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This is strange - no socks seem to help

Posted by IanJ on 1/17/03 at 16:33 (105718)

I have PF in both my feet in the arches for about 4 months now. Been going to PT for 3 weeks.

I have PowerStep inserts in my New Balance shoes and have two pairs. One pair for indoors, one for outdoors.

I found that taping my feet really helped me and got the taping method down well but lately that's been hurting my PF symptoms (not the skin).

Here's the strange part. All along I noticed that wearing my shoes indoors WITHOUT socks seems very comfortable. I would do this for short periods early in the morning or after a shower because it's faster than puting on the socks too.

Since the taping was bothering me I tried walking to work without tape but with socks. Painful day. The next day I tried the same WITHOUT socks and I was much better. I have been doing this all week now and feel my feet are healing. I certainly think the Physical Therapy and contrast bathing is really helping but I'm quite surprised about the sock thing.

All I can think is that having the extra layer of material between me and the PowerStep inserts was causing extra friction and movement.

Obviously my feet are now a bit smellier and I have to wash them more. Also my coworkers have noticed my lack of socks and think that is weird.

Any thoughts, similar experiences?

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Marty on 1/17/03 at 17:46 (105725)

Hmmmmm, you know I have mentioned this before and no else said anything about this but I to can not ware socks. But my TTS is much worse the my PF. I have been going without socks now for about 4 years and my coworkers are all use to it now. LOL Can't say I am, sometimes when my feet get cold or for some unknown reason I have to put them back on. But doesn't take long and off they come. For me if I leave them on the pain doesn't increase just the BURNING. I to wear NB's, I have 3 pair, one for outside, one for inside and one that I'm breaking in. I break them in indoors then move them to my outside pair. I have hard orthodics that my current pod made but I can not ware them and I do believe they made my TTS much worse. I wear a soft pair that I got from my second Pod. I only have one pair of these and need to get 2 more pair so I don't have to take them out of my inside pair and put into my outside pair. They look like a OTC product but they charge me 20 bucks for them. I want to try and find them online and order them for probably 10 bucks. Well not sure about that, maybe he gets a price break on them.

Marty

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

BrianJ on 1/17/03 at 18:00 (105727)

Ian --

I have consistently noticed the same phenomenon. A top rehabilitative medicine doctor I know says that consistently rubbing your feet on a knobby rubber mat, or a shallow pan filled with rice grains, can yield subtle but effective changes in how sensation is perceived in the plantar region.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

D.Thomas on 1/17/03 at 18:07 (105729)

Ian,

I have been without socks going on a year now. I can't stand them with PF, my feet are too sensitive. Doesn't surprise me.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Carole C in NOLA on 1/17/03 at 18:17 (105731)

For me, socks were a big help with PF. I did much better with my Birkenstocks when I wore socks with them than when I didn't.

I think it's either a case of 'different strokes for different folks', or else maybe it's another example of how changing footwear every now and then seems to help in PF. Usually people think of changing shoes, but I suppose changing to no socks or socks could make a difference too.

Carole C

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Marty on 1/17/03 at 18:48 (105737)

Brian - Are you saying this because of IanJ statement about the friction?

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

nancy s. on 1/17/03 at 18:57 (105739)

a lot of people think a lot of things pf people do are weird. we don't care, right? can't afford to care!

ian, a month ago i would've passed this post by (having nothing to add and being a person who really loves socks; i am the imelda marcos of socks). BUT: i have found the same thing to be true when wearing my new l.l. bean snow walker boots. i started throwing them on without socks while still in my bathrobe to cross the driveway and turn on the heat in my shop so it's warm before i open.

they felt good that way, to my surprise, and i've discovered i can wear the boots for a longer time without socks than with. i don't have any idea why this should be true. my feet are better but not perfect, and have not been able to tolerate anything except birkenstocks for three years. kathy g clued me in to these boots, and i can wear them longer than any other boot or enclosed shoe i've tried. but without socks, they feel the best.

with birks i still like socks. especially when it's 0 degrees outside, heh heh.

i don't think this question has ever been discussed here before except in regard to style! very interesting that you noticed this, and that several people are reporting similar experiences.

i've been reading your posts, ian, and it sounds like pt is going really well -- i'm very happy for you. also, the contrast bathing sounds good. a belated thank you for your detailed explanation of it.

nancy
.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Marty on 1/17/03 at 19:12 (105743)

i got to throw my 2 cents in here and say i believe in to be nerve related. less aggravation

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Pauline on 1/17/03 at 21:01 (105751)

I notice that when I wear any type of 'Trouser Sock' with a pattern even the slightest one it causes me foot pain no matter what type of shoe I'm wearing.

Trouser Socks are usually knit of a fine grade material such as silk,
cashmere, polyester, or nylon some a blend of these materials. Surely they are soft enough and the patterns very slight, but my feet don't like them. I must stick to a plain soft fine knit sock.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

IanJ on 1/18/03 at 00:17 (105768)

I am (was) using very soft cotton socks with virtually no pattern but I suspect any material causes extra friction and movement that my PF doesn't like. Stinky feet for me!

Nothing gets between me and my PowerSteps.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

IanJ on 1/18/03 at 00:19 (105769)

Thanks Nancy. I am relieved to hear that others have noticed this too as I thought I was a bit crazy. My Physical Therapist did listen to me and thought my theory could be correct. He advised me to try thinner socks but I think I'll just go stinky for awhile.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

sandy h on 1/18/03 at 03:08 (105775)

It could be that skin on material gives better traction than material on material and because your feet are moving about less it avoids the slipping that can hurt PF. I've found bare feet to be a help in the past and wear thin socks but can't say I had the courage to go to work without socks yet!
1

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Marty on 1/18/03 at 09:34 (105782)

I still remember the day the General manager came in my office to find me there at my desk bare foot. LOL …Yep no socks and no shoes, shoes for me make my feet hurt/burn worse then the socks do. So I'm bare foot about 6 of the 8 hours I'm at work. Believe me it was have to break my pride down to a point that I'm now fairly comfortable.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

nancy s. on 1/18/03 at 10:30 (105791)

sandy, that theory makes a lot of sense to me. all throughout pf etc., anything that had my foot moving in a shoe, even ever so slightly, caused me pain. maybe socks do allow an oh-so-subtle movement; i guess they must. ? this is all very interesting to me. i've been guessing that i have very little fat pad left on my heels and that's why i can't wear anything except birks most of the time -- but the reason might instead be what you've described. i'm going to try my athletic shoes (which i can wear for taking a walk so long as i walk at a brisk pace) without socks, as soon as the temp goes above 50 degrees. that means i'll probably be reporting back in june! actually, i may forgo my birks for a day and try them inside and see what happens.

nancy
.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Marty on 1/18/03 at 10:37 (105793)

Sandy, been thinking and it makes sence to me. I think your on to somthing.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Suzanne D on 1/18/03 at 16:25 (105828)

I'm like you, Carole. Socks always seemed to ease the pain, and the thicker the better. I have a pair that feels kind of 'gritty' for lack of a better way to explain it. They always felt the best when my feet felt the worst. I would wear them with my Birk sandals, and it almost felt as if my feet were being massaged when I walked.

But if no socks help, then I say 'Go for it!' Just don't get too chilled outside and catch cold! (I think I'm turning into my mother who always had a thing about my sister and I wearing socks around the house if it was at all cool outdoors.) :-)

Take care,
Suzanne :-)

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

john h on 1/19/03 at 15:02 (105942)

Nancy: those cat socks should be top of the line. I have a drawer full of thorlos wich is all I wear. my thoughts are also the thicker the better.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Marty on 1/19/03 at 17:28 (105955)

Hmmmm, That's weird the thinner the better for me.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Mar on 1/19/03 at 17:58 (105962)

Very intersting -- in the house I wear Clark clogs -- much more comfortable without socks. I never thought to try my sneakers with orthotics without socks. Now it's so cold, I can;t imagine it. But maybe I;ll try it around the house. Mar

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Marty on 1/19/03 at 18:51 (105971)

I just don't see how it's possible to ware shoe or sock with TTS. But were all different. I put my orthodics under my insoles. Tried it the other way but made feet sweet to much.

Marty

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

john h on 1/20/03 at 09:45 (106019)

I did not know there was such a thing as silk socks. Are they slick or absorbent?

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Carole C in NOLA on 1/20/03 at 09:57 (106020)

John, I know you would do nearly anything to get rid of your PF, but I cannot imagine a rough tough war hero like you wearing silk socks!!

I need to become more broad-minded. :)

Carole C

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

IanJ on 1/20/03 at 21:51 (106091)

I'd say they're slick. They don't hold water but breath well. Contrary to what Carole thinks, real men do wear silk. You can buy them at places like REI and some outdoor stores. Outdoors people wear them under wool socks so that perspiration moves from that layer to the wool sock and the foot stays dry in cold weather.

In Canada they sell them at Mountain Equipment Co-op (MEC).

I haven't tried them for PF but now I might. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

IanJ on 1/20/03 at 21:56 (106093)

http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=5862&parent_category_rn=4501316

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

nancy s. on 1/20/03 at 22:04 (106094)

those look nice, ian, though i'm a little concerned that the elastic tops look tight, which could be a problem for people with swelling. i hope you get some and give us a full report!
nancy
.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Carole C in NOLA on 1/20/03 at 22:27 (106096)

This is one of those mysteries surrounding the opposite sex. I had no idea that men wear silk (well, some do here in New Orleans down on Bourbon St., but I had no idea that men in general would wear silk). That's very interesting.

They do sound quite comfortable. Silk feels very nice against the skin.

Carole C

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

john h on 1/22/03 at 11:52 (106305)

Carole I think the only silk items I have worn is a silk tie.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Carole C in NOLA on 1/22/03 at 12:41 (106319)

That's sort of what I thought. Good! I don't have to drop my preconceptions. LOL

Carole C

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Marty on 1/17/03 at 17:46 (105725)

Hmmmmm, you know I have mentioned this before and no else said anything about this but I to can not ware socks. But my TTS is much worse the my PF. I have been going without socks now for about 4 years and my coworkers are all use to it now. LOL Can't say I am, sometimes when my feet get cold or for some unknown reason I have to put them back on. But doesn't take long and off they come. For me if I leave them on the pain doesn't increase just the BURNING. I to wear NB's, I have 3 pair, one for outside, one for inside and one that I'm breaking in. I break them in indoors then move them to my outside pair. I have hard orthodics that my current pod made but I can not ware them and I do believe they made my TTS much worse. I wear a soft pair that I got from my second Pod. I only have one pair of these and need to get 2 more pair so I don't have to take them out of my inside pair and put into my outside pair. They look like a OTC product but they charge me 20 bucks for them. I want to try and find them online and order them for probably 10 bucks. Well not sure about that, maybe he gets a price break on them.

Marty

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

BrianJ on 1/17/03 at 18:00 (105727)

Ian --

I have consistently noticed the same phenomenon. A top rehabilitative medicine doctor I know says that consistently rubbing your feet on a knobby rubber mat, or a shallow pan filled with rice grains, can yield subtle but effective changes in how sensation is perceived in the plantar region.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

D.Thomas on 1/17/03 at 18:07 (105729)

Ian,

I have been without socks going on a year now. I can't stand them with PF, my feet are too sensitive. Doesn't surprise me.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Carole C in NOLA on 1/17/03 at 18:17 (105731)

For me, socks were a big help with PF. I did much better with my Birkenstocks when I wore socks with them than when I didn't.

I think it's either a case of 'different strokes for different folks', or else maybe it's another example of how changing footwear every now and then seems to help in PF. Usually people think of changing shoes, but I suppose changing to no socks or socks could make a difference too.

Carole C

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Marty on 1/17/03 at 18:48 (105737)

Brian - Are you saying this because of IanJ statement about the friction?

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

nancy s. on 1/17/03 at 18:57 (105739)

a lot of people think a lot of things pf people do are weird. we don't care, right? can't afford to care!

ian, a month ago i would've passed this post by (having nothing to add and being a person who really loves socks; i am the imelda marcos of socks). BUT: i have found the same thing to be true when wearing my new l.l. bean snow walker boots. i started throwing them on without socks while still in my bathrobe to cross the driveway and turn on the heat in my shop so it's warm before i open.

they felt good that way, to my surprise, and i've discovered i can wear the boots for a longer time without socks than with. i don't have any idea why this should be true. my feet are better but not perfect, and have not been able to tolerate anything except birkenstocks for three years. kathy g clued me in to these boots, and i can wear them longer than any other boot or enclosed shoe i've tried. but without socks, they feel the best.

with birks i still like socks. especially when it's 0 degrees outside, heh heh.

i don't think this question has ever been discussed here before except in regard to style! very interesting that you noticed this, and that several people are reporting similar experiences.

i've been reading your posts, ian, and it sounds like pt is going really well -- i'm very happy for you. also, the contrast bathing sounds good. a belated thank you for your detailed explanation of it.

nancy
.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Marty on 1/17/03 at 19:12 (105743)

i got to throw my 2 cents in here and say i believe in to be nerve related. less aggravation

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Pauline on 1/17/03 at 21:01 (105751)

I notice that when I wear any type of 'Trouser Sock' with a pattern even the slightest one it causes me foot pain no matter what type of shoe I'm wearing.

Trouser Socks are usually knit of a fine grade material such as silk,
cashmere, polyester, or nylon some a blend of these materials. Surely they are soft enough and the patterns very slight, but my feet don't like them. I must stick to a plain soft fine knit sock.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

IanJ on 1/18/03 at 00:17 (105768)

I am (was) using very soft cotton socks with virtually no pattern but I suspect any material causes extra friction and movement that my PF doesn't like. Stinky feet for me!

Nothing gets between me and my PowerSteps.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

IanJ on 1/18/03 at 00:19 (105769)

Thanks Nancy. I am relieved to hear that others have noticed this too as I thought I was a bit crazy. My Physical Therapist did listen to me and thought my theory could be correct. He advised me to try thinner socks but I think I'll just go stinky for awhile.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

sandy h on 1/18/03 at 03:08 (105775)

It could be that skin on material gives better traction than material on material and because your feet are moving about less it avoids the slipping that can hurt PF. I've found bare feet to be a help in the past and wear thin socks but can't say I had the courage to go to work without socks yet!
1

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Marty on 1/18/03 at 09:34 (105782)

I still remember the day the General manager came in my office to find me there at my desk bare foot. LOL …Yep no socks and no shoes, shoes for me make my feet hurt/burn worse then the socks do. So I'm bare foot about 6 of the 8 hours I'm at work. Believe me it was have to break my pride down to a point that I'm now fairly comfortable.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

nancy s. on 1/18/03 at 10:30 (105791)

sandy, that theory makes a lot of sense to me. all throughout pf etc., anything that had my foot moving in a shoe, even ever so slightly, caused me pain. maybe socks do allow an oh-so-subtle movement; i guess they must. ? this is all very interesting to me. i've been guessing that i have very little fat pad left on my heels and that's why i can't wear anything except birks most of the time -- but the reason might instead be what you've described. i'm going to try my athletic shoes (which i can wear for taking a walk so long as i walk at a brisk pace) without socks, as soon as the temp goes above 50 degrees. that means i'll probably be reporting back in june! actually, i may forgo my birks for a day and try them inside and see what happens.

nancy
.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Marty on 1/18/03 at 10:37 (105793)

Sandy, been thinking and it makes sence to me. I think your on to somthing.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Suzanne D on 1/18/03 at 16:25 (105828)

I'm like you, Carole. Socks always seemed to ease the pain, and the thicker the better. I have a pair that feels kind of 'gritty' for lack of a better way to explain it. They always felt the best when my feet felt the worst. I would wear them with my Birk sandals, and it almost felt as if my feet were being massaged when I walked.

But if no socks help, then I say 'Go for it!' Just don't get too chilled outside and catch cold! (I think I'm turning into my mother who always had a thing about my sister and I wearing socks around the house if it was at all cool outdoors.) :-)

Take care,
Suzanne :-)

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

john h on 1/19/03 at 15:02 (105942)

Nancy: those cat socks should be top of the line. I have a drawer full of thorlos wich is all I wear. my thoughts are also the thicker the better.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Marty on 1/19/03 at 17:28 (105955)

Hmmmm, That's weird the thinner the better for me.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Mar on 1/19/03 at 17:58 (105962)

Very intersting -- in the house I wear Clark clogs -- much more comfortable without socks. I never thought to try my sneakers with orthotics without socks. Now it's so cold, I can;t imagine it. But maybe I;ll try it around the house. Mar

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Marty on 1/19/03 at 18:51 (105971)

I just don't see how it's possible to ware shoe or sock with TTS. But were all different. I put my orthodics under my insoles. Tried it the other way but made feet sweet to much.

Marty

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

john h on 1/20/03 at 09:45 (106019)

I did not know there was such a thing as silk socks. Are they slick or absorbent?

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Carole C in NOLA on 1/20/03 at 09:57 (106020)

John, I know you would do nearly anything to get rid of your PF, but I cannot imagine a rough tough war hero like you wearing silk socks!!

I need to become more broad-minded. :)

Carole C

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

IanJ on 1/20/03 at 21:51 (106091)

I'd say they're slick. They don't hold water but breath well. Contrary to what Carole thinks, real men do wear silk. You can buy them at places like REI and some outdoor stores. Outdoors people wear them under wool socks so that perspiration moves from that layer to the wool sock and the foot stays dry in cold weather.

In Canada they sell them at Mountain Equipment Co-op (MEC).

I haven't tried them for PF but now I might. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

IanJ on 1/20/03 at 21:56 (106093)

http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=5862&parent_category_rn=4501316

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

nancy s. on 1/20/03 at 22:04 (106094)

those look nice, ian, though i'm a little concerned that the elastic tops look tight, which could be a problem for people with swelling. i hope you get some and give us a full report!
nancy
.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Carole C in NOLA on 1/20/03 at 22:27 (106096)

This is one of those mysteries surrounding the opposite sex. I had no idea that men wear silk (well, some do here in New Orleans down on Bourbon St., but I had no idea that men in general would wear silk). That's very interesting.

They do sound quite comfortable. Silk feels very nice against the skin.

Carole C

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

john h on 1/22/03 at 11:52 (106305)

Carole I think the only silk items I have worn is a silk tie.

Re: This is strange - no socks seem to help

Carole C in NOLA on 1/22/03 at 12:41 (106319)

That's sort of what I thought. Good! I don't have to drop my preconceptions. LOL

Carole C