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Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

Posted by Annette on 9/30/02 at 09:11 (096507)

I thought that there was a 80-90% chance of a cure from haveing ESWT done? So far I have heard an alarming amout of stories about how ESWT did little to help people with PF , I am not saying that people should not post how it did not work for them and how they feel about it , because we most certianly need to hear about. I just want to h ear some of the success stories........ I know that your out there. I am just trying to feel a little positive about my post ESWT healing , so if anyone has anything positive to say....... bring it on!

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

JudyS on 9/30/02 at 09:33 (096512)

Annette - you might want to do a search of the message boards here and also check out Scott's section on post-ESWT evaluations. If you do a 'JudyS' search and see my post on or about 9-3-02 I wrote down my thoughts regarding the success of my ESWT with Dr. Z.

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

Ed Davis, DPM on 9/30/02 at 18:39 (096548)

Annette:

Keep in mind that posters here do not represent 'typical' cases of PF but tend to represent individuals with tough or recalcitrant cases -- that is often why they are here.

It is important to look at the percentages as opposed to focusing on individual cases where a treatment or treatments did not work.
Ed

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

Annette on 9/30/02 at 21:34 (096556)

ok, I see, thanks for pointing this out to me Ed.

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

Annette on 9/30/02 at 21:38 (096557)

Thank you Judy, I did a search and I found the post that you were refering to. By the way, it is a very good post and I will be reading it again.

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

Dr. Z on 10/01/02 at 02:50 (096573)

At one time there was a special section on ESWT where posters could report their results. This was removed . I had about one hundred posters who reported their results . The satisfacton rate was about 82%. for that machine. Today I have another machine which the studies report even higher . The sporadic ESWT posting on this board is very smalle and a very poor sampling of ESWT sucess . I have a very long list of sucessful patients that had ESWT and are cured.

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

Annette on 10/01/02 at 06:07 (096576)

Whew....that is good to hear Dr. Z, after reading the latest post I was getting a bit discouraged. Thanks :-)

Re: but were those who posted results in the ESWT section...

elliott on 10/01/02 at 09:34 (096592)

double-blind, randomized, and placebo-controlled? :-)

[[[

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

john h on 10/02/02 at 09:39 (096703)

I was not cured by ESWT but it sure improved my condition and I would not hesitate to tell anyone who has tried all the conservative treatments to give ESWT a try. It may take more than one treatment and the debate still goes on about which method is more effective (high energy 1 treatment or low energy 3 treatments). In any event my experience with ESWT has been positive. (bi-laterial PF for 8 years)

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

dave r on 10/02/02 at 09:57 (096710)

John, i know that you have had i believe three or four eswt treatments.
How long did it take for you to recover from each initial treatment? I mean how long did it take for you to be back to your original pain level?

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

john h on 10/03/02 at 09:23 (096794)

Dave: I walked out of each and every ESWT treatment better than I walked in. I had not shots on the last two. Over about 12 weeks i would take two steps forward and one step backwards but ultimately was better than before treatment. After my first treatment I think I overdid a lot of things because I sort of thought I was almost cured. After treatment I had to drive from New Jersey to Baltimore/Washington Airport, walk all around, flt to St Louis, change aircraft and walk a lot, wait 6 hours, and then fly on to Little Rock. I had no difficulty what so ever. I know Mohez had around 11 ESWT treatments with all three ESWT machines (Ossatron,Sonnocur,EPOS) and some months ago posted he was cured after many years. Who knows how many treatments it might take to cure or significantly make one better. Hitting just the right spot with the narrow ESWT beam is not easy. One might also speculate that Mohez may have just gotten better because of time but I am not waiting around for time to cure me. I read s legit medical article that said in most cases even chronic PF will go away in 10 years. That was really great news! (Duh!). I waited about 8 months between treatments but see no reason not to try another treatment after 6 months/

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

dave r on 10/03/02 at 10:26 (096798)

John, As you may already know i too have had pf for 6 years. I had my first eswt treatment in March of this year. My pain levels went up and down
for a few months. After 16 weeks i was gradually improving past my original pain threshold. At 21 weeks i was doing preety good but decided to have another treatment. Its been 6 weeks since then. I am starting to think that maybe i should of waited a little longer before getting another treatment. I think i was over anxious. Anyhow i would bet that i would of seen positive results. Now after the second treatment i am in the ups and downs again. Porbably 10% worse than before but i expected the pain to go up. I am sure that it will take a while for things to settle down. Both of my fascia are very thick. One was 11mm and the other 13mm. I would like to think that this would be over in ten years. Yikes...4 more years to go.
Ouch!!!!!!!!

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

john h on 10/03/02 at 18:16 (096840)

Dave: since it has only 6 weeks since your last treatment the conventional wisdom says your foot is still in the mending mode and it will be at least another 6 weeks before you can expect results. Which machine did you have ESWT with?

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

JudyS on 10/03/02 at 19:43 (096844)

John h - you forgot to tell Dave about the part where you were crying on the treatment table.......:)

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

dave r on 10/04/02 at 07:17 (096853)

The Dornier Epos. John what is your experiance with stretching? Having pf for 8 years are you able to stetch at all. I have never been able to strech properly without having a setback. It seems that stretching causes more injury. At least in my case.

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

john h on 10/04/02 at 09:44 (096865)

Dave I must confess I do not do much stretching for my feet even though I think it makes a lot of sense. About 3-4 times a week I do some weights, do back stretches (knees to chest,cat back stretch,half situps, and occasionally towell around toes while on back and pulling down gently to place some mild tension on fascia). None of this causes a problem. I went on a two mile walk without orthotics and that was not as successful as with my orthotics. If I find the time or ever quit work I fully intend to enroll in a Yoga class as they conduct them regularly at my health club. Since we all have probably acquired PF for different reasons it sort of seems that different approaches will make each of us better. Of course, stretching is a good course of action for any person generally speaking but if it causes increased pain with your PF I would certainly modify my stretching. I would guess to provide results with stretching it will take a lot of consistency and will power to do it almost daily. Once or twice a week is just not going to get it. The unanswerable question in PF is 'where and what is the pain generator?'..

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

Jean P. on 10/07/02 at 15:40 (097024)

I had both feet done in Sept. in Canada. After two years of escalating pain I finally have relief. One foot feels fine - the other is significantly improved. I might need another treatment for it but anyone who lives in pain cutting it in half is priceless. I would do it again.

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

Beverly L on 10/08/02 at 16:17 (097095)

This is my first post! I have had ESWT twice on both of my feet. I was one of the first patients ever treated in Illinois. The first time the treatment was done on both of my feet @ the same time. However, they no longer are treating both feet together anymore, therefore the second time, they were done separately. I have have severe PF for over well over five years. I was in extreme pain before the treatment. I had tried everything to help it, stretching, anti-inflamm., orthotics, tapping, physical therapy, deep tissue massages, cortisone shots, night splint, icing and soft casts. Nothing seemed to help. I felt a lot of relief the first time about 60-80% of the pain was gone, however the treatment seemed to last around 12 months. After having the second treatment on each foot, 4/01 and 7/01 I felt like a new person. It was wonderful. It seems I reach a platea though. In 7/02, I woke up one day and felt like the effect of ESWT had worn off and I am back to square one. I am currently seeing my Pod., he thought that since I experienced relief from the ESWT that we could get the pain under control w/ a new anti-inflamm. Bextra, but to no avail. Saw dr. last week Tuesday and infammation was very bad. Went on 6 day steroid pak to get inflammation down. Hope not to need another treatment but I would highly recommend ESWT. I do not think that it is a cure for PF but it definitely works for some people. I was feeling wonderful, excercising every day it was great!! Will keep you posted on progress.

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

GeorgiaR on 10/13/02 at 03:32 (097421)

I had the Ossatron treatment on my right heel in November 2000 (2nd person in Texas). I had severe unremitting pain for over 2 years. My treatment lasted for 45 minutes. I asked for a foot block instead of general anesthesia so I was awake and aware. But the banging noise was so loud and awful, I had them give me something after 5 minutes. My pain was completely gone in a week and has not recurred. The price was hefty, $4500. Insurance paid $3000. Billing came from Healthtronics

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

john h on 10/13/02 at 10:18 (097428)

Georgia how fortunate for you. I would pay $5000 in a New York Minute to get rid of PF. Congratualtions!

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

JudyS on 9/30/02 at 09:33 (096512)

Annette - you might want to do a search of the message boards here and also check out Scott's section on post-ESWT evaluations. If you do a 'JudyS' search and see my post on or about 9-3-02 I wrote down my thoughts regarding the success of my ESWT with Dr. Z.

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

Ed Davis, DPM on 9/30/02 at 18:39 (096548)

Annette:

Keep in mind that posters here do not represent 'typical' cases of PF but tend to represent individuals with tough or recalcitrant cases -- that is often why they are here.

It is important to look at the percentages as opposed to focusing on individual cases where a treatment or treatments did not work.
Ed

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

Annette on 9/30/02 at 21:34 (096556)

ok, I see, thanks for pointing this out to me Ed.

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

Annette on 9/30/02 at 21:38 (096557)

Thank you Judy, I did a search and I found the post that you were refering to. By the way, it is a very good post and I will be reading it again.

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

Dr. Z on 10/01/02 at 02:50 (096573)

At one time there was a special section on ESWT where posters could report their results. This was removed . I had about one hundred posters who reported their results . The satisfacton rate was about 82%. for that machine. Today I have another machine which the studies report even higher . The sporadic ESWT posting on this board is very smalle and a very poor sampling of ESWT sucess . I have a very long list of sucessful patients that had ESWT and are cured.

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

Annette on 10/01/02 at 06:07 (096576)

Whew....that is good to hear Dr. Z, after reading the latest post I was getting a bit discouraged. Thanks :-)

Re: but were those who posted results in the ESWT section...

elliott on 10/01/02 at 09:34 (096592)

double-blind, randomized, and placebo-controlled? :-)

[[[

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

john h on 10/02/02 at 09:39 (096703)

I was not cured by ESWT but it sure improved my condition and I would not hesitate to tell anyone who has tried all the conservative treatments to give ESWT a try. It may take more than one treatment and the debate still goes on about which method is more effective (high energy 1 treatment or low energy 3 treatments). In any event my experience with ESWT has been positive. (bi-laterial PF for 8 years)

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

dave r on 10/02/02 at 09:57 (096710)

John, i know that you have had i believe three or four eswt treatments.
How long did it take for you to recover from each initial treatment? I mean how long did it take for you to be back to your original pain level?

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

john h on 10/03/02 at 09:23 (096794)

Dave: I walked out of each and every ESWT treatment better than I walked in. I had not shots on the last two. Over about 12 weeks i would take two steps forward and one step backwards but ultimately was better than before treatment. After my first treatment I think I overdid a lot of things because I sort of thought I was almost cured. After treatment I had to drive from New Jersey to Baltimore/Washington Airport, walk all around, flt to St Louis, change aircraft and walk a lot, wait 6 hours, and then fly on to Little Rock. I had no difficulty what so ever. I know Mohez had around 11 ESWT treatments with all three ESWT machines (Ossatron,Sonnocur,EPOS) and some months ago posted he was cured after many years. Who knows how many treatments it might take to cure or significantly make one better. Hitting just the right spot with the narrow ESWT beam is not easy. One might also speculate that Mohez may have just gotten better because of time but I am not waiting around for time to cure me. I read s legit medical article that said in most cases even chronic PF will go away in 10 years. That was really great news! (Duh!). I waited about 8 months between treatments but see no reason not to try another treatment after 6 months/

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

dave r on 10/03/02 at 10:26 (096798)

John, As you may already know i too have had pf for 6 years. I had my first eswt treatment in March of this year. My pain levels went up and down
for a few months. After 16 weeks i was gradually improving past my original pain threshold. At 21 weeks i was doing preety good but decided to have another treatment. Its been 6 weeks since then. I am starting to think that maybe i should of waited a little longer before getting another treatment. I think i was over anxious. Anyhow i would bet that i would of seen positive results. Now after the second treatment i am in the ups and downs again. Porbably 10% worse than before but i expected the pain to go up. I am sure that it will take a while for things to settle down. Both of my fascia are very thick. One was 11mm and the other 13mm. I would like to think that this would be over in ten years. Yikes...4 more years to go.
Ouch!!!!!!!!

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

john h on 10/03/02 at 18:16 (096840)

Dave: since it has only 6 weeks since your last treatment the conventional wisdom says your foot is still in the mending mode and it will be at least another 6 weeks before you can expect results. Which machine did you have ESWT with?

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

JudyS on 10/03/02 at 19:43 (096844)

John h - you forgot to tell Dave about the part where you were crying on the treatment table.......:)

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

dave r on 10/04/02 at 07:17 (096853)

The Dornier Epos. John what is your experiance with stretching? Having pf for 8 years are you able to stetch at all. I have never been able to strech properly without having a setback. It seems that stretching causes more injury. At least in my case.

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

john h on 10/04/02 at 09:44 (096865)

Dave I must confess I do not do much stretching for my feet even though I think it makes a lot of sense. About 3-4 times a week I do some weights, do back stretches (knees to chest,cat back stretch,half situps, and occasionally towell around toes while on back and pulling down gently to place some mild tension on fascia). None of this causes a problem. I went on a two mile walk without orthotics and that was not as successful as with my orthotics. If I find the time or ever quit work I fully intend to enroll in a Yoga class as they conduct them regularly at my health club. Since we all have probably acquired PF for different reasons it sort of seems that different approaches will make each of us better. Of course, stretching is a good course of action for any person generally speaking but if it causes increased pain with your PF I would certainly modify my stretching. I would guess to provide results with stretching it will take a lot of consistency and will power to do it almost daily. Once or twice a week is just not going to get it. The unanswerable question in PF is 'where and what is the pain generator?'..

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

Jean P. on 10/07/02 at 15:40 (097024)

I had both feet done in Sept. in Canada. After two years of escalating pain I finally have relief. One foot feels fine - the other is significantly improved. I might need another treatment for it but anyone who lives in pain cutting it in half is priceless. I would do it again.

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

Beverly L on 10/08/02 at 16:17 (097095)

This is my first post! I have had ESWT twice on both of my feet. I was one of the first patients ever treated in Illinois. The first time the treatment was done on both of my feet @ the same time. However, they no longer are treating both feet together anymore, therefore the second time, they were done separately. I have have severe PF for over well over five years. I was in extreme pain before the treatment. I had tried everything to help it, stretching, anti-inflamm., orthotics, tapping, physical therapy, deep tissue massages, cortisone shots, night splint, icing and soft casts. Nothing seemed to help. I felt a lot of relief the first time about 60-80% of the pain was gone, however the treatment seemed to last around 12 months. After having the second treatment on each foot, 4/01 and 7/01 I felt like a new person. It was wonderful. It seems I reach a platea though. In 7/02, I woke up one day and felt like the effect of ESWT had worn off and I am back to square one. I am currently seeing my Pod., he thought that since I experienced relief from the ESWT that we could get the pain under control w/ a new anti-inflamm. Bextra, but to no avail. Saw dr. last week Tuesday and infammation was very bad. Went on 6 day steroid pak to get inflammation down. Hope not to need another treatment but I would highly recommend ESWT. I do not think that it is a cure for PF but it definitely works for some people. I was feeling wonderful, excercising every day it was great!! Will keep you posted on progress.

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

GeorgiaR on 10/13/02 at 03:32 (097421)

I had the Ossatron treatment on my right heel in November 2000 (2nd person in Texas). I had severe unremitting pain for over 2 years. My treatment lasted for 45 minutes. I asked for a foot block instead of general anesthesia so I was awake and aware. But the banging noise was so loud and awful, I had them give me something after 5 minutes. My pain was completely gone in a week and has not recurred. The price was hefty, $4500. Insurance paid $3000. Billing came from Healthtronics

Re: Anyone here been helped by ESWT? C'mon....lets hear about it.

john h on 10/13/02 at 10:18 (097428)

Georgia how fortunate for you. I would pay $5000 in a New York Minute to get rid of PF. Congratualtions!