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ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

Posted by AmyinVaBch on 11/15/02 at 17:53 (100317)

Hi everyone,

I have been reading this board for MONTHS now. In mid-August I posted to this site (AmyinVaBch) and received numerous responses to my post. One reponse I received was from Sunny Jacob, Clinical Director of the Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic, in Toronto, Ontario. He offered free treatment to me in his message. What a blessing, but before I made my decision I did extensive research into ESWT treatment. I have taken quite a bit of time to do that. Then I had to deal with my own fears of flying. I do not fly,having only flown once when I was 20. However, I could not go on with the pain of PF. I emailed and spoke with Sunny who is very knowledgeable and patient in answering questions. I also emailed and spoke with Cori Liuzzi, the Senior ESWT Therapist. They could not have been more helpful.

I have suffered from PF for 1.5 years. I have been through 2 rounds of PT, 2 rounds of steroid injections, home exercises, icing, taping, etc...I wear Birkinstocks and occassionally New Balance tennis shoes as prescribed by one of my PT's. My activities were almost nil, homebound unless absolutely necessary, since I know more activity increases damage to the fascia. This is no way to live!

I arrived in Toronto on 11/14 and went straight from the airport to the Bayshore Clinic for my first appointment. Cori met me and we completed the documentation, the examination, and orientation procedure. She already had the narrative report of my MRI, which indicates that my diagnosis is PF. I have no other pathologies. Cori examined my R heel and executed pressure all over the heel and I indicated the pain level associated with each location that she palpated. She marked the area and we were ready to begin the treatment.

The treatment is low intensity and the machine has inline ultrasound to guide the therapist. I was handed a device similar to a remote control with the 'GO' button on it. I was in control, in other words. Cori was free to move the machine throughout the areas where I indicated pain. She was able to visualize the areas on the ultrasound as she did this. Once the button was depressed the treatment began and continued for the full 15 minute session. I kept the 'pedal to the metal' all way through!

The machine made a dull 'clunking sound' as a knife against hitting against another hard surface. I was asked to describe the physical sensation at each position that Cori directed the machine. At first there was no pain. Then as time passed there was some discomfort, then it dissapated. It was nothing I could not bear. Then she moved to the next areas on my heel. Sometimes one area was uncomfortable right away, but again, nothing I could not bear. Nothing compared to the feeling of the 'cold foot' on the floor first thing in the AM! Evenually we found an area that was MOST painful and that is where we stayed for the duration of the treatment. Yes, indeed it was uncomfortable. I am determined that this treatment is going to work. Faith is a good thing to have! A good thorough therapist who is knowledgeable is a must and Cori knows her business!

Once the treatment was over I noticed, as Cori pointed out, that the area treated was ever-so-slightly reddened. That is indicative of increased blood flow to the area. That is good! Something is going on now!

I am not in pain. There is a bit of soreness in the ankle, but I am taking it easy today. To accomodate me in my schedule, Cori will treat me tomorrow for my second treatment. Following the ESWT she will incorporate the use of the laser.

I will continue to post how things are going in my treatment here and as the months pass. It is very important to me to let others know how this treatment is going. I know how much I wanted to read about real people and not get into politics, arguments, debages, etc...Life is too short for all of that. Like Joe Friday, I want 'just the facts' ma'am. As a matter of fact, I plan to sign a release with Cori so that others may contact me directly about my case and my care here at Bayshore. If I can help someone else, so much the better. You know patients from Bayshore post here and say many postive things and then they disappear. I guess they experience success and are so busy LIVING a life for the first time in so long that we do not read about them again. I will be posting for those of you who want to read about a real person getting treatment available in Canada.

If you have any questions, I will be glad to answer them for you. My thumbs are up and I am confident this is going to be a successful treatment for me. God is good!

Thanks Sunny and Cori!
Amy

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

Bill on 11/15/02 at 18:02 (100319)

It could not work. It was just the placebo effect because low energy machines don't work.
Bill

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

Jean P. on 11/15/02 at 18:07 (100320)

Cori, treated me too. If this is all in my head Bill I just wish someone had used a placebo long ago. Good luck - I am much better and hopefully you will be too Amy.

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

JudyS on 11/15/02 at 21:29 (100334)

Amy - my thumbs are UP for you too! What the heck - my toes are too! What an extremely well-written description you've given us about your first experience at Bayshore. It's definately one of the most detailed I've seen.
Congratulations to you for being brave enough to fly to Canada - I guess that makes two huge steps in your life.
I look forward to hearing the details of your experiences in the next couple of months.

Re: Bill

Julie on 11/16/02 at 02:28 (100343)

Bill, I now see that you are unkind as well as deceitful.

Amy goes to the trouble to write a long, informative post about her experience (which supports what others have said about the skill of the Bayshore people and the effectiveness of their treatment) with the aim of helping others.

And you pour scorn on it.

You are a trouble maker.

I suppose I should have ignored your post, but it makes me angry, as your attitude here has ever since you turned up.

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

Julie on 11/16/02 at 02:33 (100344)

Amy, I remembered your posts from last August, and Sunny's offer, and was glad to hear you took it up. Thank you for posting your experience. It's exactly the kind of information that many people would like to have, and seldom get: what actually happens during a treatment and how it feels. It was good of you to take the time to go into confidence-inspiring detail.

I'm sure that loads of people appreciate it, even if only a few say so, so I don't need to say this, but please don't let Debunker Bill's post discourage you from continued reports. We want them.

I hope your treatment works, and I wish you better! Fingers crossed.

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

nancy s. on 11/16/02 at 03:27 (100348)

amy, what a great post! if i were considering eswt (i don't need to now), this is just the kind of info i would want and need to help me make the decision. i too remember you from august.

if you can continue to give really detailed updates like this one, you'll be helping a lot of people.

thanks from nancy
.

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

Bill on 11/16/02 at 06:17 (100358)

I haven't posted since my last message to Dr. Davis and I did not intend to post again but I feel compelled to post when someone is posting as Bill and those posts are being attributed to me.

Sorry, I have to respond. The person who responded under the name Bill was not the Bill that is having the debate with Dr. Davis. It is a mean imposter. Look back at my messages and you will see that I never signed them. The imposter has ended the message as Bill, which I never did.

I would not presume to tell anyone that the results of their therapy was from the placebo effect. How could I know that?

It is a shame that someone has decided to write such garbarge and please don't attribute it to me.

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

Don.S on 11/16/02 at 06:22 (100359)

Amy,
Just one question - What level did you reach for your 1st treatment?
Make sure you use heat packs to stimulate vascular supply to the area. Do NOT ice as this will impede the healing process.
In Australia we use wheat bags heated in the microwave (with 1/2 cup of water) for 4 minutes.
On the side diabetice must be very careful using heated wheat bags as they may cause ulcers in the of peripheral neuropathy. (I know of one diabetic who went to sleep with their foot resting against the wheat bag and ended up with a full thickness burn 5 inches by 3 inches

I hope the little person inside your foot with that big sledge hammer has done the job.

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

Sunny Jacob, Bayshore on 11/16/02 at 08:54 (100371)

Don.S,
We know you mean well by advising Amy during her treatment at Bayshore.
We do have an established treatment protocol and our therapist provides step-by-step advice to the patient between the treatment sessions.
The reason we have a combination therapy of low energy ESWT and LILT (Low Intensity Laser Therapy) is to stimulate faster healing and inccreased vascular supply. Please do not confuse the patient with ice pack / heat pack, etc., at least until she has completed her treatment with us. Thank you for your co-operation.

Re: Bill (?)

Julie on 11/16/02 at 09:04 (100372)

My first impulse was to apologise to you for my mistake, but I won't. If you are being 'impersonated' by another 'Bill', and if others think it's you, I'd say you've only yourself to blame.

You could have identified yourself when requested to, as you were, several times, by me and by others, and you should have been less discourteous and less of a 'stirrer' here. You wasted a lot of time and upset some people. It wasn't nice.

I've re-read 'Bill's' post to Amy, and am not really surprised that I thought it was from you. I admit I didn't do any detective work to see whether you signed previous posts 'Bill'. Should I have? I don't see why. I judged it by its topic and its tone.

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

BrianG on 11/16/02 at 21:25 (100457)

Hi Amy,

I hope this the the treatment that will cure you. I have no doubt that it is much better than trying surgery. Whoever made the first response, saying low intensity will no work, obviously did not do their homework. There are two levels of intensity that would be considered low. One is extremely low, and was the subject of the receint JAMA article. The other 'low' intensity is much higher than the Jama study, but not as high as the Ossatron. This is obviously the treatment that you had.

I have no idea why the people behind the JAMA article would use such a low intensity treatment, it was much lower than any of the currant low dosages of the Dornier, or Sonocur (which you probably had). Don't worry about the new 'Bills' comment, the report he is basing his reply on, is rubbish!!

Now, on with your healing!!!! I spent quite a few summer vacations at Va. Beach. My grandparents house was just south of Rudee Inlet. It was right under the flight path for the fighter jets at ???????? Damn, I can't remember the name of the Navy base! I do remember one thing, it was LOUD !!!!!!!!!! I caught lots of spots and croakers at the nearby fishing pier :*) Is it still there?

Regards
BrianG

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

Don.S on 11/17/02 at 00:43 (100463)

Sunny,
Sorry about that I thought the treatment she had was over.
Interesting about the Laser Therapy I never thought of that. Good Idea

Don Scott

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

AmyinVaBch on 11/17/02 at 10:20 (100487)

BrianG,

Yes, the fishing pier is still there. You went fishing in Virginia Beach at Rudee Inlet, which is the north end of Virginia Beach. This is the area that is less tourist-y. The Navy planes that you heard frequently were/are from the Oceana Naval Air Base. Yes, it too is still there. Many complain about the noise there, but that is our military that protects us, how much can we say, and particularly now? My husband is serving his 25 year in the Navy. He is a ship sailor, Command Master Chief, on a destroyer right now out in the Med on a 6-month deployment. He is proud to serve and I am proud to be his wife and his attitude to serve and respect and protect the freedoms of ALL people! Amen!

Brian, you were near the Duck-In Restaurant right there at Lessner Bridge. They have a private beach and they have a gazebo out there at the end of a short footbridge. It is a nice place and very popular during tourist season and with us locals. The fishing is still good.

Thank you for your encouraging words about my getting this treatment. I will post a short note after this message to you.

Take care,
Amy

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

Doug on 11/17/02 at 10:39 (100495)

I am very interested in what Amy has to write. I went to Toronto 4 years for the Dornier treamtent for PF and it didn't work for me. I am still in pain and have done everything else including PT, boot, cortizone, massage, you name it. I need to try something else, maybe going back to Canada at Bayshore. I don't think it was Bayshore I went to last time.
Doug

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

Sunny Jacob, Bayshore on 11/17/02 at 10:48 (100498)

Doug,
According to our clinical records you were not treated at our clinic. We never used Dornier for ESWT treatment.
Please note: I am not implying that Dornier is not effective for ESWT, provided that a proper treatment protocol is used by an experienced provider.

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

john h on 11/17/02 at 10:54 (100503)

Brian: On one base in Vietnam our rescue alert quarters were about 70 yards from the jet engine test stand. these engines were tested in the open with no insulation as in an aircraft. Talk about loud 24/7! We slept in those alert qurters. You can eventually get accustomed to about anything and even go to slee-.

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

BrianG on 11/17/02 at 19:16 (100523)

YES, it was Oceana Naval Air Station! My grandparents house was right on the fight path of most incomng planes. They were tolerable, and you could actually see the pilots and read the plane numbers very clearly. Every once in a while, the wind would shift, and they took off over the house, now that was when it was LOUD !!!!!! :*)

It's nice to hear from our vet's, and their wive's. JohnH is our resident patriotic freedom fighter, hahaaa. I used to visit Va Beach back in the 60's and had some fierce arguments with my grandfather about Nam. Like the majority of the teenagers, I was against the war. He was a WWWI vet, but never spoke about what he did, or where he went. As things turned out, I joined the Coast Guard and ended up pulling bouy's in S/E Asia anyways. There was just no way of getting away from it in the early 70's. It was a bad time for our country, patriotism was low, we probably didn't belong there, and we were all treated like crap when we came home. Now, you and your husband can enjoy the surge of patriotism, that has come at a very high civilian price, from 9-11.

Anyways, I ramble..... Hope you get your treatments on time, and mother nature gives you a break, especially the flying weather. We are certainly catching hell here in New England!!!

Regards
BrianG

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

BrianG on 11/17/02 at 19:21 (100525)

C'mon John, no one could sleep under those conditions!!! You were probably working 20 hours a day, and passing out for the other 4 hours. Didn't you guys used to filter some type of fuel though bread, for an alcoholic drink? Or was that something I saw in a prison movie :*)

BrianG

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

john h on 11/18/02 at 10:52 (100565)

Brian I still love the smell of Jet Fuel. Strange how odors can bring back vivid images and thoughts of years past. You bet I could sleep under those conditions. Even when they kicked those engines into after burner which would send shock waves through your entire body. Hey! sudden thought! get your feet near a 20,000 hp jet engine. kick that baby into after burner and you will have a Ossatron 100 times over. I am amazed I still have such good hearing. Did you read about the recent test of the Laser Gun that shot two artillery shells out of the sky. The shells were moving at over 1000 miles an hour. Now that is some intense heat these lasers had to generate over a short period of time to explode these shells. How you aim such a laser is Buck Rogers type stuff. The distance from the Laser Gun was not mentioned but moving at 1000 plus it had to be many miles. Many years ago I could stand in front of a B-52 about 25 yards out and light up a light bulb with the search radar.My wife tells me I have a lot of static electricity in my body. I wonder why?.

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

Doug on 11/18/02 at 18:52 (100600)

Sunny Jacob,
What is the fee to have ESWT done at Bayshore?
Doug

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

Ed Davis, DPM on 11/18/02 at 19:09 (100604)

Don:
Do you believe that short term use of ice after the procedure would affect the results in a significant way? I allow patients to use ice for the evening after the procedure.
Ed

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

Sunny Jacob, Bayshore on 11/19/02 at 05:47 (100620)

Doug,
Regarding Bayshore's fee for ESWT and other details, please contact the clinic directly: Tel. 905-949-6669, email: (email removed)
They will respond within 24 hours.
Bayshore has only one fee for ESWT and there are no hidden costs.

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

john h on 11/19/02 at 18:32 (100688)

Doug: I do not think Sunny can post the cost of the Bayshore treatment with Sonocur but I think it is between $1000 and $1500. That would be for the three treatment protocol and the laser thearpy. This is not rock solid but talking to a Doctor in that area I should be in the ball park.

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

john h on 11/19/02 at 18:34 (100690)

Dr. Ed: Seems to me Dr. Z said heat after treatment. I may be wrong but Dr. Z can correct me.

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

Julie on 11/20/02 at 02:58 (100717)

That's my recollection too, John: heat after treatment.

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

Bill on 11/15/02 at 18:02 (100319)

It could not work. It was just the placebo effect because low energy machines don't work.
Bill

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

Jean P. on 11/15/02 at 18:07 (100320)

Cori, treated me too. If this is all in my head Bill I just wish someone had used a placebo long ago. Good luck - I am much better and hopefully you will be too Amy.

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

JudyS on 11/15/02 at 21:29 (100334)

Amy - my thumbs are UP for you too! What the heck - my toes are too! What an extremely well-written description you've given us about your first experience at Bayshore. It's definately one of the most detailed I've seen.
Congratulations to you for being brave enough to fly to Canada - I guess that makes two huge steps in your life.
I look forward to hearing the details of your experiences in the next couple of months.

Re: Bill

Julie on 11/16/02 at 02:28 (100343)

Bill, I now see that you are unkind as well as deceitful.

Amy goes to the trouble to write a long, informative post about her experience (which supports what others have said about the skill of the Bayshore people and the effectiveness of their treatment) with the aim of helping others.

And you pour scorn on it.

You are a trouble maker.

I suppose I should have ignored your post, but it makes me angry, as your attitude here has ever since you turned up.

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

Julie on 11/16/02 at 02:33 (100344)

Amy, I remembered your posts from last August, and Sunny's offer, and was glad to hear you took it up. Thank you for posting your experience. It's exactly the kind of information that many people would like to have, and seldom get: what actually happens during a treatment and how it feels. It was good of you to take the time to go into confidence-inspiring detail.

I'm sure that loads of people appreciate it, even if only a few say so, so I don't need to say this, but please don't let Debunker Bill's post discourage you from continued reports. We want them.

I hope your treatment works, and I wish you better! Fingers crossed.

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

nancy s. on 11/16/02 at 03:27 (100348)

amy, what a great post! if i were considering eswt (i don't need to now), this is just the kind of info i would want and need to help me make the decision. i too remember you from august.

if you can continue to give really detailed updates like this one, you'll be helping a lot of people.

thanks from nancy
.

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

Bill on 11/16/02 at 06:17 (100358)

I haven't posted since my last message to Dr. Davis and I did not intend to post again but I feel compelled to post when someone is posting as Bill and those posts are being attributed to me.

Sorry, I have to respond. The person who responded under the name Bill was not the Bill that is having the debate with Dr. Davis. It is a mean imposter. Look back at my messages and you will see that I never signed them. The imposter has ended the message as Bill, which I never did.

I would not presume to tell anyone that the results of their therapy was from the placebo effect. How could I know that?

It is a shame that someone has decided to write such garbarge and please don't attribute it to me.

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

Don.S on 11/16/02 at 06:22 (100359)

Amy,
Just one question - What level did you reach for your 1st treatment?
Make sure you use heat packs to stimulate vascular supply to the area. Do NOT ice as this will impede the healing process.
In Australia we use wheat bags heated in the microwave (with 1/2 cup of water) for 4 minutes.
On the side diabetice must be very careful using heated wheat bags as they may cause ulcers in the of peripheral neuropathy. (I know of one diabetic who went to sleep with their foot resting against the wheat bag and ended up with a full thickness burn 5 inches by 3 inches

I hope the little person inside your foot with that big sledge hammer has done the job.

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

Sunny Jacob, Bayshore on 11/16/02 at 08:54 (100371)

Don.S,
We know you mean well by advising Amy during her treatment at Bayshore.
We do have an established treatment protocol and our therapist provides step-by-step advice to the patient between the treatment sessions.
The reason we have a combination therapy of low energy ESWT and LILT (Low Intensity Laser Therapy) is to stimulate faster healing and inccreased vascular supply. Please do not confuse the patient with ice pack / heat pack, etc., at least until she has completed her treatment with us. Thank you for your co-operation.

Re: Bill (?)

Julie on 11/16/02 at 09:04 (100372)

My first impulse was to apologise to you for my mistake, but I won't. If you are being 'impersonated' by another 'Bill', and if others think it's you, I'd say you've only yourself to blame.

You could have identified yourself when requested to, as you were, several times, by me and by others, and you should have been less discourteous and less of a 'stirrer' here. You wasted a lot of time and upset some people. It wasn't nice.

I've re-read 'Bill's' post to Amy, and am not really surprised that I thought it was from you. I admit I didn't do any detective work to see whether you signed previous posts 'Bill'. Should I have? I don't see why. I judged it by its topic and its tone.

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

BrianG on 11/16/02 at 21:25 (100457)

Hi Amy,

I hope this the the treatment that will cure you. I have no doubt that it is much better than trying surgery. Whoever made the first response, saying low intensity will no work, obviously did not do their homework. There are two levels of intensity that would be considered low. One is extremely low, and was the subject of the receint JAMA article. The other 'low' intensity is much higher than the Jama study, but not as high as the Ossatron. This is obviously the treatment that you had.

I have no idea why the people behind the JAMA article would use such a low intensity treatment, it was much lower than any of the currant low dosages of the Dornier, or Sonocur (which you probably had). Don't worry about the new 'Bills' comment, the report he is basing his reply on, is rubbish!!

Now, on with your healing!!!! I spent quite a few summer vacations at Va. Beach. My grandparents house was just south of Rudee Inlet. It was right under the flight path for the fighter jets at ???????? Damn, I can't remember the name of the Navy base! I do remember one thing, it was LOUD !!!!!!!!!! I caught lots of spots and croakers at the nearby fishing pier :*) Is it still there?

Regards
BrianG

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

Don.S on 11/17/02 at 00:43 (100463)

Sunny,
Sorry about that I thought the treatment she had was over.
Interesting about the Laser Therapy I never thought of that. Good Idea

Don Scott

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

AmyinVaBch on 11/17/02 at 10:20 (100487)

BrianG,

Yes, the fishing pier is still there. You went fishing in Virginia Beach at Rudee Inlet, which is the north end of Virginia Beach. This is the area that is less tourist-y. The Navy planes that you heard frequently were/are from the Oceana Naval Air Base. Yes, it too is still there. Many complain about the noise there, but that is our military that protects us, how much can we say, and particularly now? My husband is serving his 25 year in the Navy. He is a ship sailor, Command Master Chief, on a destroyer right now out in the Med on a 6-month deployment. He is proud to serve and I am proud to be his wife and his attitude to serve and respect and protect the freedoms of ALL people! Amen!

Brian, you were near the Duck-In Restaurant right there at Lessner Bridge. They have a private beach and they have a gazebo out there at the end of a short footbridge. It is a nice place and very popular during tourist season and with us locals. The fishing is still good.

Thank you for your encouraging words about my getting this treatment. I will post a short note after this message to you.

Take care,
Amy

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

Doug on 11/17/02 at 10:39 (100495)

I am very interested in what Amy has to write. I went to Toronto 4 years for the Dornier treamtent for PF and it didn't work for me. I am still in pain and have done everything else including PT, boot, cortizone, massage, you name it. I need to try something else, maybe going back to Canada at Bayshore. I don't think it was Bayshore I went to last time.
Doug

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

Sunny Jacob, Bayshore on 11/17/02 at 10:48 (100498)

Doug,
According to our clinical records you were not treated at our clinic. We never used Dornier for ESWT treatment.
Please note: I am not implying that Dornier is not effective for ESWT, provided that a proper treatment protocol is used by an experienced provider.

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

john h on 11/17/02 at 10:54 (100503)

Brian: On one base in Vietnam our rescue alert quarters were about 70 yards from the jet engine test stand. these engines were tested in the open with no insulation as in an aircraft. Talk about loud 24/7! We slept in those alert qurters. You can eventually get accustomed to about anything and even go to slee-.

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

BrianG on 11/17/02 at 19:16 (100523)

YES, it was Oceana Naval Air Station! My grandparents house was right on the fight path of most incomng planes. They were tolerable, and you could actually see the pilots and read the plane numbers very clearly. Every once in a while, the wind would shift, and they took off over the house, now that was when it was LOUD !!!!!! :*)

It's nice to hear from our vet's, and their wive's. JohnH is our resident patriotic freedom fighter, hahaaa. I used to visit Va Beach back in the 60's and had some fierce arguments with my grandfather about Nam. Like the majority of the teenagers, I was against the war. He was a WWWI vet, but never spoke about what he did, or where he went. As things turned out, I joined the Coast Guard and ended up pulling bouy's in S/E Asia anyways. There was just no way of getting away from it in the early 70's. It was a bad time for our country, patriotism was low, we probably didn't belong there, and we were all treated like crap when we came home. Now, you and your husband can enjoy the surge of patriotism, that has come at a very high civilian price, from 9-11.

Anyways, I ramble..... Hope you get your treatments on time, and mother nature gives you a break, especially the flying weather. We are certainly catching hell here in New England!!!

Regards
BrianG

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

BrianG on 11/17/02 at 19:21 (100525)

C'mon John, no one could sleep under those conditions!!! You were probably working 20 hours a day, and passing out for the other 4 hours. Didn't you guys used to filter some type of fuel though bread, for an alcoholic drink? Or was that something I saw in a prison movie :*)

BrianG

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

john h on 11/18/02 at 10:52 (100565)

Brian I still love the smell of Jet Fuel. Strange how odors can bring back vivid images and thoughts of years past. You bet I could sleep under those conditions. Even when they kicked those engines into after burner which would send shock waves through your entire body. Hey! sudden thought! get your feet near a 20,000 hp jet engine. kick that baby into after burner and you will have a Ossatron 100 times over. I am amazed I still have such good hearing. Did you read about the recent test of the Laser Gun that shot two artillery shells out of the sky. The shells were moving at over 1000 miles an hour. Now that is some intense heat these lasers had to generate over a short period of time to explode these shells. How you aim such a laser is Buck Rogers type stuff. The distance from the Laser Gun was not mentioned but moving at 1000 plus it had to be many miles. Many years ago I could stand in front of a B-52 about 25 yards out and light up a light bulb with the search radar.My wife tells me I have a lot of static electricity in my body. I wonder why?.

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

Doug on 11/18/02 at 18:52 (100600)

Sunny Jacob,
What is the fee to have ESWT done at Bayshore?
Doug

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

Ed Davis, DPM on 11/18/02 at 19:09 (100604)

Don:
Do you believe that short term use of ice after the procedure would affect the results in a significant way? I allow patients to use ice for the evening after the procedure.
Ed

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

Sunny Jacob, Bayshore on 11/19/02 at 05:47 (100620)

Doug,
Regarding Bayshore's fee for ESWT and other details, please contact the clinic directly: Tel. 905-949-6669, email: (email removed)
They will respond within 24 hours.
Bayshore has only one fee for ESWT and there are no hidden costs.

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

john h on 11/19/02 at 18:32 (100688)

Doug: I do not think Sunny can post the cost of the Bayshore treatment with Sonocur but I think it is between $1000 and $1500. That would be for the three treatment protocol and the laser thearpy. This is not rock solid but talking to a Doctor in that area I should be in the ball park.

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

john h on 11/19/02 at 18:34 (100690)

Dr. Ed: Seems to me Dr. Z said heat after treatment. I may be wrong but Dr. Z can correct me.

Re: ESWT at Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic!!!

Julie on 11/20/02 at 02:58 (100717)

That's my recollection too, John: heat after treatment.