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"Thank you!" to whoever mentioned trigger points awhile back.

Posted by Ellen J. on 11/17/02 at 09:29 (100475)

I can't remember who first mentioned Myofascial Pain and/or Trigger Points, but after researching this and having therapy done on the calves, legs and hips, my feet are better than they have been in the 3 1/2 years that I've had P.F. Of course, I could suffer a recurrence at any point since I'm not totally over this yet, but my feet are dramatically better for now. The difficult part is remembering to stretch every day, which is one of the keys to keep trigger points from recurring. I bought 'The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook' by Clair Davies, which allows me to self-treat my calves, and I also have a therapist work on the hips/hamstrings which are harder to reach. I DO NOT treat any potential trigger points that might be in the feet, as I have a fear of really aggravating the feet if I were to do so. Also, I use the compression method rather than the stroking method mentioned in the book. For me, the compression works better.
Thanks to whoever mentioned trigger points and myofascial pain. I really appreciate it!!
Ellen J.

Re: "Thank you!" to whoever mentioned trigger points awhile back.

nancy s. on 11/17/02 at 09:40 (100477)

ellen, i believe that was carmen h, and her research and experiences with it were not appreciated nearly enough at the time (6 months ago or so?). i'm glad it's helping you, and that carmen gets some credit for introducing the topic here.

n.
.

Re: "Thank you!" to whoever mentioned trigger points awhile back.

Ellen J. on 11/17/02 at 09:46 (100478)

Thanks for letting me know, and thanks to Carmen also. I think there may have been another person or two who mentioned it also, at different times. For me, it has been like a miracle, as I was beginning to think I would always be in pain for the rest of my life. Again, I say all of that with some reservation, as I know from experience how easily a recurrence can happen. Recurrences are especially common at the stage I'm at where the feet don't hurt at all, which means it's easy to forget to be very careful.
Ellen J.

Re: "Thank you!" to whoever mentioned trigger points awhile back.

nancy s. on 11/17/02 at 09:55 (100480)

wow, your feet don't hurt At All? that's wonderful. you're right to be cautious at this stage, too. yes, others have come here and posted eloquently about myofascial/trigger-point therapies; i just think that carmen was the first to headline it and go into detail about it. whatever: it's good that it comes up here nowadays and is maybe becoming more of an option that people seriously consider.

clearly we're on the board at the same time this morning. where were you two nights ago at about 4:30 a.m. when i had insomnia???

it's back to bed for me now, though. take care, and thanks again.

n.
.

Re: "Thank you!" to whoever mentioned trigger points awhile back.

carmen h on 11/18/02 at 10:09 (100559)

Glad you found some relief. It makes all the research and typing worth it if one person got some relief.
I think if more people were open minded about the positives of trigger point therapy there would be a alot more success stories.
Good for you!
:o)

Re: "Thank you!" to whoever mentioned trigger points awhile back.

Ellen J. on 11/18/02 at 16:24 (100586)

Hi Carmen,
I am not sure why some people aren't open to trigger point therapy, but maybe they think it is the same thing as accupressure or something like that. From what I've read, trigger points are scientifically proven to exist and the therapy is apparently used quite often in chronic pain treatment--at least, in cases where trigger points are the contributing factor toward the pain. I myself am just learning about it and am fascinated by the results I've had.
I do appreciate you posting the information about this subject awhile back. I hope you have had some success using this therapy too!
Ellen J.

Re: "Thank you!" to whoever mentioned trigger points awhile back.

Leon S. on 11/18/02 at 18:38 (100598)

Is there a web site for these trigger points?

Re: resources on trigger point therapy

Suzanne D on 11/18/02 at 19:34 (100606)

Leon, here is a message posted from Carmen in the past in which she gives a lot of resources - books and web sites - about trigger point therapy. I don't know if these links will be able to be clicked on or will have to be typed in, but I have copied and pasted it here for you. You can do a search on trigger point therapy on this message board and come up with lots of posts.

Suzanne :-)

Message Number 87261

Re: trigger points View Thread
Posted by Carmen on 6/12/02 at 08:42

You can start with the book I posted....Claire Davies is a massage therapist.
Sharon is correct Claire Davies wrote the book. Also the book by Travell & Simons Myofascial Pain and Dysfunction: The Trigger Point Manual' is worth checking out. It's VERY in depth on trigger points. Janet Travell developed the concept of myofascial pain syndrome in the 1950's. She was Kennedy's white house physician. He too suffered from trigger points. The syndrome most often occurs between the ages of 30 and 60 years...but has ben found to happen in all ages.
MPS has many complex factors to condsider so it's not an easy diagnosis. Now for the sources you need to be more versed on trigger points.
Keep in mind that not EVERY article will pertain to feet. So they must be read thoroughly and with concentration. But since you're a relatively bright person Scott when it comes to matters of the body you should find this easy reading. I use book tabs and a highlighter....it keeps my own condition in check.

First here are a few names of supporters of Trigger point therapy and it's concepts.

Bernie S. Sieglel M.D.-Former student of Travell & Simons
Joseph F. Audette, M.D.-Instructor of Harvard Medical School Director of Outpatient Services Spaulding Rehab.
Scott M. Fishman M.D. Chief of the Division of Pain Medicine Dept of Anesthesiology nad Pain Univ. of Calif.
Robert Gerwin(who actually wrote to me last week)-M.D. Neurologist in Mass.
Robert K. King-founder and president of Chicago School of Massage Therapy
Michael D. Reynolds-M.D. Rheumotologist
Devin Starlanyl-M.D.-GREAT source online
Now some online sources to read up on:

http://www.doctorsexercise.com/journal/myofascial.htm
http://www.myosymmetriesedmonton.com/lumbar.htm
http://www.sover.net/~devstar/ (this site is very informative)
http://www.olc.ort.cuhk.edu.hk/news/ETOIMS_20020314.htm (on this site if you scroll down you'll see they just did a seminar n March of 2002 on the muscles of the foot)
http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/1997/02feb/fomby2.htm (this site will tell you in the article that trigger points in the gastroc. can lead to instep foot pain...which is where I have it)

Here's on specifically for feet ( I need to read further on this one..it's extensive)
http://www.latrobe.edu.au/podiatry/myofasc/cover.html

She does seminars on spray and stretch technique and other release therapies for trigger points. She's a physical Therapist.
Mary Maloney PT
Naugatuck Physical Therapy
175 Church Street
Naugatuck, CT 203-723-0533

An excerpt from an article on MPS:

'Myofascial TrPs can entrap the nerves, blood, and lymph vessels, causing a variety of symptoms that confuse doctors and patients alike. Often nerve damage is erroneously suspected, and many expensive, unnecessary (and often painful) tests are ordered.

TrPs are formed of multiple microscopic areas called active loci (pronounced low-sigh). These loci cause the segments of the muscle fibers, called sarcomeres, to become distorted. Eventually, a contraction knot forms, as well as a taut band. When you have TrPs, your muscle strength becomes unreliable. You may also notice that when one part of your body is supported by another part while you are sleeping, the part being compressed goes numb.'

More from Devin's site Some symptoms of trigger point pain:

'shin splint-type pain [peroneus, tibialis], FMS&MPS Complex foot* (wide in front, narrow in back, high arch), Morton's foot*, heel pain [soleus, quadratus plantae, abductor hallucis, tibialis posterior]'

This was a bit more than a journal or two but it should get you started. If you need any more I have a SLEW of references. I am a plethora of information on this. I have much more to read myself so I am still learning.

Re: Trigger point website

Ellen J. on 11/18/02 at 20:48 (100609)

Here is a link that really got me started. It deals with trigger points that are specific to foot pain. This link may already have been listed in a previous message on this thread, but I'll list it again here. Carmen listed this one awhile ago also.
It is: http://www.latrobe.edu.au/podiatry/myofasc/cover.html I hope this link works and if it doesn't I apologize.
See what you think...
Ellen J.

Re: Another great link on trigger points

Ellen J. on 11/18/02 at 21:01 (100610)

Great post, Suzanne.
I will have to check out some of the links you provided. I have to say that I am familiar with the last link you listed, but have been unable to access it today. I was able to access it a couple of months ago so am not sure what's going on. I hope everyone else is having better luck getting to that website, as I think it's the best one I've read.
Here's another really good link I found which goes into detail and answers every question I had about trigger points. It focuses on athletes, but it applies to everyone. http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/1051-trigger-points-therapy.html
http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/1051-trigger-points-therapy.htm
I've put two links here because I'm not sure which one will work. The printout I have just says 'htm' at the end and I don't know if that's correct, so I've done it both ways. (I'm thinking the L got cut off in the printout process).
Ellen J.

Re: Trigger point website

Leon S. on 11/19/02 at 16:07 (100662)

Thanks for the reference. I might have misunderstood exactly what these trigger points are. Are they the origination of the related pain that shows up elsewhere as we have in the foot? At first I thought that they were somewhat like the points of accupuncture or is it really the same thing?

Re: Trigger point website

Ellen J. on 11/19/02 at 17:00 (100672)

Hi Leon,
From what I have read, trigger points can be the origin of the pain or they can result from the foot problems, then refer additional pain to the feet. Something like that, anyway. If you read some of the sites that explain them you'll find it interesting.
The trigger points are small areas of tightly knotted muscle which send pain to other areas of the body. When there are trigger points in the calf muscles, for instance, the pain usually appears in the feet. You might be able to locate the trigger points in your calves (if there are any) by pushing into the calf muscles with your fingers and feeling around for tender spots that are fairly small in size. I myself cannot yet distinquish between trigger points and adhesions sometimes. My massage therapist says I have both trigger points and adhesions in the muscles and both feel tender to me when I press on them.
Hope that explains it a bit. For a professional's explanation you can read the Trigger Point Therapy Workbook which you can find at Amazon.com. I really got alot out of that book.
Ellen J.

Re: "Thank you!" to whoever mentioned trigger points awhile back.

nancy s. on 11/17/02 at 09:40 (100477)

ellen, i believe that was carmen h, and her research and experiences with it were not appreciated nearly enough at the time (6 months ago or so?). i'm glad it's helping you, and that carmen gets some credit for introducing the topic here.

n.
.

Re: "Thank you!" to whoever mentioned trigger points awhile back.

Ellen J. on 11/17/02 at 09:46 (100478)

Thanks for letting me know, and thanks to Carmen also. I think there may have been another person or two who mentioned it also, at different times. For me, it has been like a miracle, as I was beginning to think I would always be in pain for the rest of my life. Again, I say all of that with some reservation, as I know from experience how easily a recurrence can happen. Recurrences are especially common at the stage I'm at where the feet don't hurt at all, which means it's easy to forget to be very careful.
Ellen J.

Re: "Thank you!" to whoever mentioned trigger points awhile back.

nancy s. on 11/17/02 at 09:55 (100480)

wow, your feet don't hurt At All? that's wonderful. you're right to be cautious at this stage, too. yes, others have come here and posted eloquently about myofascial/trigger-point therapies; i just think that carmen was the first to headline it and go into detail about it. whatever: it's good that it comes up here nowadays and is maybe becoming more of an option that people seriously consider.

clearly we're on the board at the same time this morning. where were you two nights ago at about 4:30 a.m. when i had insomnia???

it's back to bed for me now, though. take care, and thanks again.

n.
.

Re: "Thank you!" to whoever mentioned trigger points awhile back.

carmen h on 11/18/02 at 10:09 (100559)

Glad you found some relief. It makes all the research and typing worth it if one person got some relief.
I think if more people were open minded about the positives of trigger point therapy there would be a alot more success stories.
Good for you!
:o)

Re: "Thank you!" to whoever mentioned trigger points awhile back.

Ellen J. on 11/18/02 at 16:24 (100586)

Hi Carmen,
I am not sure why some people aren't open to trigger point therapy, but maybe they think it is the same thing as accupressure or something like that. From what I've read, trigger points are scientifically proven to exist and the therapy is apparently used quite often in chronic pain treatment--at least, in cases where trigger points are the contributing factor toward the pain. I myself am just learning about it and am fascinated by the results I've had.
I do appreciate you posting the information about this subject awhile back. I hope you have had some success using this therapy too!
Ellen J.

Re: "Thank you!" to whoever mentioned trigger points awhile back.

Leon S. on 11/18/02 at 18:38 (100598)

Is there a web site for these trigger points?

Re: resources on trigger point therapy

Suzanne D on 11/18/02 at 19:34 (100606)

Leon, here is a message posted from Carmen in the past in which she gives a lot of resources - books and web sites - about trigger point therapy. I don't know if these links will be able to be clicked on or will have to be typed in, but I have copied and pasted it here for you. You can do a search on trigger point therapy on this message board and come up with lots of posts.

Suzanne :-)

Message Number 87261

Re: trigger points View Thread
Posted by Carmen on 6/12/02 at 08:42

You can start with the book I posted....Claire Davies is a massage therapist.
Sharon is correct Claire Davies wrote the book. Also the book by Travell & Simons Myofascial Pain and Dysfunction: The Trigger Point Manual' is worth checking out. It's VERY in depth on trigger points. Janet Travell developed the concept of myofascial pain syndrome in the 1950's. She was Kennedy's white house physician. He too suffered from trigger points. The syndrome most often occurs between the ages of 30 and 60 years...but has ben found to happen in all ages.
MPS has many complex factors to condsider so it's not an easy diagnosis. Now for the sources you need to be more versed on trigger points.
Keep in mind that not EVERY article will pertain to feet. So they must be read thoroughly and with concentration. But since you're a relatively bright person Scott when it comes to matters of the body you should find this easy reading. I use book tabs and a highlighter....it keeps my own condition in check.

First here are a few names of supporters of Trigger point therapy and it's concepts.

Bernie S. Sieglel M.D.-Former student of Travell & Simons
Joseph F. Audette, M.D.-Instructor of Harvard Medical School Director of Outpatient Services Spaulding Rehab.
Scott M. Fishman M.D. Chief of the Division of Pain Medicine Dept of Anesthesiology nad Pain Univ. of Calif.
Robert Gerwin(who actually wrote to me last week)-M.D. Neurologist in Mass.
Robert K. King-founder and president of Chicago School of Massage Therapy
Michael D. Reynolds-M.D. Rheumotologist
Devin Starlanyl-M.D.-GREAT source online
Now some online sources to read up on:

http://www.doctorsexercise.com/journal/myofascial.htm
http://www.myosymmetriesedmonton.com/lumbar.htm
http://www.sover.net/~devstar/ (this site is very informative)
http://www.olc.ort.cuhk.edu.hk/news/ETOIMS_20020314.htm (on this site if you scroll down you'll see they just did a seminar n March of 2002 on the muscles of the foot)
http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/1997/02feb/fomby2.htm (this site will tell you in the article that trigger points in the gastroc. can lead to instep foot pain...which is where I have it)

Here's on specifically for feet ( I need to read further on this one..it's extensive)
http://www.latrobe.edu.au/podiatry/myofasc/cover.html

She does seminars on spray and stretch technique and other release therapies for trigger points. She's a physical Therapist.
Mary Maloney PT
Naugatuck Physical Therapy
175 Church Street
Naugatuck, CT 203-723-0533

An excerpt from an article on MPS:

'Myofascial TrPs can entrap the nerves, blood, and lymph vessels, causing a variety of symptoms that confuse doctors and patients alike. Often nerve damage is erroneously suspected, and many expensive, unnecessary (and often painful) tests are ordered.

TrPs are formed of multiple microscopic areas called active loci (pronounced low-sigh). These loci cause the segments of the muscle fibers, called sarcomeres, to become distorted. Eventually, a contraction knot forms, as well as a taut band. When you have TrPs, your muscle strength becomes unreliable. You may also notice that when one part of your body is supported by another part while you are sleeping, the part being compressed goes numb.'

More from Devin's site Some symptoms of trigger point pain:

'shin splint-type pain [peroneus, tibialis], FMS&MPS Complex foot* (wide in front, narrow in back, high arch), Morton's foot*, heel pain [soleus, quadratus plantae, abductor hallucis, tibialis posterior]'

This was a bit more than a journal or two but it should get you started. If you need any more I have a SLEW of references. I am a plethora of information on this. I have much more to read myself so I am still learning.

Re: Trigger point website

Ellen J. on 11/18/02 at 20:48 (100609)

Here is a link that really got me started. It deals with trigger points that are specific to foot pain. This link may already have been listed in a previous message on this thread, but I'll list it again here. Carmen listed this one awhile ago also.
It is: http://www.latrobe.edu.au/podiatry/myofasc/cover.html I hope this link works and if it doesn't I apologize.
See what you think...
Ellen J.

Re: Another great link on trigger points

Ellen J. on 11/18/02 at 21:01 (100610)

Great post, Suzanne.
I will have to check out some of the links you provided. I have to say that I am familiar with the last link you listed, but have been unable to access it today. I was able to access it a couple of months ago so am not sure what's going on. I hope everyone else is having better luck getting to that website, as I think it's the best one I've read.
Here's another really good link I found which goes into detail and answers every question I had about trigger points. It focuses on athletes, but it applies to everyone. http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/1051-trigger-points-therapy.html
http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/1051-trigger-points-therapy.htm
I've put two links here because I'm not sure which one will work. The printout I have just says 'htm' at the end and I don't know if that's correct, so I've done it both ways. (I'm thinking the L got cut off in the printout process).
Ellen J.

Re: Trigger point website

Leon S. on 11/19/02 at 16:07 (100662)

Thanks for the reference. I might have misunderstood exactly what these trigger points are. Are they the origination of the related pain that shows up elsewhere as we have in the foot? At first I thought that they were somewhat like the points of accupuncture or is it really the same thing?

Re: Trigger point website

Ellen J. on 11/19/02 at 17:00 (100672)

Hi Leon,
From what I have read, trigger points can be the origin of the pain or they can result from the foot problems, then refer additional pain to the feet. Something like that, anyway. If you read some of the sites that explain them you'll find it interesting.
The trigger points are small areas of tightly knotted muscle which send pain to other areas of the body. When there are trigger points in the calf muscles, for instance, the pain usually appears in the feet. You might be able to locate the trigger points in your calves (if there are any) by pushing into the calf muscles with your fingers and feeling around for tender spots that are fairly small in size. I myself cannot yet distinquish between trigger points and adhesions sometimes. My massage therapist says I have both trigger points and adhesions in the muscles and both feel tender to me when I press on them.
Hope that explains it a bit. For a professional's explanation you can read the Trigger Point Therapy Workbook which you can find at Amazon.com. I really got alot out of that book.
Ellen J.