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POST OSSATRON & POST SURGERY RESULTS.....

Posted by cindy e. on 8/30/02 at 08:17 (093955)

JUST TO KEEP YOU ALL INFORMED: AFTER 2 1/2 YEARS OF PF, THEN OSSATRON, I FINALLY HAD TO HAVE REGULAR ENDOSCOPIC PF RELEASE. I ASKED THE DOC IF HE SAW ANY LENGTHENING OF THE FACIA WHILE HE WAS IN THERE, AND HE SAID THERE WAS NONE. I DON'T WANT TO DISCOURAGE ANYONE FROM TRYING THE OSSATRON 1ST THOUGH. I'M GLAD I TRIED IT, I JUST WASN'T ONE OF THE LUCKY ONES IT WORKED FOR. POST-OP, I'M DOING EXTREMELY WELL. NOT HARDLY ANY PAIN AND AM DOING EXACTLY AS THE DOC SAID. 10 MINUTES OF WALKING EVERY HOUR IN A SURGICAL BOOT. CAN'T BELIEVE THE DIFFERENCE JUST 1 WEEK OUT. JUST HAVE TO NOT OVERDO. CINDY E.

Re: POST OSSATRON & POST SURGERY RESULTS.....

Pauline on 8/30/02 at 09:49 (093970)

Cindy,
Glad to hear your doing well post surgery. Please keep us posted especially when that boot comes off.

Re: Just how big is this scope?

BrianG on 8/31/02 at 19:42 (094093)

I'm very surprised your doctor could tell if there was any 'lengthening of the facia', considering how small the scope is. Any comments from the doctors? Is this something that can normally be seen during an EPF?

Glad your doing better, keep us updated.
BrianG

Re: Just how big is this scope?

Dr. Z on 8/31/02 at 20:30 (094098)

I am not sure what is meant by any lengthening of the facia. There is no procedure that I know of that can lengthen the fascia

Re: Just how big is this scope?

cindy e. on 9/01/02 at 13:39 (094142)

THE QUESTION I ASKED THE DOC WHO DID MY PROCEDURE WAS'COULD YOU TELL IF THE OSSATRON TREATMENT DID ANYTHING OR NOT SUCH AS SCAR TISSURE FILL-IN OR WHATEVER?' THE ANSWER WAS THAT HE COULD NOT TELL THAT THE OSSATRON TREATMENT HAD ANY EFFECT. MRS. E.

Re: Just how big is this scope?

Dr. Z on 9/01/02 at 14:21 (094146)

The scope is placed distal to the area where the ossatron treatment was administered. The plantar fascia release isn't at the inserton so yes you can't see the area at all.

Re: Just how big is this scope?

Joe S on 9/02/02 at 10:19 (094207)

You can't see anything but the plantar fascia or fat or muscle. You can't see any lengthening or shortening of the fascia. Even the open procedure you cant really see anything. It's more a 'feel' type of surgery. Some docs like to hear themselves speak when discusing the case with their patients postoperatively. 'Yeah that was the biggest heel spur I've ever encountered'. I wonder how many times this has been said. It's great that you had a good experience with the EPF.

Re: Just how big is this scope?

Joe S on 9/02/02 at 10:20 (094209)

If there was any damage or lengthening whatsoever, the human eye cuold not pick it up. It would be more of a cellular response.

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

Ed Davis, DPM on 9/07/02 at 12:59 (094692)

Dr. Z:

I and several coleagues have contemplated the possibility of a procedure that would lenghten the plantar fascia as opposed to cutting it. Conceptually, this would be the ideal means to relieve plantar fascial tension. The obstacles to the procedure include a potentially large incision on the plantar surface and adherence of the plantar fascia to the intrinsic muscles. The fascia would somehow need to be freed from that adherence since a z-plasty or slide would not work. The adherence problem prevents a minimal incision approach and release of the adherence would be very traumatic.
Ed

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

Pauline on 9/07/02 at 14:07 (094694)

Dr. Davis,
This treatment idea is certainly not without some big obstacles. I wish you could try it on cadavers that could wake up and walk after this procedure was done. New treatments come out of creative thinking, but this procedure sounds pretty radical.

What about a treatment that would actually 'thin' the fascia like you'd pound a piece of meat? If it were to follow what meat does under pressure it would automatically grow larger the thinner it got.

I don't mean smack it around with a 2x4 but thin and stretch it like taffy. Interesting thought????

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

Julie on 9/07/02 at 14:36 (094700)

That's an interesting idea, Pauline, but could it work? The fascia is inelastic, more like tendon, or ligament, than like elastic muscle, or like meat, which is muscle. If it doesn't stretch, could it thin with pressure? Just wondering.

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

Dr. Z on 9/07/02 at 15:28 (094709)

This is what happens with ESWT. You have an injury to just the thick, disease areas. The body absorbs and then replaces the tissue with new healthly stronger tissue. Am I one the same page as you guys?

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

Pauline on 9/07/02 at 22:04 (094731)

Julie,
They do it to steel, so why not fascia? Would the patient survive the treatment? Now that's the real question.

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

Pauline on 9/07/02 at 23:01 (094734)

Dr. Z,
My idea is more of a 'Star Trek' one where the fascia would be extruded under pressure transforming it into a longer thinner band which because it was lengthened under pressure would remain at its new shape and size. Like taking a steel bar and making a roll out of it. Same material just different form and size.

ESWT on the other hand simply tries to accelerate the healing process to the existing injured fascia by causing more injury to the area. It does nothing to change it's length. This treatment is based on the idea that the body's natural healing process will be forced into action at the newly created injury site. This is a very natural occurance for the human body.

Before the ESWT treatment this area had been stagnant and therefore stopped healing. I consider ESWT sort of a wake up call to the body's own healing process, but not one that actually changes the length of the existing fascia.

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

Julie on 9/08/02 at 00:36 (094738)

But hey, doesn't inelastic steel require extreme heat (as well as pressure) to change its shape?

Ouch! and double ouch!

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

Dr. Z on 9/08/02 at 08:52 (094748)

How about this. Patient is completely out under sometime of anesthesia. The foot is placed ino some to of device that stretches the plantar fascia. Would have to be careful because you could rip the fascia. They do this with knees post implant. The patient's knee is manipulated under general anesthesia to get back motion. would be great if you could take some kind of supplement that makes tissue grow

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

john h on 9/08/02 at 10:22 (094753)

Dr Ed: If they can do Tommy John surgery and a guy can come back and throw a 100mph fastball with a tendon implant then it seems the possibility exist.

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

Pauline on 9/08/02 at 14:37 (094767)

Don't worry Julie, anesthesia. Only the char marks would tell what happened.

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

Julie on 9/08/02 at 16:07 (094768)

Pauline, I can only repeat:

OUCH! :o)

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

Pauline on 9/08/02 at 22:42 (094791)

By the time this treatment is developed they will be removing feet and replacing them with new younger ones instead.:*)

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

BGCPed on 9/09/02 at 19:24 (094855)

Interesting concept. What if there was a pf 'slide' performed then the area was covered with a wrap or tube of material that would degrade/absorb after a few months. It would be like wrapping tape around a pipe if it was isolated for a time then it dissolved it may work.
Still have the problem with the underlying structure problems that many pf feet have but if it relieves the pain without destroying a vital part of the foot it may work

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

Ed Davis, DPM on 9/11/02 at 22:09 (095096)

The plantar fascia is adherent to the intrinsic muscles deep to it. Before the fascia would be lengthened, one would need to free that adherence which would be very traumatic, causing the muscles to bleed.
There are mesh materials such as Dacron, Vicryl and polypropylene meshes which could be used as a wrapping and that would keep the fascia from becoming bound down after the surgery but it would not lessen the intial trauma caused by having to separate the fascia from the muscles initially.
Ed

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

Ed Davis, DPM on 9/11/02 at 22:17 (095097)

PS I have proposed attempting this procedure on cadavers to our surgical residents. It is something I want to explore further but am not very optimistic.

One alternative would be to look at the possiblity of making numerous small cuts in the fascia; basically creating a mesh like effect not that dissimilar to the meshing done to skin grafts to increase their surface area.
Ed

Re: POST OSSATRON & POST SURGERY RESULTS.....

Nancy on 11/19/02 at 15:20 (100657)

Has anyone recently had the Ossatron treatment lately? I'm considering Dec for having it done. Any success stories ? I have tried everything else except surgery.

Re: POST OSSATRON & POST SURGERY RESULTS.....

Pauline on 8/30/02 at 09:49 (093970)

Cindy,
Glad to hear your doing well post surgery. Please keep us posted especially when that boot comes off.

Re: Just how big is this scope?

BrianG on 8/31/02 at 19:42 (094093)

I'm very surprised your doctor could tell if there was any 'lengthening of the facia', considering how small the scope is. Any comments from the doctors? Is this something that can normally be seen during an EPF?

Glad your doing better, keep us updated.
BrianG

Re: Just how big is this scope?

Dr. Z on 8/31/02 at 20:30 (094098)

I am not sure what is meant by any lengthening of the facia. There is no procedure that I know of that can lengthen the fascia

Re: Just how big is this scope?

cindy e. on 9/01/02 at 13:39 (094142)

THE QUESTION I ASKED THE DOC WHO DID MY PROCEDURE WAS'COULD YOU TELL IF THE OSSATRON TREATMENT DID ANYTHING OR NOT SUCH AS SCAR TISSURE FILL-IN OR WHATEVER?' THE ANSWER WAS THAT HE COULD NOT TELL THAT THE OSSATRON TREATMENT HAD ANY EFFECT. MRS. E.

Re: Just how big is this scope?

Dr. Z on 9/01/02 at 14:21 (094146)

The scope is placed distal to the area where the ossatron treatment was administered. The plantar fascia release isn't at the inserton so yes you can't see the area at all.

Re: Just how big is this scope?

Joe S on 9/02/02 at 10:19 (094207)

You can't see anything but the plantar fascia or fat or muscle. You can't see any lengthening or shortening of the fascia. Even the open procedure you cant really see anything. It's more a 'feel' type of surgery. Some docs like to hear themselves speak when discusing the case with their patients postoperatively. 'Yeah that was the biggest heel spur I've ever encountered'. I wonder how many times this has been said. It's great that you had a good experience with the EPF.

Re: Just how big is this scope?

Joe S on 9/02/02 at 10:20 (094209)

If there was any damage or lengthening whatsoever, the human eye cuold not pick it up. It would be more of a cellular response.

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

Ed Davis, DPM on 9/07/02 at 12:59 (094692)

Dr. Z:

I and several coleagues have contemplated the possibility of a procedure that would lenghten the plantar fascia as opposed to cutting it. Conceptually, this would be the ideal means to relieve plantar fascial tension. The obstacles to the procedure include a potentially large incision on the plantar surface and adherence of the plantar fascia to the intrinsic muscles. The fascia would somehow need to be freed from that adherence since a z-plasty or slide would not work. The adherence problem prevents a minimal incision approach and release of the adherence would be very traumatic.
Ed

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

Pauline on 9/07/02 at 14:07 (094694)

Dr. Davis,
This treatment idea is certainly not without some big obstacles. I wish you could try it on cadavers that could wake up and walk after this procedure was done. New treatments come out of creative thinking, but this procedure sounds pretty radical.

What about a treatment that would actually 'thin' the fascia like you'd pound a piece of meat? If it were to follow what meat does under pressure it would automatically grow larger the thinner it got.

I don't mean smack it around with a 2x4 but thin and stretch it like taffy. Interesting thought????

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

Julie on 9/07/02 at 14:36 (094700)

That's an interesting idea, Pauline, but could it work? The fascia is inelastic, more like tendon, or ligament, than like elastic muscle, or like meat, which is muscle. If it doesn't stretch, could it thin with pressure? Just wondering.

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

Dr. Z on 9/07/02 at 15:28 (094709)

This is what happens with ESWT. You have an injury to just the thick, disease areas. The body absorbs and then replaces the tissue with new healthly stronger tissue. Am I one the same page as you guys?

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

Pauline on 9/07/02 at 22:04 (094731)

Julie,
They do it to steel, so why not fascia? Would the patient survive the treatment? Now that's the real question.

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

Pauline on 9/07/02 at 23:01 (094734)

Dr. Z,
My idea is more of a 'Star Trek' one where the fascia would be extruded under pressure transforming it into a longer thinner band which because it was lengthened under pressure would remain at its new shape and size. Like taking a steel bar and making a roll out of it. Same material just different form and size.

ESWT on the other hand simply tries to accelerate the healing process to the existing injured fascia by causing more injury to the area. It does nothing to change it's length. This treatment is based on the idea that the body's natural healing process will be forced into action at the newly created injury site. This is a very natural occurance for the human body.

Before the ESWT treatment this area had been stagnant and therefore stopped healing. I consider ESWT sort of a wake up call to the body's own healing process, but not one that actually changes the length of the existing fascia.

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

Julie on 9/08/02 at 00:36 (094738)

But hey, doesn't inelastic steel require extreme heat (as well as pressure) to change its shape?

Ouch! and double ouch!

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

Dr. Z on 9/08/02 at 08:52 (094748)

How about this. Patient is completely out under sometime of anesthesia. The foot is placed ino some to of device that stretches the plantar fascia. Would have to be careful because you could rip the fascia. They do this with knees post implant. The patient's knee is manipulated under general anesthesia to get back motion. would be great if you could take some kind of supplement that makes tissue grow

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

john h on 9/08/02 at 10:22 (094753)

Dr Ed: If they can do Tommy John surgery and a guy can come back and throw a 100mph fastball with a tendon implant then it seems the possibility exist.

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

Pauline on 9/08/02 at 14:37 (094767)

Don't worry Julie, anesthesia. Only the char marks would tell what happened.

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

Julie on 9/08/02 at 16:07 (094768)

Pauline, I can only repeat:

OUCH! :o)

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

Pauline on 9/08/02 at 22:42 (094791)

By the time this treatment is developed they will be removing feet and replacing them with new younger ones instead.:*)

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

BGCPed on 9/09/02 at 19:24 (094855)

Interesting concept. What if there was a pf 'slide' performed then the area was covered with a wrap or tube of material that would degrade/absorb after a few months. It would be like wrapping tape around a pipe if it was isolated for a time then it dissolved it may work.
Still have the problem with the underlying structure problems that many pf feet have but if it relieves the pain without destroying a vital part of the foot it may work

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

Ed Davis, DPM on 9/11/02 at 22:09 (095096)

The plantar fascia is adherent to the intrinsic muscles deep to it. Before the fascia would be lengthened, one would need to free that adherence which would be very traumatic, causing the muscles to bleed.
There are mesh materials such as Dacron, Vicryl and polypropylene meshes which could be used as a wrapping and that would keep the fascia from becoming bound down after the surgery but it would not lessen the intial trauma caused by having to separate the fascia from the muscles initially.
Ed

Re: plantar fascia lengthening

Ed Davis, DPM on 9/11/02 at 22:17 (095097)

PS I have proposed attempting this procedure on cadavers to our surgical residents. It is something I want to explore further but am not very optimistic.

One alternative would be to look at the possiblity of making numerous small cuts in the fascia; basically creating a mesh like effect not that dissimilar to the meshing done to skin grafts to increase their surface area.
Ed

Re: POST OSSATRON & POST SURGERY RESULTS.....

Nancy on 11/19/02 at 15:20 (100657)

Has anyone recently had the Ossatron treatment lately? I'm considering Dec for having it done. Any success stories ? I have tried everything else except surgery.