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ESWT refused by insurance

Posted by Mike P on 10/17/02 at 11:10 (097735)

The same goes for my situation....all the evidence, reports and treatments given to my #1 insurance company in NY State....CDPHP (HMO). No treatment will be covered as it is experimantal! Just keep my insurance payments in your pockets! What a racket.

Re: ESWT refused by insurance

LISA J on 10/17/02 at 17:15 (097767)

I DO BILLING FOR DOCTORS WHO DO ESWT'S. ALTHOUGH AT THIS TIMES MOST INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE NOT COVERING THE PROCEDURE WE HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT PA BLUE SHIELD WILL START COVERING AS OF 11/11/02. SOME ARE ACTUALLY GETTING PAID NOW BUT THOSE ARE FEW AND FAR BETWEEN. ONCE BLUE SHIELD STARTS IT IS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE KEYSTONE, AETNA, AND HEALTH AMERICA FOLLOW SUITE. THE REASON THEY WERE BEING DENIED IS THAT THE INSURANCE CO WAS SAYING THAT IT WAS EXPERIMENTAL. THAT CAN NO LONGER BE THE REASON SINCE THE FDA HAS APPROVED IT FOR THE TREATMENT OF PLANTAR FASCITIS.
PATIENTS SHOULD CONTINUE TO CALL THEIR INSURANCE COMPANIES AND DOCTORS OFFICES THAT ARE DOING THIS SHOULD SEND PAGES AND PAGES OF INFO ABOUT ESWT'S TO THE INSURANCE COMPANIES. THEY NO LONGER HAVE A REASON TO REJECT IT. IT IS NOT EXPERIMENTAL OR INVESTIGATIONAL. WE HAVE ALSO HAD GREAT SUCCESS WITH THIS PROCEDURE, FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN SUFFERING WITH HEEL PAIN FOR YEARS.

Re: ESWT refused by insurance

Dr Zuckerman on 10/17/02 at 22:11 (097783)

We have found that insurance companies just delay, reject and then delay some more. It is a ashame that such a wonderful procedure is being treated like this. It is my opinion that until there is a specific code for ESWT this type of problem will continue. Good luck. Where do you practice ?

Re: ESWT refused by insurance

Pauline on 10/18/02 at 10:30 (097808)

Dr.Z,
Although what your saying is true about insurance coverage for ESWT, there are also other FDA approved treatments that are being denied coverage for what I'd consider far more serious medical conditions. The latest one being the new treatment for people suffering from the Wet form of Macular Degeneration.

While denial for neither is acceptable, fortunately people don't go blind from not being able to get ESWT.

Although P.F. and TTS is the subject for this site, in the larger picture of health conditions we are far better off than those people being denied insurance coverage for more serious and dangerous illnesses.

I think given a choice most people here would choose P.F. over a more serious disease. Is having any health condition great? NO, but we tend to live in the moment. There are far worse conditions we could trade up to and still be denied insurance coverage without the chance or promise of a cure.

While we all nobly complain about no or slow insurance coverage for ESWT I think many of us have to take a look at what could be done for poorer patients today.

With 50 doctors on board, your ESWT medical group could surely lower it's charges for treatment to accommodate lower income persons needing ESWT treatment . This holds true for most centers in the U.S. People do what they want to do. Doctors are no different.

Would doctors in the U.S. that agree to lowering their fees lose income? Probably. Would their families starve or their bills go unpaid? Probably not.

I'm saying there is a way for lower income people to get the ESWT treatment they need without insurance coverage starting today, but maybe it's not just the insurance companies who are denying them, although they are certainly the easiest target to take all the blame.

Will this idea be popular with U.S. doctors and clinics? Definately not, but it's food for thought.

Re: ESWT refused by insurance

LISA J on 10/18/02 at 20:23 (097842)

OUR OFFICE IS LOCATED IN CAMP HILL, PA. WE STARTED DOING THE PROCEDURE IN
SEPTEMBER OF THIS YEAR. SLOWLY I AM MAKING PROGRESS WITH INSURANCE COMPANIES IN THIS AREA. CIGNA HAS AGREED TO COVER, LOOMIS, AND AS I SAID BLUE SHIELD OF PA IN NOVEMBER WILL COVER. THE COMPANY WHO OWNS THE MACHINE HOWEVER IS NON-PAR WITH ALL THESE INSURANCE COMPANIES WHICH IS CAUSING BILLING PROBLEMS OF A DIFFERENT NATURE. ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WITH THIS PROCEDURE NOT HAVING A CPT CODE IS THAT THE TEMPORARY CODE GIVEN 0020T
IS NOT RECOGNIZED. I HAVE ACTUALLY TRIED 28899 UNLISTED PROCEDURE CODE,WITH A WRITTEN DESCRIPTION, AND AN OP REPORT. ONE OF THE OTHER DANGERS IS AN INSURANCE COMPANY WILL SAY THEY WILL COVER THE PROCEDURE, BUT NOT TELL YOU THAT THEY ARE ONLY GOING TO ALLOW 100.00. IF YOUR A PAR PROVIDER YOU WOULD HAVE TO ACCEPT THIS. IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU GET A LETTER WITH THE AGREED UPON REIMBURSEMENT AMOUNT. AS MORE AND MORE ORTHOPEDIC SURGEONS AND PODIATRIST DO THIS PROCEDURE WITH SUCCESS IT IS JUST A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE THE INSURANCE COMPANIES DO COME AROUND. I REALIZE ORTHOTICS ARE NOT COVERED BY A LOT OF INSURANCE COMPANIES AND THERE IS GREAT SUCCESS WITH THEM, BUT I FEEL THIS IS DIFFERENT. THE DOCTORS IN THIS AREA ARE SPENDING THE TIME TO GET CERTIFIED TO DO THIS PROCEDURE AND I FEEL THEY ALL SEE THAT THIS IS THE FUTURE TREATMENT FOR CHRONIC PLANTAR FASCITIS. BETWEEN THE DEMAND FROM THE DOCTORS AND THE DEMAND FROM THE PUBLIC IT'S ONLY A MATTER OF TIME. IT DOES SEEM LIKE A LONG PROCESS BUT TO COME UP WITH A CODE AND WRITE IT INTO POLICY AND DECIDE ON AN ALLOWABLE ALL TAKE NOT ONLY TIME BUT MONEY AND IT'S MONEY THEY DON'T WANT TO PART WITH.

Re: ESWT refused by insurance

Dr Zuckerman on 10/19/02 at 09:22 (097869)

What machine are you using? The ossatron or the dornier or the Sieman's.
ESWT has been a very effective procedure in the hunrdreds of patients we have treated over the past three years. I have found Pa. Blue Shield to be completely disorganized with handling so called 'coverage'. They just don't understand the cpt code. Try using 99499 as the code. Never use 0020T they won't understand that specific coding. Remember that just because you have a pre-certification for a specific patients does mean that the specific policy covers ESWT. Strange but true

Re: coding

Ed Davis, DPM on 10/19/02 at 12:44 (097895)

The primary code for ESWT applied to the plantar fascia is 0020T. The code 0019T is a general code for ESWT, not location specific. These codes are level 3 CPT codes to be used until a primary code is established.

CPT codes are proprietary codes published by the AMA. Unfortunately politics does arise when a decision is made to assign codes to procedures.
I was amazed when a number of honchos at the APMA lobbied successfully to get a code for endoscopic plantar fascial release. A dissapointment when you consider that a number of essential services go without adequate CPTcodes -- orthotics, for example.
Ed

Re: ESWT refused by insurance

KathyD on 10/21/02 at 13:54 (098032)

Lisa J,

What is the name of your office in Camp Hill, PA? I am looking for a doctor because I have a heel spur and would like to try ESWT ASAP! Thanks.

Re: ESWT refused by insurance

Dr. Zuckerman on 10/22/02 at 08:49 (098077)

Hi

We are in Pa, NJ and Del. If you would like our informational packet just e-mail Dr. Zuckerman @ (email removed). We are part of Lisa's group however we are the experienced ESWT group in the USA. So feel free to e-mail or ask any questions you may have.

Re: To Dr. Z. ESWT refused by insurance

Pauline on 10/22/02 at 16:03 (098092)

Dr. Zuckerman,
Just a comment about your post. I'm sorry Dr. Z but I inferred from reading this post a very direct solicitation of Kathy away from the doctors group that she was asking Lisa about.

She was seeking the location of Lisa's group and you didn't provide it. Instead you told her that although your part of Lisa's group, your group is really the 'experienced' one leaving her, this reader and perhaps others with the impression that the doctors in Lisa's group are unqualified and therefore shouldn't be tried.

I have no idea what your business relationship is with the physicians within Lisa's group, but to seemingly cut them totally out of the picture by not providing the poster with their location doesn't seem professional to me. I felt you showed no respect for the other doctors or their practice.

It's my understanding that professionals they don't directly solicit patients, client, or customers from each other. I feel in this case you broke that unwritten rule. Kathy directly asked Lisa for the location of her group.

I think it would have been more professional on your part had you first supplied Kathy with the location she was looking for and then offered your services if she was unsatisfied or required additional help.

Although perhaps not meaning to, I felt it came off as snatch and grab post.

Re: ESWT refused by insurance

Dr Zuckerman on 10/22/02 at 18:33 (098098)

It should be that we are NOT part of Lisa's group . We are a separate group.

Re: To Dr. Z. ESWT refused by insurance

Dr Zuckerman on 10/22/02 at 18:55 (098101)

It should read I don't belong to this group in Harrisburg. I would never try to steal a patient away from Lisa's group. By the way Lisa you should list the name of your group in the ESWT listing. I even have given advice to Lisa in the billing area.

Patients do have choices and I hope that this poster receives all the listing for ESWT groups including our group Excellence Shockwave Therapy

Thanks for pointing this out to me.

Re: To Dr. Z. ESWT refused by insurance

Pauline on 10/22/02 at 22:09 (098113)

There are outstanding physicians today, who practice medicine without a single line of advertisement anywhere, not even their name in a phone directory, yet hundreds if not thousands of patients find the way to their doors.

Re: To Dr. Z. ESWT refused by insurance

nancy s. on 10/23/02 at 08:38 (098134)

pauline, your problem with dr z's mentioning his services on this message board has now lasted for years. a few may agree with you, i don't know. i do know that many disagree with you on this and are tired of your repetitive complaining about it.

if you continue to have this problem, why don't you take it up with scott? it's his website. if he doesn't have a problem with dr z's posts, you should stop cluttering his message board with the same old personal-professional assault. if it still continues to bother you, you might consider taking your venting about it off the boards.

again, please take it up with scott. more than enough is more than enough.

nancy

Re: To Dr. Z. ESWT refused by insurance

DR. Z on 10/23/02 at 13:12 (098154)

What do you want with my life Pauline? You can always just change the TV channel if you don't like anything I do or say.

Re: To Dr. Z. ESWT refused by insurance

Pauline on 10/23/02 at 13:45 (098158)

I want you to be as blessed as Mother Theresa and Gandhi. Their reputations proceeded their presence. They never spoke about their greatness or their hard work, yet somehow everyone knew of them.

What an inspiration and example for the world.

Re: To Dr. Z. ESWT refused by insurance

nancy s. on 10/23/02 at 14:18 (098160)

actually, Mother Teresa and Gandhi did speak -- to the benefit of many. unless you can proclaim yourself on their high level (they would never have attacked as you do), i wouldn't be so arrogant in characterizing others and their motives, Ppauline.

your perspective appears quite distorted and unbalanced. you might benefit from taking a long look at it. however, that might not be as entertaining for you as sticking pins in people you consider not perfect.
.

Re: Pauline

Julie on 10/23/02 at 15:02 (098167)

Pauline, please just stop it. It isn't right, what you're doing. Your attitude to Dr Z has worried me for a long time, as I've had occasion to say before. He doesn't need anyone to defend him (though I personally see nothing wrong with his informing people of the services he provides) but I think you do need someone to point out that you're being arrogant as well as unfair.

Neither Gandhi nor Mother Theresa was perfect. Nor is Dr Z.

Nor are you.

Live and let live, and stop insisting that others live up to your unreasonable standards.

Re: Pauline

Pauline on 10/23/02 at 17:07 (098182)

Julie,
I find most people aspire to the highest standards expected of them. Your correct no one is perfect nor expected to be.

Dr. Z once posted he actually enjoyed our sparring, but what he enjoys more is watching you and the others rip me up and down for posting my honest opinions. One might call it his infallible protection. It's a pattern I've accepted.

I don't care if Dr. Z advertises here, but I do you really think it's an impossible task to achieve notoriety without making readers here think your the only legitimate treatment center in town or is it a matter of tact?

In my opinion, it's a reasonable conduct we should be able to expect because we see other doctors already doing it.

Re: To Dr. Z. ESWT refused by insurance

Pauline on 10/23/02 at 17:22 (098183)

Hi Nancy,
Your correct Mother Teresa and Gandhi did speak, but never to the benefit of themselves. Neither sought recognition for what they did or achieved in their lifetime, but everyone still knew them.

I recall Mother Teresa as a shy woman wishing only to do GOD'S work taking care of the poorest of the poor.

I don't ever remember her calling it Her work during the few interviews she gave. She always refered to it being the work of GOD.

Nancy, I think that is the key to one's success and achievement in everything we do.

Re: No, Pauline

Julie on 10/24/02 at 02:57 (098200)

It isn't you who is being 'ripped up and down'. It is Doctor Zuckerman who is being continually and sarcastically needled by you. I see no justification for this, and if I say so it is not, I repeat, because I think he needs defending, but because I dislike it very much.

I seriously doubt that he is 'trying to achieve notoriety'. I do him the justice of believing that he is motivated by the desire to help people. He offers information that may enable them to be helped. If this brings people to his practice, and they are helped, that is fine by me.

As for standards, it is not for you to dictate what other people's standards should be, and not for you to insist that they adhere to your idea of high ones. But if we are talking about standards, Dr Z's standards of care and treatment have been acknowlewdged here, by those who have experienced them, often enough for your carping to be seen for what it is.

Dragging in Gandhi and Mother Theresa is a red herring.

Re: To Dr. Z. ESWT refused by insurance

nancy s. on 10/24/02 at 07:26 (098207)

pauline, what do god, mother teresa, and gandhi have to do with any of this? you've put yourself on a very high horse. your voice is becoming faint from way up there.

i made my point in my first post in this thread to you: if you have a problem -- and you do -- take it up with scott, or take it off the board.

all the doctors on this board, without exception, give far more here than they receive. none deserves your tiresome putdowns, which have now turned absurd with your almighty references and comparisons.

bye now. i'm off to do my own work, which doesn't involve assaulting people's reputation and character for the fun of it. i've said all i'll say for now, and i'll end by wishing you well and suggesting that you take up a new hobby.

nancy
.

Re: No, Pauline

Rebekkah G. on 10/27/02 at 19:34 (098457)

Is this for real? What are these ridiculous remarks from someone named Pauline doing on a professional medical website anyway? What does this woman think she is doing? Her comments are ludicrous and we were actually laughing at her here!!!!! She's quite diabolical and I would never trust her judgment on anything. Whew!

Re: ESWT refused by insurance

LISA J on 10/17/02 at 17:15 (097767)

I DO BILLING FOR DOCTORS WHO DO ESWT'S. ALTHOUGH AT THIS TIMES MOST INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE NOT COVERING THE PROCEDURE WE HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT PA BLUE SHIELD WILL START COVERING AS OF 11/11/02. SOME ARE ACTUALLY GETTING PAID NOW BUT THOSE ARE FEW AND FAR BETWEEN. ONCE BLUE SHIELD STARTS IT IS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE KEYSTONE, AETNA, AND HEALTH AMERICA FOLLOW SUITE. THE REASON THEY WERE BEING DENIED IS THAT THE INSURANCE CO WAS SAYING THAT IT WAS EXPERIMENTAL. THAT CAN NO LONGER BE THE REASON SINCE THE FDA HAS APPROVED IT FOR THE TREATMENT OF PLANTAR FASCITIS.
PATIENTS SHOULD CONTINUE TO CALL THEIR INSURANCE COMPANIES AND DOCTORS OFFICES THAT ARE DOING THIS SHOULD SEND PAGES AND PAGES OF INFO ABOUT ESWT'S TO THE INSURANCE COMPANIES. THEY NO LONGER HAVE A REASON TO REJECT IT. IT IS NOT EXPERIMENTAL OR INVESTIGATIONAL. WE HAVE ALSO HAD GREAT SUCCESS WITH THIS PROCEDURE, FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN SUFFERING WITH HEEL PAIN FOR YEARS.

Re: ESWT refused by insurance

Dr Zuckerman on 10/17/02 at 22:11 (097783)

We have found that insurance companies just delay, reject and then delay some more. It is a ashame that such a wonderful procedure is being treated like this. It is my opinion that until there is a specific code for ESWT this type of problem will continue. Good luck. Where do you practice ?

Re: ESWT refused by insurance

Pauline on 10/18/02 at 10:30 (097808)

Dr.Z,
Although what your saying is true about insurance coverage for ESWT, there are also other FDA approved treatments that are being denied coverage for what I'd consider far more serious medical conditions. The latest one being the new treatment for people suffering from the Wet form of Macular Degeneration.

While denial for neither is acceptable, fortunately people don't go blind from not being able to get ESWT.

Although P.F. and TTS is the subject for this site, in the larger picture of health conditions we are far better off than those people being denied insurance coverage for more serious and dangerous illnesses.

I think given a choice most people here would choose P.F. over a more serious disease. Is having any health condition great? NO, but we tend to live in the moment. There are far worse conditions we could trade up to and still be denied insurance coverage without the chance or promise of a cure.

While we all nobly complain about no or slow insurance coverage for ESWT I think many of us have to take a look at what could be done for poorer patients today.

With 50 doctors on board, your ESWT medical group could surely lower it's charges for treatment to accommodate lower income persons needing ESWT treatment . This holds true for most centers in the U.S. People do what they want to do. Doctors are no different.

Would doctors in the U.S. that agree to lowering their fees lose income? Probably. Would their families starve or their bills go unpaid? Probably not.

I'm saying there is a way for lower income people to get the ESWT treatment they need without insurance coverage starting today, but maybe it's not just the insurance companies who are denying them, although they are certainly the easiest target to take all the blame.

Will this idea be popular with U.S. doctors and clinics? Definately not, but it's food for thought.

Re: ESWT refused by insurance

LISA J on 10/18/02 at 20:23 (097842)

OUR OFFICE IS LOCATED IN CAMP HILL, PA. WE STARTED DOING THE PROCEDURE IN
SEPTEMBER OF THIS YEAR. SLOWLY I AM MAKING PROGRESS WITH INSURANCE COMPANIES IN THIS AREA. CIGNA HAS AGREED TO COVER, LOOMIS, AND AS I SAID BLUE SHIELD OF PA IN NOVEMBER WILL COVER. THE COMPANY WHO OWNS THE MACHINE HOWEVER IS NON-PAR WITH ALL THESE INSURANCE COMPANIES WHICH IS CAUSING BILLING PROBLEMS OF A DIFFERENT NATURE. ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WITH THIS PROCEDURE NOT HAVING A CPT CODE IS THAT THE TEMPORARY CODE GIVEN 0020T
IS NOT RECOGNIZED. I HAVE ACTUALLY TRIED 28899 UNLISTED PROCEDURE CODE,WITH A WRITTEN DESCRIPTION, AND AN OP REPORT. ONE OF THE OTHER DANGERS IS AN INSURANCE COMPANY WILL SAY THEY WILL COVER THE PROCEDURE, BUT NOT TELL YOU THAT THEY ARE ONLY GOING TO ALLOW 100.00. IF YOUR A PAR PROVIDER YOU WOULD HAVE TO ACCEPT THIS. IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU GET A LETTER WITH THE AGREED UPON REIMBURSEMENT AMOUNT. AS MORE AND MORE ORTHOPEDIC SURGEONS AND PODIATRIST DO THIS PROCEDURE WITH SUCCESS IT IS JUST A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE THE INSURANCE COMPANIES DO COME AROUND. I REALIZE ORTHOTICS ARE NOT COVERED BY A LOT OF INSURANCE COMPANIES AND THERE IS GREAT SUCCESS WITH THEM, BUT I FEEL THIS IS DIFFERENT. THE DOCTORS IN THIS AREA ARE SPENDING THE TIME TO GET CERTIFIED TO DO THIS PROCEDURE AND I FEEL THEY ALL SEE THAT THIS IS THE FUTURE TREATMENT FOR CHRONIC PLANTAR FASCITIS. BETWEEN THE DEMAND FROM THE DOCTORS AND THE DEMAND FROM THE PUBLIC IT'S ONLY A MATTER OF TIME. IT DOES SEEM LIKE A LONG PROCESS BUT TO COME UP WITH A CODE AND WRITE IT INTO POLICY AND DECIDE ON AN ALLOWABLE ALL TAKE NOT ONLY TIME BUT MONEY AND IT'S MONEY THEY DON'T WANT TO PART WITH.

Re: ESWT refused by insurance

Dr Zuckerman on 10/19/02 at 09:22 (097869)

What machine are you using? The ossatron or the dornier or the Sieman's.
ESWT has been a very effective procedure in the hunrdreds of patients we have treated over the past three years. I have found Pa. Blue Shield to be completely disorganized with handling so called 'coverage'. They just don't understand the cpt code. Try using 99499 as the code. Never use 0020T they won't understand that specific coding. Remember that just because you have a pre-certification for a specific patients does mean that the specific policy covers ESWT. Strange but true

Re: coding

Ed Davis, DPM on 10/19/02 at 12:44 (097895)

The primary code for ESWT applied to the plantar fascia is 0020T. The code 0019T is a general code for ESWT, not location specific. These codes are level 3 CPT codes to be used until a primary code is established.

CPT codes are proprietary codes published by the AMA. Unfortunately politics does arise when a decision is made to assign codes to procedures.
I was amazed when a number of honchos at the APMA lobbied successfully to get a code for endoscopic plantar fascial release. A dissapointment when you consider that a number of essential services go without adequate CPTcodes -- orthotics, for example.
Ed

Re: ESWT refused by insurance

KathyD on 10/21/02 at 13:54 (098032)

Lisa J,

What is the name of your office in Camp Hill, PA? I am looking for a doctor because I have a heel spur and would like to try ESWT ASAP! Thanks.

Re: ESWT refused by insurance

Dr. Zuckerman on 10/22/02 at 08:49 (098077)

Hi

We are in Pa, NJ and Del. If you would like our informational packet just e-mail Dr. Zuckerman @ (email removed). We are part of Lisa's group however we are the experienced ESWT group in the USA. So feel free to e-mail or ask any questions you may have.

Re: To Dr. Z. ESWT refused by insurance

Pauline on 10/22/02 at 16:03 (098092)

Dr. Zuckerman,
Just a comment about your post. I'm sorry Dr. Z but I inferred from reading this post a very direct solicitation of Kathy away from the doctors group that she was asking Lisa about.

She was seeking the location of Lisa's group and you didn't provide it. Instead you told her that although your part of Lisa's group, your group is really the 'experienced' one leaving her, this reader and perhaps others with the impression that the doctors in Lisa's group are unqualified and therefore shouldn't be tried.

I have no idea what your business relationship is with the physicians within Lisa's group, but to seemingly cut them totally out of the picture by not providing the poster with their location doesn't seem professional to me. I felt you showed no respect for the other doctors or their practice.

It's my understanding that professionals they don't directly solicit patients, client, or customers from each other. I feel in this case you broke that unwritten rule. Kathy directly asked Lisa for the location of her group.

I think it would have been more professional on your part had you first supplied Kathy with the location she was looking for and then offered your services if she was unsatisfied or required additional help.

Although perhaps not meaning to, I felt it came off as snatch and grab post.

Re: ESWT refused by insurance

Dr Zuckerman on 10/22/02 at 18:33 (098098)

It should be that we are NOT part of Lisa's group . We are a separate group.

Re: To Dr. Z. ESWT refused by insurance

Dr Zuckerman on 10/22/02 at 18:55 (098101)

It should read I don't belong to this group in Harrisburg. I would never try to steal a patient away from Lisa's group. By the way Lisa you should list the name of your group in the ESWT listing. I even have given advice to Lisa in the billing area.

Patients do have choices and I hope that this poster receives all the listing for ESWT groups including our group Excellence Shockwave Therapy

Thanks for pointing this out to me.

Re: To Dr. Z. ESWT refused by insurance

Pauline on 10/22/02 at 22:09 (098113)

There are outstanding physicians today, who practice medicine without a single line of advertisement anywhere, not even their name in a phone directory, yet hundreds if not thousands of patients find the way to their doors.

Re: To Dr. Z. ESWT refused by insurance

nancy s. on 10/23/02 at 08:38 (098134)

pauline, your problem with dr z's mentioning his services on this message board has now lasted for years. a few may agree with you, i don't know. i do know that many disagree with you on this and are tired of your repetitive complaining about it.

if you continue to have this problem, why don't you take it up with scott? it's his website. if he doesn't have a problem with dr z's posts, you should stop cluttering his message board with the same old personal-professional assault. if it still continues to bother you, you might consider taking your venting about it off the boards.

again, please take it up with scott. more than enough is more than enough.

nancy

Re: To Dr. Z. ESWT refused by insurance

DR. Z on 10/23/02 at 13:12 (098154)

What do you want with my life Pauline? You can always just change the TV channel if you don't like anything I do or say.

Re: To Dr. Z. ESWT refused by insurance

Pauline on 10/23/02 at 13:45 (098158)

I want you to be as blessed as Mother Theresa and Gandhi. Their reputations proceeded their presence. They never spoke about their greatness or their hard work, yet somehow everyone knew of them.

What an inspiration and example for the world.

Re: To Dr. Z. ESWT refused by insurance

nancy s. on 10/23/02 at 14:18 (098160)

actually, Mother Teresa and Gandhi did speak -- to the benefit of many. unless you can proclaim yourself on their high level (they would never have attacked as you do), i wouldn't be so arrogant in characterizing others and their motives, Ppauline.

your perspective appears quite distorted and unbalanced. you might benefit from taking a long look at it. however, that might not be as entertaining for you as sticking pins in people you consider not perfect.
.

Re: Pauline

Julie on 10/23/02 at 15:02 (098167)

Pauline, please just stop it. It isn't right, what you're doing. Your attitude to Dr Z has worried me for a long time, as I've had occasion to say before. He doesn't need anyone to defend him (though I personally see nothing wrong with his informing people of the services he provides) but I think you do need someone to point out that you're being arrogant as well as unfair.

Neither Gandhi nor Mother Theresa was perfect. Nor is Dr Z.

Nor are you.

Live and let live, and stop insisting that others live up to your unreasonable standards.

Re: Pauline

Pauline on 10/23/02 at 17:07 (098182)

Julie,
I find most people aspire to the highest standards expected of them. Your correct no one is perfect nor expected to be.

Dr. Z once posted he actually enjoyed our sparring, but what he enjoys more is watching you and the others rip me up and down for posting my honest opinions. One might call it his infallible protection. It's a pattern I've accepted.

I don't care if Dr. Z advertises here, but I do you really think it's an impossible task to achieve notoriety without making readers here think your the only legitimate treatment center in town or is it a matter of tact?

In my opinion, it's a reasonable conduct we should be able to expect because we see other doctors already doing it.

Re: To Dr. Z. ESWT refused by insurance

Pauline on 10/23/02 at 17:22 (098183)

Hi Nancy,
Your correct Mother Teresa and Gandhi did speak, but never to the benefit of themselves. Neither sought recognition for what they did or achieved in their lifetime, but everyone still knew them.

I recall Mother Teresa as a shy woman wishing only to do GOD'S work taking care of the poorest of the poor.

I don't ever remember her calling it Her work during the few interviews she gave. She always refered to it being the work of GOD.

Nancy, I think that is the key to one's success and achievement in everything we do.

Re: No, Pauline

Julie on 10/24/02 at 02:57 (098200)

It isn't you who is being 'ripped up and down'. It is Doctor Zuckerman who is being continually and sarcastically needled by you. I see no justification for this, and if I say so it is not, I repeat, because I think he needs defending, but because I dislike it very much.

I seriously doubt that he is 'trying to achieve notoriety'. I do him the justice of believing that he is motivated by the desire to help people. He offers information that may enable them to be helped. If this brings people to his practice, and they are helped, that is fine by me.

As for standards, it is not for you to dictate what other people's standards should be, and not for you to insist that they adhere to your idea of high ones. But if we are talking about standards, Dr Z's standards of care and treatment have been acknowlewdged here, by those who have experienced them, often enough for your carping to be seen for what it is.

Dragging in Gandhi and Mother Theresa is a red herring.

Re: To Dr. Z. ESWT refused by insurance

nancy s. on 10/24/02 at 07:26 (098207)

pauline, what do god, mother teresa, and gandhi have to do with any of this? you've put yourself on a very high horse. your voice is becoming faint from way up there.

i made my point in my first post in this thread to you: if you have a problem -- and you do -- take it up with scott, or take it off the board.

all the doctors on this board, without exception, give far more here than they receive. none deserves your tiresome putdowns, which have now turned absurd with your almighty references and comparisons.

bye now. i'm off to do my own work, which doesn't involve assaulting people's reputation and character for the fun of it. i've said all i'll say for now, and i'll end by wishing you well and suggesting that you take up a new hobby.

nancy
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Re: No, Pauline

Rebekkah G. on 10/27/02 at 19:34 (098457)

Is this for real? What are these ridiculous remarks from someone named Pauline doing on a professional medical website anyway? What does this woman think she is doing? Her comments are ludicrous and we were actually laughing at her here!!!!! She's quite diabolical and I would never trust her judgment on anything. Whew!