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Posted by carrie h on 1/16/03 at 07:26 (105579)

Could someone that has had eswt for PF walk me through it and tell me what to expect. Thanks

Re: eswt

Dr. Zuckerman on 1/16/03 at 10:13 (105589)

I can walk you thru as a doctor . I can even send you information, have a eswt coordinator talk to you and even talk to patients that have had eswt. We have used this procedure for the past three years with very good results. So e-mail me Dr. Zuckerman @ (email removed)

Re: eswt

dave r on 1/16/03 at 12:40 (105608)

Carrie i have had the procedure done twice. You can email me if you like
(email removed)

Re: eswt

Mar on 1/16/03 at 17:46 (105631)

Carrie --

I've had it twice also -- email (email removed) Mar

Re: eswt

Dr. Z on 1/16/03 at 19:37 (105644)

Hi,

We really need feed back from two people who had no relief from ESWT. I would like to hear about it

Re: eswt

Mar on 1/17/03 at 07:15 (105671)

Are you being serious or sarcastic, Dr Z?? ;-) Mar

Re: eswt

dave r on 1/17/03 at 07:32 (105674)

I think that Mar and I can both testify to this.....

Re: eswt

Dr. Zuckerman on 1/17/03 at 08:48 (105679)

No. When people ask me to give them names of people that had sucessful eswt I always want them to have the great sucess stories and the failures so that they understand that there is failure. Anyone could just talk about sucess.

I realize that yours is a tough cases but we need to know all results.

Re: eswt

Mar on 1/17/03 at 16:48 (105720)

Dr Z --

I really respect your attitude. I wish the doctor who did my bunion surgery had that same attitude and I wouldn;t be in this predicament. As to the ESWT, even though I haven't yet had any relief from it, I would still recommend it. I had no negative results from it and it sure comes with a high success rate. I do not regret having it for one minute, despite the fact that insurance still hasn;t paid. It was worth the try, and who knows, I may have a 3rd treatment and maybe 3 will be a charm. Mar

Re: eswt

georgette on 1/17/03 at 18:10 (105730)

I had an Ossatron Treatment 30 Aug and I have really gotten worse.
I had an MRI Wed. and the Facia is thicker now .
My Dr. suggests a repeat Ossatron Treatment at the end of the month.
Hopefully the Insurance will pay something this time.
It is expensive when you have to pay out of your pocket.
I understand in Europe the cost is a fraction of what the cost is in the USA .

Re: eswt

Pauline on 1/18/03 at 10:54 (105797)

Georgette,
Lately we've seen a few notices about people getting worse after ESWT. Not just following the treatment but for months afterward. I'm wondering why your fascia got thicker and if it's in worse shape what guarantee were you given by your doctor that a second treatment is going to help and not leave you limping for life?

It almost seems like the 'real' case studies are having noticeably different results from the 'test' studies performed in the FDA trials.

I don't remember the studies mentioning patients having continual long term pain. It make one begin to feel a bit uncomfortable to say there is not long term injury with ESWT because as we are seeing this doesn't seem to be true for some patients.

Re: eswt

Dr. Z on 1/18/03 at 11:29 (105801)

Pauline I do remember that after the ossatron FDA approval there was a trend among doctor Ie Dr. Smith ( article in Poditry Today to change the FDA procotol treatment with the ossatron . The FDA ossatron study was at 18 kv . Some doctors were going with 20 plus kv . Dr. Odgen in a letter to all ossatron certiifed doctor pointed out that healthronic
policy at that time was 18kv. So we have to know exactly what the protocol being use is among other things as to why the fascia is thicker. That is very strange.

Re: eswt

georgette on 1/18/03 at 12:43 (105806)

Are you referring to the settings on the machine when you say 20 plus kv?
I am not sure what to do now?
should i have a second procedure?

Re: eswt

Dr. Z on 1/18/03 at 13:41 (105813)

Yes. KV is how much electrical power the generator is producing. This one of the ways that healthronics measured shockwave power when it described it to the FDA. They did all of the testing with 18kv.

Do you get a second treatment?. Very important to determine what is causing your pain. This is the first time I have heard anyone say that the fascia became thicker after the eswt tx.. How was that determined?. Was a pre-mri and or ultrasound done as well as either one done post eswt.
I have done ESWT 2nd treatment on patients that had pain the same level or maybe more and after the 2nd tx they went on to healing

Re: eswt

georgette on 1/21/03 at 14:27 (106158)

originally in August prior to the first eswt I had only an x-ray of the foot.
then the ossatron treatment. That was 30 Aug
Now last week I had my first MRI and they told me the facia was thickened and needed to redo the procedure.
We are waiting to see if my insurace will now pay for this.

Re: eswt

Dr. Zuckerman on 1/21/03 at 14:51 (106162)

This does mean that the ossatron treatment thickened the pf. The mri was taken to rule out a tear, stress fracture etc. IF you meet all of the criteria for eswt such as pain when first getting up in the morning, pain on palpation. I would do the 2nd treatment. Why the first time no response, so could be due to another area or more of another needing treatment. Sometimes the average energy is too little and there no healing response

Re: eswt

Mar on 1/21/03 at 16:28 (106177)

Dr Z --

Did you mean to say 'does NOT mean the ossatron thickened the pf'???? :-) Mar

Re: eswt

Dr. Z on 1/21/03 at 18:12 (106194)

Thanks for catching that one again. Just to make sure. I don't believe the osaatron caused the thickened pf

Re: eswt

georgette on 1/23/03 at 23:27 (106573)

Dr. Z
I am scheduled to have the 2nd eswt Monday
the insurance didn't come answer the request.
The machine in only in Shreveport once a month.
I hate to put it off another month.
Ossatron and the dr have given me a discount on the procedure so i will pay out of pocket again
My question is do you boot your patients?
do you ice or heat
do you have them take anti-inflamatory meds?
Thanks
Georgette

Re: eswt

Dr. Zuckerman on 1/24/03 at 07:44 (106597)

I use ice only if there is alot of pain . Very rare but might occur for a few days. Then its heat heat heat. No bare feet. Depending on what other problems ie ankle I would use an air splint, boot or elastic support but I won't usually dipense a boot for every post eswt patient. NSAID not most of the time . Some rare cases yes. If the patient is taking nsaid for another condition I will not take them off the medication

Re: eswt

Dr. Zuckerman on 1/16/03 at 10:13 (105589)

I can walk you thru as a doctor . I can even send you information, have a eswt coordinator talk to you and even talk to patients that have had eswt. We have used this procedure for the past three years with very good results. So e-mail me Dr. Zuckerman @ (email removed)

Re: eswt

dave r on 1/16/03 at 12:40 (105608)

Carrie i have had the procedure done twice. You can email me if you like
(email removed)

Re: eswt

Mar on 1/16/03 at 17:46 (105631)

Carrie --

I've had it twice also -- email (email removed) Mar

Re: eswt

Dr. Z on 1/16/03 at 19:37 (105644)

Hi,

We really need feed back from two people who had no relief from ESWT. I would like to hear about it

Re: eswt

Mar on 1/17/03 at 07:15 (105671)

Are you being serious or sarcastic, Dr Z?? ;-) Mar

Re: eswt

dave r on 1/17/03 at 07:32 (105674)

I think that Mar and I can both testify to this.....

Re: eswt

Dr. Zuckerman on 1/17/03 at 08:48 (105679)

No. When people ask me to give them names of people that had sucessful eswt I always want them to have the great sucess stories and the failures so that they understand that there is failure. Anyone could just talk about sucess.

I realize that yours is a tough cases but we need to know all results.

Re: eswt

Mar on 1/17/03 at 16:48 (105720)

Dr Z --

I really respect your attitude. I wish the doctor who did my bunion surgery had that same attitude and I wouldn;t be in this predicament. As to the ESWT, even though I haven't yet had any relief from it, I would still recommend it. I had no negative results from it and it sure comes with a high success rate. I do not regret having it for one minute, despite the fact that insurance still hasn;t paid. It was worth the try, and who knows, I may have a 3rd treatment and maybe 3 will be a charm. Mar

Re: eswt

georgette on 1/17/03 at 18:10 (105730)

I had an Ossatron Treatment 30 Aug and I have really gotten worse.
I had an MRI Wed. and the Facia is thicker now .
My Dr. suggests a repeat Ossatron Treatment at the end of the month.
Hopefully the Insurance will pay something this time.
It is expensive when you have to pay out of your pocket.
I understand in Europe the cost is a fraction of what the cost is in the USA .

Re: eswt

Pauline on 1/18/03 at 10:54 (105797)

Georgette,
Lately we've seen a few notices about people getting worse after ESWT. Not just following the treatment but for months afterward. I'm wondering why your fascia got thicker and if it's in worse shape what guarantee were you given by your doctor that a second treatment is going to help and not leave you limping for life?

It almost seems like the 'real' case studies are having noticeably different results from the 'test' studies performed in the FDA trials.

I don't remember the studies mentioning patients having continual long term pain. It make one begin to feel a bit uncomfortable to say there is not long term injury with ESWT because as we are seeing this doesn't seem to be true for some patients.

Re: eswt

Dr. Z on 1/18/03 at 11:29 (105801)

Pauline I do remember that after the ossatron FDA approval there was a trend among doctor Ie Dr. Smith ( article in Poditry Today to change the FDA procotol treatment with the ossatron . The FDA ossatron study was at 18 kv . Some doctors were going with 20 plus kv . Dr. Odgen in a letter to all ossatron certiifed doctor pointed out that healthronic
policy at that time was 18kv. So we have to know exactly what the protocol being use is among other things as to why the fascia is thicker. That is very strange.

Re: eswt

georgette on 1/18/03 at 12:43 (105806)

Are you referring to the settings on the machine when you say 20 plus kv?
I am not sure what to do now?
should i have a second procedure?

Re: eswt

Dr. Z on 1/18/03 at 13:41 (105813)

Yes. KV is how much electrical power the generator is producing. This one of the ways that healthronics measured shockwave power when it described it to the FDA. They did all of the testing with 18kv.

Do you get a second treatment?. Very important to determine what is causing your pain. This is the first time I have heard anyone say that the fascia became thicker after the eswt tx.. How was that determined?. Was a pre-mri and or ultrasound done as well as either one done post eswt.
I have done ESWT 2nd treatment on patients that had pain the same level or maybe more and after the 2nd tx they went on to healing

Re: eswt

georgette on 1/21/03 at 14:27 (106158)

originally in August prior to the first eswt I had only an x-ray of the foot.
then the ossatron treatment. That was 30 Aug
Now last week I had my first MRI and they told me the facia was thickened and needed to redo the procedure.
We are waiting to see if my insurace will now pay for this.

Re: eswt

Dr. Zuckerman on 1/21/03 at 14:51 (106162)

This does mean that the ossatron treatment thickened the pf. The mri was taken to rule out a tear, stress fracture etc. IF you meet all of the criteria for eswt such as pain when first getting up in the morning, pain on palpation. I would do the 2nd treatment. Why the first time no response, so could be due to another area or more of another needing treatment. Sometimes the average energy is too little and there no healing response

Re: eswt

Mar on 1/21/03 at 16:28 (106177)

Dr Z --

Did you mean to say 'does NOT mean the ossatron thickened the pf'???? :-) Mar

Re: eswt

Dr. Z on 1/21/03 at 18:12 (106194)

Thanks for catching that one again. Just to make sure. I don't believe the osaatron caused the thickened pf

Re: eswt

georgette on 1/23/03 at 23:27 (106573)

Dr. Z
I am scheduled to have the 2nd eswt Monday
the insurance didn't come answer the request.
The machine in only in Shreveport once a month.
I hate to put it off another month.
Ossatron and the dr have given me a discount on the procedure so i will pay out of pocket again
My question is do you boot your patients?
do you ice or heat
do you have them take anti-inflamatory meds?
Thanks
Georgette

Re: eswt

Dr. Zuckerman on 1/24/03 at 07:44 (106597)

I use ice only if there is alot of pain . Very rare but might occur for a few days. Then its heat heat heat. No bare feet. Depending on what other problems ie ankle I would use an air splint, boot or elastic support but I won't usually dipense a boot for every post eswt patient. NSAID not most of the time . Some rare cases yes. If the patient is taking nsaid for another condition I will not take them off the medication