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this social/support board

Posted by nancy s. on 12/07/02 at 18:22 (102133)

in response to a small innuendo on another board here sometime in the past couple of days, i -- a non-expert -- offer a little history for anyone not involved on heelspurs.com when it was just one message board, not the several topic-oriented boards we have now:

for a few years, scott ran this site with one message board only -- it contained all posts on any and every subject. he worked hard to organize it better as the number of posts/posters grew and the breadth of topics widened. from many old-timers, myself included, there was quite a bit of fuss over the evolution of changes scott made. however, it has become clear that dividing the boards by topic was very much for the best.

so i thank scottr for that, AND for the social/support board, which could have been argued against as a non-necessity; he could have left it out. the social/support board was a gift provided by scott -- because he didn't want the other boards cluttered with non-foot information, and, i suspect, also out of the goodness of his heart. people are in pain and partially looking for support and antidotes to depression here at this site; people also make nice acquaintances and a few real friends here at this site. without the social/support board, much of this wouldn't have been possible after the division of the one board into several.

ten cheers for the freedom that foot-suffering people have to post anything on their minds on this board -- whether it's snow, moon pies, emu oil, eating birks, lifestyle topics both silly and serious, depression, work, families, intellectual meanderings, the world.

nancy
.

Re: this social/support board

Sheila S on 12/07/02 at 18:38 (102138)

Well-said, Nancy! I've greatly appreciated ALL the sections of this site and have enjoyed reading. I don't even have heelspurs or PF. Was hunting info. on another foot problem. But I've gotten wonderful assistance here! Thanks to Scott. =)

Re: this social/support board

john h on 12/07/02 at 18:56 (102143)

Nancy you are dead on the mark.

Re: this social/support board

carynz on 12/07/02 at 20:59 (102168)

bouquets to you. I am a relatively new reader/poster of only a few months and am so glad I found all of you (including the docs!) This website has been a godsend not only for learning more about the conditions a lot of us suffer with but I have had many a laugh reading the social board and contributing to some of the posts. A few of you are quite witty and the chuckles have made my day. As for Scott, keep up the good work on this site. I know I really appreciate all his efforts.

Cheers Caryn

Re: this social/support board

wendyn on 12/08/02 at 01:10 (102187)

That's right Nancy - thanks for the reminder of how these boards developed.

In the past, foot pain folks had to search through ALL posts to try to find information they might be looking for.

Now, we have everything nicely organized. Those more intellectual/factual folk have the option of sticking around the main boards, and not wandering into the unregimented realm of the social/support board - (which tends to be much less informative, but MUCH more fun)

For me, I have NO interest in ESWT, and very little interest in PF. I have some waning interest in TTS and orthotics but - let's face it...other than the odd comment to try to help someone else out...I'm here for the social/support aspect.

I'm an 'incurable' case because of RSD, so I come here looking for people who know what it's like to find themselves in tears from standing in line for more than 5 minutes. Doesn't matter to me if they're like that from PF, TTS, or whatever...and it doesn't matter to me what they're 'like' as a person.

I'm just looking to hang out in cyber space with some interesting folks who share the common bond of chronic and sometimes incurable pain.

Re: this social/support board

elliott on 12/08/02 at 09:33 (102210)

Funny, nancy s, but the last time I made an attempt at 'intellectual meanderings' on this board (surprise examination paradox), it was your incessant unkind comments in particular that led me to drop further discussion of it. So, I guess if it fits in with your idea of what is acceptable, then it's OK, if not, not.

I have no problems with a social board. I may feel there is misplaced emphasis at times, but that's my own opinion. I hope it's OK to give one's own opinion, because we don't see too much of that on Social, which is taken up almost entirely by discussions of forgettable, super-safe topics like the weather, craving for fatty foods, cultural differences. That's fine--I can just skip them--but some have never given their opinions on ANYTHING for fear of not being accepted by the mighty G8. Snicker if you like, but it's true. So instead they go on and on with super-safe, forgettable posts. Great board, Social.

Happy holidays, everyone, let it snow, eat and be merry!

[]

Re: Just for you Elliott

wendyn on 12/08/02 at 09:41 (102211)

One big

((((((((((((((((((HUG)))))))))))))))))))))

Re: this social/support board

Carole C in NOLA on 12/08/02 at 09:47 (102213)

I've been online for a very long time.

I've never found a message board or newsgroup that is as kind and caring as this one, of several hundred I've frequented. Usually sites where people are kind, are ruined by trolls that like to stir up trouble and egg people on to say unkind things to them so as to disrupt any kind and caring environments. For some reason there are a lot of people who get their kicks out of that sort of thing. Thanks to ScottR, we really haven't had much trouble with trolls here and we can discuss the various topics described by the titles of the message boards (including Social/Support) and more.

One thing that I really like about this board, is that there are a lot of people here who make an effort to post kind and caring posts, and not to respond to unkind, complaining, or judgemental posts. An example is Suzanne... who always has something kind and sweet.

Carole C

Re: Oops

Carole C in NOLA on 12/08/02 at 09:48 (102214)

Oops, I meant 'Suzanne, who always has something kind and sweet to say'.

Wendy too! And many others. :)

Carole C

Re: this social/support board

Kathy G on 12/08/02 at 09:53 (102215)

I just love the Social Board! I will sometimes make reference to a 'friend from the PF boards' to my friends. They know that this is another group of people with whom I have regular contact. My husband, for example, asked me if Carole had mentioned the election. He knows that John was an Air Force pilot, that Nancy has an antique shop, and it goes on and on.

We come to these Boards with one thing in common, foot pain, and we develop relationships of support and care and in the process, we become friends. We get off on crazy tangents and we make each other smile or laugh. I often forget that the reason we're friends is that we shared foot problems! If I woke up tomorrow and found out that my feet had healed, after doing a victorious dance, I would sit down and let everyone here know. And I would continue to check the boards to hear how everyone is doing and to give encouragement and advice to newcomers.

Scott did a wonderful service when he set up this website and his addition of the Social Board was just an added bonus. I think of him with fondness and admiration and I thank him every day.

Re: this social/support board

Carole C in NOLA on 12/08/02 at 10:16 (102219)

It's really nice to be able to 'talk' to friends who understand the effects that heel pain has on ordinary life. Even though my heel pain is essentially gone, there are still times when I do strange things that only people here might understand, simply to play it safe.

It's also nice to be able to help people if I can. Especially during this time of year, it is said that it is better to give than to receive. That is so true. I really do care about people who have foot pain, because I was so miserable with it myself at this time of year last year. Last winter (in February, maybe?) I posted to the Ask the Foot Doctors board, asking them if their PF patients ever got completely well. Of course they said yes, almost always. Now, I am essentially healed myself, and I hope that my posts describing that give some hope to people who wonder if they will ever get any better.

Many of us here try to help people if we can, and that includes people who are suffering pain themselves as well as those of us who are better.

Carole C

Re: this social/support board

john h on 12/08/02 at 11:27 (102237)

Elliott: you are obviously a very smart intelectual person but you sure lack the social graces of life. I wonder if you really understand what some people like Nancy has endured to get to where she is now. Do you really know much about Nancy at all? I wonder if you grasp that the social board helps some people make it through the day. You are indeed very bright but seem to be lacking in matters of the heart and soul. Shame on you Elliott for your post to Nancy

Re: this social/support board

Julie on 12/08/02 at 14:44 (102263)

Elliott, it's always 'ok to give one's own opinion'. The problem, if it is right to call it that, with your opinions, is that that are often offered sarcastically, with a sneer. You consistently give the impression that you feel yourself superior to everything that goes on on this social board, and to everyone who enjoys the fun here. Not feeling a part of it, and resenting that, is what has alienated you from it.

But believe this: there is no-one here, no-one, who does not respect you for what you give of your knowledge, who does not want you to be part of things, and who would not welcome you with open arms if you ever showed any inclination to be part of the fun. As long as you stand outside, sneering, you will be outside. That is no-one's doing but your own.

Re: this social/support board

pala on 12/08/02 at 17:29 (102274)

julie i am one person here who NEVER thinks that knowledge and intelligence is worth constant meanness nor can i respect a person, no matter how smart and no matter how much that is shared, who is anonymously mean to folks online who are in pain or are trying to help others. ever. period . there's a strong opinion for you elliot.

Re: this social/support board

Pauline on 12/08/02 at 17:32 (102275)

I personally don't think this is unconditional acceptance or shows respect for a person's individual opinion. I see it as a condition being placed upon them in order for them to be accepted into the group.

Any group that only accepts it's members based on how they feel a person should express themselves in my opinion isn't any different than a group practicing segregation.

Re: this social/support board

wendyn on 12/08/02 at 18:04 (102278)

Pauline, this is the point exactly.

NO one has the right to DEMAND that others behave in a certain way. NO one has the right to tell you how you have to express yourself. If the southern folks here want to discuss moon pie till hell freezes over (I still don't know what moon pie is) - then so be it.

I'm glad that we agree. (I think?)

Re: this social/support board

Nancy N on 12/08/02 at 18:11 (102282)

Pauline--

In a sense, I think you have a point. But when a negative response to a person is the result of someone's own arrogant/inhospitable actions, then it's not segregation, it's a natural human reaction to that person's own actions. That goes for message boards, conference rooms, classrooms, neighbors, and even families--anywhere where we find at least two human beings interacting.

It's a noble goal for all of us to treat each other with decency and respect. Nobody who decides to venture forth offering vinegar rather than honey should be surprised if they don't get very far.

Re: segregation?? the Right to Demand

Sheila S on 12/09/02 at 05:18 (102316)

I hate to say this, but every human being out there segregates on a daily basis. And every group. (If you want to use that rather prejudiced and bigotted word.)

Every human separates themselves, instinctively and consciously, from people who disrespect them, hurt them, offend them, etc., etc.

All of us have been on both sides too, at one point or another - the rejected and the rejector.

Everyone DOES have the right, and I have the RIGHT, to demand (yes, demand) respect and/or certain appropriate behavior. And we all have the options of departing an unpleasant person's company, or complaining to them and asking for better behavior, or complaining about them and having them removed from whatever they're involved in. It's everyone's own opinion what is 'appropriate' to them. However, you will find that 90% of the time if one person is highly offended, the majority feel the same way to some degree or another. Which would lead to the idea that most people still have a basic set of values on what's appropriate treatment of another human being.

Anyone with kids has taught them while growing up to respect elders and those in authority (or at least, parents did up until the last few years)...and to couch their answers and behavior in respect, which does NOT mean keeping one's mouth shut. Why is it when some get older they think respect for their fellow human being no longer matters? And when the tables turn on them them, they scream unjust treatment?

It's still the age old rule that applies: Do unto other as you would have them do unto you. Which includes, speak unto others as you would have them speak unto you. There will always be separation. It's human nature.

Discussing moon pies is one thing.....but you say NO one has the right to tell someone how to express themselves? What if someone here discussed moon pies with a nasty 4 letter word inserted every sentence along with maybe a few racial slurs? It would not be permitted. Everyone would write scott so fast the net would jamb. We DO have the right.

Psychology will tell you that people who speak down to other people, have an inferiority complex. Thus speaking down makes them feel superior, which they desperately need to feel. The mature one's will think about a request to modify their behavior/answers and apologize when they get their hand slapped. The immature one's will get offended and say kiss my
#*$%.

I say..... wHaTeVeRRRRRRRR. It's take all kinds to make the world go 'round. How boring it would be if we were all the exact same. Just think, there would be NO disussions on here. One statement made and everyone would agree. =)

Re: segregation?? the Right to Demand

Julie on 12/09/02 at 05:33 (102317)

Passionate words, Sheila, and I'm with you. But I wonder if most people would. I wish you'd been around a few months ago when (on another message board, not this one) I and a friend objected to an anti-semitic joke. The webmaster removed it, but we were roundly chastised - to the point of abuse, some of which got truly nasty - by a dozen or so people who insisted on the right to 'free spech', i.e. the freedom to be offensive and tell racist jokes. We got almost no stand-up support, though several people emailed us privately.

Perhaps it would be different here - I like to think and hope so.

Re: Pala, Elliott

Julie on 12/09/02 at 05:46 (102321)

Paula, I know what you mean and (since I've had more barbs from Elliott than most people here) how you feel. Nevertheless I do respect him for his knowledge and intelligence, and for the help he has given people here.

Because people can change. I don't think they can BE changed, but they can change. I think lots of us have been hoping for ages that he would. And he has, a bit...

Elliott, allow me to join Wendy in sending you a big

(((((((((((hug))))))))))))

Re: segregation?? the Right to Demand

wendyn on 12/09/02 at 08:00 (102325)

Sheila, sorry - I don't think I was clear in my comments. (The danger of trying to be brief).

I don't think that anyone has the right to dictate the subject of discussion here, simply because they don't feel it meets with their definition of 'worthy' subject material. Worthy subject material is whatever people feel like discussing.

If people want to discuss ESWT, snow, feet, thanksgiving, or the election - then that's fine. If I don't have anything to say on the subject, then I won't. I don't think it's my place to tell people that they should or shouldn't discuss something.

I do think it's okay to expect a certain level of courtesy and respect during discussion.

I don't know if that makes any sense or not - but I can't find anything to disagree with in your post. Evidently you just say it better than I do!?

Re: segregation?? the Right to Demand

Tammie on 12/09/02 at 08:02 (102326)

Oh this is very deep I am not sure I get it all but some I do and I tend to agree! Elliott is a very smart man ,in this feild of foot troubles!Actually he is some what a genious,lol and leaves me eager to read his next post to see what he offers as help . Thinking maybe there is something else I should try!

When it comes to the social end or the picking peoples minds and that superiour thing I think he needs alot of help there. I wonder why this is and think I really feel sorry to watch him get in thease moods and cause alot of people grief! The people hear do not need this at all!

All of the people here have one thing in common that is our feet! We are allowed to voice our thoughts about help on many sites here.Nobody has to come to the social board if they cant be social.My mom taught me alot in my life and respect was at the top! I also loved animals and respect of them was another thing I know and I learned a great love for them as they made my life with learning to respect and to love. I worry that some of us might not have found love or compassion.

Thease things cant just be put on a plate and consumed, they are something that you learn when a young child and continue to practice thru your life, always getting better and as this maturity happens this sometime hard word works its way in, it is the word LOVE but you see this is a very hard word if you never expieranced it, as it does not mean partial or picking spats, of tring to spar with a partener, if you do not know how to show that .There are much better ways to get your words out. I think you know this as I have seen this same pattern alot here it seems wehn things are quit and people are not in the same mode as you and they just chat as tho they were all together drinking a cup of coffee or tea.Just hanging out and want some friendship or just someone who will show that hard word such as compassion.I hope my lack of spelling this is not intended to accuse or hurt anyone as I try very hard to keep compassion and love to my fellow friends as well as in my family life! I just needed to talk as I sip my coffee!

Re: Pala, Elliott

pala on 12/09/02 at 09:35 (102334)

julie, i think it's a matter of what we value, and i, unlike most people as far as i can tell, value kindess above all other values. i have the utmost comtempt for gratuitous cruelty. that might make an interesting discussion. what do we value most and least. hypocrisy is right up there on my contempt list as well. hypocritic meanness, well, don't get me started......what do others value most least?

Re: Pala, Elliott

nancy s. on 12/09/02 at 12:36 (102359)

what a lot of interesting reading here! i'd have contributed more, but the computer was not hooked up because of yet another house renovation that took away the phone line for a day or two. now i come back to 200+ posts overall. you guys have been busy, and i'll be busy all day tomorrow trying to catch up (i have a lot of REreading to do here).

i hope everyone's feet are a bit better today!

and i think winona was treated much better than the non-rich and non-famous would have been.

and . . .

see ya,
nancy
.

Re: this social/support board

JudyS on 12/09/02 at 12:58 (102364)

I think Pauline has a point. While I hardly condone rudeness or cruelty on this very special message board (or anywhere else), I too feel that there is a bit of a double standard here. There seems to be a 'clique' in which some members' insensitivity is overlooked while that of outsiders is sharply criticized. Those insensitive members are defended by other members when brought to task by 'outsiders'. That defense goes something like this; 'So and so is a valuable contributor here so it should be overlooked when so and so's behavior here is less-than-considerate.' It's definately kept me, and some really swell folks, away. I know I've asked this question before; aren't we all valuable contributors?
I'm surprised that no one has noticed that Elliott is just being Elliott. He was challenged and he responded. He doesn't mind shaking things up now and then in his very special style - rude though it can seem. I think he plans it - and I think I've made that observance before so I'll say this once more - well done Elliott. You're way good at getting a reaction. Hope I haven't insulted you by being too simplistic in my simplistic analysis. I think you definately contribute an enormous amount of great philosophy and information here but I guess you sort of invite passion when you get confrontational with the clique. I'm sure I'll get a reaction too but, frankly, this 'clique' thing has been bothering me for a long time because this board was my salvation during some seriously dark days. To me it just doesn't matter who's being insensitive - but rather that it exists here in several degrees and forms. I've see it in generalizing, patronizing, demeaning an issue by joking about it, arrogance, inflexibility and more. We need to look in the mirror before we hassle Elliott too much. He's a valuable contributor here too.

Re: this social/support board

Tammie on 12/09/02 at 13:30 (102370)

I cant disagree in all that you said, you had put it in better words.The only thingI would like to add and I think I did .Social means something and this board has differeant places to talk about just about anything. So therefore if we dont like things we just can type it away and find something more to our likings.

I do not fighting not real or on any sites! I hardly come here, as it sometimes seems like alot of the former group hadly replies and some of the formal group have faded away, I wonder why? I cant believe one person did this! I just hope that we get back to something other than this it seems so juvinal, like my spelling lol, but I keep going on and someday who knows I may become a great speller, if that were my goal! Right now I am trying to get thru some mighty scary things,but mostly worry about the what ifs, those hurt more then the tests.

Re: gotcha Wendyn!

Sheila S. on 12/09/02 at 16:18 (102389)

LOL Wendyn... Perfect sense. You are so right - 'worthy' is in the eyes of the reader.

I've gotten in trouble many times for brevity in a rush, and usually it's for leaving out an extremely important word like 'was' or 'wasn't' and it says totally the opposite of what I intended...

I rather enjoyed the snow discussion. =) Thank goodness they changed our forecast for tomorrow to rain (I think...)

S

Re: segregation?? the Right to Demand

john h on 12/09/02 at 17:17 (102404)

Julie: Do you have the ACLU in England or something similar. They would have probably been all over you and your friend.

Re: segregation?? the Right to Demand

Sharon W on 12/09/02 at 17:40 (102414)

Wendyn,

I agree with you completely on this. Like Elliott, some of the subjects on this board don't interest me. But that ISN'T because I do not consider these subjects 'worthy'. I certainly have no objection to people discussing moon pies (which I don't like) -- I just don't feel like participating.

Being mean or nasty to other posters is a separate issue. Like many others, I believe it is important to express our opinions without being rude.

Sharon

Re: Inconsequential threads

Julie on 12/10/02 at 02:26 (102489)

Sometimes I feel like entering a discussion of a funny, inconsequential, less-than-serious or downright frivolous topic. Sometimes I don't. When I do, I have some fun. When I don't, I just don't.

The moon pie thread didn't grab me (I didn't know what a moon pie was and I guess I didn't want to show my ignorance) so I didn't enter it (though it was a relief to find out, finally, what a moon pie is!) On the other hand, I had fun with the snowflake thread.

Why should I mind, why should anyone mind, that others are enjoying bouncing posts about moon pies or snowflakes or edible Arizonas around in cyberspace?

And it beats me why should anyone mind to the point of actually saying so, dismissively and sometimes jeeringly, making at least some people (not me, I'm with Nancy, I'm not afraid of bullies either) feel abashed or ashamed or maybe less like joining in in future.

There's a word for it - party-pooper.

Re: ACLU

Julie on 12/10/02 at 02:28 (102490)

We have 'Liberty', which is similar.

What do you mean, John? Are you saying you think the ACLU would have upheld the right to tell racist jokes? I doubt it.

Re: Inconsequential threads

Sharon W on 12/10/02 at 07:52 (102513)

Exactly. Well said.

Sharon

Re: Inconsequential threads

pala on 12/10/02 at 08:01 (102519)

i agree again. i would use different words for it tho: mean . i agreed twice. i think we've gone beyond clique to cult. let's see, what color robes should we wear?

Re: Inconsequential threads

Sheila S on 12/10/02 at 10:15 (102540)

GREEEEEEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Inconsequential threads

john h on 12/10/02 at 11:12 (102557)

Good points Julie.

Re: Inconsequential threads

Julie on 12/10/02 at 17:41 (102607)

White.

Re: Inconsequential threads

Nancy N on 12/11/02 at 09:45 (102698)

Purple!

Re: Inconsequential threads

nancy s. on 12/11/02 at 15:58 (102740)

pink with green polka dots, plus an ascot, which can be any color.

Re: ACLU

john h on 12/11/02 at 17:56 (102753)

No Julie. I was just wondering if you had the ACLU in England.

Re: this social/support board

Sheila S on 12/07/02 at 18:38 (102138)

Well-said, Nancy! I've greatly appreciated ALL the sections of this site and have enjoyed reading. I don't even have heelspurs or PF. Was hunting info. on another foot problem. But I've gotten wonderful assistance here! Thanks to Scott. =)

Re: this social/support board

john h on 12/07/02 at 18:56 (102143)

Nancy you are dead on the mark.

Re: this social/support board

carynz on 12/07/02 at 20:59 (102168)

bouquets to you. I am a relatively new reader/poster of only a few months and am so glad I found all of you (including the docs!) This website has been a godsend not only for learning more about the conditions a lot of us suffer with but I have had many a laugh reading the social board and contributing to some of the posts. A few of you are quite witty and the chuckles have made my day. As for Scott, keep up the good work on this site. I know I really appreciate all his efforts.

Cheers Caryn

Re: this social/support board

wendyn on 12/08/02 at 01:10 (102187)

That's right Nancy - thanks for the reminder of how these boards developed.

In the past, foot pain folks had to search through ALL posts to try to find information they might be looking for.

Now, we have everything nicely organized. Those more intellectual/factual folk have the option of sticking around the main boards, and not wandering into the unregimented realm of the social/support board - (which tends to be much less informative, but MUCH more fun)

For me, I have NO interest in ESWT, and very little interest in PF. I have some waning interest in TTS and orthotics but - let's face it...other than the odd comment to try to help someone else out...I'm here for the social/support aspect.

I'm an 'incurable' case because of RSD, so I come here looking for people who know what it's like to find themselves in tears from standing in line for more than 5 minutes. Doesn't matter to me if they're like that from PF, TTS, or whatever...and it doesn't matter to me what they're 'like' as a person.

I'm just looking to hang out in cyber space with some interesting folks who share the common bond of chronic and sometimes incurable pain.

Re: this social/support board

elliott on 12/08/02 at 09:33 (102210)

Funny, nancy s, but the last time I made an attempt at 'intellectual meanderings' on this board (surprise examination paradox), it was your incessant unkind comments in particular that led me to drop further discussion of it. So, I guess if it fits in with your idea of what is acceptable, then it's OK, if not, not.

I have no problems with a social board. I may feel there is misplaced emphasis at times, but that's my own opinion. I hope it's OK to give one's own opinion, because we don't see too much of that on Social, which is taken up almost entirely by discussions of forgettable, super-safe topics like the weather, craving for fatty foods, cultural differences. That's fine--I can just skip them--but some have never given their opinions on ANYTHING for fear of not being accepted by the mighty G8. Snicker if you like, but it's true. So instead they go on and on with super-safe, forgettable posts. Great board, Social.

Happy holidays, everyone, let it snow, eat and be merry!

[]

Re: Just for you Elliott

wendyn on 12/08/02 at 09:41 (102211)

One big

((((((((((((((((((HUG)))))))))))))))))))))

Re: this social/support board

Carole C in NOLA on 12/08/02 at 09:47 (102213)

I've been online for a very long time.

I've never found a message board or newsgroup that is as kind and caring as this one, of several hundred I've frequented. Usually sites where people are kind, are ruined by trolls that like to stir up trouble and egg people on to say unkind things to them so as to disrupt any kind and caring environments. For some reason there are a lot of people who get their kicks out of that sort of thing. Thanks to ScottR, we really haven't had much trouble with trolls here and we can discuss the various topics described by the titles of the message boards (including Social/Support) and more.

One thing that I really like about this board, is that there are a lot of people here who make an effort to post kind and caring posts, and not to respond to unkind, complaining, or judgemental posts. An example is Suzanne... who always has something kind and sweet.

Carole C

Re: Oops

Carole C in NOLA on 12/08/02 at 09:48 (102214)

Oops, I meant 'Suzanne, who always has something kind and sweet to say'.

Wendy too! And many others. :)

Carole C

Re: this social/support board

Kathy G on 12/08/02 at 09:53 (102215)

I just love the Social Board! I will sometimes make reference to a 'friend from the PF boards' to my friends. They know that this is another group of people with whom I have regular contact. My husband, for example, asked me if Carole had mentioned the election. He knows that John was an Air Force pilot, that Nancy has an antique shop, and it goes on and on.

We come to these Boards with one thing in common, foot pain, and we develop relationships of support and care and in the process, we become friends. We get off on crazy tangents and we make each other smile or laugh. I often forget that the reason we're friends is that we shared foot problems! If I woke up tomorrow and found out that my feet had healed, after doing a victorious dance, I would sit down and let everyone here know. And I would continue to check the boards to hear how everyone is doing and to give encouragement and advice to newcomers.

Scott did a wonderful service when he set up this website and his addition of the Social Board was just an added bonus. I think of him with fondness and admiration and I thank him every day.

Re: this social/support board

Carole C in NOLA on 12/08/02 at 10:16 (102219)

It's really nice to be able to 'talk' to friends who understand the effects that heel pain has on ordinary life. Even though my heel pain is essentially gone, there are still times when I do strange things that only people here might understand, simply to play it safe.

It's also nice to be able to help people if I can. Especially during this time of year, it is said that it is better to give than to receive. That is so true. I really do care about people who have foot pain, because I was so miserable with it myself at this time of year last year. Last winter (in February, maybe?) I posted to the Ask the Foot Doctors board, asking them if their PF patients ever got completely well. Of course they said yes, almost always. Now, I am essentially healed myself, and I hope that my posts describing that give some hope to people who wonder if they will ever get any better.

Many of us here try to help people if we can, and that includes people who are suffering pain themselves as well as those of us who are better.

Carole C

Re: this social/support board

john h on 12/08/02 at 11:27 (102237)

Elliott: you are obviously a very smart intelectual person but you sure lack the social graces of life. I wonder if you really understand what some people like Nancy has endured to get to where she is now. Do you really know much about Nancy at all? I wonder if you grasp that the social board helps some people make it through the day. You are indeed very bright but seem to be lacking in matters of the heart and soul. Shame on you Elliott for your post to Nancy

Re: this social/support board

Julie on 12/08/02 at 14:44 (102263)

Elliott, it's always 'ok to give one's own opinion'. The problem, if it is right to call it that, with your opinions, is that that are often offered sarcastically, with a sneer. You consistently give the impression that you feel yourself superior to everything that goes on on this social board, and to everyone who enjoys the fun here. Not feeling a part of it, and resenting that, is what has alienated you from it.

But believe this: there is no-one here, no-one, who does not respect you for what you give of your knowledge, who does not want you to be part of things, and who would not welcome you with open arms if you ever showed any inclination to be part of the fun. As long as you stand outside, sneering, you will be outside. That is no-one's doing but your own.

Re: this social/support board

pala on 12/08/02 at 17:29 (102274)

julie i am one person here who NEVER thinks that knowledge and intelligence is worth constant meanness nor can i respect a person, no matter how smart and no matter how much that is shared, who is anonymously mean to folks online who are in pain or are trying to help others. ever. period . there's a strong opinion for you elliot.

Re: this social/support board

Pauline on 12/08/02 at 17:32 (102275)

I personally don't think this is unconditional acceptance or shows respect for a person's individual opinion. I see it as a condition being placed upon them in order for them to be accepted into the group.

Any group that only accepts it's members based on how they feel a person should express themselves in my opinion isn't any different than a group practicing segregation.

Re: this social/support board

wendyn on 12/08/02 at 18:04 (102278)

Pauline, this is the point exactly.

NO one has the right to DEMAND that others behave in a certain way. NO one has the right to tell you how you have to express yourself. If the southern folks here want to discuss moon pie till hell freezes over (I still don't know what moon pie is) - then so be it.

I'm glad that we agree. (I think?)

Re: this social/support board

Nancy N on 12/08/02 at 18:11 (102282)

Pauline--

In a sense, I think you have a point. But when a negative response to a person is the result of someone's own arrogant/inhospitable actions, then it's not segregation, it's a natural human reaction to that person's own actions. That goes for message boards, conference rooms, classrooms, neighbors, and even families--anywhere where we find at least two human beings interacting.

It's a noble goal for all of us to treat each other with decency and respect. Nobody who decides to venture forth offering vinegar rather than honey should be surprised if they don't get very far.

Re: segregation?? the Right to Demand

Sheila S on 12/09/02 at 05:18 (102316)

I hate to say this, but every human being out there segregates on a daily basis. And every group. (If you want to use that rather prejudiced and bigotted word.)

Every human separates themselves, instinctively and consciously, from people who disrespect them, hurt them, offend them, etc., etc.

All of us have been on both sides too, at one point or another - the rejected and the rejector.

Everyone DOES have the right, and I have the RIGHT, to demand (yes, demand) respect and/or certain appropriate behavior. And we all have the options of departing an unpleasant person's company, or complaining to them and asking for better behavior, or complaining about them and having them removed from whatever they're involved in. It's everyone's own opinion what is 'appropriate' to them. However, you will find that 90% of the time if one person is highly offended, the majority feel the same way to some degree or another. Which would lead to the idea that most people still have a basic set of values on what's appropriate treatment of another human being.

Anyone with kids has taught them while growing up to respect elders and those in authority (or at least, parents did up until the last few years)...and to couch their answers and behavior in respect, which does NOT mean keeping one's mouth shut. Why is it when some get older they think respect for their fellow human being no longer matters? And when the tables turn on them them, they scream unjust treatment?

It's still the age old rule that applies: Do unto other as you would have them do unto you. Which includes, speak unto others as you would have them speak unto you. There will always be separation. It's human nature.

Discussing moon pies is one thing.....but you say NO one has the right to tell someone how to express themselves? What if someone here discussed moon pies with a nasty 4 letter word inserted every sentence along with maybe a few racial slurs? It would not be permitted. Everyone would write scott so fast the net would jamb. We DO have the right.

Psychology will tell you that people who speak down to other people, have an inferiority complex. Thus speaking down makes them feel superior, which they desperately need to feel. The mature one's will think about a request to modify their behavior/answers and apologize when they get their hand slapped. The immature one's will get offended and say kiss my
#*$%.

I say..... wHaTeVeRRRRRRRR. It's take all kinds to make the world go 'round. How boring it would be if we were all the exact same. Just think, there would be NO disussions on here. One statement made and everyone would agree. =)

Re: segregation?? the Right to Demand

Julie on 12/09/02 at 05:33 (102317)

Passionate words, Sheila, and I'm with you. But I wonder if most people would. I wish you'd been around a few months ago when (on another message board, not this one) I and a friend objected to an anti-semitic joke. The webmaster removed it, but we were roundly chastised - to the point of abuse, some of which got truly nasty - by a dozen or so people who insisted on the right to 'free spech', i.e. the freedom to be offensive and tell racist jokes. We got almost no stand-up support, though several people emailed us privately.

Perhaps it would be different here - I like to think and hope so.

Re: Pala, Elliott

Julie on 12/09/02 at 05:46 (102321)

Paula, I know what you mean and (since I've had more barbs from Elliott than most people here) how you feel. Nevertheless I do respect him for his knowledge and intelligence, and for the help he has given people here.

Because people can change. I don't think they can BE changed, but they can change. I think lots of us have been hoping for ages that he would. And he has, a bit...

Elliott, allow me to join Wendy in sending you a big

(((((((((((hug))))))))))))

Re: segregation?? the Right to Demand

wendyn on 12/09/02 at 08:00 (102325)

Sheila, sorry - I don't think I was clear in my comments. (The danger of trying to be brief).

I don't think that anyone has the right to dictate the subject of discussion here, simply because they don't feel it meets with their definition of 'worthy' subject material. Worthy subject material is whatever people feel like discussing.

If people want to discuss ESWT, snow, feet, thanksgiving, or the election - then that's fine. If I don't have anything to say on the subject, then I won't. I don't think it's my place to tell people that they should or shouldn't discuss something.

I do think it's okay to expect a certain level of courtesy and respect during discussion.

I don't know if that makes any sense or not - but I can't find anything to disagree with in your post. Evidently you just say it better than I do!?

Re: segregation?? the Right to Demand

Tammie on 12/09/02 at 08:02 (102326)

Oh this is very deep I am not sure I get it all but some I do and I tend to agree! Elliott is a very smart man ,in this feild of foot troubles!Actually he is some what a genious,lol and leaves me eager to read his next post to see what he offers as help . Thinking maybe there is something else I should try!

When it comes to the social end or the picking peoples minds and that superiour thing I think he needs alot of help there. I wonder why this is and think I really feel sorry to watch him get in thease moods and cause alot of people grief! The people hear do not need this at all!

All of the people here have one thing in common that is our feet! We are allowed to voice our thoughts about help on many sites here.Nobody has to come to the social board if they cant be social.My mom taught me alot in my life and respect was at the top! I also loved animals and respect of them was another thing I know and I learned a great love for them as they made my life with learning to respect and to love. I worry that some of us might not have found love or compassion.

Thease things cant just be put on a plate and consumed, they are something that you learn when a young child and continue to practice thru your life, always getting better and as this maturity happens this sometime hard word works its way in, it is the word LOVE but you see this is a very hard word if you never expieranced it, as it does not mean partial or picking spats, of tring to spar with a partener, if you do not know how to show that .There are much better ways to get your words out. I think you know this as I have seen this same pattern alot here it seems wehn things are quit and people are not in the same mode as you and they just chat as tho they were all together drinking a cup of coffee or tea.Just hanging out and want some friendship or just someone who will show that hard word such as compassion.I hope my lack of spelling this is not intended to accuse or hurt anyone as I try very hard to keep compassion and love to my fellow friends as well as in my family life! I just needed to talk as I sip my coffee!

Re: Pala, Elliott

pala on 12/09/02 at 09:35 (102334)

julie, i think it's a matter of what we value, and i, unlike most people as far as i can tell, value kindess above all other values. i have the utmost comtempt for gratuitous cruelty. that might make an interesting discussion. what do we value most and least. hypocrisy is right up there on my contempt list as well. hypocritic meanness, well, don't get me started......what do others value most least?

Re: Pala, Elliott

nancy s. on 12/09/02 at 12:36 (102359)

what a lot of interesting reading here! i'd have contributed more, but the computer was not hooked up because of yet another house renovation that took away the phone line for a day or two. now i come back to 200+ posts overall. you guys have been busy, and i'll be busy all day tomorrow trying to catch up (i have a lot of REreading to do here).

i hope everyone's feet are a bit better today!

and i think winona was treated much better than the non-rich and non-famous would have been.

and . . .

see ya,
nancy
.

Re: this social/support board

JudyS on 12/09/02 at 12:58 (102364)

I think Pauline has a point. While I hardly condone rudeness or cruelty on this very special message board (or anywhere else), I too feel that there is a bit of a double standard here. There seems to be a 'clique' in which some members' insensitivity is overlooked while that of outsiders is sharply criticized. Those insensitive members are defended by other members when brought to task by 'outsiders'. That defense goes something like this; 'So and so is a valuable contributor here so it should be overlooked when so and so's behavior here is less-than-considerate.' It's definately kept me, and some really swell folks, away. I know I've asked this question before; aren't we all valuable contributors?
I'm surprised that no one has noticed that Elliott is just being Elliott. He was challenged and he responded. He doesn't mind shaking things up now and then in his very special style - rude though it can seem. I think he plans it - and I think I've made that observance before so I'll say this once more - well done Elliott. You're way good at getting a reaction. Hope I haven't insulted you by being too simplistic in my simplistic analysis. I think you definately contribute an enormous amount of great philosophy and information here but I guess you sort of invite passion when you get confrontational with the clique. I'm sure I'll get a reaction too but, frankly, this 'clique' thing has been bothering me for a long time because this board was my salvation during some seriously dark days. To me it just doesn't matter who's being insensitive - but rather that it exists here in several degrees and forms. I've see it in generalizing, patronizing, demeaning an issue by joking about it, arrogance, inflexibility and more. We need to look in the mirror before we hassle Elliott too much. He's a valuable contributor here too.

Re: this social/support board

Tammie on 12/09/02 at 13:30 (102370)

I cant disagree in all that you said, you had put it in better words.The only thingI would like to add and I think I did .Social means something and this board has differeant places to talk about just about anything. So therefore if we dont like things we just can type it away and find something more to our likings.

I do not fighting not real or on any sites! I hardly come here, as it sometimes seems like alot of the former group hadly replies and some of the formal group have faded away, I wonder why? I cant believe one person did this! I just hope that we get back to something other than this it seems so juvinal, like my spelling lol, but I keep going on and someday who knows I may become a great speller, if that were my goal! Right now I am trying to get thru some mighty scary things,but mostly worry about the what ifs, those hurt more then the tests.

Re: gotcha Wendyn!

Sheila S. on 12/09/02 at 16:18 (102389)

LOL Wendyn... Perfect sense. You are so right - 'worthy' is in the eyes of the reader.

I've gotten in trouble many times for brevity in a rush, and usually it's for leaving out an extremely important word like 'was' or 'wasn't' and it says totally the opposite of what I intended...

I rather enjoyed the snow discussion. =) Thank goodness they changed our forecast for tomorrow to rain (I think...)

S

Re: segregation?? the Right to Demand

john h on 12/09/02 at 17:17 (102404)

Julie: Do you have the ACLU in England or something similar. They would have probably been all over you and your friend.

Re: segregation?? the Right to Demand

Sharon W on 12/09/02 at 17:40 (102414)

Wendyn,

I agree with you completely on this. Like Elliott, some of the subjects on this board don't interest me. But that ISN'T because I do not consider these subjects 'worthy'. I certainly have no objection to people discussing moon pies (which I don't like) -- I just don't feel like participating.

Being mean or nasty to other posters is a separate issue. Like many others, I believe it is important to express our opinions without being rude.

Sharon

Re: Inconsequential threads

Julie on 12/10/02 at 02:26 (102489)

Sometimes I feel like entering a discussion of a funny, inconsequential, less-than-serious or downright frivolous topic. Sometimes I don't. When I do, I have some fun. When I don't, I just don't.

The moon pie thread didn't grab me (I didn't know what a moon pie was and I guess I didn't want to show my ignorance) so I didn't enter it (though it was a relief to find out, finally, what a moon pie is!) On the other hand, I had fun with the snowflake thread.

Why should I mind, why should anyone mind, that others are enjoying bouncing posts about moon pies or snowflakes or edible Arizonas around in cyberspace?

And it beats me why should anyone mind to the point of actually saying so, dismissively and sometimes jeeringly, making at least some people (not me, I'm with Nancy, I'm not afraid of bullies either) feel abashed or ashamed or maybe less like joining in in future.

There's a word for it - party-pooper.

Re: ACLU

Julie on 12/10/02 at 02:28 (102490)

We have 'Liberty', which is similar.

What do you mean, John? Are you saying you think the ACLU would have upheld the right to tell racist jokes? I doubt it.

Re: Inconsequential threads

Sharon W on 12/10/02 at 07:52 (102513)

Exactly. Well said.

Sharon

Re: Inconsequential threads

pala on 12/10/02 at 08:01 (102519)

i agree again. i would use different words for it tho: mean . i agreed twice. i think we've gone beyond clique to cult. let's see, what color robes should we wear?

Re: Inconsequential threads

Sheila S on 12/10/02 at 10:15 (102540)

GREEEEEEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Inconsequential threads

john h on 12/10/02 at 11:12 (102557)

Good points Julie.

Re: Inconsequential threads

Julie on 12/10/02 at 17:41 (102607)

White.

Re: Inconsequential threads

Nancy N on 12/11/02 at 09:45 (102698)

Purple!

Re: Inconsequential threads

nancy s. on 12/11/02 at 15:58 (102740)

pink with green polka dots, plus an ascot, which can be any color.

Re: ACLU

john h on 12/11/02 at 17:56 (102753)

No Julie. I was just wondering if you had the ACLU in England.