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Treatment List - comments requested

Posted by Lara T on 11/01/02 at 09:48 (098890)

Following is a list of possible treatments I have compiled from the archives of this message board & TTS. I welcome your comments, suggestions, corrections, etc. for accuracy, completeness, readability and reference.

TREATMENTS FOR PLANTAR FASCITIS &/OR TARSAL TUNNEL SYNDROME.
(The two are not combined because treatments are interchangeable. They are combined because 1) many treatments do help both conditions 2) some people with diagnosed PF actually have TTS. I don't know if the reverse is also true.

TREATMENT #1: never go barefoot (except possibly in soft sand - so those on the beach may get to feel the air on their feet again)
Treatment #2 don't cheat and go barefoot just to run upstairs, or get something from the other room.
Treatments 3. . . . .:

SHOES (check out Foot Performance Center on Monroe Ave)
Merrill (all Merrill are not created equal check out the particular shoe)
New Balance - (all New Balance are not created equal check out the particular shoe)
Some people have also mentioned Nike.
Dansko clogs
Find a shoe store that is run/owned/managed by the people who make orthotics. They often have 1) the expertise to know which shoes match your symptoms and 2) a good selection of shoes. As bonuses, you don't have to sift through a lot of lousy shoes and the stores are often modest in size and so service is prompt and responsive. (The ones I know about carry Merrill, Dansko & New Balance).

NON INVASIVE
-orthotics (traditional, Dr. Kiper),
-compression socks
- taping (see Scotts heelbook, online)
-nightsplints or strassburg sock
-ice (daily and/or after activities. You can get ice packs that fit -nicely to the foot). I've heard reports of this being much more successful than would be anticipated, even 15 min/day at the end of the day
stretching
- (check out thread called 'Julie's stretches' in the archives)
-My experience is that direct massage of the inflamed area makes PF MUCH worse. I am currently getting professional massage from arch to toes only, and focussing on trigger points in calf, hammy, and even quads. I have one point on my calf (that thin strappy lateral muscle, talus?) that if you rub across the trigger point it feels like you are rubbing the arch

TREATMENTS: Massage (deep friction, ART, deep tissue, w/ biofreeze/ ibuprofen cream/Vit 3, Trigger Point on calves/hamstrings, Rolfing, cross-friction), ART, ESWT, surgery
-aggressive stretching (see archives. Some stretches can harm PF)
-contrast baths
-Pilates, strengthening, and balance exercises, etc.
-boot cast, cam walker, etc. to immobilize foot
-massage sandals
-Vitamin B/B12 (some people take mega doses - be careful as to which vitamins can cause toxic reactions)

-ESWT (for PF, not TTS?)
-ART (type of massage)
-Trigger Point Massage Therapy

HOME REMEDIES
Ice
hamstring stretches
'aggressive stretching'
taping (see instructions on web site)
rest
Epson salt soak
yoga

-Capsazin cream
- Ibuprofen cream
Oral dose packs of cortisone have helped some. Also there are much more powerful topical creams that can be compounded by a pharmacist at the request of a doctor that can be much more effective than otc ibuprophen cream. They may contain ingredients like ketamine, ketaprophen, gahapentin, etc. A lot of these medications are much better at not only killing pain, but preventing the nerves from over firing. Even simple ibuprofen cream could be compounded by your local pharmacist.
oitin (In the past I experimented with different brands. SOLGAR is the one that works on me. When I first started taking G/C I started with SCHIFF brand from a neighbor who had it (she bought it from Costco). I tried getting a cheaper brand at my health food store, other than Solgar, but it didn't work.)
Oral dose packs of cortisone have helped some. Also there are much more powerful topical creams that can be compounded by a pharmacist at the request of a doctor that can be much more effective than otc ibuprophen cream. They may contain ingredients like ketamine, ketaprophen, gahapentin, etc. A lot of these medications are much better at not only killing pain, but preventing the nerves from over firing. Even simple Ibuprofen cream could be compounded by your local pharmacist.

*************
MINIMALLY INVASIVE (but not necessarily without significant side effects)
-Cortisone shots
-OTC Medications:
Glujcosamine & Chondrotin (person reporting said brand makes a difference)

Antiinflammatories (There are many anti-inflammatory drugs out there with patients responding very differently. What works best for one patient if often not what works best for the next. Ed)

-NSAIDS aspirin, ibuprofen
-COX-2 Inhibitors= Vioxx, Celebrex, . . .

I'm not sure how the following pain relievers are classified. If anyone knows, please let me know.
-Mobic (Mobic is as a drug halfway between a classical anti-inflammatory and a cox-2 inhibitor. Mobic can thus be harder on the GI system.)
Bextra

-Rx Medications: Neurontin, Elavil
-PT like iontophoresis (sp)? with a steroid

DRUGS-RX
neurontin
muscle relaxants
flexril
Jade

INVASIVE
-PF release surgery
-TT release surgery

When NOTHING works:
-consider a pain management clinic/doctor.
(I'm not sure how long you should suffer, or how many things you should try first. If in doubt, call a pain management doctor and ask.
2 things to consider:
1. a pain management doctor will know how to manage pain. She or he won't necessarily know what treatments you haven't tried for PF/TTS that might work.
2. Many of the the treatments pain management has are heavy duty drugs. This isn't bad. But I would want to be sure I'd tried lots of other stuff first.

Posted by john h on 3/02/2000
i was thinking today of some possible treatments for PF that no one has tried:
1. Faith healer
2. In some societies they beat your feet with a cane if you do something bad. Might help?
3. Witch Doctor? Hey! Why not it beats a cortisone shot!
4. Radiation. Tie a rod of plutonium 238 around your foot.
5. Bio-feedback. good luck!
5. Break both legs which will force you into bed for 4 or 5 months. (something less drastic which I tried unintentionally but very effectively - get a fungal infection requiring soaking 6x day for a week, or have knee surgery).
6. Psycharisit. some idiots think the pain is in our head.
7. I once had a wart on my hand. my grandmother had me rub it with a dirty wash cloth and then bury the cloth. For real- the wart went away. Unfortunately, my wife does not keep any dirty dishcloths around.
8. Get a boyfriend like Brad Pitt or girlfriend like Julia Roberts and forget your pain.

Re: Faith Healing

Jan H. on 11/01/02 at 11:20 (098908)

Hi I just wanted to make a small comment-although I haven't mentioned it at all here, I did ask for prayer for my PF-and got almost immediate relief. It lasted about 3 or 4 years but now my PF is back with a vengance, Don't underestimate the power of prayer in Jesus name. I don't have any explanation about why it doesn't work all the time or for all people or even why I can't seem to get relief now, but I know it works. God is good.

Re: Treatment List - comments requested

R C on 11/01/02 at 12:35 (098915)

My PF was cured mainly as a result of cast and crutches. It was not a boot cast, but rather the hard fiberglass kind they use for fractures. Casting seems to get a bad rap around here, but I think that may be because (1) a lot of people try to walk with the cast on (hey, that's what the nurses told me), and that can't possibly help; (2) a patient might erroneously expect to be able to walk the moment the cast is removed, (though in reality there is usually much work left to be done by a physical therapist) and end up re-injuring himself. But in my case the cast worked afer I had exhausted just about everything else.

Re: Faith Healing

Necee on 11/01/02 at 13:16 (098919)

Amen Jan!!!! He is good, and we don't understand why our prayers are not answered right away...but he does, he has reasons, maybe to show us patience, or to practice our faith more, or simply to allow us to remain close to him and lean on him more. All I know is, life is always good, with or without pain when God is in it.

Happy trails...

Necee

Re: Faith Healing

Lara T on 11/01/02 at 14:16 (098924)

It's been added. : )

Re: Faith Healing

Leon S. on 11/01/02 at 14:19 (098925)

Why does the prayer have to be in Jesus' name?

Re: Faith Healing

Jan H. on 11/01/02 at 23:36 (098979)

Because Jesus is the only way to the Father-He is the bridge between us and a God who is Holy. He said, He is the Way, the Truth and the Life and no one comes to the Father except through Him. I believe that.

Re: Faith Healing

BrianJ on 11/02/02 at 10:30 (099024)

Jan --

Is it your opinion that Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Bhuddists, etc. who engage in faith healing are wasting their time? While I respect your opinion (and your faith), I hope that we on the Heelspurs site will not alienate those of diverse faiths.

Re: Faith Healing

Leon S. on 11/02/02 at 13:27 (099038)

I guess we non-Christians are doomed to PF hell.

Re: Faith Healing

john h on 11/02/02 at 14:26 (099047)

Leon: In Vietnam I prayed to every God I ever read about or could think about. That old saying there are no atheist in fox holes has some relevance. There is another saying I remember 'If your boat is sinking, pray a lot but keep rowing for shore'.

Re: Faith Healing

Carole C in NOLA on 11/02/02 at 14:36 (099048)

Sounds good to me. I'm not a religious person at all, except in a vague and nonspecific sort of way, but I did what I could in that department and I guess one might say that I sure rowed like crazy.

Carole C

Re: Faith Healing

Mahatmelissama on 11/02/02 at 15:47 (099065)

Leon, if somebody is inerrantist, that is, they take the Bible to be completely true, then they believe John 14:6. Look it up if you want to
know what that means. Many Christians are errantists. They respect the Bible but don't take it literally.

With that said, it says in the word that those who seek Him will be rewarded Hebrews 11:6...and I will leave you with this:

'The prosperity or wellness or shalom is not a reward for our goodness. It is part of the hiddenness of God. The rain falls upon the righteous and sinner alike.' - from Psalm 104

PF falls into this category and so does healing from it.

PS: I am a blantant Jesus Freak. I believe what I believe, it is my life.
PPS: This does NOT mean that I don't welcome people of other faiths into my life nor that I don't pray for their healing as well.
PPPS: I hope this helps does not harm.

Thx.

Re: Faith Healing

Leon S. on 11/02/02 at 18:01 (099088)

John, I agree with you. It just irks me when people wave certain specifics of their own religion in your/my face and insist that it is THE ONLY ANSWER to either salvation or in our cases, healing. I find it naive and in some respects disrespectful. This is far from what this web sight is about and yet I find this new wrinkle in the discussions somewhat interesting because I'm sure alot of the contributors are interested in learning something more about the different writers than just their feet....or am I wrong? If I am, I'll just go back and play in my sandbox.

Re: Faith Healing

Leon S. on 11/02/02 at 18:16 (099089)

Welcoming 'people of other faiths into your life' and praying for them sounds a bit condescending to me. It's almost as if, because they are 'of other faiths' they aren't good enough to pray for themselves or that if they do, they won't get the same results because they are not of your faith...You can be a 'blatant Jesus Freak' all you want, just don't deny anyone else the respect that their own beliefs teach. After all, for most of us, we are all (at one time or another) praying to the same God. The difference is whether we take one road or another. The end result should be the same.

Re: Faith Healing

nancy s. on 11/02/02 at 20:12 (099105)

leon, please don't just go back and play in your sandbox. i'm with ya, for whatever that's worth.

nancy.
.

Re: philosphy, religion, polictics or view on finance

Mahatmelissama on 11/02/02 at 20:35 (099108)

You know, many people died so that this country could worship any way they chose and that is what makes this country great and fantastic. You don't have to agree with somebody's philosphy, religion, polictics or view on finance to love somebody and be their friend and...to respect them.

Re: Faith Healing

Jan H. on 11/02/02 at 23:53 (099127)

I believe Jesus Christ is the only way to God and knowing Him (clinging to, trusting in relying on Him) is the only way to heaven. Sorry if that alienates you, but the fact that some are offended doesn't change the Truth.., I think budists, muslims, atheists ect... have every right to believe whatever they want. However, He is the One who said He was the Way-He said, 'No one comes to the Father except through Me.' You'll have to take it up with Him.

Re: Faith Healing

john h on 11/03/02 at 11:19 (099158)

Leon: stay out of the sandbox you might get fleas. Watch out for Nancy S. as she wears socks with cats on them and could easily be associated with those famous ladies from Salem (she lives near there).

Re: Faith Healing

Julie on 11/03/02 at 12:08 (099170)

Leon, try not to let this get to you. Like you, I believe there is only one God. He or she is conceived in different forms and worshipped under different names and in different ways by people of different faiths.In some faiths (e.g. Judaism) God is nameless and formless. In others (e.g. Hinduism) God has takes different forms/aspects and has many different names. This is incomprehensible to some, but it works for Hindus.

Yet there are many people who believe that their faith is the only faith. They are as entitled to that belief as you and I are to ours, and I think it's probably better not to take offense, or to argue about these matters.

So forget your sandbox and stay and play here!

Re: Faith Healing

nancy s. on 11/03/02 at 17:58 (099198)

john, i don't want to spook you or anything, but i used to live IN salem, right before i moved to maine. i'd lived in the city so long before that that i thought when i moved to salem i was moving to the country! ha.

i was not into witchcraft. i do like their crystals, although mica would be better.

nancy.

Re: Those of us who believe in Jesus are not "freaks".

Necee on 11/04/02 at 01:13 (099234)

I'm with you Jan and Melissa.
I know what my Bible says, and I believe every word. He also tells us to, 'put no other Gods before me'. Therefore, I believe and worship only him. His word also says, 'If you deny me before men, I will deny you before my father'.
All of us will never agree on the topic of religion, but we can state our beliefs, and not chastise others for what they believe in. We are allowed to make choices in our own lives, and one day we will all be held accountable for those choices.

Happy trails...

Necee

Re: Faith Healing

Leon S on 11/04/02 at 09:32 (099256)

Julie, John and Nancy, Thanks for your support. As a matter of fact, I was really fired up because of another insensitive message which I read yesterday and didn't have time to respond to and now it appears to have been removed. All along I have been saying that everyone should be free to worship, pray and/or observe any way they like but in the framework of what this country is up against in terms of religious zealotry, it is abit insulting to imply that one's religion is better than someone elses and that if 'we' don't believe the way 'they' do, we are either doomed or lesser people for it. My sandbox is getting crowded.

Re: Those of us who believe in Jesus are not "freaks".

Leon S on 11/04/02 at 09:43 (099257)

Be advised that the 1st reference to 'Jesus Freak' was made by Jan.

Re: My apologies re. "Jesus Freaks"

Leon S on 11/04/02 at 09:58 (099259)

My apologies to Jan for the ealier post regarding the use of the phrase 'Jesus Freak'. Upon further checking, it was first used by Mahatmelissama about herself.

Re: philosphy, religion, polictics or view on finance

Leon S on 11/04/02 at 10:25 (099265)

You are abolutely correct about not having to agree with someone's philosophy, religion etc. to respect them. RESPECT is the key word here. I've read and seen too much about certain people believing that their 'way' is the 'only way'. That does not connote respect. In our time, we have seen one nation's attempt to annhialate my religious group from it's very existence and I will be damned if I will sit by and allow someone to claim that their religious belief is more correct or better than mine or anyone else...Now I'm through.

Re: Why I call myself a "Jesus Freak"

Mahatmelissama on 11/04/02 at 10:27 (099266)

I am a self-decribed 'Jesus freak' since I embrace the term. It doesn't offend me since I am a freak for Jesus. DC Talk had a semi-hit in the Christian top songs called 'Jesus Freak', which is where I get the title.
I also used to call myself Fat Christian Chick but that makes people think I hate myself and I don't love my inner-child (which I do, but I have a wicked dry sense of humor that never quits).

Leon, I understand how Jesus Freaks come across to you since I didn't always used to be one and felt the same way you did (believe it or not). I do believe that Jesus is the only answer but ditto as Julie wisely said (above). I try to act loving in my respone to the world.

I am all about peace harmony and joy here and not anarchy on the boards, no matter how I may have come acros.

Shalom.

Re: Elton John's song "Tiny Dancer" ALSO contains the word "Jesus Freaks"

Mahatmelissama on 11/04/02 at 10:27 (099267)

eom.

Re: philosphy, religion, polictics or view on finance

Leon S on 11/04/02 at 10:31 (099268)

You are abolutely correct about not having to agree with someone's philosophy, religion etc. to respect them. RESPECT is the key word here. I've read and seen too much about certain people believing that their 'way' is the 'only way'. That does not connote respect. In our time, we have seen one nation's attempt to annihilate my religious group from it's very existence and I will be damned if I will sit by and allow someone to claim that their religious belief is more correct or better than mine or anyone else...Now I'm through.

Re: "Jesus Freaks"

Necee on 11/04/02 at 14:45 (099307)

I know who made the post regarding Jesus freaks.
I was simply saying that I don't feel like a 'freak'. My dictionary describes a freak as... someone being queer; or very strange. So using the term 'Jesus freak' sounds very inappropriate to me. Now thats just my opinion here, so don't any of you take it personally, ok.

Happy trails....

Necee

Re: re: Jesus Freaks, Necee

Jan H. on 11/04/02 at 15:21 (099311)

Hi Necee

I bought my first pair of Birkenstocks today!!! I think I got a good price and I sure hope they help.
Well, freaks maybe not, but we are strangers and aliens in this land, a peculiar people, if you will. The more I look around and see what the world has to offer, the more I'm glad of that. :)

Re: philosphy, religion, polictics or view on finance

Jan H. on 11/04/02 at 15:34 (099314)

I'm sorry if I offend you but yes, I do most definitly believe Jesus is the Only Way-If you don't well,ok, that is your perogitive but as for me, If I didn't believe that He was the only Way, then I would keep looking. With every fiber of my being I know Jesus is the Way to the Father, it is not just a 'belief' with me. Let's put it this way, if we were both in a burning building and I knew the only way out, what would happen if I wouldn't share that with you and knowingly let you go further into the fire, because I was afraid I would 'offend' you if I told you where the door is?
I'm not promoting a church or a denomination, if you look through my posts you'll never see that, I'm just telling you Who is the door.

Re: philosphy, religion, polictics or view on finance

Leon S. on 11/04/02 at 15:55 (099315)

Let's stop playing word games. We're not talking about saving someone in a burning building. As a matter of fact, to take your analogy one step into reality, remember the incident in Saudi Arabia where dozens of school girls were allowed to die in a burning building because the 'religious police' wouldn't allow them to be rescued because they weren't dressed properly to be seen in public. That is what happens when religious extremism takes control. Your last sentence says that you are not promoting a church or a denomination, you are just TELLING me what to believe. Can't you understand that it is wrong for you to tell me that? You are not saving me. I can have my own strong beliefs about what I need for salvation but I am not presumptive enough to try and impose them on you or anyone else.

Re: Ship of Fools might be a good site for you Leon

Mahatmelissama on 11/04/02 at 16:09 (099317)

Psst...a better place to debate religion is http://www.ship-of-fools.com I am dropping this conversation after this post since I come here for healing and support for my feet, not to debate religion. I go over there [Ship of Fools] to debate to my heart's content.

You can peek and if it ain't your cup of tea - no harm done cause ain't nobody will no.

Re: philosphy, religion, polictics or view on finance

Nancy N on 11/04/02 at 16:59 (099325)

Leon (and others)--

I am only going to make one post on this thread, because I really don't want to get pulled into an emotionally exhausting argument. But I wanted to let you know that you have very nicely summed up my entire problem with Christianity (mostly, but not completely, the 'Christian right.') I was raised as a Christian but my conscience tells me that I cannot truly belong to a group that engages in mass attempts to 'convert' others. Their beliefs are their beliefs, and they are as entitled to them as I am to mine. I have a lot of trouble attaching a Christian label to my beliefs, which is why I don't label them at all anymore.

I wonder sometimes if those who are attempting to convert someone would understand the feeling better if a Jew, Buddhist, Hindu, etc etc etc were the one trying to convert them! It seems to be a phenomenon that limits itself only/mostly to Christian circles, which I find interesting.

If you go back and look at comparative mythology, you see that no one religion has the monopoly on the Flood, the Virgin Birth, the Resurrection, etc. Different versions of the same stories exist all over the place. So for any one group to claim theirs is the only 'right' way just baffles me. Seems to me that it is one basic story with many different tellings. We won't know anything for sure until after we die--in the meantime, can't we all just get along, and respect (or--gasp!--embrace) each other's differences?

What an unfathomably dull world this would be if we were all the same...

Re: philosphy, religion, polictics or view on finance

Jan H. on 11/04/02 at 17:03 (099326)

I'm not 'telling you' what to believe, I'm telling you what is true, if you don't want to believe it, that's your right. I most certianly am not trying to 'save you', I don't have any power to do that even if I wanted to. If your beliefs about salvation are 'strong' as you say they are, then you should most assuredly share them. No one is telling you not to. If they are not strong enough to share then you really don't believe anyway. Shame on you for comparing my beliefs about salvation to burning up children in a school. Why don't we drop it here and agree to disagree-in eternity, when every knee shall bow, we will agree.

Re: To Leon

Jan H. on 11/04/02 at 17:11 (099329)

I don't know what religion you are Leon, but if you are Jewish, which is what I got from your post, then I want to say, that I for one, do respect your faith. You might not know this, but I as a Christian have almost as much love for the Holy Places as you and the very thought of stepping on the Jewish Holy Land brings me to tears. Please, do not take my posts about Jesus as offensive. He is our bridge to God, not our goodness or our heritage. He is Jewish you know.

Re: To Leon

Leon S. on 11/04/02 at 18:16 (099337)

This can of worms makes my feet hurt.

Re: To Leon

Dr. Zuckerman on 11/04/02 at 18:25 (099340)

I am jewish. I am going to say just one thing. Tell one thing that Jesus said that wasn't great !! At the very least he is the greatest man that ever lived. By the way that is the title of a book about his life. So lets all enjoy !! I have no idea what the theme of this post is but I just wanted to add this

Re: To Leon

Leon S. on 11/04/02 at 19:21 (099347)

Dayenu!!

Re: To Leon

Mahatmelissama on 11/04/02 at 20:13 (099351)

Dr. Z, I worship in a synagogue (my church rents it). We actually have to cook kosher (I have assisted and there is much more to it then I previously thought...seperate dish washers and seperate sponges even!)

Anyhoo...many Christians are very protective of Jews/Israel since the bible is clear that they are a chosen people by God.

When my pastor and elders talked to the rabbi and leaders in the Beth Jacob synagogue and said 'We DO PREACH about Jesus being the only way...is that ok?' The answer was 'Yeah, we know. Just make sure you don't protesize Jews and it is very important you COOK KOSHER.'

People in my church have sat in kosher cooking classes...and we all have a pretty good relationship with the Jews in my church/synaguge, even with the 'kitchen god' (I forgot the Hebrew name for the kosher police).

Re: To Leon

Mahatmelissama on 11/04/02 at 20:16 (099352)

I don't need worms for my feet to hurt...all I need are those nice weight bearing stretches that everyone thinks are so helpful, a la the RUNNERS STRETCH>>>SHUDDER<<<< I get SCARED even thinking about that one...pain pain pain.

Re: Faith Healing

Ed Davis, DPM on 11/04/02 at 22:07 (099369)

Julie:
Very well stated! There must be a reason that God has laid out multiple paths to him and I worry about those who insist theirs is the only path. A lot of conflict has occured and is still occurring simply based on that attitude.
Regards,
Ed

Re: philosphy, religion, polictics or view on finance

Ed Davis, DPM on 11/04/02 at 22:12 (099370)

Nancy:
We have been granted free will by God so we can ask questions. Why did God create so many paths, as Julie stated, to him? Would he not have created one path only if that was what he wanted?
Ed

Re: To: Jan

Necee on 11/04/02 at 23:07 (099387)

Tell me where you got your Birks. And what kind did you get? I sure hope they help you, remember it takes a few weeks to get them acclimated to your feet. You should only wear them a few hours a day at the begining.
Good luck Jan, I'll be praying that this is the answer to your PF.
Yes, I know what your saying about feeling like a stranger in this land, the Bible says we will be persecuted for our beliefs.
Hope we can keep in touch,
Happy trails....

Necee

Re: To: Jan

Jan H. on 11/05/02 at 06:26 (099394)

Hi,
I got them at a store called Performance footwear near Pittsburgh, PA-they are Tokyo clogs and were $55. They have just a strap in the back and I wanted closed back, but this is all they had except for sandles. I wore them for a little while yesterday and they seemed to be ok-except my foot on the left seemed a little wide for the heel cup-the other fit ok though. Tried the wrong one on I guess. I am going to wear them to work tonight-but I will take my old athletic shoes with me.
Jan

Re: Faith Healing

john h on 11/05/02 at 10:06 (099409)

Nancy: you lived in Salem and like cats and are into antiques. I will be careful not to offend you in the future. Is Judy part of your group?

Sidebar for real: On my second trip to Vietnam I boarded a Flying Tirger airliner. I sat in the very first row at the door with the stewardess sitting across from me. Sitting next to me was a young Army guy. As we were flying along I noticed him writing in what appeared to be some foreign language. After a while I asked him what language he was writing in. He responed 'I am a Warlock' and this is our language. He further told me his Coven was in San Francisco. I was totally speechless and the Flight Attendant who was listening to this conversation seemed somewhat alarmed.I asked him a few more questions about his religion (Wicken) and he happily told me some of his beliefs. I was somewhat anxious for the remainder of the flight as was the Flight Attendant who later called aside and asked if I thought he was dangerous.

Re: re: Jesus Freaks, Necee

john h on 11/05/02 at 10:16 (099411)

Jan: Be patient with your new Birks as it will normally take a few weeks to become accustomed to them.

Re: To Leon

john h on 11/05/02 at 10:21 (099412)

Hey guys and girls: As you all can plainly see religion and politics discussions will not change anyones mind and only create bad feelings. Everyone be nice and read the book 'All I Ever Needed To Know I Learned in The First Grade'. Suzanned I know I have that title wrong but you will surely know the correct title.

Re: Faith Healing

JudyS on 11/05/02 at 10:48 (099419)

John - I adore cats and antiques, and I think I gave those cat sox to Nancy so I sure hope I'm part of her 'group'! Although I've never lived in Salem.........never smoked them either! :)

Re: To Leon

Julie on 11/06/02 at 02:29 (099477)

You know it too, John, but for those who don't (and I heartily second your recommendation) it's 'All I Ever Needed to Know I Learned in Kindergarten', by Robert Fulghum. Come to think of it it might be 'Everything...'

Re: To Leon

Nancy N on 11/06/02 at 05:49 (099490)

'All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten: Uncommon Thoughts on Common Things.' Great book.

Re: Faith Healing

john h on 11/07/02 at 10:32 (099560)

Hey Judy you are dating yourself with those Salem smokes. Bet you do no remember Wings which came with a small picture of an aircraft?

Re: Faith Healing

pala on 11/09/02 at 16:27 (099679)

leon , you seem very intelligent. i agree with you but this is an argument that will get you nowhere. believe me. i live in the deep south. ,
i have learned to be very tolerant. my physical therapist, the best i ever had is a literalist christian republican. thought about just leaving when she told me this. then i thought well, she's a great person and a great therapist. she and i can laugh and care about each other even tho we come from such opposite poles. i think we can all get along here and we all want the same thing here. a pain free life.

Re: Faith Healing

pala on 11/09/02 at 16:46 (099681)

actually i would prefer this subject kept to social board since this subject can be very wordy and space taking up and controversial.

Re: Faith Healing

Leon S. on 11/10/02 at 17:27 (099735)

Pala, I made my points and have dropped this thread a week ago. You missed all the fun. Thanks for your input anyway.

Re: Faith Healing

pala on 11/10/02 at 18:10 (099736)

the capacity to drop a contentious thread comes close to sainthood on online discussion boards. now just become an old hippy like me and embrace your birkies for eternity.

Re: Faith Healing

Jan H. on 11/01/02 at 11:20 (098908)

Hi I just wanted to make a small comment-although I haven't mentioned it at all here, I did ask for prayer for my PF-and got almost immediate relief. It lasted about 3 or 4 years but now my PF is back with a vengance, Don't underestimate the power of prayer in Jesus name. I don't have any explanation about why it doesn't work all the time or for all people or even why I can't seem to get relief now, but I know it works. God is good.

Re: Treatment List - comments requested

R C on 11/01/02 at 12:35 (098915)

My PF was cured mainly as a result of cast and crutches. It was not a boot cast, but rather the hard fiberglass kind they use for fractures. Casting seems to get a bad rap around here, but I think that may be because (1) a lot of people try to walk with the cast on (hey, that's what the nurses told me), and that can't possibly help; (2) a patient might erroneously expect to be able to walk the moment the cast is removed, (though in reality there is usually much work left to be done by a physical therapist) and end up re-injuring himself. But in my case the cast worked afer I had exhausted just about everything else.

Re: Faith Healing

Necee on 11/01/02 at 13:16 (098919)

Amen Jan!!!! He is good, and we don't understand why our prayers are not answered right away...but he does, he has reasons, maybe to show us patience, or to practice our faith more, or simply to allow us to remain close to him and lean on him more. All I know is, life is always good, with or without pain when God is in it.

Happy trails...

Necee

Re: Faith Healing

Lara T on 11/01/02 at 14:16 (098924)

It's been added. : )

Re: Faith Healing

Leon S. on 11/01/02 at 14:19 (098925)

Why does the prayer have to be in Jesus' name?

Re: Faith Healing

Jan H. on 11/01/02 at 23:36 (098979)

Because Jesus is the only way to the Father-He is the bridge between us and a God who is Holy. He said, He is the Way, the Truth and the Life and no one comes to the Father except through Him. I believe that.

Re: Faith Healing

BrianJ on 11/02/02 at 10:30 (099024)

Jan --

Is it your opinion that Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Bhuddists, etc. who engage in faith healing are wasting their time? While I respect your opinion (and your faith), I hope that we on the Heelspurs site will not alienate those of diverse faiths.

Re: Faith Healing

Leon S. on 11/02/02 at 13:27 (099038)

I guess we non-Christians are doomed to PF hell.

Re: Faith Healing

john h on 11/02/02 at 14:26 (099047)

Leon: In Vietnam I prayed to every God I ever read about or could think about. That old saying there are no atheist in fox holes has some relevance. There is another saying I remember 'If your boat is sinking, pray a lot but keep rowing for shore'.

Re: Faith Healing

Carole C in NOLA on 11/02/02 at 14:36 (099048)

Sounds good to me. I'm not a religious person at all, except in a vague and nonspecific sort of way, but I did what I could in that department and I guess one might say that I sure rowed like crazy.

Carole C

Re: Faith Healing

Mahatmelissama on 11/02/02 at 15:47 (099065)

Leon, if somebody is inerrantist, that is, they take the Bible to be completely true, then they believe John 14:6. Look it up if you want to
know what that means. Many Christians are errantists. They respect the Bible but don't take it literally.

With that said, it says in the word that those who seek Him will be rewarded Hebrews 11:6...and I will leave you with this:

'The prosperity or wellness or shalom is not a reward for our goodness. It is part of the hiddenness of God. The rain falls upon the righteous and sinner alike.' - from Psalm 104

PF falls into this category and so does healing from it.

PS: I am a blantant Jesus Freak. I believe what I believe, it is my life.
PPS: This does NOT mean that I don't welcome people of other faiths into my life nor that I don't pray for their healing as well.
PPPS: I hope this helps does not harm.

Thx.

Re: Faith Healing

Leon S. on 11/02/02 at 18:01 (099088)

John, I agree with you. It just irks me when people wave certain specifics of their own religion in your/my face and insist that it is THE ONLY ANSWER to either salvation or in our cases, healing. I find it naive and in some respects disrespectful. This is far from what this web sight is about and yet I find this new wrinkle in the discussions somewhat interesting because I'm sure alot of the contributors are interested in learning something more about the different writers than just their feet....or am I wrong? If I am, I'll just go back and play in my sandbox.

Re: Faith Healing

Leon S. on 11/02/02 at 18:16 (099089)

Welcoming 'people of other faiths into your life' and praying for them sounds a bit condescending to me. It's almost as if, because they are 'of other faiths' they aren't good enough to pray for themselves or that if they do, they won't get the same results because they are not of your faith...You can be a 'blatant Jesus Freak' all you want, just don't deny anyone else the respect that their own beliefs teach. After all, for most of us, we are all (at one time or another) praying to the same God. The difference is whether we take one road or another. The end result should be the same.

Re: Faith Healing

nancy s. on 11/02/02 at 20:12 (099105)

leon, please don't just go back and play in your sandbox. i'm with ya, for whatever that's worth.

nancy.
.

Re: philosphy, religion, polictics or view on finance

Mahatmelissama on 11/02/02 at 20:35 (099108)

You know, many people died so that this country could worship any way they chose and that is what makes this country great and fantastic. You don't have to agree with somebody's philosphy, religion, polictics or view on finance to love somebody and be their friend and...to respect them.

Re: Faith Healing

Jan H. on 11/02/02 at 23:53 (099127)

I believe Jesus Christ is the only way to God and knowing Him (clinging to, trusting in relying on Him) is the only way to heaven. Sorry if that alienates you, but the fact that some are offended doesn't change the Truth.., I think budists, muslims, atheists ect... have every right to believe whatever they want. However, He is the One who said He was the Way-He said, 'No one comes to the Father except through Me.' You'll have to take it up with Him.

Re: Faith Healing

john h on 11/03/02 at 11:19 (099158)

Leon: stay out of the sandbox you might get fleas. Watch out for Nancy S. as she wears socks with cats on them and could easily be associated with those famous ladies from Salem (she lives near there).

Re: Faith Healing

Julie on 11/03/02 at 12:08 (099170)

Leon, try not to let this get to you. Like you, I believe there is only one God. He or she is conceived in different forms and worshipped under different names and in different ways by people of different faiths.In some faiths (e.g. Judaism) God is nameless and formless. In others (e.g. Hinduism) God has takes different forms/aspects and has many different names. This is incomprehensible to some, but it works for Hindus.

Yet there are many people who believe that their faith is the only faith. They are as entitled to that belief as you and I are to ours, and I think it's probably better not to take offense, or to argue about these matters.

So forget your sandbox and stay and play here!

Re: Faith Healing

nancy s. on 11/03/02 at 17:58 (099198)

john, i don't want to spook you or anything, but i used to live IN salem, right before i moved to maine. i'd lived in the city so long before that that i thought when i moved to salem i was moving to the country! ha.

i was not into witchcraft. i do like their crystals, although mica would be better.

nancy.

Re: Those of us who believe in Jesus are not "freaks".

Necee on 11/04/02 at 01:13 (099234)

I'm with you Jan and Melissa.
I know what my Bible says, and I believe every word. He also tells us to, 'put no other Gods before me'. Therefore, I believe and worship only him. His word also says, 'If you deny me before men, I will deny you before my father'.
All of us will never agree on the topic of religion, but we can state our beliefs, and not chastise others for what they believe in. We are allowed to make choices in our own lives, and one day we will all be held accountable for those choices.

Happy trails...

Necee

Re: Faith Healing

Leon S on 11/04/02 at 09:32 (099256)

Julie, John and Nancy, Thanks for your support. As a matter of fact, I was really fired up because of another insensitive message which I read yesterday and didn't have time to respond to and now it appears to have been removed. All along I have been saying that everyone should be free to worship, pray and/or observe any way they like but in the framework of what this country is up against in terms of religious zealotry, it is abit insulting to imply that one's religion is better than someone elses and that if 'we' don't believe the way 'they' do, we are either doomed or lesser people for it. My sandbox is getting crowded.

Re: Those of us who believe in Jesus are not "freaks".

Leon S on 11/04/02 at 09:43 (099257)

Be advised that the 1st reference to 'Jesus Freak' was made by Jan.

Re: My apologies re. "Jesus Freaks"

Leon S on 11/04/02 at 09:58 (099259)

My apologies to Jan for the ealier post regarding the use of the phrase 'Jesus Freak'. Upon further checking, it was first used by Mahatmelissama about herself.

Re: philosphy, religion, polictics or view on finance

Leon S on 11/04/02 at 10:25 (099265)

You are abolutely correct about not having to agree with someone's philosophy, religion etc. to respect them. RESPECT is the key word here. I've read and seen too much about certain people believing that their 'way' is the 'only way'. That does not connote respect. In our time, we have seen one nation's attempt to annhialate my religious group from it's very existence and I will be damned if I will sit by and allow someone to claim that their religious belief is more correct or better than mine or anyone else...Now I'm through.

Re: Why I call myself a "Jesus Freak"

Mahatmelissama on 11/04/02 at 10:27 (099266)

I am a self-decribed 'Jesus freak' since I embrace the term. It doesn't offend me since I am a freak for Jesus. DC Talk had a semi-hit in the Christian top songs called 'Jesus Freak', which is where I get the title.
I also used to call myself Fat Christian Chick but that makes people think I hate myself and I don't love my inner-child (which I do, but I have a wicked dry sense of humor that never quits).

Leon, I understand how Jesus Freaks come across to you since I didn't always used to be one and felt the same way you did (believe it or not). I do believe that Jesus is the only answer but ditto as Julie wisely said (above). I try to act loving in my respone to the world.

I am all about peace harmony and joy here and not anarchy on the boards, no matter how I may have come acros.

Shalom.

Re: Elton John's song "Tiny Dancer" ALSO contains the word "Jesus Freaks"

Mahatmelissama on 11/04/02 at 10:27 (099267)

eom.

Re: philosphy, religion, polictics or view on finance

Leon S on 11/04/02 at 10:31 (099268)

You are abolutely correct about not having to agree with someone's philosophy, religion etc. to respect them. RESPECT is the key word here. I've read and seen too much about certain people believing that their 'way' is the 'only way'. That does not connote respect. In our time, we have seen one nation's attempt to annihilate my religious group from it's very existence and I will be damned if I will sit by and allow someone to claim that their religious belief is more correct or better than mine or anyone else...Now I'm through.

Re: "Jesus Freaks"

Necee on 11/04/02 at 14:45 (099307)

I know who made the post regarding Jesus freaks.
I was simply saying that I don't feel like a 'freak'. My dictionary describes a freak as... someone being queer; or very strange. So using the term 'Jesus freak' sounds very inappropriate to me. Now thats just my opinion here, so don't any of you take it personally, ok.

Happy trails....

Necee

Re: re: Jesus Freaks, Necee

Jan H. on 11/04/02 at 15:21 (099311)

Hi Necee

I bought my first pair of Birkenstocks today!!! I think I got a good price and I sure hope they help.
Well, freaks maybe not, but we are strangers and aliens in this land, a peculiar people, if you will. The more I look around and see what the world has to offer, the more I'm glad of that. :)

Re: philosphy, religion, polictics or view on finance

Jan H. on 11/04/02 at 15:34 (099314)

I'm sorry if I offend you but yes, I do most definitly believe Jesus is the Only Way-If you don't well,ok, that is your perogitive but as for me, If I didn't believe that He was the only Way, then I would keep looking. With every fiber of my being I know Jesus is the Way to the Father, it is not just a 'belief' with me. Let's put it this way, if we were both in a burning building and I knew the only way out, what would happen if I wouldn't share that with you and knowingly let you go further into the fire, because I was afraid I would 'offend' you if I told you where the door is?
I'm not promoting a church or a denomination, if you look through my posts you'll never see that, I'm just telling you Who is the door.

Re: philosphy, religion, polictics or view on finance

Leon S. on 11/04/02 at 15:55 (099315)

Let's stop playing word games. We're not talking about saving someone in a burning building. As a matter of fact, to take your analogy one step into reality, remember the incident in Saudi Arabia where dozens of school girls were allowed to die in a burning building because the 'religious police' wouldn't allow them to be rescued because they weren't dressed properly to be seen in public. That is what happens when religious extremism takes control. Your last sentence says that you are not promoting a church or a denomination, you are just TELLING me what to believe. Can't you understand that it is wrong for you to tell me that? You are not saving me. I can have my own strong beliefs about what I need for salvation but I am not presumptive enough to try and impose them on you or anyone else.

Re: Ship of Fools might be a good site for you Leon

Mahatmelissama on 11/04/02 at 16:09 (099317)

Psst...a better place to debate religion is http://www.ship-of-fools.com I am dropping this conversation after this post since I come here for healing and support for my feet, not to debate religion. I go over there [Ship of Fools] to debate to my heart's content.

You can peek and if it ain't your cup of tea - no harm done cause ain't nobody will no.

Re: philosphy, religion, polictics or view on finance

Nancy N on 11/04/02 at 16:59 (099325)

Leon (and others)--

I am only going to make one post on this thread, because I really don't want to get pulled into an emotionally exhausting argument. But I wanted to let you know that you have very nicely summed up my entire problem with Christianity (mostly, but not completely, the 'Christian right.') I was raised as a Christian but my conscience tells me that I cannot truly belong to a group that engages in mass attempts to 'convert' others. Their beliefs are their beliefs, and they are as entitled to them as I am to mine. I have a lot of trouble attaching a Christian label to my beliefs, which is why I don't label them at all anymore.

I wonder sometimes if those who are attempting to convert someone would understand the feeling better if a Jew, Buddhist, Hindu, etc etc etc were the one trying to convert them! It seems to be a phenomenon that limits itself only/mostly to Christian circles, which I find interesting.

If you go back and look at comparative mythology, you see that no one religion has the monopoly on the Flood, the Virgin Birth, the Resurrection, etc. Different versions of the same stories exist all over the place. So for any one group to claim theirs is the only 'right' way just baffles me. Seems to me that it is one basic story with many different tellings. We won't know anything for sure until after we die--in the meantime, can't we all just get along, and respect (or--gasp!--embrace) each other's differences?

What an unfathomably dull world this would be if we were all the same...

Re: philosphy, religion, polictics or view on finance

Jan H. on 11/04/02 at 17:03 (099326)

I'm not 'telling you' what to believe, I'm telling you what is true, if you don't want to believe it, that's your right. I most certianly am not trying to 'save you', I don't have any power to do that even if I wanted to. If your beliefs about salvation are 'strong' as you say they are, then you should most assuredly share them. No one is telling you not to. If they are not strong enough to share then you really don't believe anyway. Shame on you for comparing my beliefs about salvation to burning up children in a school. Why don't we drop it here and agree to disagree-in eternity, when every knee shall bow, we will agree.

Re: To Leon

Jan H. on 11/04/02 at 17:11 (099329)

I don't know what religion you are Leon, but if you are Jewish, which is what I got from your post, then I want to say, that I for one, do respect your faith. You might not know this, but I as a Christian have almost as much love for the Holy Places as you and the very thought of stepping on the Jewish Holy Land brings me to tears. Please, do not take my posts about Jesus as offensive. He is our bridge to God, not our goodness or our heritage. He is Jewish you know.

Re: To Leon

Leon S. on 11/04/02 at 18:16 (099337)

This can of worms makes my feet hurt.

Re: To Leon

Dr. Zuckerman on 11/04/02 at 18:25 (099340)

I am jewish. I am going to say just one thing. Tell one thing that Jesus said that wasn't great !! At the very least he is the greatest man that ever lived. By the way that is the title of a book about his life. So lets all enjoy !! I have no idea what the theme of this post is but I just wanted to add this

Re: To Leon

Leon S. on 11/04/02 at 19:21 (099347)

Dayenu!!

Re: To Leon

Mahatmelissama on 11/04/02 at 20:13 (099351)

Dr. Z, I worship in a synagogue (my church rents it). We actually have to cook kosher (I have assisted and there is much more to it then I previously thought...seperate dish washers and seperate sponges even!)

Anyhoo...many Christians are very protective of Jews/Israel since the bible is clear that they are a chosen people by God.

When my pastor and elders talked to the rabbi and leaders in the Beth Jacob synagogue and said 'We DO PREACH about Jesus being the only way...is that ok?' The answer was 'Yeah, we know. Just make sure you don't protesize Jews and it is very important you COOK KOSHER.'

People in my church have sat in kosher cooking classes...and we all have a pretty good relationship with the Jews in my church/synaguge, even with the 'kitchen god' (I forgot the Hebrew name for the kosher police).

Re: To Leon

Mahatmelissama on 11/04/02 at 20:16 (099352)

I don't need worms for my feet to hurt...all I need are those nice weight bearing stretches that everyone thinks are so helpful, a la the RUNNERS STRETCH>>>SHUDDER<<<< I get SCARED even thinking about that one...pain pain pain.

Re: Faith Healing

Ed Davis, DPM on 11/04/02 at 22:07 (099369)

Julie:
Very well stated! There must be a reason that God has laid out multiple paths to him and I worry about those who insist theirs is the only path. A lot of conflict has occured and is still occurring simply based on that attitude.
Regards,
Ed

Re: philosphy, religion, polictics or view on finance

Ed Davis, DPM on 11/04/02 at 22:12 (099370)

Nancy:
We have been granted free will by God so we can ask questions. Why did God create so many paths, as Julie stated, to him? Would he not have created one path only if that was what he wanted?
Ed

Re: To: Jan

Necee on 11/04/02 at 23:07 (099387)

Tell me where you got your Birks. And what kind did you get? I sure hope they help you, remember it takes a few weeks to get them acclimated to your feet. You should only wear them a few hours a day at the begining.
Good luck Jan, I'll be praying that this is the answer to your PF.
Yes, I know what your saying about feeling like a stranger in this land, the Bible says we will be persecuted for our beliefs.
Hope we can keep in touch,
Happy trails....

Necee

Re: To: Jan

Jan H. on 11/05/02 at 06:26 (099394)

Hi,
I got them at a store called Performance footwear near Pittsburgh, PA-they are Tokyo clogs and were $55. They have just a strap in the back and I wanted closed back, but this is all they had except for sandles. I wore them for a little while yesterday and they seemed to be ok-except my foot on the left seemed a little wide for the heel cup-the other fit ok though. Tried the wrong one on I guess. I am going to wear them to work tonight-but I will take my old athletic shoes with me.
Jan

Re: Faith Healing

john h on 11/05/02 at 10:06 (099409)

Nancy: you lived in Salem and like cats and are into antiques. I will be careful not to offend you in the future. Is Judy part of your group?

Sidebar for real: On my second trip to Vietnam I boarded a Flying Tirger airliner. I sat in the very first row at the door with the stewardess sitting across from me. Sitting next to me was a young Army guy. As we were flying along I noticed him writing in what appeared to be some foreign language. After a while I asked him what language he was writing in. He responed 'I am a Warlock' and this is our language. He further told me his Coven was in San Francisco. I was totally speechless and the Flight Attendant who was listening to this conversation seemed somewhat alarmed.I asked him a few more questions about his religion (Wicken) and he happily told me some of his beliefs. I was somewhat anxious for the remainder of the flight as was the Flight Attendant who later called aside and asked if I thought he was dangerous.

Re: re: Jesus Freaks, Necee

john h on 11/05/02 at 10:16 (099411)

Jan: Be patient with your new Birks as it will normally take a few weeks to become accustomed to them.

Re: To Leon

john h on 11/05/02 at 10:21 (099412)

Hey guys and girls: As you all can plainly see religion and politics discussions will not change anyones mind and only create bad feelings. Everyone be nice and read the book 'All I Ever Needed To Know I Learned in The First Grade'. Suzanned I know I have that title wrong but you will surely know the correct title.

Re: Faith Healing

JudyS on 11/05/02 at 10:48 (099419)

John - I adore cats and antiques, and I think I gave those cat sox to Nancy so I sure hope I'm part of her 'group'! Although I've never lived in Salem.........never smoked them either! :)

Re: To Leon

Julie on 11/06/02 at 02:29 (099477)

You know it too, John, but for those who don't (and I heartily second your recommendation) it's 'All I Ever Needed to Know I Learned in Kindergarten', by Robert Fulghum. Come to think of it it might be 'Everything...'

Re: To Leon

Nancy N on 11/06/02 at 05:49 (099490)

'All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten: Uncommon Thoughts on Common Things.' Great book.

Re: Faith Healing

john h on 11/07/02 at 10:32 (099560)

Hey Judy you are dating yourself with those Salem smokes. Bet you do no remember Wings which came with a small picture of an aircraft?

Re: Faith Healing

pala on 11/09/02 at 16:27 (099679)

leon , you seem very intelligent. i agree with you but this is an argument that will get you nowhere. believe me. i live in the deep south. ,
i have learned to be very tolerant. my physical therapist, the best i ever had is a literalist christian republican. thought about just leaving when she told me this. then i thought well, she's a great person and a great therapist. she and i can laugh and care about each other even tho we come from such opposite poles. i think we can all get along here and we all want the same thing here. a pain free life.

Re: Faith Healing

pala on 11/09/02 at 16:46 (099681)

actually i would prefer this subject kept to social board since this subject can be very wordy and space taking up and controversial.

Re: Faith Healing

Leon S. on 11/10/02 at 17:27 (099735)

Pala, I made my points and have dropped this thread a week ago. You missed all the fun. Thanks for your input anyway.

Re: Faith Healing

pala on 11/10/02 at 18:10 (099736)

the capacity to drop a contentious thread comes close to sainthood on online discussion boards. now just become an old hippy like me and embrace your birkies for eternity.