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Good Feet Store

Posted by Richard, C.Ped on 1/18/03 at 16:01 (105826)

I had a booth at a local event that is geared towards the elderly. This one lady in her 80's came up along with her daughter to talk to me about what I do. The said that they just came from the local Good Feet Store. I asked to see what they were told she needed. When they took this piece of crap out of her shoe, I asked how much she paid for it. She said $250.00. I could not believe what I was holding.

The main thing that makes me so angry is that this lady is on Medicare. She does NOT have $250 to waste on crap like that. Medicare would pay if I made her an orthotic. The GFS does not take insurance. In my opinion, I think she was royally screwed.

I just do not understand how they can get away with what they do. I really hope that there will be some kind of law one day that you can not dispense orthotic devices without proper certification and even a specific license. On the other hand, that may not mean anything at all with they type of junk some people will sell you just to make a buck.

Sorry for the rant. I am just VERY P/Od
Richard

Re: Good Feet Store

Suzanne D on 1/18/03 at 16:32 (105829)

I'm glad you care enough about what you do and also about others to be upset by this! After I was diagnosed with PF but before I found this site, a friend took me to one of the Goodfeet Stores. She had bought a pair of orthotics there for $250. The saleslady explained the different models by saying that this one 'worked one muscle', this one, two, and of course the most expensive one worked four, I think. That just didn't make sense to me, and it all seemed so slick with the prepared speech and all. I wondered if anyone ever put their feet on the 'carbon paper' and were told that they only needed the cheapest device which 'worked one muscle'. I thanked her and my friend but didn't buy anything. I was tempted to as my feet hurt so much, but it just didn't all seem to add up. I am sorry for anyone who gets 'ripped off' by others who take advantage of their pain. It seems to me that there is less general knowledge out there about foot ailments than almost any other medical problem. I have been educated so much on this site.

Take care. Thanks for what you do to help others!
Suzanne :-)

Re: Good Feet Store

Carole C in NOLA on 1/18/03 at 19:35 (105845)

Richard, I can't help but agree from what I've heard about the Good Feet Store. I've never been there.

But my C.Ped spent literally HOURS with me making my custom orthotics, watching me walk, adjusting them until they were just right, and all the while explaining about them and my feet and all the conservative treatments in detail, and answering questions. She did this (focused her time and energy exclusively on my crummy feet for hours) out of the goodness of her heart even though I'm not anyone special, just another person sitting in her store crying over my poor useless, painful feet.

The day I hear about the Good Feet store doing something like that, I'll sure be surprised. I was also encouraged to return for free adjustments any time. I never needed any, though.

All that, and it was cheaper than what that old lady paid the Good Feet store.

My only gripe about C.Peds is that they require a prescription. I wish people could just drop in.

Carole C

Re: Good Feet Store

Michael J on 1/19/03 at 01:08 (105884)

I own 2 Good Feet stores, and I would invite anyone on this thread to be a fly on the wall in my stores or any Good Feet Store for that matter and see and listen first hand the types of results and benefits a majority of our customers receive from our products. We have a sophisticated follow-up system to each customer and approximately 85% of our customers are satisfied with their purchase and are recieving varying degrees of benefit for their needs. About 10% of the time we have to re-fit or re-size a product in order to make our customers comfortable wearing the a given product..once we do that with these customers about 95% of them are satisfied. About 5% of our customers do not get any benefit from wearing our products...I'll put this type of satisfaction up against not only most reputable business's but many in the medical field as well. In regards to the elderly person above, our people are trained to introduce the product(s) that will most likely benefit that persons needs based on the feedback we receive from are customers as well as their first hand knowledge. If this women would benefit the most from our $250.00 product that would be the only reason the person would have sold it to her. We have cheaper products but..our products are sold on benefit..not based on price. In our stores we won't sell a product if we feel it wont give that person any benefit.

Regards

Re: Good Feet Store

Carole C in NOLA on 1/19/03 at 07:56 (105893)

Michael,

Do you only hire certified pedorthists to do this? Or do you just hire people off the street and give them some sort of in-house training? How long is the in-house training? Yesrs? Months? or just weeks?

How do you counter numerous reports of employees at Good Feet stores who aren't certified and don't even know the basics about how feet work?

Carole C

Re: Good Feet Store

wendyn on 1/19/03 at 08:49 (105903)

Michael - just a thought...any idea what the satisfaction rate is for people who by an off the shelf orthotic for $30?

Re: Good Feet Store

Richard, C.Ped on 1/19/03 at 19:52 (105981)

Michael,
I have been in the local GFS and was apalled at what I saw and heard. I am very dissapointed that you think your product is actually worth $250. I am upset by a couple of things. One, I strongly believe that the product sold to the individual I spoke about was not for her. I had her sit down and with her ankle in sub-talor neutral, I placed the 'orthosis' (a term I use very loosly) on her foot. It did not even come close to touching her medial as well as her lateral arches.

Two, I honestly have to say that what the GFS as well as other 'foot stores' are doing is diagnosing a problem then providing what you think the customer needs. In my book, and everything that I have learned, I strongly believe that is illegal. I have, on more than I can remember, have either fixed or had to totally re-do what others have supplied due to an improper device.

What really irritates me the most is the improper care that many diabetic receive. That in itself is a whole other story.

It really breaks my heart to see that people are being taken advantage of in situations such as this. I do not know what credentials you have, but the device sold to this lady was lacking in many areas.
Richard

Re: Good Feet Store

Michael J on 1/19/03 at 23:31 (105999)

You do not need to be a certified pedorthist to recommend an arch support that you see results in day after day, no more than you do to walk into a drug store and purchase and over the counter support or cushion, which in our expierience seems to be the case with many podiatrists. I can only speak for my employees who have a wealth of knowledge when it comes to the foot and its basic functions but more importantly have the expierience of seeing results over and over. We offer no medical advise and offer knowledge that is readily available to anyone via many avenues these days..ie internet etc...

Regards

Re: Good Feet Store

Michael J on 1/19/03 at 23:41 (106000)

I have no idea, but Im sure there are benefits for alot of people depending on what there trying to get help with. It seems that cost is an issue for those on here and I'm not sure why that is? We manufacture are own products right here in the US, we spend probably a minimum of 1/2 to 1 hour with each customer, we follow up to make sure they are getting some benefit, we show them the benefits first hand, we offer a satisfaction guarantee, and all our products except for 1 are guaranteed to last a lifetime..and most importantly OUR PRODUCTS WORK to varying degrees most of the time!!! In these times I don't see where, considering the above, spending between $100 and $200 should be at issue. I guess it depends on what kind of price tag an individual can put on making their feet and entire body feel better....I know if I was a consumer and had some of the issues we see and HELP..I couldnt put a price tag on that, but everyone is different.

Regards

Re: Good Feet Store

Michael J on 1/19/03 at 23:48 (106001)

Might possibly not have been the right product for this women I have no idea, thats why we have a satisfaction guarantee and in my stores we will try 10 supports if thats what it takes to help a person...(TELL ME HOW MANY STORES or medical people will do that?).just as when a podiatrist molds a support for someone and it does them no good(in most of these cases the support is sitting in there closet someplace..of course since their insurance company paid for most of it THEY DONT CARE)...I can't tell you how many times a day I hear that. I have nothing against a molded support and I have actually recieved some benefit from them personally early in my life...but come on my friend in most cases we are benefiting people..isn't that what is should be about???

Re: Good Feet Store

wendyn on 1/20/03 at 07:13 (106010)

Thanks Michael - now please stick with me on this for a minute longer (I really don't know much about Good Feet Stores at all)

$100 or $200 is not too much to spend, if what you're getting is wort that. Now - what I'm wondering, is if your orthotics actually correct anything - and are they better than what someone can get for $30 - and if so - why?

In my case, I have (this is not an exhaustive list) - a forefoot varus, tibial tortion, dorsal bunsion, pes planus, tartsal tunnel syndrome and RSD.

Would someone in your stores know how to help with these conditions, and would they be trained to recognize them?

What type of training do they receive in foot problems, and what do they do to help with them?

(remember I don't know anything about them - other than some pretty negative posts by people here over the last 4 years)

Re: Good Feet Store

D.Thomas on 1/20/03 at 09:39 (106017)

Michael,

Huge difference here. Most of the orthotics that are used by C.Peds, Podiatrists, and Orthos are based on methods and designs that have been tested with experimental designs and written in type A peer reviewed journals.

Re: Good Feet Store

Michael J on 1/20/03 at 10:03 (106021)

If someone came in looking for medical advise, in this case telling them all of those problems and specifically trying to 'cure' them, and while it could very well be that you might benefit from wearing some of our products....they would not help you. Our policy which is stated everywhere,is that anyone having serious foot problems should see a doctor. However if one of my people has seen some benefit from someone on this problems prior, what is wrong with passing that information along and then leaving it up to the person to see if they want to try them or not? Also, even if the person gets only minimal benefit foot wise from wearing them, there is alot of benefit beyond the foot in wearing a proper arch support.

The answer is we do not diagnoise and prescribe treatment to anyone. Again, any info we give out is only based on what we hear and see from our customers as well as a wealth of common knowledge that is out there to anyone.

Re: Good Feet Store

Michael J on 1/20/03 at 10:09 (106022)

No difference at all. We have a team of Podiatrists, C.Peds and Orthos that design products. I do not know about the 'type A peer journals. And besides this....what is the real difference if they are helping people??? I'm at a lose to what the issue is here......We don't force anyone to spend there $ with us..but if they choose to there is a good chance they'll get some benefit......isn't that the American way?

Re: Good Feet Store

Carole C in NOLA on 1/20/03 at 10:16 (106023)

Michael, you said, 'Our policy which is stated everywhere,is that anyone having serious foot problems should see a doctor.'

So you do not consider plantar fasciitis to be a serious foot problem?

Carole C

Re: Good Feet Store

Michael J on 1/20/03 at 10:52 (106026)

I absolutley do consider that a serious problem..having had it. I can tell you that if there is one 'problem' that we hear about in our stores that without a doubt a majority of our people get some benefit from it's PF. Again, if a person wants me to tell them from a medical standpoint it will cure their specific problem(PF) and this is what they need to hear to satsify them before they'll spend a penny..they need to go somewhere else.but if they want an abundance of information fedback from countless numbers of people who have told us it has helped them, then I suggest they try the product. Also, if they want to hide behind the financial fact that maybe they won't be out of pocket for any dollars because their insurance company is stuck with the bill in other cases, well then I suggest they really dont want to help their health problem and would only consider it if they dont have to spend any $...to me that is sad. Now if a person can not afford to spend what we charge for our products, then of course they should find something that hopefully benefits them based on their financial situation...this I have no problem with.

Re: Good Feet Store

D.Thomas on 1/20/03 at 11:08 (106027)

Michael,

I do have two questions for you if you don't mind to answer.

1) How many different types of orthotics do you carry? For example, What type of orthotic would you recommend a person with cavus feet? Do you use orthtoics that push up in the arch to support for cavus feet? Do you guys use the same orthotic for flat feet as you would cavus feet? Meaning do you put any corrections into the orthotic for different cases?

2) Don't you mass produce the orthotics? When most companies mass produce a product, there is a huge cost savings. But, your orthotics cost the same as ones that are custom made. This one confuses me. Any justification?

Re: Good Feet Store

Carole C in NOLA on 1/20/03 at 11:27 (106028)

Michael, you stated, 'Our policy which is stated everywhere,is that anyone having serious foot problems should see a doctor.'

You then stated about PF, 'I absolutley do consider that a serious problem' and

'but if they want an abundance of information fedback from countless numbers of people [with PF] who have told us it has helped them, then I suggest they try the product'

Being helped by a product doesn't mean a whole lot, since there are degrees of being helped; before seeing my doctor I was 'helped' by gel heel pads from Wal-Mart but if I relied on them only, I believe I'd be unable to walk at all right now. (By the way, folks, don't waste your money on gel heel pads from Wal-Mart either.)

To be blunt, no reputable doctor is going to diagnose PF and then send his patients to your stores to get fitted by untrained non-professionals. It just isn't going to happen. My doctor sent me with a prescription to a trained C.Ped with a great reputation in the local community (and this C.Ped is located just a few blocks from a Good Feet store).

So, I had what you consider to be a serious problem, PF, and I followed the advice posted in your store... to see a doctor. Of course the result is that the doctor told me to go to a particular C.Ped with an excellent reputation and track record, not to your store. My very severe case of PF seems to be completely healed now.

Considering what you have posted in this thread, I think you should amend those signs (that you say are posted everywhere in your store). They should say,

'Anyone having serious foot problems like plantar fasciitis should see a doctor, so if you have PF, get out of here and get to your doctor, pronto!'

Carole C

Re: PS

Carole C in NOLA on 1/20/03 at 11:54 (106033)

P.S.

Michael, maybe I focused overly on the negative, and I want to also point out some positive things about the Good Feet Stores.

I *DO* think that your stores have a valuable function in providing over the counter solutions to people who don't have PF or other serious conditions, but just want an expensive and comfortable insert to put in their every day shoes.

For example, someone with a retail sales job in a department store who has to stand all day on their feet, but who doesn't have PF or other serious problems, might really, really benefit from your product. I'm not an accountant but I suspect that he/she could probably deduct it from their taxes as a job related expense, too.

Carole C

Re: Good Feet Store

Michael J on 1/20/03 at 12:39 (106037)

Quite frankly, I'm not what your point is here....You got help in your way and in other case's we might be the ones to help you or someone else. This topic should probably be laid to rest here.

Re: PS

Michael J on 1/20/03 at 12:40 (106038)

I think thats well stated and fair..

Re: Good Feet Store

wendyn on 1/20/03 at 17:16 (106064)

I'm still confused Michael. If I didn't know I had all those things, and I only knew I had sore feet...how would the staff at these stores take care of me if they don't diagnose and they don't treat. I know what I have because I've seen a doctor...but what if I just walked (or hobbled) by one of your stores instead?

I'm not trying to be a pain, but I still don't understand what type of training your staff have and what exactly it is that they (or the orthotics) do that warrants a price tage of $200 instead of $20.

I will look through the thread again, but I don't recall seeing the training issue ever answered.

Re: Good Feet Store

Michael J on 1/20/03 at 18:06 (106072)

While no one at our stores is qualified to speak in the medical terms you are throwing out, it's my opinion that based on what you have stated your doctor said, you are saying that your doctor has said 'you have pressure on the fore foot which is resulting in bunions due to a flat or flatter foot and improper alignment in the foot'...I may not be exaxctely correct here but fairly close....and to answer your question...I do know how our products may or may not help this situation as we have many many people come in complaining of the same thing in much more lay terms!!!

I don't really feel it's necessary to address the cost issue becuase quite frankly in our stores cost really isn't an issue for most of our customers..If it is for you I respect that and would only say that probably our stores are not somewhere you should search out for relief. And in fact you may find either some or possibly the same amount of benefit in other supports as their are many out there. All I know is what I see in our stores and our customers and that is all I care about.

Re: Good Feet Store

Carole C in NOLA on 1/20/03 at 19:10 (106078)

Oh, my. I won't say a word.

Re: Good Feet Store

Michael J on 1/20/03 at 20:32 (106084)

1. Our original products (Alznner/Barefoot) are molded to a specific shape and support structure which based on Dr. Alznners study of I believe around 20,000 feet or so appears to be the most benefical position the foot can be in to help align all the bones. Our goal is to put the foot in the most neutral alignment. benefits and sensations will certainly vary depending on their arch structure, prior problems, activites etc..but there is alot benefit in having your foot aligned better beyond your feet as well..I'm sure most recognize this on this board. I would say that the varying types of arch's(ie flat foot vs pes cavus) seem to be directly correlated to the amount of benefit people get. sometimes its mediocore in a flat foot and miraculous in a pes cavus or vice verse...but i do know that there usually is some benefit either way in most situations. As i stated before, occasionally we get no benefit foot wise either way as well but there is still benefit in wearing arch supports(not just ours) biomechaniclly in my opinion..I think common sense tells us that.

2. Our products range from $59 to $229 and as I have stated before, considering what we do and how much we seem to be helping people, I personally don't have an problem with that... I mean the last pair frames for my prescription glasses I purchased were $350 for a very tiny piece of metal. The cost in our products certainly isnt in the material, but in the enginering, the machinery, and basic costs associated with running a professional business. There is also a lot of $ spent on research and development by our company.

Thanks

Re: Good Feet Store

wendyn on 1/20/03 at 23:15 (106103)

Hmmm - well - it's been an interesting - and enlightening discussion Michael - and I do appreciate the time you've taken to try to help me understand.

I guess the bottom line (from where I see it) is - you sell prefabricated orthotic devices that seem to help some people.

Your staff don't have any type of training in foot anatomoy or conditions whatsoever (or it's evidently not sufficient to worth mentioning here)

(unless I've missed it, and considering how tired I am - that's entirely possible).

If I was to walk into one of your stores, your staff would not only be unable to help me - they would not be able to understand the medical terminology of (some) relatively common foot problems. Pes planus and forefoot varus should be part of the vocabulary of anyone dealing with feet. (IMNSHO). If I talked to an orthotic person who didn't know what that was - I would probably be have to be picked up off the floor (where I would have melted in a puddle of disbelief).

Your orthotics may be beneficial to someone with mild foot pain from over use - although I'm not sure how your staff would recognize the difference between something like a simple case of PF from over exertion - and a much more serious case of TTS (considering they don't know what that is) - or something like a progressive post tib tendon problem.

I realize that they don't claim to be treating or diagnosing - but I'm wondering how they know when they are dealing with something that is beyond their ability (do they ever send customers to doctors instead of selling them an orthotic?)

I'm glad that your orthotics work for some people - but I seem to have ended up with more questions than answers (perhaps I should not have started in the first place!!!)

Re: Good Feet Store

wendyn on 1/20/03 at 23:17 (106104)

ps - no Michael - your not close on the terminology translation, and no - you don't have a lot of people walking in each day describing the same things in layman's terms. In order to understand that - you would have to understand what those medical terms mean.

I am too tired to explain them tonight.

Maybe tomorrow.

Re: Good Feet Store

Michael J on 1/21/03 at 00:04 (106105)

Honestly....I'm not 100% sure what your concern is....I would think you should just say that our stores are helping alot of people and be thankful for that, albiet our products are not for everyone......because it seems you really dont have a grip with our company..just questions. I truly believe if you were involved with our company you would feel the same way I do. We do no harm to anyone and only help people..that has to be a good thing in todays world.

Good luck to you
ps
realize that they don't claim to be treating or diagnosing - but I'm wondering how they know when they are dealing with something that is beyond their ability (do they ever send customers to doctors instead of selling them an orthotic?)

this is absolutely the case

Re: Good Feet Store

Richard, C.Ped on 1/21/03 at 08:00 (106113)

Something was said that basically gets to the root of my problem with this type of service. If the providers do not know the biomechanics of the foot and ankle, how then can they provide a device to properly correct the situation?

Also, Dr.Alzner could test two million feet, but as we all know, no two feet are the same. Everyone I see needs something different. Most people think plantar fasciitis just needs basic arch support. Some do, some do not. You need to get to understand the cause. To understand the cause, you need to know what is going on biomechanically in order to solve the problem.

Thats the root, beef, and nitty gritty of my initial post.
Richard

Re: Good Feet Store

wendyn on 1/21/03 at 08:08 (106114)

Thanks Michael - you're right - I don't have a grip on your company. I know very little about it (thus the questions).

If your company was my source of income, I probably would feel the same way you do.

You don't seem to want to respond to a lot of the questions and concerns - and you aren't obligated to - I'd rather you just say so and I wouldn't waste my time.

My concern with your company is that it seems to get a lot of negative responses here, and I wondered if there wasn't some real merit or benefit that perhaps was being overlooked.

Evidently not.

So - things shall go on, and I will continue a little better informed than I was a few days ago.

(p.s. - a good example of the unanwered questions is at the end of your post. The first question was 'how' do they know? 'This is absolutely the case' is not an answer to the _how_ they know)

Anyway - enough from me....we'll continue this line of discussion only if you want to Michael.

Re: Michael- The Good Foot Store

Dr. Zuckerman on 1/21/03 at 09:06 (106121)

Hi

My name is Dr. Z . This was a very interesting post. Could you e-mail Dr. Z
at (email removed). I would like to talk to you .

Thanks

Re: Good Feet Store

Michael J on 1/21/03 at 09:53 (106125)

I haven't been avoiding any of your questions really....I truth is I really only have so much energy and desire to put into this and that is probably the reason all your questions did'nt get responded to...

I have appreciated your interest though, that I will say.

Thanks

Re: Good Feet Store

D.Thomas on 1/21/03 at 10:35 (106128)

Michael,

I have to admit that I do not like your analogies very much. I tend to get this snake oil salesman or used car salesman feeling about your company.

There is a huge difference between glasses and orthotics. The main difference is that the price paid for prescription glassess is highly correlated with fashion perception. Orthotics are not. They are not even in the same ballpark.

I really don't see what you guys offer over let's say over the counter 'powerstep orthotics' for $30. And in my opinion your higher priced stuff (which I assume is higher priced because of more research and development) can't even compete with custom made orthotics that meet specific individual needs. I must also admit that I don't understand the different pricing levels for your orthotics? I guess it's like selling a Cadillac vs. a Yugo? Why have a Yugo when you can have a Cadillac?

In my opinion, if you were honest, your real target market is people who don't educate themselves enough to know what are the better values, given high quality –vs- cost. I bet you serve a high % of elderly people. But, I guess that is what 'The American Way' means to you.

Re: Good Feet Store

D.Thomas on 1/21/03 at 10:38 (106129)

I actually don't blame you or your company. I fault people for not knowing any better and buying your product.

Re: Good Feet Store

Ed Davis, DPM on 1/21/03 at 16:46 (106182)

Richard:

I have to agree with you 100%. I am reading what has been 'represented' here by an individual from the stores. What I am hearing in advertisements and patient feedback is that they are implying (at best) to provide a cure for a number of foot and postural problems. One can argue ad nauseum as to what constitutes the practice of providing diagnoses and treatment but I am having a hard time seeing how they are representing any less than that. They are lay people with no accredited training in foot problems, biomechanics, pathology, etc....

What exactly is there roll? As Bill Clinton once said, 'It depends on what your definition of is is.'
Ed

Re: Good Feet Store

Richard, C.Ped on 1/22/03 at 08:37 (106268)

Amen Brother!
Richard

Re: Good Feet Store

Ed Davis, DPM on 1/22/03 at 21:33 (106400)

People have an obligation to educate themselves about products but sellers have an obligation to be honest in their presentations. Consumers want to believe they are being told the truth and cannot be expected to have a level of sophistication to protect themselves from those who may do otherwise.
Ed

Re: Good Feet Store

D.Thomas on 1/23/03 at 09:02 (106441)

I agree with your theory Dr. Ed. But in the United States there are a ton of people who are out to steal your money and don't care about seliing a high quality product. Look at all the telemarketing calls you get at night. My personal belief is you have to be very CAREFUL before you buy something. You have to educate yourself on items that are important to you. You shouldn't rely soley trusting a seller. There are too many snake oil salesman and products out there. And they love to prey on the elderly.

I would never recommend a 'goodfeet store' after my experience and what I have seen and read. I cannot believe they charge over $200 for a prefab orthotic. This is unbelieveable to me.

Re: Good Feet Store

BG.CPed on 1/23/03 at 18:33 (106523)

Peer review is a paper that is read by several members of a group or similar practitioners. The design team you speak of I am not sure about since most of your devices are just based on the Alzner mold but different durometers/hardness of plastic. That design has been around for years. It is injection molded and probably at the volume cost about $1.50 to $2.00 per pair to manufacture. I have no problem with the American way but thats not my idea of the American way, or the Canadian way for that matter...................WENDY

Re: Good Feet Store

IanJ on 1/30/03 at 08:28 (107322)

PowerStep makes exactly the same claim you do and cost $30.

Re: Good Feet Store

Suzanne D on 1/18/03 at 16:32 (105829)

I'm glad you care enough about what you do and also about others to be upset by this! After I was diagnosed with PF but before I found this site, a friend took me to one of the Goodfeet Stores. She had bought a pair of orthotics there for $250. The saleslady explained the different models by saying that this one 'worked one muscle', this one, two, and of course the most expensive one worked four, I think. That just didn't make sense to me, and it all seemed so slick with the prepared speech and all. I wondered if anyone ever put their feet on the 'carbon paper' and were told that they only needed the cheapest device which 'worked one muscle'. I thanked her and my friend but didn't buy anything. I was tempted to as my feet hurt so much, but it just didn't all seem to add up. I am sorry for anyone who gets 'ripped off' by others who take advantage of their pain. It seems to me that there is less general knowledge out there about foot ailments than almost any other medical problem. I have been educated so much on this site.

Take care. Thanks for what you do to help others!
Suzanne :-)

Re: Good Feet Store

Carole C in NOLA on 1/18/03 at 19:35 (105845)

Richard, I can't help but agree from what I've heard about the Good Feet Store. I've never been there.

But my C.Ped spent literally HOURS with me making my custom orthotics, watching me walk, adjusting them until they were just right, and all the while explaining about them and my feet and all the conservative treatments in detail, and answering questions. She did this (focused her time and energy exclusively on my crummy feet for hours) out of the goodness of her heart even though I'm not anyone special, just another person sitting in her store crying over my poor useless, painful feet.

The day I hear about the Good Feet store doing something like that, I'll sure be surprised. I was also encouraged to return for free adjustments any time. I never needed any, though.

All that, and it was cheaper than what that old lady paid the Good Feet store.

My only gripe about C.Peds is that they require a prescription. I wish people could just drop in.

Carole C

Re: Good Feet Store

Michael J on 1/19/03 at 01:08 (105884)

I own 2 Good Feet stores, and I would invite anyone on this thread to be a fly on the wall in my stores or any Good Feet Store for that matter and see and listen first hand the types of results and benefits a majority of our customers receive from our products. We have a sophisticated follow-up system to each customer and approximately 85% of our customers are satisfied with their purchase and are recieving varying degrees of benefit for their needs. About 10% of the time we have to re-fit or re-size a product in order to make our customers comfortable wearing the a given product..once we do that with these customers about 95% of them are satisfied. About 5% of our customers do not get any benefit from wearing our products...I'll put this type of satisfaction up against not only most reputable business's but many in the medical field as well. In regards to the elderly person above, our people are trained to introduce the product(s) that will most likely benefit that persons needs based on the feedback we receive from are customers as well as their first hand knowledge. If this women would benefit the most from our $250.00 product that would be the only reason the person would have sold it to her. We have cheaper products but..our products are sold on benefit..not based on price. In our stores we won't sell a product if we feel it wont give that person any benefit.

Regards

Re: Good Feet Store

Carole C in NOLA on 1/19/03 at 07:56 (105893)

Michael,

Do you only hire certified pedorthists to do this? Or do you just hire people off the street and give them some sort of in-house training? How long is the in-house training? Yesrs? Months? or just weeks?

How do you counter numerous reports of employees at Good Feet stores who aren't certified and don't even know the basics about how feet work?

Carole C

Re: Good Feet Store

wendyn on 1/19/03 at 08:49 (105903)

Michael - just a thought...any idea what the satisfaction rate is for people who by an off the shelf orthotic for $30?

Re: Good Feet Store

Richard, C.Ped on 1/19/03 at 19:52 (105981)

Michael,
I have been in the local GFS and was apalled at what I saw and heard. I am very dissapointed that you think your product is actually worth $250. I am upset by a couple of things. One, I strongly believe that the product sold to the individual I spoke about was not for her. I had her sit down and with her ankle in sub-talor neutral, I placed the 'orthosis' (a term I use very loosly) on her foot. It did not even come close to touching her medial as well as her lateral arches.

Two, I honestly have to say that what the GFS as well as other 'foot stores' are doing is diagnosing a problem then providing what you think the customer needs. In my book, and everything that I have learned, I strongly believe that is illegal. I have, on more than I can remember, have either fixed or had to totally re-do what others have supplied due to an improper device.

What really irritates me the most is the improper care that many diabetic receive. That in itself is a whole other story.

It really breaks my heart to see that people are being taken advantage of in situations such as this. I do not know what credentials you have, but the device sold to this lady was lacking in many areas.
Richard

Re: Good Feet Store

Michael J on 1/19/03 at 23:31 (105999)

You do not need to be a certified pedorthist to recommend an arch support that you see results in day after day, no more than you do to walk into a drug store and purchase and over the counter support or cushion, which in our expierience seems to be the case with many podiatrists. I can only speak for my employees who have a wealth of knowledge when it comes to the foot and its basic functions but more importantly have the expierience of seeing results over and over. We offer no medical advise and offer knowledge that is readily available to anyone via many avenues these days..ie internet etc...

Regards

Re: Good Feet Store

Michael J on 1/19/03 at 23:41 (106000)

I have no idea, but Im sure there are benefits for alot of people depending on what there trying to get help with. It seems that cost is an issue for those on here and I'm not sure why that is? We manufacture are own products right here in the US, we spend probably a minimum of 1/2 to 1 hour with each customer, we follow up to make sure they are getting some benefit, we show them the benefits first hand, we offer a satisfaction guarantee, and all our products except for 1 are guaranteed to last a lifetime..and most importantly OUR PRODUCTS WORK to varying degrees most of the time!!! In these times I don't see where, considering the above, spending between $100 and $200 should be at issue. I guess it depends on what kind of price tag an individual can put on making their feet and entire body feel better....I know if I was a consumer and had some of the issues we see and HELP..I couldnt put a price tag on that, but everyone is different.

Regards

Re: Good Feet Store

Michael J on 1/19/03 at 23:48 (106001)

Might possibly not have been the right product for this women I have no idea, thats why we have a satisfaction guarantee and in my stores we will try 10 supports if thats what it takes to help a person...(TELL ME HOW MANY STORES or medical people will do that?).just as when a podiatrist molds a support for someone and it does them no good(in most of these cases the support is sitting in there closet someplace..of course since their insurance company paid for most of it THEY DONT CARE)...I can't tell you how many times a day I hear that. I have nothing against a molded support and I have actually recieved some benefit from them personally early in my life...but come on my friend in most cases we are benefiting people..isn't that what is should be about???

Re: Good Feet Store

wendyn on 1/20/03 at 07:13 (106010)

Thanks Michael - now please stick with me on this for a minute longer (I really don't know much about Good Feet Stores at all)

$100 or $200 is not too much to spend, if what you're getting is wort that. Now - what I'm wondering, is if your orthotics actually correct anything - and are they better than what someone can get for $30 - and if so - why?

In my case, I have (this is not an exhaustive list) - a forefoot varus, tibial tortion, dorsal bunsion, pes planus, tartsal tunnel syndrome and RSD.

Would someone in your stores know how to help with these conditions, and would they be trained to recognize them?

What type of training do they receive in foot problems, and what do they do to help with them?

(remember I don't know anything about them - other than some pretty negative posts by people here over the last 4 years)

Re: Good Feet Store

D.Thomas on 1/20/03 at 09:39 (106017)

Michael,

Huge difference here. Most of the orthotics that are used by C.Peds, Podiatrists, and Orthos are based on methods and designs that have been tested with experimental designs and written in type A peer reviewed journals.

Re: Good Feet Store

Michael J on 1/20/03 at 10:03 (106021)

If someone came in looking for medical advise, in this case telling them all of those problems and specifically trying to 'cure' them, and while it could very well be that you might benefit from wearing some of our products....they would not help you. Our policy which is stated everywhere,is that anyone having serious foot problems should see a doctor. However if one of my people has seen some benefit from someone on this problems prior, what is wrong with passing that information along and then leaving it up to the person to see if they want to try them or not? Also, even if the person gets only minimal benefit foot wise from wearing them, there is alot of benefit beyond the foot in wearing a proper arch support.

The answer is we do not diagnoise and prescribe treatment to anyone. Again, any info we give out is only based on what we hear and see from our customers as well as a wealth of common knowledge that is out there to anyone.

Re: Good Feet Store

Michael J on 1/20/03 at 10:09 (106022)

No difference at all. We have a team of Podiatrists, C.Peds and Orthos that design products. I do not know about the 'type A peer journals. And besides this....what is the real difference if they are helping people??? I'm at a lose to what the issue is here......We don't force anyone to spend there $ with us..but if they choose to there is a good chance they'll get some benefit......isn't that the American way?

Re: Good Feet Store

Carole C in NOLA on 1/20/03 at 10:16 (106023)

Michael, you said, 'Our policy which is stated everywhere,is that anyone having serious foot problems should see a doctor.'

So you do not consider plantar fasciitis to be a serious foot problem?

Carole C

Re: Good Feet Store

Michael J on 1/20/03 at 10:52 (106026)

I absolutley do consider that a serious problem..having had it. I can tell you that if there is one 'problem' that we hear about in our stores that without a doubt a majority of our people get some benefit from it's PF. Again, if a person wants me to tell them from a medical standpoint it will cure their specific problem(PF) and this is what they need to hear to satsify them before they'll spend a penny..they need to go somewhere else.but if they want an abundance of information fedback from countless numbers of people who have told us it has helped them, then I suggest they try the product. Also, if they want to hide behind the financial fact that maybe they won't be out of pocket for any dollars because their insurance company is stuck with the bill in other cases, well then I suggest they really dont want to help their health problem and would only consider it if they dont have to spend any $...to me that is sad. Now if a person can not afford to spend what we charge for our products, then of course they should find something that hopefully benefits them based on their financial situation...this I have no problem with.

Re: Good Feet Store

D.Thomas on 1/20/03 at 11:08 (106027)

Michael,

I do have two questions for you if you don't mind to answer.

1) How many different types of orthotics do you carry? For example, What type of orthotic would you recommend a person with cavus feet? Do you use orthtoics that push up in the arch to support for cavus feet? Do you guys use the same orthotic for flat feet as you would cavus feet? Meaning do you put any corrections into the orthotic for different cases?

2) Don't you mass produce the orthotics? When most companies mass produce a product, there is a huge cost savings. But, your orthotics cost the same as ones that are custom made. This one confuses me. Any justification?

Re: Good Feet Store

Carole C in NOLA on 1/20/03 at 11:27 (106028)

Michael, you stated, 'Our policy which is stated everywhere,is that anyone having serious foot problems should see a doctor.'

You then stated about PF, 'I absolutley do consider that a serious problem' and

'but if they want an abundance of information fedback from countless numbers of people [with PF] who have told us it has helped them, then I suggest they try the product'

Being helped by a product doesn't mean a whole lot, since there are degrees of being helped; before seeing my doctor I was 'helped' by gel heel pads from Wal-Mart but if I relied on them only, I believe I'd be unable to walk at all right now. (By the way, folks, don't waste your money on gel heel pads from Wal-Mart either.)

To be blunt, no reputable doctor is going to diagnose PF and then send his patients to your stores to get fitted by untrained non-professionals. It just isn't going to happen. My doctor sent me with a prescription to a trained C.Ped with a great reputation in the local community (and this C.Ped is located just a few blocks from a Good Feet store).

So, I had what you consider to be a serious problem, PF, and I followed the advice posted in your store... to see a doctor. Of course the result is that the doctor told me to go to a particular C.Ped with an excellent reputation and track record, not to your store. My very severe case of PF seems to be completely healed now.

Considering what you have posted in this thread, I think you should amend those signs (that you say are posted everywhere in your store). They should say,

'Anyone having serious foot problems like plantar fasciitis should see a doctor, so if you have PF, get out of here and get to your doctor, pronto!'

Carole C

Re: PS

Carole C in NOLA on 1/20/03 at 11:54 (106033)

P.S.

Michael, maybe I focused overly on the negative, and I want to also point out some positive things about the Good Feet Stores.

I *DO* think that your stores have a valuable function in providing over the counter solutions to people who don't have PF or other serious conditions, but just want an expensive and comfortable insert to put in their every day shoes.

For example, someone with a retail sales job in a department store who has to stand all day on their feet, but who doesn't have PF or other serious problems, might really, really benefit from your product. I'm not an accountant but I suspect that he/she could probably deduct it from their taxes as a job related expense, too.

Carole C

Re: Good Feet Store

Michael J on 1/20/03 at 12:39 (106037)

Quite frankly, I'm not what your point is here....You got help in your way and in other case's we might be the ones to help you or someone else. This topic should probably be laid to rest here.

Re: PS

Michael J on 1/20/03 at 12:40 (106038)

I think thats well stated and fair..

Re: Good Feet Store

wendyn on 1/20/03 at 17:16 (106064)

I'm still confused Michael. If I didn't know I had all those things, and I only knew I had sore feet...how would the staff at these stores take care of me if they don't diagnose and they don't treat. I know what I have because I've seen a doctor...but what if I just walked (or hobbled) by one of your stores instead?

I'm not trying to be a pain, but I still don't understand what type of training your staff have and what exactly it is that they (or the orthotics) do that warrants a price tage of $200 instead of $20.

I will look through the thread again, but I don't recall seeing the training issue ever answered.

Re: Good Feet Store

Michael J on 1/20/03 at 18:06 (106072)

While no one at our stores is qualified to speak in the medical terms you are throwing out, it's my opinion that based on what you have stated your doctor said, you are saying that your doctor has said 'you have pressure on the fore foot which is resulting in bunions due to a flat or flatter foot and improper alignment in the foot'...I may not be exaxctely correct here but fairly close....and to answer your question...I do know how our products may or may not help this situation as we have many many people come in complaining of the same thing in much more lay terms!!!

I don't really feel it's necessary to address the cost issue becuase quite frankly in our stores cost really isn't an issue for most of our customers..If it is for you I respect that and would only say that probably our stores are not somewhere you should search out for relief. And in fact you may find either some or possibly the same amount of benefit in other supports as their are many out there. All I know is what I see in our stores and our customers and that is all I care about.

Re: Good Feet Store

Carole C in NOLA on 1/20/03 at 19:10 (106078)

Oh, my. I won't say a word.

Re: Good Feet Store

Michael J on 1/20/03 at 20:32 (106084)

1. Our original products (Alznner/Barefoot) are molded to a specific shape and support structure which based on Dr. Alznners study of I believe around 20,000 feet or so appears to be the most benefical position the foot can be in to help align all the bones. Our goal is to put the foot in the most neutral alignment. benefits and sensations will certainly vary depending on their arch structure, prior problems, activites etc..but there is alot benefit in having your foot aligned better beyond your feet as well..I'm sure most recognize this on this board. I would say that the varying types of arch's(ie flat foot vs pes cavus) seem to be directly correlated to the amount of benefit people get. sometimes its mediocore in a flat foot and miraculous in a pes cavus or vice verse...but i do know that there usually is some benefit either way in most situations. As i stated before, occasionally we get no benefit foot wise either way as well but there is still benefit in wearing arch supports(not just ours) biomechaniclly in my opinion..I think common sense tells us that.

2. Our products range from $59 to $229 and as I have stated before, considering what we do and how much we seem to be helping people, I personally don't have an problem with that... I mean the last pair frames for my prescription glasses I purchased were $350 for a very tiny piece of metal. The cost in our products certainly isnt in the material, but in the enginering, the machinery, and basic costs associated with running a professional business. There is also a lot of $ spent on research and development by our company.

Thanks

Re: Good Feet Store

wendyn on 1/20/03 at 23:15 (106103)

Hmmm - well - it's been an interesting - and enlightening discussion Michael - and I do appreciate the time you've taken to try to help me understand.

I guess the bottom line (from where I see it) is - you sell prefabricated orthotic devices that seem to help some people.

Your staff don't have any type of training in foot anatomoy or conditions whatsoever (or it's evidently not sufficient to worth mentioning here)

(unless I've missed it, and considering how tired I am - that's entirely possible).

If I was to walk into one of your stores, your staff would not only be unable to help me - they would not be able to understand the medical terminology of (some) relatively common foot problems. Pes planus and forefoot varus should be part of the vocabulary of anyone dealing with feet. (IMNSHO). If I talked to an orthotic person who didn't know what that was - I would probably be have to be picked up off the floor (where I would have melted in a puddle of disbelief).

Your orthotics may be beneficial to someone with mild foot pain from over use - although I'm not sure how your staff would recognize the difference between something like a simple case of PF from over exertion - and a much more serious case of TTS (considering they don't know what that is) - or something like a progressive post tib tendon problem.

I realize that they don't claim to be treating or diagnosing - but I'm wondering how they know when they are dealing with something that is beyond their ability (do they ever send customers to doctors instead of selling them an orthotic?)

I'm glad that your orthotics work for some people - but I seem to have ended up with more questions than answers (perhaps I should not have started in the first place!!!)

Re: Good Feet Store

wendyn on 1/20/03 at 23:17 (106104)

ps - no Michael - your not close on the terminology translation, and no - you don't have a lot of people walking in each day describing the same things in layman's terms. In order to understand that - you would have to understand what those medical terms mean.

I am too tired to explain them tonight.

Maybe tomorrow.

Re: Good Feet Store

Michael J on 1/21/03 at 00:04 (106105)

Honestly....I'm not 100% sure what your concern is....I would think you should just say that our stores are helping alot of people and be thankful for that, albiet our products are not for everyone......because it seems you really dont have a grip with our company..just questions. I truly believe if you were involved with our company you would feel the same way I do. We do no harm to anyone and only help people..that has to be a good thing in todays world.

Good luck to you
ps
realize that they don't claim to be treating or diagnosing - but I'm wondering how they know when they are dealing with something that is beyond their ability (do they ever send customers to doctors instead of selling them an orthotic?)

this is absolutely the case

Re: Good Feet Store

Richard, C.Ped on 1/21/03 at 08:00 (106113)

Something was said that basically gets to the root of my problem with this type of service. If the providers do not know the biomechanics of the foot and ankle, how then can they provide a device to properly correct the situation?

Also, Dr.Alzner could test two million feet, but as we all know, no two feet are the same. Everyone I see needs something different. Most people think plantar fasciitis just needs basic arch support. Some do, some do not. You need to get to understand the cause. To understand the cause, you need to know what is going on biomechanically in order to solve the problem.

Thats the root, beef, and nitty gritty of my initial post.
Richard

Re: Good Feet Store

wendyn on 1/21/03 at 08:08 (106114)

Thanks Michael - you're right - I don't have a grip on your company. I know very little about it (thus the questions).

If your company was my source of income, I probably would feel the same way you do.

You don't seem to want to respond to a lot of the questions and concerns - and you aren't obligated to - I'd rather you just say so and I wouldn't waste my time.

My concern with your company is that it seems to get a lot of negative responses here, and I wondered if there wasn't some real merit or benefit that perhaps was being overlooked.

Evidently not.

So - things shall go on, and I will continue a little better informed than I was a few days ago.

(p.s. - a good example of the unanwered questions is at the end of your post. The first question was 'how' do they know? 'This is absolutely the case' is not an answer to the _how_ they know)

Anyway - enough from me....we'll continue this line of discussion only if you want to Michael.

Re: Michael- The Good Foot Store

Dr. Zuckerman on 1/21/03 at 09:06 (106121)

Hi

My name is Dr. Z . This was a very interesting post. Could you e-mail Dr. Z
at (email removed). I would like to talk to you .

Thanks

Re: Good Feet Store

Michael J on 1/21/03 at 09:53 (106125)

I haven't been avoiding any of your questions really....I truth is I really only have so much energy and desire to put into this and that is probably the reason all your questions did'nt get responded to...

I have appreciated your interest though, that I will say.

Thanks

Re: Good Feet Store

D.Thomas on 1/21/03 at 10:35 (106128)

Michael,

I have to admit that I do not like your analogies very much. I tend to get this snake oil salesman or used car salesman feeling about your company.

There is a huge difference between glasses and orthotics. The main difference is that the price paid for prescription glassess is highly correlated with fashion perception. Orthotics are not. They are not even in the same ballpark.

I really don't see what you guys offer over let's say over the counter 'powerstep orthotics' for $30. And in my opinion your higher priced stuff (which I assume is higher priced because of more research and development) can't even compete with custom made orthotics that meet specific individual needs. I must also admit that I don't understand the different pricing levels for your orthotics? I guess it's like selling a Cadillac vs. a Yugo? Why have a Yugo when you can have a Cadillac?

In my opinion, if you were honest, your real target market is people who don't educate themselves enough to know what are the better values, given high quality –vs- cost. I bet you serve a high % of elderly people. But, I guess that is what 'The American Way' means to you.

Re: Good Feet Store

D.Thomas on 1/21/03 at 10:38 (106129)

I actually don't blame you or your company. I fault people for not knowing any better and buying your product.

Re: Good Feet Store

Ed Davis, DPM on 1/21/03 at 16:46 (106182)

Richard:

I have to agree with you 100%. I am reading what has been 'represented' here by an individual from the stores. What I am hearing in advertisements and patient feedback is that they are implying (at best) to provide a cure for a number of foot and postural problems. One can argue ad nauseum as to what constitutes the practice of providing diagnoses and treatment but I am having a hard time seeing how they are representing any less than that. They are lay people with no accredited training in foot problems, biomechanics, pathology, etc....

What exactly is there roll? As Bill Clinton once said, 'It depends on what your definition of is is.'
Ed

Re: Good Feet Store

Richard, C.Ped on 1/22/03 at 08:37 (106268)

Amen Brother!
Richard

Re: Good Feet Store

Ed Davis, DPM on 1/22/03 at 21:33 (106400)

People have an obligation to educate themselves about products but sellers have an obligation to be honest in their presentations. Consumers want to believe they are being told the truth and cannot be expected to have a level of sophistication to protect themselves from those who may do otherwise.
Ed

Re: Good Feet Store

D.Thomas on 1/23/03 at 09:02 (106441)

I agree with your theory Dr. Ed. But in the United States there are a ton of people who are out to steal your money and don't care about seliing a high quality product. Look at all the telemarketing calls you get at night. My personal belief is you have to be very CAREFUL before you buy something. You have to educate yourself on items that are important to you. You shouldn't rely soley trusting a seller. There are too many snake oil salesman and products out there. And they love to prey on the elderly.

I would never recommend a 'goodfeet store' after my experience and what I have seen and read. I cannot believe they charge over $200 for a prefab orthotic. This is unbelieveable to me.

Re: Good Feet Store

BG.CPed on 1/23/03 at 18:33 (106523)

Peer review is a paper that is read by several members of a group or similar practitioners. The design team you speak of I am not sure about since most of your devices are just based on the Alzner mold but different durometers/hardness of plastic. That design has been around for years. It is injection molded and probably at the volume cost about $1.50 to $2.00 per pair to manufacture. I have no problem with the American way but thats not my idea of the American way, or the Canadian way for that matter...................WENDY

Re: Good Feet Store

IanJ on 1/30/03 at 08:28 (107322)

PowerStep makes exactly the same claim you do and cost $30.

Re: Good Feet Store

Tina M. on 12/09/06 at 07:27 (216961)

Read all of this if you really want to get rid of PF. I love my orthotics from Good Feet Store. I have had them now for 2 1/2 years. Here's what I did differently than anything I am reading here. I suffered from severe PF in both feet. I was officially diagnosed by a doc who wanted to do the 'norm,' and give a cortisone shot. The very nature of my work would not allow for the required 'off your feet,' for 24+ hours after the shot. I had the advantage of having done a great deal of research on this matter before actually seeing the doc. My research revealed that the cortisone shot is not a 'cure,' will most likely not bring results for any length of time, and continued use of cortisone is not good for the human body. I quizzed my doctor to the Nth degree about the CAUSE behind the PF. She explained that it was all about getting the inflammation down. When I asked what other methods besides cortisone would do that, she said strict immobilization. I pushed her on what could do that. Let me tell you, she was getting frustrated with me, but I was adamant that I wanted to find the root cause, not mask the problem. She finally told me using a boot cast would immobilize my feet without restricting me from the use of my feet. She wanted to sell me a $150 boot cast. I went down to the local medical supply store and bought it for $80 (my own cash - no insurance. I wore a boot cast on my left foot for nearly four weeks until it was healed. I then switched it to my right foot, while I used a higher quality orthotics from a local store in my left. It took another four weeks with the boot cast on the right foot, but it worked. I also saw my chiro frequently, knowing I was causing great stress on my structure. ONLY then, did I go to the Good Feet Store and purchase the complete enchilada from the Good Feet Store. I visited the store three months before I actually went back to purchase the orthotics. There was NEVER any high pressure sales. I knew it would require actually getting the inflammation down before the orthotics would really pay off. AND IT DID! More people ought to be more proactive of fixing a problem rather than using the well-known United States Method of 'just fix it for me with drugs, surgery, or a CHEAP orthotic,' that simply masks the problem. By the way, I believe their 'system' of using ALL the components (quality shoes, orthotics, rubber cushions, and even the socks) is a key as well. I continue to purchase the type and quality of shoes they gave me, and have acknowledged that the use of orthotics will be life-long... unless I want the PF to return -- NOT! By the way, I also drool over the FootSmart catalog, recalling how bad my feet hurt before orthotics.
THANK YOU GOOD FEET STORE (NeoVita) in Tacoma, Washington.

Re: Good Feet Store

Mike P on 10/16/08 at 09:55 (251230)

I guess I should have done this search and reading earlier but alas, after the fact is better than nothing. I recently went to the GFS, like Tina. A much different problem though but still got the whole package. I had suffered a fall about 3+ years ago that continually made my back pain, sciatica, and long term standing and walking more difficult. After Chrioprator diagnosis and treatments that lasted about a week for over a year, I had to pursue another avenue. The problem was I 'broke' my back at the lower lumbar vertabrae, or so I was told and it healed slightly forward of proper alignment. Surgery was NOT recommended due to the risk and nerves associated. OK, that left me with enduring pain off and on or trying something new. Granted, I was taken in by the testimonials, espceially Emmett Smith, the footballer and Dancing with the Stars contestant who wears the GFS product. Now, after overpaying, in my opinion, for their 3 stage system, I must say I am satisfied with the results. Maybe I could have done it cheaper, who knows. But when you weigh it against Chrio treatments ongoing with my insurance co-pay, I will have broken even in less than a year. So, I guess the point is, each person is different as to what they accomplish with the GFS product and what the alternative is.

Re: Good Feet Store

Dr. Wedemeyer on 10/16/08 at 11:35 (251234)

Let me get this straight Mike P. You suffered a traumatic spinal fracture (probably a pars fracture leading to a spondylolisthesis), which caused sciatica and low back pain and you feel that the GFS arch supports were of equal value to your 'Chriopractor treatments'.

First I would like to ask you what specifically was improved? Was it the sciatica, the back pain or both? Was it your feet, because you did not mention foot pain.

First off if you did suffer what you describe as a pars fracture (forward slippage of a veryebral segment in relation to the segment below) which resulted in a spondylolisthesis, this is a HUGE contraindication to 'Chriopractic treatment'.

Second your description of your pain does not subjectively match what spondylolisthesis patients describe. There are very key features to the type of pain and complaints in ALL spondylolisthesis patients and based on what you have written I just do not buy your description.

There is no research, data or anecdotal clinical evidence that OTC or custom orthoses improve the pain of sciatica, especially resulting in a spondylolisthesis from a pars fracture. The same is true for non-specific mechanical low back pain.

Anyone who has severe, chronic low back pain with leg pain, numbness or tingling should consult a doctor and should not consider any insert or orthosis as a substitute for proper medical care.

I would view Mike's post with a modicum of suspicion and bet that there is a conflict of interest in its motive.

Re: Good Feet Store

john h on 10/16/08 at 19:19 (251253)

I had low back surgery about 30 years ago at the L5/S1 and L5/L4 levels. Pain has been with me before and after. No fusion. The diagnosis is Failed Low Back Surgery Syndrome which means they do not know why I have pain.

No surgeon ever mentioned, and I have seen some of the best in the country, that orthotics might help. I have never even read that. I also have PF and tried many expensive orthotics. I never purchased them for my back nor did I expect any help from them for my back. Anything I have ever read indicated if you have low back pain and leg pain you better start looking for a pinched nerve which can be caused by various problems like a bulging/protruding disc. If I had those symptoms and my Doctor recommended orthotics I would not just walk out of his office I would run out.

I thought I saw a mention of The Good Feet Store. I manage shopping centers. In one of the centers I managed we had a Good Feet Store. Actually they changed to that name a few years past. I forgot their old name. I was very familar with PF and the many forms of treatment. I had read that this store did not sell custom orthotics but off the shelf types. I wanted to find out for myself. I entered and found myself amidst many older people who I would guess to be on Medicade or Medicare. Some were in wheel chairs. A man waited on me and I told him I had PF. He took out a piece of paper which when I placed my foot on it left an impression of my foot. He then went to the back room and shortly returned with my custom orthotics. I was told that this would likely cure my problem. It was a one piece synthetic orthotic which was probably mass produced from a mold in different sizes. The salesman was well trained and went through his speil flawlessly. At that time I think these orthotics were quoted to me for $225.00. They probably cost $5.00 to make. I believe they did say I could return them. If you think you need orthotics I would have my Doctor make a cast of my feet and have them made or purchase some very good off the shelf orthotics for under $50 which are sold at many stores or even on this site. The best pair of orthotics I have ever had I am wearing now. They came from the local New Balance Store. The list price was $39.00. The manager recommended them when he overheard me say I had PF. He had just sold my wife a pair of New Balance shoes so he gave them to me for free. I would guess I spent near $2000 on orthotics in the past 14 years. They have not been a cure but maybe helped my feet feel a bit better. They have had zero effect on my back. I have also found that Birkenstock Arizona sandals provide more relief than any orthotic. They have an orthotic type footbed. There is a place for orthotics such as flat feet and other conditions. Many people still would argue that orthotics are a questionable treatment for PF. I think scootr may be one those but am not sure.

I happen to manage shopping centers. In one of the centers I managed

Re: Good Feet Store

Dr. Wedemeyer on 10/20/08 at 23:48 (251344)

I would add to John's post that there is actually very little disagreement that both custom orthoses and OTC inserts (the better ones) do in fact help PF tremendously when they are prescribed judiciously.

Many of the PF complaints that the providers here treat are as a result of repetitive mechanical tissue stress due to anatomical faults in the feet, gait dysfunction, traumatic overuse and acute traumatic injury.

While some studies compete and disagree whether or not custom orthoses provide a distinct advantage over OTC inserts (many of these studies touting OTC or a proprietary custom orthosis lab have a financial interest in the study outcome), I would say that each function as intended when chosen for the appropriateness and severity of the condition.

I often afford patients a temporary insert as a trial but by no means would I characterize their effect as greater than a well casted and prescribed, truly functional custom orthosis.

The truth is OTC inserts are not individual to that persons anatomy, foot function and gait, they are made from an inferior material that is prone to wear rapidly and diminish their effect, often in a matter of weeks or months.

A custom on the other hand can last for several years assuming that your feet don't change dramatically. So if you add up all those OTC inserts and the price of a custom you may be much better off clinically and financially doing your homework and locating a doctor who focuses on biomechanics and orthotic intervention.

The Alzner type inserts GFS sells are very inexpensive to manufacture as John has stated. They are not for everybody nor every foot type and should not sell for more than $40 period.

Food for thought..

Re: Good Feet Store

john b on 6/23/09 at 13:22 (258332)

If you say the range is $59-$229, why was I charged $400 and if I wanted the retainer it was another $200. When I went back to get a refund because it felt like I had a rock in my shoe, I was told-no refund which after I insisted changed to no refund until after 90 days and then only 1/2 the cost. I objected and he pointed to a pile of paper on the counter with the policy which he did not give me or tell me about. He sure was quick to grab my credit card and put the charge through. I can't even see what might have been on a sheet of paper on a counter without glasses. As with the other posts, this store did not know about the structure of the foot. I asked about the bone structure of the foot and in particular how can my foot conform to this lump. How can a board possibly bend around a rock under it. My question was are there several bones around the arch that would bend to follow the shape of the support. Answer, I don't know. I feel ripped off when I could buy a $35 support in the drug store.