Home The Book Dr Articles Products Message Boards Journal Articles Search Our Surveys Surgery ESWT Dr Messages Find Good Drs video

ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

Posted by walt w. on 10/16/02 at 12:50 (097639)

Yesterday, I received a letter from the Benefits Administrator of IBM Corporation stating that my request for ESWT benefits had been denied through an HMO by the name of MVP from the lower Hudson Valley in New York. This was after a special panel was named to investigate ESWT. It took them 100 days to come up with ridiculous reasons for denying the claim:
1. Said that ESWT is investigational and experimental, even though I supplied many articles stating that the procedure has been FDA approved.
2. Said that my wife did not have all the recommended treatments for plantar fasciitis, such as orthotics, cortisone injections, therapy etc. I had provided them with receipts, notes, letters etc. proving that she had all these procedures over a period of the last several years and that all had failed to alleviate her condition.

It is obvious to me that this so called 'special investigative panel' didn't even look at the documentation that I supplied and had already made up their minds not to pay the claim. As with many HMO's they are interested in one thing only, money in their pockets. They don't give a damn about pain and suffering What is wrong with this country?

My next step is to sue them! I will be consulting a lawyer very soon and then afterwards will make sure to have a letter printed in the local paper telling everyone about this HMO and how they don't care about people, just money.

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

Pauline on 10/16/02 at 13:55 (097644)

Walt,
I can hear and feel the anger and frustration in your post. If you spend the money on an attorney you'd have to win your case before your wife would be treated. In the mean time, she would still be in pain and you may not win. Maybe the money would be better spent by going to Canada for treatment. Just something to think about because the bottom line is getting help for her although we'd all like to use 2X4's on some of the guys/gals making these decisions.

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

walt w. on 10/16/02 at 14:01 (097646)

I hear you! We are considering having the treatment, paying for it and then trying to get reimbursed through a lawsuit. I don't see how we could lose the lawsuit, especially based on the fact that they are denying the claim based on the fact that ESWT, according to them, is experimental. It is an FDA approved procedure! If it were experimental, it would not be approved, would it?

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

Pauline on 10/16/02 at 16:22 (097655)

Not sure about that. Experimental could simply mean not generally accepted yet. I recall my niece having the same difficulty with an arthritis treatment.

Also the new treatment just recently approved by the FDA for the Wet form of Macular Degeneration is not covered by most insurance companies yet. Even medicare was yes then no and now yes again. They could be the only ones currently covering it. I'm pretty sure about this one because my friend was turned down a week ago and won't qualify for medicare until Jan. Her doctor indicated medicare would have paid for the treatment.

The procedure must be done in a hospital. Base price is $2000 which doesn't include hospital or doctors charges. She is on a monthly wait and see program. If her condition progresses rapidly she will be forced to pay out of pocket within the month. She is hoping to hold off until Jan. and will then have the treatment immediately.

I told her she should have the treatment now and offered financial help. She refused. We're hoping she will change her mind.

From these two examples, I'd say experimental could have several meanings to those making the decisions.

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

Jean P. on 10/16/02 at 17:21 (097660)

I was denied by Aetna US healthcare. I think they would win if it came to court because there are not enough studies on ESWT and the findings are conflicting. For me it came down to a gamble - was the chance of finding a solution and avoiding surgery worth the $ I am cheap so it was not an easy call. I decided to take my chances and went to Canada in Sept. So far I am very happy one foot is totally better and one - the worse one still has PF but the pain is half what it was. It is early days yet and I don't want to jinx myself but so far I am happy that I had it done. Best of luck that you and your wife come up with the best solution for your situation.

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

Lisa M. on 10/16/02 at 17:57 (097665)

I am considering going to Canada, too. This constant heel pain is for the birds. I'm glad to hear that it worked out for you..so far.
But I was wondering if it really is cheaper to go to Canada vs. here as you must have 3 treatments there over the course of a week. The hotel stay for a week would really add up, not to mention the other travel costs involved.
Is this correct??
I know not many insurers are covering this procedure yet. I can't wait much longer. Please let me know more details of your ESWT treatment.
Lisa

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

Pauline on 10/16/02 at 19:21 (097672)

Jean,
Would you mind posting which facility and machine did your treatments?
It sounds like your finally on the road to being cured. That's wonderful.

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

Jean P. on 10/16/02 at 21:05 (097680)

I went to Bayshore in Toronto. I had three treatments of the low voltage.

Re: sham panel

Ed Davis, DPM on 10/16/02 at 21:27 (097681)

Individuals on panels have an obligation to make medical decisions consistent with the standard of care in the community. Such individuals need to have adequate qualifications to make such decisions and should be liable for decisions made which are not consistent with standards of care.

Your attorney should be able to obtain the names of the individuals on the panel so that their qualifications can be checked. Panel members who render decisions which are beneath the standard of care should be reported to the state licensing board.
Ed

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

Jean P. on 10/16/02 at 21:28 (097682)

Lisa,

I had my treatments on 3 consecutive days. Bayshore gets company rates at local hotels - my room was very nice and not too $. I would call them and see how it fits in your budget. I considered having Theodore do my feet in Mass. so I would have no hotel, flight and car expense but Canada was half the price (including travel) and they would do both feet at the same time.

Re: surgery vs. ESWT

Ed Davis, DPM on 10/16/02 at 21:47 (097690)

When I get a denial for ESWT, I return the letter posing the question as to whether plantar fascial release surgery would be approved. The critieria for surgery should be considerably more strict and narrow than ESWT. If the panel claims surgery is appropriate then they must allow ESWT.
Ed

Re: It's time to appeal !!!!

BrianG on 10/16/02 at 21:54 (097693)

Walt, do you have the right to appeal the first decision? If so, do it, and bring all your paperwork (that was apparently overlooked) with you. Going before an actual panel lets them see that you are human, and in pain. It's your right, do it!!

Regards
BrianG

Re: It's time to appeal !!!!

walt w. on 10/17/02 at 06:55 (097707)

This was the final appeal, no more are possible. Thanks.

Re: sham panel

walt w. on 10/17/02 at 06:59 (097708)

Thanks for the info!

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

Pauline on 10/17/02 at 08:58 (097723)

Lisa,
Dr. Kudo at Fowler Kennedy Sports Center is doing a one time high energy treatment using Dornier. Dr. Gordon is using the Ossatron for a one time treatment so there are choices.

The exchange rate in Canada is great for U.S. citizens and using the Entertainment book or Expedia you can also get very reasonable rates sometimes cheaper than Medical Rates. These treatment centers also get medical rates a hotels close to them.

Re: Pauline, you keep knocking out my posts!

elliott on 10/17/02 at 09:04 (097724)

I get the title, you get the text. Twilight Zone [][][][][][][][][

{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}

Re: It's time to appeal !!!!

Dr. Zuckerman on 10/17/02 at 12:00 (097741)

This is very typical . Unfortunately the can get away with this. I would take Pauline's advice and get treatment now. We offer ESWT using the dornier at a very reasonable price. I have performed hundreds of ESWT procedures. I just past my 120 procedure with the Dornier Epos . This device uses outline ultrasound that enables the doctor to visualize the damaged fascia. If you would like our ESWT informational packet please e-mail Dr. Z at (email removed)

Re: sham panel

Dr. Zuckerman on 10/17/02 at 12:02 (097742)

In the state of New Jersey if you made this type of decision you can be reported to the State Board of medical Examiners. The doctor make determinations based on standard of common practice or face sanctions and or fines by the State.

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

Dr. Zuckerman on 10/17/02 at 12:04 (097744)

So how are you doing . I hope well

Re: It's time to appeal !!!!

walt w. on 10/17/02 at 12:13 (097745)

My wife called your office several months ago and did receive the information packet. She does plan on coming in for ESWT but we were trying to get our Insurance Company to pay for it. Instead they told us they were appointing a panel to study ESWT and my wife's claim. It took them over 100 days to make their decision and they denied the claim. We are thinking of taking them to court, especially since they turned us down citing ESWT as investigational and experimental.

Re: Pauline, you keep knocking out my posts!

Pauline on 10/17/02 at 15:08 (097754)

Elliott,
I don't understand what you are saying. How do I knock out your posts? Must be a mechanical problem? I know the board posted one of mine twice although I only entered it once.

Re: Pauline, you keep knocking out my posts!

elliott on 10/17/02 at 15:21 (097756)

Pauline, I think we were both on at the same time before, and somehow my post titles got intertwined with your post bodies, and in a different location at that. This happens every once in a while ( Scott R -- it's happening again!). Some of the posts I submitted didn't appear at all anywhere except perhaps through search mode. Furthermore, my message you responded to above was not even posted in that location; I wouldn't be surprised if this one I'm typing now ends up somewhere else too. There are sometimes what I call Twilight Zone threads, where one's post gets sucked into a mysterious world, never to get out again and sometimes dragging others into it.

elliott

Re: not to mention double-interleaved posts :-) (nm)

elliott on 10/17/02 at 15:22 (097757)

.

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

john h on 10/18/02 at 19:21 (097837)

Pauline: I still like the Mohez protocol of having treatments with all three machines. Last post Mohez declared himself cured after many years.

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

Pauline on 10/18/02 at 20:19 (097841)

John, then you should try to do the same. Sunny at Bayshore could provide you with the next two machines, Ossatron and Sonocur. Afterward you could see Dr. Z for the Dornier. You'd be 'one up' on Mohez because your first treatments were with the Big 'O'. That would give you treatments on 4 different machines and you'd break Mohez's record. Would you be cured?
That's the big question.

Wishing you luck in finding your cure and surpassing Mohez's record.

Re: sham panel

Ed Davis, DPM on 10/19/02 at 12:46 (097896)

Sounds like New Jersey is ahead of many states on this issue. A similar problem exists with 'expert witnesses' who testify in litigation and are not adequately held to standards.
Ed

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

Sunny Jacob, Bayshore on 10/20/02 at 07:15 (097948)

Sorry Pauline, it is not that simple.
At Bayshore we pride ourselves in the quality and integrity of the care we provide. Even if John wants to get treatment on both of our equipments, it does not work like buying tickets for two movies. If our assessment concludes that further ESWT treatment cannot provide any improvement, then he will not receive any treatment from us.

Re: To Sonny

Pauline on 10/20/02 at 08:18 (097951)

Sonny,
Just wanted you to know that I was jesting with John about his collecting ESWT treatments. :*)

We all realize Bayshore is a treatment center of quality and integrity and would not fire off ESWT treatments without cause or reason. God forbid anyone treating patients with ESWT would do this.

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

john h on 10/20/02 at 11:16 (097961)

Sunny: pauline was just jesting with me as she often does. After my lengthy conversation with Dr. Gordon and from my own experience with ESWT I do hope and think I am still a good candidate for ESWT. I can locate the specific pain area, a cortione shot into that area reduced or eliminated pain for several days. about 6-7 doctors all say I have PF. Bayshore is still on my list. My big question is that will the Ossatron be more appropriate for the foot that had the Baxter Procedure? I remember your facts, I think, to be that a foot with previous surgery statistically had less of a chance for an improvement than a foot with no surgery. At this point the foot without surgery is the worse of the two. Anyone care to meet me in Toronto this winter?

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

nancy s. on 10/20/02 at 11:18 (097963)

john, i would not meet you in toronto in the winter, but i'll be happy to meet you in mexico. just name the time and place. no resorts, please. mid-mexico highlands, like san miguel de allende.
nancy

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

Pauline on 10/20/02 at 13:02 (097968)

John,
Make sure to take your wife along. Toronto is a great shopping town amoung other good things like theatre and dining. She wouldn't want to miss this trip. I'd turn it into more than just an ESWT treatment. Make it a mini vacation. You won't regret it.

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

john h on 10/21/02 at 09:55 (098023)

Pauline: Since 9/11 my wife will not even go to the airport much less get on a plane. Even before 9/11 I would take my daughter on a flight with me at the controls but Mary would not venture into a small aircraft. One day I got her into a helicopter and fired up the engine. I thought she would come unglued. Of course, we did not take off. I am not driving to Toronto so it will have to be just me. She does not drink so that want help. Maybe the scaredy cat Wendy can tell me how she gets on an aircraft. I flew a large passenger aircraft for about 4 years on the North Atlantic run to London,Paris,Frankfurt,Athens,etc. I always marveled at how if one passenger got sick then about 50 others would be not far behind, Some one get a death hold on their arm rest on their seats and ride that way for hours. The old DC-6 could not get above the weather like the modern jet so we were often in the soup,ice, and storms for 8-10 hours. If you have ever seen St Elmo's Fire in an aircraft you have not lived. Usually associate with the far north. A fire will appear around the tips of your propeller blades and will also dance off the windshield in front of the pilots. Very scary to passengers but no danger to aircraft.The Northern Lights over the north atlantic is also an awsome sight.

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

Pauline on 10/21/02 at 12:36 (098029)

John,
I can appreciate your wife's feelings. Fear for any reason is real to the person who is experiencing it. My problem is elevators, hers is flying. I think most people fear something.

I'm not a fan of flying, but I'm able to do it. I always sit in an isle seat, wear sea bands and take ginger tablets. Personally, I don't think drinking your way through a flight is practical because if you had to react you'd be hindered so sea bands and ginger tablets have become my way to fly.

I'm sure she'd enjoy the city, but then your having ESWT so your not going to be walking around much anyway. Get your treatment and hopefully you'll be cured then you and Mary will be able to drive back to Toronto for a vacation someday.

I'm sure we have some posters living in that area who would be glad to meet up with you. Do you know when your going?

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

john h on 10/22/02 at 13:59 (098086)

the mystery man Mohez lives around there somewhere. Of course Sunny is there and I make frieds easily. Maybe even be forced to go to a hockey game. To bad Wendy is on the west coast of Canada. I do not know when the snow arrives there but I bet soon.

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

dave r on 10/22/02 at 14:05 (098087)

Friday we got 2' of snow. Sunday night and monday another 6' on the ground.
Most of it is gone already.........

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

wendyn on 10/22/02 at 14:52 (098090)

I'm not on the west coast. We have had snow a few times already!

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

Pauline on 10/16/02 at 13:55 (097644)

Walt,
I can hear and feel the anger and frustration in your post. If you spend the money on an attorney you'd have to win your case before your wife would be treated. In the mean time, she would still be in pain and you may not win. Maybe the money would be better spent by going to Canada for treatment. Just something to think about because the bottom line is getting help for her although we'd all like to use 2X4's on some of the guys/gals making these decisions.

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

walt w. on 10/16/02 at 14:01 (097646)

I hear you! We are considering having the treatment, paying for it and then trying to get reimbursed through a lawsuit. I don't see how we could lose the lawsuit, especially based on the fact that they are denying the claim based on the fact that ESWT, according to them, is experimental. It is an FDA approved procedure! If it were experimental, it would not be approved, would it?

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

Pauline on 10/16/02 at 16:22 (097655)

Not sure about that. Experimental could simply mean not generally accepted yet. I recall my niece having the same difficulty with an arthritis treatment.

Also the new treatment just recently approved by the FDA for the Wet form of Macular Degeneration is not covered by most insurance companies yet. Even medicare was yes then no and now yes again. They could be the only ones currently covering it. I'm pretty sure about this one because my friend was turned down a week ago and won't qualify for medicare until Jan. Her doctor indicated medicare would have paid for the treatment.

The procedure must be done in a hospital. Base price is $2000 which doesn't include hospital or doctors charges. She is on a monthly wait and see program. If her condition progresses rapidly she will be forced to pay out of pocket within the month. She is hoping to hold off until Jan. and will then have the treatment immediately.

I told her she should have the treatment now and offered financial help. She refused. We're hoping she will change her mind.

From these two examples, I'd say experimental could have several meanings to those making the decisions.

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

Jean P. on 10/16/02 at 17:21 (097660)

I was denied by Aetna US healthcare. I think they would win if it came to court because there are not enough studies on ESWT and the findings are conflicting. For me it came down to a gamble - was the chance of finding a solution and avoiding surgery worth the $ I am cheap so it was not an easy call. I decided to take my chances and went to Canada in Sept. So far I am very happy one foot is totally better and one - the worse one still has PF but the pain is half what it was. It is early days yet and I don't want to jinx myself but so far I am happy that I had it done. Best of luck that you and your wife come up with the best solution for your situation.

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

Lisa M. on 10/16/02 at 17:57 (097665)

I am considering going to Canada, too. This constant heel pain is for the birds. I'm glad to hear that it worked out for you..so far.
But I was wondering if it really is cheaper to go to Canada vs. here as you must have 3 treatments there over the course of a week. The hotel stay for a week would really add up, not to mention the other travel costs involved.
Is this correct??
I know not many insurers are covering this procedure yet. I can't wait much longer. Please let me know more details of your ESWT treatment.
Lisa

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

Pauline on 10/16/02 at 19:21 (097672)

Jean,
Would you mind posting which facility and machine did your treatments?
It sounds like your finally on the road to being cured. That's wonderful.

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

Jean P. on 10/16/02 at 21:05 (097680)

I went to Bayshore in Toronto. I had three treatments of the low voltage.

Re: sham panel

Ed Davis, DPM on 10/16/02 at 21:27 (097681)

Individuals on panels have an obligation to make medical decisions consistent with the standard of care in the community. Such individuals need to have adequate qualifications to make such decisions and should be liable for decisions made which are not consistent with standards of care.

Your attorney should be able to obtain the names of the individuals on the panel so that their qualifications can be checked. Panel members who render decisions which are beneath the standard of care should be reported to the state licensing board.
Ed

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

Jean P. on 10/16/02 at 21:28 (097682)

Lisa,

I had my treatments on 3 consecutive days. Bayshore gets company rates at local hotels - my room was very nice and not too $. I would call them and see how it fits in your budget. I considered having Theodore do my feet in Mass. so I would have no hotel, flight and car expense but Canada was half the price (including travel) and they would do both feet at the same time.

Re: surgery vs. ESWT

Ed Davis, DPM on 10/16/02 at 21:47 (097690)

When I get a denial for ESWT, I return the letter posing the question as to whether plantar fascial release surgery would be approved. The critieria for surgery should be considerably more strict and narrow than ESWT. If the panel claims surgery is appropriate then they must allow ESWT.
Ed

Re: It's time to appeal !!!!

BrianG on 10/16/02 at 21:54 (097693)

Walt, do you have the right to appeal the first decision? If so, do it, and bring all your paperwork (that was apparently overlooked) with you. Going before an actual panel lets them see that you are human, and in pain. It's your right, do it!!

Regards
BrianG

Re: It's time to appeal !!!!

walt w. on 10/17/02 at 06:55 (097707)

This was the final appeal, no more are possible. Thanks.

Re: sham panel

walt w. on 10/17/02 at 06:59 (097708)

Thanks for the info!

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

Pauline on 10/17/02 at 08:58 (097723)

Lisa,
Dr. Kudo at Fowler Kennedy Sports Center is doing a one time high energy treatment using Dornier. Dr. Gordon is using the Ossatron for a one time treatment so there are choices.

The exchange rate in Canada is great for U.S. citizens and using the Entertainment book or Expedia you can also get very reasonable rates sometimes cheaper than Medical Rates. These treatment centers also get medical rates a hotels close to them.

Re: Pauline, you keep knocking out my posts!

elliott on 10/17/02 at 09:04 (097724)

I get the title, you get the text. Twilight Zone [][][][][][][][][

{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}

Re: It's time to appeal !!!!

Dr. Zuckerman on 10/17/02 at 12:00 (097741)

This is very typical . Unfortunately the can get away with this. I would take Pauline's advice and get treatment now. We offer ESWT using the dornier at a very reasonable price. I have performed hundreds of ESWT procedures. I just past my 120 procedure with the Dornier Epos . This device uses outline ultrasound that enables the doctor to visualize the damaged fascia. If you would like our ESWT informational packet please e-mail Dr. Z at (email removed)

Re: sham panel

Dr. Zuckerman on 10/17/02 at 12:02 (097742)

In the state of New Jersey if you made this type of decision you can be reported to the State Board of medical Examiners. The doctor make determinations based on standard of common practice or face sanctions and or fines by the State.

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

Dr. Zuckerman on 10/17/02 at 12:04 (097744)

So how are you doing . I hope well

Re: It's time to appeal !!!!

walt w. on 10/17/02 at 12:13 (097745)

My wife called your office several months ago and did receive the information packet. She does plan on coming in for ESWT but we were trying to get our Insurance Company to pay for it. Instead they told us they were appointing a panel to study ESWT and my wife's claim. It took them over 100 days to make their decision and they denied the claim. We are thinking of taking them to court, especially since they turned us down citing ESWT as investigational and experimental.

Re: Pauline, you keep knocking out my posts!

Pauline on 10/17/02 at 15:08 (097754)

Elliott,
I don't understand what you are saying. How do I knock out your posts? Must be a mechanical problem? I know the board posted one of mine twice although I only entered it once.

Re: Pauline, you keep knocking out my posts!

elliott on 10/17/02 at 15:21 (097756)

Pauline, I think we were both on at the same time before, and somehow my post titles got intertwined with your post bodies, and in a different location at that. This happens every once in a while ( Scott R -- it's happening again!). Some of the posts I submitted didn't appear at all anywhere except perhaps through search mode. Furthermore, my message you responded to above was not even posted in that location; I wouldn't be surprised if this one I'm typing now ends up somewhere else too. There are sometimes what I call Twilight Zone threads, where one's post gets sucked into a mysterious world, never to get out again and sometimes dragging others into it.

elliott

Re: not to mention double-interleaved posts :-) (nm)

elliott on 10/17/02 at 15:22 (097757)

.

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

john h on 10/18/02 at 19:21 (097837)

Pauline: I still like the Mohez protocol of having treatments with all three machines. Last post Mohez declared himself cured after many years.

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

Pauline on 10/18/02 at 20:19 (097841)

John, then you should try to do the same. Sunny at Bayshore could provide you with the next two machines, Ossatron and Sonocur. Afterward you could see Dr. Z for the Dornier. You'd be 'one up' on Mohez because your first treatments were with the Big 'O'. That would give you treatments on 4 different machines and you'd break Mohez's record. Would you be cured?
That's the big question.

Wishing you luck in finding your cure and surpassing Mohez's record.

Re: sham panel

Ed Davis, DPM on 10/19/02 at 12:46 (097896)

Sounds like New Jersey is ahead of many states on this issue. A similar problem exists with 'expert witnesses' who testify in litigation and are not adequately held to standards.
Ed

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

Sunny Jacob, Bayshore on 10/20/02 at 07:15 (097948)

Sorry Pauline, it is not that simple.
At Bayshore we pride ourselves in the quality and integrity of the care we provide. Even if John wants to get treatment on both of our equipments, it does not work like buying tickets for two movies. If our assessment concludes that further ESWT treatment cannot provide any improvement, then he will not receive any treatment from us.

Re: To Sonny

Pauline on 10/20/02 at 08:18 (097951)

Sonny,
Just wanted you to know that I was jesting with John about his collecting ESWT treatments. :*)

We all realize Bayshore is a treatment center of quality and integrity and would not fire off ESWT treatments without cause or reason. God forbid anyone treating patients with ESWT would do this.

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

john h on 10/20/02 at 11:16 (097961)

Sunny: pauline was just jesting with me as she often does. After my lengthy conversation with Dr. Gordon and from my own experience with ESWT I do hope and think I am still a good candidate for ESWT. I can locate the specific pain area, a cortione shot into that area reduced or eliminated pain for several days. about 6-7 doctors all say I have PF. Bayshore is still on my list. My big question is that will the Ossatron be more appropriate for the foot that had the Baxter Procedure? I remember your facts, I think, to be that a foot with previous surgery statistically had less of a chance for an improvement than a foot with no surgery. At this point the foot without surgery is the worse of the two. Anyone care to meet me in Toronto this winter?

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

nancy s. on 10/20/02 at 11:18 (097963)

john, i would not meet you in toronto in the winter, but i'll be happy to meet you in mexico. just name the time and place. no resorts, please. mid-mexico highlands, like san miguel de allende.
nancy

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

Pauline on 10/20/02 at 13:02 (097968)

John,
Make sure to take your wife along. Toronto is a great shopping town amoung other good things like theatre and dining. She wouldn't want to miss this trip. I'd turn it into more than just an ESWT treatment. Make it a mini vacation. You won't regret it.

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

john h on 10/21/02 at 09:55 (098023)

Pauline: Since 9/11 my wife will not even go to the airport much less get on a plane. Even before 9/11 I would take my daughter on a flight with me at the controls but Mary would not venture into a small aircraft. One day I got her into a helicopter and fired up the engine. I thought she would come unglued. Of course, we did not take off. I am not driving to Toronto so it will have to be just me. She does not drink so that want help. Maybe the scaredy cat Wendy can tell me how she gets on an aircraft. I flew a large passenger aircraft for about 4 years on the North Atlantic run to London,Paris,Frankfurt,Athens,etc. I always marveled at how if one passenger got sick then about 50 others would be not far behind, Some one get a death hold on their arm rest on their seats and ride that way for hours. The old DC-6 could not get above the weather like the modern jet so we were often in the soup,ice, and storms for 8-10 hours. If you have ever seen St Elmo's Fire in an aircraft you have not lived. Usually associate with the far north. A fire will appear around the tips of your propeller blades and will also dance off the windshield in front of the pilots. Very scary to passengers but no danger to aircraft.The Northern Lights over the north atlantic is also an awsome sight.

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

Pauline on 10/21/02 at 12:36 (098029)

John,
I can appreciate your wife's feelings. Fear for any reason is real to the person who is experiencing it. My problem is elevators, hers is flying. I think most people fear something.

I'm not a fan of flying, but I'm able to do it. I always sit in an isle seat, wear sea bands and take ginger tablets. Personally, I don't think drinking your way through a flight is practical because if you had to react you'd be hindered so sea bands and ginger tablets have become my way to fly.

I'm sure she'd enjoy the city, but then your having ESWT so your not going to be walking around much anyway. Get your treatment and hopefully you'll be cured then you and Mary will be able to drive back to Toronto for a vacation someday.

I'm sure we have some posters living in that area who would be glad to meet up with you. Do you know when your going?

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

john h on 10/22/02 at 13:59 (098086)

the mystery man Mohez lives around there somewhere. Of course Sunny is there and I make frieds easily. Maybe even be forced to go to a hockey game. To bad Wendy is on the west coast of Canada. I do not know when the snow arrives there but I bet soon.

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

dave r on 10/22/02 at 14:05 (098087)

Friday we got 2' of snow. Sunday night and monday another 6' on the ground.
Most of it is gone already.........

Re: ESWT Benefits Denial by MVP & IBM

wendyn on 10/22/02 at 14:52 (098090)

I'm not on the west coast. We have had snow a few times already!