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sclerosing injections

Posted by JohnA on 3/13/03 at 18:49 (112832)

I have two of the alcohol injections a week apart for a neuroma. The first was painful for the first three days. My foot itched and was red with bruising. After the second shot the pain was severe with throbbing and stabbing pain so intense that I hardly slept for the first two nights. It has been two weeks now since the last shot. My foot is still bruised with some redness around the injection site. The pain is back to where it was before the injections. My doctor doesn't think any more injections would be indicated. He wants to do surgery. I do not want to have surgery. What do some of the doctors that read this board think. Has anyone else had the same experience?

Re: sclerosing injections

Dr. Z on 3/13/03 at 19:41 (112846)

Hi,

Have you had local steriod injections if you have had them and they failed then excisoin of the neuroma is a very good choice. In the right case it does work and work well

Re: sclerosing injections

Pauline on 3/13/03 at 21:24 (112892)

John,
Your current doctor sounds like the type the guys from 'Footlaw' are looking for. If I were you I'd get another opinion before I'd let him do your surgery.

From what the doctors here have posted sclerosing is a simple procedure that brings great results, not what your experiencing.

If your doctor can't inject correctly, what does your gut tell you about his surgical techniques? Mine would say run.

Podiatrist turned attorneys make up the Footlaw group. Their website is http://www.footlaw.com . Your post is kind of timely because the other day I noticed on their web site they were looking for clients who where injured by sclerosing. See how your foot turns out, who knows down the road you might need their help.

Re: sclerosing injections

Dr. David S. Wander on 3/14/03 at 16:20 (112992)

Prior to seeking legal action regarding the sclerosing injections, you should speak with your doctor about the reaction you've had. Any patient can have any reaction to any medication. I doubt if your doctor used poor 'technique', since injecting the interspace is not a complicated procedure. You may have had a strange reaction to the injections, and naturally should not have more sclerosing injections. The discomfort will probably resolve over time, though I know that doesn't make you feel better at the present time. You may have had a reaction to the local anesthetic, the preservative in the anesthetic, the latex in the syringe, the latex in your doctor's gloves, etc. Discuss your concerns with your doctor, I'm sure your doctor's goal is to help you, not hurt you. Best of luck.

Re: sclerosing injections

Dr. David S. Wander on 3/14/03 at 16:25 (112993)

Pauline, why do you assume the doctor can't inject correctly? And why are you so quick to recommend that John seeks an attorney because he was 'injured' by these injections? As stated in my other post on this thread, some patients unfortunately have a bad reaction to a medication for a plethora of reasons. Don't assume the doctor did anything wrong or is incompetent. Sometimes it is unfortunate, but there are poor results to ALL treatments, and that does not equate with incompetence.

Re: sclerosing injections

JohnA on 3/14/03 at 16:37 (112995)

I appreciate all your comments. This doctor has been treating this neuroma for on and off for a couple of years. I have had steroid injections for it in the past. The first series helped for a while. Then it began to become intolerable and we did two more steroid injections. They did not help. I waited for about 6 months and then finally decided to try the alcohol injections. (Did I mention I'm terrified of shots??) The old saying 'ice is nice' is my motto right now.

Re: sclerosing injections

Pauline on 3/14/03 at 18:45 (113016)

Dr. Wander,
If your going to use the word 'WhY' then my question is why don't you accurately read my posting. I never told him to seek an attorney or to sue anyone. You'll not find those words in my post. You misread and add things to what is printed in black & white.

It's easy for you to try and discredit me for saying sclerosing kills nerves but you don't call your peers at footlaw and tell them what they are telling patients on their web site is wrong.

There is no dialog between you and them, so we can hear both sides instead it's just easier for you to call them 'attorneys' equating them with imcompetency.

Why not invite them to debate their terms for sclerosing with you on this site? Peer against peer would be a more even debate.

Re: sclerosing injections

Dr. Z on 3/14/03 at 21:56 (113037)

I have never known a lawyer that will admit he is right. That's why they are called attorney's.

Re: sclerosing injections

marie on 3/15/03 at 01:23 (113053)

I HAVE HAD 7 OF THOSE SAME SHOTS FOR NERUOMAS AND HAVE ALSO BEEN ON MEDROL 6 TIMES IN 2 MONTHS DUE TO THE SWELLING THE SHOTS DID AND AFTER ALL OF THIS DR WILL NOT DO THE SURGERY AND I HAVE BEEN TO NUMEROUS DR'S AND THEY ALL SAY SOMETHING DIFFERENT THE ONLY THING THAT DIDWORK FOR ME IS A FASHIA RELEASER A TYPE OF MASSAGER THAT A CHIROPRACTOR USED ON ME IT DID HELPFOR ABOUT A WEEK OTHER THAN TRYIN NOT TO STAND TOO LONG OR PRETTY MUCH ANYTHING FOR THAT MATTER NOTHING HAS HELPED ME BESIDES THAT I FEEL YOUR PAIN AND I HOPE THAT SOMEDAY SOMEONE COMES UP WITH A BETTER IDEA THAN CUTTING TO MAKE IT BETTER I DO USE KETOPROFEN CREAM AND LIDOCAINE PATCHES AND TRY TO HAVE A LIL HOPE CAUSE IT DOES KIND OF RUIN YOUR LIFE LIVING WITH THE PAIN FOR ME IT DOES AS FOR THE SHOTS IT MADE MY PAIN WORSE AND HAS CAUSED ALOT OF ATRHOPHY GOOD LUCK TO U !!! ~ MARIE

Re: sclerosing injections

Pauline on 3/15/03 at 09:40 (113071)

Dr.Z,
Instead of taking cheap shots, why not debate with your fellow Podiatrist turned attorney's at Footlaw. Perhaps we'd see more than attorney jokes if the dialog wasn't all one sided.

Funny when doctors need their services the jokes suddenly stop. I guess you have to wear a tight shoe before you can appreciate the value of one that fits well.

Re: sclerosing injections

DRZ on 3/15/03 at 10:39 (113074)

Hi

Neuroma pain can be terrible. Keep looking for a doctor to help you. Taking the medrol packet is probaby what caused the atrophy. They are steriod pills

Re: sclerosing injections

Dr. Z on 3/15/03 at 10:42 (113076)

Set up the debate. E-mail them and ask them to our site. I would be very happy to discuss/debate anything with them.

Re: sclerosing injections

Pauline on 3/15/03 at 11:34 (113077)

You do the invite, your the ones discounting their web site, not me. Why not tell them off in front of them instead of behind their backs?

Re: sclerosing injections

Dr. David S. Wander on 3/15/03 at 20:13 (113100)

Pauline,

I don't even know why I respond to any of your postings. You state that I misread your posting, yet you infer that I've attacked or discredited the footlaw website/attorneys, when in fact no such thing occurred. The only reference I made to the site, was in response to your posting. There is no where that I made any negative comments regarding the footlaw site. I don't know where you're debate idea stems from, the footlaw docs and I are not on opposite sides of the fence. I'm a podiatrist, practicing podiatric medicine and surgery and they are podiatrists/attorneys practicing law. They have unique a perspective due to the two degrees they've earned. They have found a niche is providing law services with a specialty in foot/ankle cases. I personally applaud any attorney or agency that prosecutes incompetence, since it is bad for the public and the profession. Remember, bad results do not always equate with malpractice or incompetence.

I wish I was able to understand the bitter and adverserial role you always seem to take. You want a debate of 'us' vs. 'them', though we are not adversaries. Similarly, several months ago when I attempted to warn readers about the calcaneal decompression procedure, instead of being thankful that I brought this to this forum, you were angry that I didn't single handedly begin a national campaign against those performing the procedure. In addition to VOLUNTEERING my time on this site, I also have a practice to run, a family to spend time with, etc.

Understand that all the doc's on this board are expressing his/her opinions based on his/her past experiences. There isn't always a right or wrong answer. Although Dr. Z and I are friends and neighbhors, we've disagreed many times on this forum.

Redirect your anger and bitterness and don't always look for the negatives in everything.

Re: sclerosing injections

Pauline on 3/15/03 at 21:57 (113101)

Dr. Wander,
As Dr. Laura would say you know why you respond to my posts or you wouldn't be doing it.

You assumed that I was not appreciative of your informing us about the calcaneal decompression procedure, simply because I requested more from you. 'To whom much is given, much is expected'. All to often we find medical professionals looking the other way when they could easily clean up sloppiness in their profession. They've got the goods but they don't go public enough to make a difference. If not you than who? It only takes one spark to start a fire and I would hope and trust that if you or any other doctor is witness to incompetencies that they would take the necessary steps to eliminate it. To eliminate all doubt, I trust if such an opportunity arose you would act accordingly.

I greatly appreciate your volunteering your time on this site as much as anyone else who post here, but I wonder why you have the need to wear the word on your sleeve. I'm sure you realize many other busy people also volunteer in various capacities, have families and run businesses too. I assume you like posting or you wouldn't be here. As Dr. Z. says
it's addictive. Perhaps you find it that way too.

As you say there is isn't alway a right or wrong answer and similar to those doc. who post here, perhaps I'm just expressing my opinions based on past experiences as well.

Re: sclerosing injections

BGCPed on 3/16/03 at 13:17 (113130)

May I ask what type of shoes you wear, how old are they, when did you last have your foot measured properly? If you have orthotics?
This may sound dumb but I have had more than a few pt with that issue and they come in wearing shoes that are totally wrong, size, type etc.

In some cases the person will give several injections and not give proper education on footwear. I dress styl shoe with thin or leather sole and a wrong sized toe box can aggravate this condition and in some case be the root cause of it.

When you take of shoes and walk on floor with just socks on or barefoot does it feel better or worse?

Re: Shoes and socks- can cause pain

Dr. Z on 3/16/03 at 13:39 (113133)

So true.

Last nite. I was in a hurry to get out the door. Had a diner reseveration. I put my socks on real fast. I do have a neuroma in my left foot. Well the sock was in the wrong position. Boy in thirty minutes my foot started to kill me.I loosen up the buckle while driving in my car. Still the pain continued. Then I removed my shoe and found that part of my sock was rolled up on the top of my foot pressing on one of the cutaneous nerves. I had to keep my shoe off for one hour for the pain to go away. I knew what it was, I knew I had an neuroma, and still look what happen. Still feel some tingling in my left foot

Re: sclerosing injections

marie on 3/16/03 at 16:47 (113146)

for me it is better not to wear shoes while i am at home i work at ups and wear heavy duty construction steal toe shoes so that i dont drop anything on my foot i trip alot in 1997 500 lbs hit my left foot i wasnt able to wear any shoes for 4 years the only thing that i could wear were ugg boots and a nike running shoe for the last 2 years i havent found anything to comfortable to wear except for merrel slip ons with thick warm socks ; )

Re: Shoes and socks- can cause pain

Dr. David S. Wander on 3/16/03 at 17:56 (113154)

David,

When you said that you put your socks on in the wrong position, I thought maybe you had your socks on OUTSIDE your shoes!! When I get a chance I'll buy you a pair of socks that comes with instructions! Sorry Dave, couldn't resist.

Re: Shoes and socks- can cause pain

DRz on 3/16/03 at 19:56 (113166)

I was hoping you would buy me a few pairs of socks. My birthday is April 11. I like all colors

Re: Shoes and socks- can cause pain

JohnA on 3/17/03 at 17:52 (113243)

It does't seem to matter what kind of shoes I wear. Sneaks cause as much pain as dress shoes. Of course walking barefoot on a tile floor is not good. Things are a little better now that some time has passed. At least it doesn't wake me up as much as it did. My pod is pretty conservative. I'm taking a wait and see position for right now. Although I would like to see those new socks. An aside to Pauline--I'm new to this site, what are you so bitter about? Did you have a surgery that turned out badly or do you work for these lawyers?

Re: sclerosing injections

Kathryn B. on 3/21/03 at 21:13 (113838)

There has never been developed a medical proceedure or medication without risks. Still, most of us are so thankful that we can have an opportunity to try to take these risks with methods of treatment that still have a good chance of helping our conditions where that risk is not terribly high. Medical treatment, even in good doctor's hands, is a gamble. Because doctors are human and medicine is not a perfect science. I am a lawyer. I would never consider a malpractice suit appropriate for generally good medical management that has simply resulted in a poor result in my particular case. When I thought I had a neuroma, I got cortisone injections. I had a bad reaction. So what? They help many people. I would have continued with then trying sclerosing, knowing that there was some risk. If you insist that only perfect medicine is good enough, then God should remain your only physician. Only problem is that He chooses to act in perfect healing a lot less often than he gives human's talents to make human attempts to reduce suffering. My thanks again to all the wonderful doctors who donate their time here.