayshore) post and I do intend to contact her, via telephone, during a regular work week. Her post was on Friday I believe. I imagine she was off this past weekend, ya think?

Indeed, I am a (real) new poster. I am not always able to respond as quickly to things as others might. I will be back to post again. However, I have many, many questions to ask. I am anxious to be free from this pain and do not want to be in the same place I am 2 years from now, still reading this message board. I will get this treatment done. I am just trying to determine which ESWT treatment makes more sense and to whom to entrust my heel...this sacroilliac pain is absolutely excruciating!

Scott, my email is included if you wish to contact me. Thanks.

Re: Welcome

BrianG on 8/19/02 at 12:13 (092906)

Good to hear from you Amy. I'm happy to hear your husband is out there making sure we continue to stay a free country. Best wishes to him, and to you, for your heels also. The free ESWT treatment is a real bonus, I hope you get to take advantage of it. It's the best thing going, for PF at the moment.

Good luck
BrianG

Re: Price of ESWT -treament in US/Canada

Late M. on 8/20/02 at 04:04 (092964)

Hi all,
I'm about to take ESWT for my tennis-elbow and I'm just curious to know what's the price of an ESWT -treatment in US/Canada, I'm european (Finland) and the cost here is around US$ 130/time.

Sorry that I jumped off the earlier topic for such a less important thing than money...

Thanks!
Late

Re: Very disappointed in the direction of recent posts!

Sunny Jacob - Bayshore on 8/20/02 at 09:29 (092982)

To Amy at V Bch:
Thank you for your telephon message. I did try several times to reach you. Your line has caller interception and says that 'the party is not available'.
Please send me an email to (email removed). This is my personal email and we can correspond via email.
Thanks.
Sunny