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About these boards....

Posted by Kathy G on 3/24/03 at 09:25 (114155)

My husband, knowing that I was dismayed by the turn the boards have taken of late, asked me yesterday how they were going. I jokingly told him that next there would be a discussion of abortion, gun control, capital punishment and religion. I neglected to mention racism but that apparently is the next order of business since Ed pretty much runs the boards now and sets the tone.

When I first discovered these boards, two years ago, I was in the throes of early PF, dismayed that I was going to have to give up my job and upset that my condition was dictating the way I lived. The treatment boards, along with the Heel Pain Book, helped me immensely with the physical part of my malady but this board, the SOCIAL/SUPPORT board, was the most helpful to me. Here I found men and women with whom I had one single bond, sore feet that were sometimes debilitating. They understood my frustration and pain and they offered me the support I needed. I didn't want to complain about my feet to my friends and family because I didn't want to become an annoyance but here, I could say exactly how I felt because everyone had been in my position and understood.

As my feet got some better, I discovered an amazing thing. I still came to these boards for the friendship they provided. I truly cared about the people I had met on these boards. They had become friends! I would never have known anyone who lived in New Orleans or Little Rock or England or Sweden had I not come to these boards. I learned about life in other parts of the world and the US. I looked forward to hearing what was going on in other people's lives. I tried to welcome and offer support to new posters and treat them in the same courteous, cordial way in which I had been treated when I first came aboard.

When talk turned to political issues, I mentioned that I was a liberal Democrat, joking that I was one of about ten who lived in NH. At the age of 53, I have learned that I will never change the mind of a single conservative and I wouldn't even try. Besides, at the age of 53, I have also learned that labels serve no purpose. There are very few definites in life. Generalizations are seldom accurate. Nothing is black or white. Ed and I probably would agree on more issues than he thinks. I freely admitted that I was on the fence about the war but starting to think it was the way to go. As time went by, I wasn't totally convinced that we had exercised every avenue of diplomacy but I am, above all, a realist. The troops were over there and they weren't going to be brought back no matter what I personally believed should be done.

This is a Social/Support Board not a Political Discussion Board. I wouldn't dream of going to a party and starting a discussion of politics. It would be neither the time nor the place and I don't believe this discussion is appropriate for these boards. The World Wide Web is huge; there are probably hundreds of thousands of places where you could go and discuss the war. It shouldn't be the over-riding topic of conversation here. This just isn't the proper forum. I wouldn't discuss politics or religion in a social setting and I consider this to be a social setting.

Some people thrive on controversy and enjoy making outrageous statements. Others find it upsetting and yes, are uncomfortable with confrontation and controversy. While I enjoy political debates on a local, state or national level, that is not what I come to these boards for. And I might add, the debates I have attended have always been much more respectful and civil that anything I have seen on these boards.

For me, the boards were a refuge. I never expected to be a person who posted to a message board online and I have been pleasantly surprised by the enjoyment they have provided me. I researched new subjects because of them. I did research on cities, states, and even on moon pies and feather trees because of them. They have been fun!

Now, at a time when the country is at war and we are being bombarded by images of Americans and Iraqis in combat, when most of us need a refuge where we can temporarily forget the horror that is taking place, the boards have been reduced to a shadow of what they once were. A couple of days ago, a woman posted for the first time on the Treatment Board. She sounded upset and totally dismayed at what was happening to her because of PF. In the past, I would have encouraged her to come to this board to vent and find support. I didn't even mention them to her because anyone reading these boards would immediately be put-off by the ugly tone that now prevails. She'd probably be asked what her stand on the war was before anyone would say to her, 'Gee, sorry about your feet, here's what I found helped me....'

Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion and obviously I'm in the minority in believing that what is happening here is inappropriate. I must have missed something but where I come from being social and supportive doesn't mean attacking someone for their politicial views and ethnicity. It appears that there is a contest going on to see just how low you can go.

By the end of the war, Scott can change the name of this board to the Political/Intolerance Board.

Re: About these boards....

pala on 3/24/03 at 09:50 (114165)

kathy g, so glad to see your post. you know, right wing fascists do not have to win here. if folks like you and julie post every once in a while i think you will find that these big bullies are truly little quaking cowards and we will have our board back. in the meantime i will be here holding the turf for the return or decency and sanity and support here. anyway, thank you for you sane and decent post.

Re: About these boards....

pala on 3/24/03 at 09:51 (114166)

or after the jew baiting of last night, maybe we should change the name of this board to hiel schpurs..com

Re: About these boards....

Ed Davis, DPM on 3/24/03 at 09:52 (114167)

Kathy:

You are not in the minority here. The level of 'discussion' on the board is innappropriate. I was encouraged for a while as the quality of discourse appeared to improve. Pala re-entered the board yesterday hurling invectives and I responded accordingly. I played along and baited her, in part, to point out the absurdity of her statements. I need to apologize to you and others for the way I responded.

All I can suggest is that all posters follow a set of reasonable ground rules. Marie, a while back, introduced a good list of 'rules' which I would like to incorporate. It does not look like Marie wants to stand behind those rules though.
Ed

Re: About these boards....

pala on 3/24/03 at 10:01 (114174)

was anti semetic remarks part of those good rules for discourse?

Re: About these boards....

pala on 3/24/03 at 10:03 (114176)

right wing fascists are known to have little imagination ed, by just saying back to me what i just said to you , you further reveal yourself. the mein kampf statement you made last night speaks for itlself.

Re: About these boards....

BGCPed on 3/24/03 at 10:04 (114177)

Ed I would think you would have more luck trying to teach your dog to make lasagna from scratch. Your political beliefs, to me, are very rights oriented. I would guess you to be a bit libertarian. I dont see where some are getting these ideas from. I made a joke yesterday about keeping board safe for conservatives and I got nailed a bit for that.

Nala I dont know you and dont dislike you but I wondered if you really read your stuff? It seems in every post you slam a person for name calling and mean talk. Then you pepper your post with nasty comments and accusations. You often state that others posts are not 'sane' etc.

I just wondered if you care to explain. If you dont no biggie I just wondered

Re: About these boards....

pala on 3/24/03 at 10:11 (114178)

am i nala? yeah i am going to disrupt anti semitism. i get my crazy ideas from the fact that ed taunted a jew with mein kampf. nutty huh? and let me tell you buddy if you aint against meing kampf , if you are supporting ed in this, as you aparrently are, you are an anti semite too.

Re: About these boards....

pala on 3/24/03 at 10:12 (114179)

try to teach a dog bgc? or try to teach a jew dog.?

Re: About these boards....

pala on 3/24/03 at 10:13 (114180)

are you against mien kampf?

Re: About these boards....

marie on 3/24/03 at 10:33 (114185)

Ed,

Thanks I think and no thanks I think.....I think atone at this board has prompted many people to over react to some of the comments made. I was a little upset with Brian's post about joining with you and john to make this a place for conservatives. If he was just joking around than I apologize for over reacting. See I made a list of guidelines for success but I am also human. I can make a mistake understand it and apologize. At no time have I ever insulted or called anyone names and don't plan on making it a habit. I do sometimes try to point out misunderstandings and hope for the best. I tried to respond with some humor to a joke john made on the other board and that was perceived to be a nasty comment. Once again try to read posts with a monotone voice. It is easy to take something written out of context. Are you mad at me because I like Paula for who she is? I like you for who you are.....and beleive me sometimes that's not easy.

Kathy thanks....I think it would be a great idea to make a separate board for politics. The war has everyone on edge. Dr. Ed, John, and Brian are passionate about their beliefs and that's ok......but you are right a tone has been set and I freely admit I have fallen prey to it sometimes. We need to try to funnel our energy elsewhere. Maybe if as many as possible could try to post something positive hear daily. The positive unpolitical posts may take over and prevail. Again thank uou.

marie

Re: About these boards....

john h on 3/24/03 at 10:35 (114187)

Well said Marie.

Re: About these boards....

john h on 3/24/03 at 10:36 (114188)

I am lost with this post Paula?

Re: About these boards....

pala on 3/24/03 at 10:49 (114193)

very simple john, ed engaged in jew baiting last nite. i am a jew. the worst offense was about mein kampf. mein kampf was hitler's book on his plan to exterminate the jews. bgc seemed to be supporting ed in his jew baiting diatriibe. therefore i asked him if he is agianst mein kampf. if is simple. if someone is not against mein kamf, then they are the most virulent anti semetic fascist.

it is a simple question. if bgc wants to support ed in his jew baiting with mein kampf he damn well better know what it is and what he is supporting. he has given no answer yet to my question.

and if they are against mein kampf then are they supportive of using it to bait jews with? same question really. each one will reveal the anti semite behind the right wing patriot. not all right wing patriots are anti semetic john but i've sniffed out at least one here and i think mabe two. consider me a yorkshire terrier on this issue. since bgc called me stupid as a dog.

Re: About these boards....

john h on 3/24/03 at 10:53 (114194)

these inappropriate words about Jews should not even appear on this board and I do not care which side you represent or if your are responding to a comment or not. It just furter lowers the discourse.

Re: About these boards....

pala on 3/24/03 at 10:58 (114196)

i dont' get what you siaed. do you mean the jew baiting remarks or my respense to them?

Re: About these boards....

Sharon W on 3/24/03 at 11:03 (114197)

Pala,

I have read all of your posts in the past couple of weeks and when you started talking about Yiddish and making comments about it, I wondered if you were Jewish or if you had simply grown up with friends who were. (I grew up with friends who were and I understand a fair amount of it, myself, but I have no Jewish blood that I know of.) I have also wondered (as Julie apparently did) whether Dr. Ed might be Jewish -- but I figured, in both cases, that it was your choice whether you chose to share that information with us.

Dr. Ed's remark about Mein Kampf was offensive to me, but I think Dr. Ed probably didn't realize that you were Jewish when he made that remark. It may not have been intended as an anti-Semitic remark, but that was how it sounded to me when I first read it. In fact I read it over again, carefully, to make sure my eyes had not deceived me.

At least Dr. Ed has apologized for making inappropriate remarks.

Sharon
.

Re: About these boards....

pala on 3/24/03 at 11:11 (114200)

the mein kampf remark kicked off a long diatribe of jew baiting remarks by ed when he had been informed in no uncertain terms that i am a jew. but thank you for a reasonable and reasoning post on this issue sharon and it is good of you to make it clear here that you are not an anti semite. i appreciate it.

Re: About these boards....

pala on 3/24/03 at 11:18 (114202)

by the way, when did ed apologize for his jew baiting? i noted he apologized to his friends here for getting caught iin the discussion with me. and i imagine for getting shown for what he is. he also said he was sure other posters here were laughing hysterically at the jew baiting session. i would love to know if that is so and just who those other posters are.

Re: About these boards....

BGCPed on 3/24/03 at 11:27 (114204)

Pala I was not going to even respond to this aspect of your post. Trying to follow some of your posts is like playing connect the dots in a darkroom. If it is sunny where you live I would suggest you go outdoors for a while today. I think you are taking this all to serious

Re: About these boards....

Sharon W on 3/24/03 at 11:30 (114206)

Pala,

These were Dr. ed's words: 'I need to apologize to you and others for the way I responded.' True, his apology was combined with complaints and a defensive explanation, but it was an apology.

I think the comment about other posters laughing hysterically was probably just intended to get you riled up. I know I certainly am not laughing, and I would imagine that most of those who read these recent posts will read them with sadness and dismay, not gleeful laughter.

Sharon
.

Re: About these boards....

pala on 3/24/03 at 11:30 (114207)

yeah, silly me for taking jew baiting seriously.

Re: About these boards....

pala on 3/24/03 at 11:31 (114208)

the last post was a response to bgc

Re: About these boards....

pala on 3/24/03 at 11:36 (114212)

let's hope so sharon so far i see darn little sadness and dismay here. bgc seems tickled pink and john seems to have said i should not respond to jew baiting comments. (altho i have to admit i am not really totally sure what john was saying there and bgc has still not answered my direct question to him if he is against mein kampf) but is it gratifying to see that there are actually a few folks here who decry ed's repulsive behaviour.

Re: About these boards....

Sharon W on 3/24/03 at 11:40 (114214)

Actually I meant that I was saddened and dismayed by ALL of the personal arguments and insults I have seen here recently.

Sharon
.

Re: About these boards....

pala on 3/24/03 at 11:43 (114215)

thanks for the clarification. my post still stands as i stated it, however.

Re: About these boards....

john h on 3/24/03 at 11:54 (114218)

Paula I do not think either right or left represents any anti semitism. Anti Semites comes from all walks of life. One of my internet friends is an Israeli Air Force Officer who is on duty in Israel. I think the way we seem to judge people on this board he is about as far right as you can get in defense of Israel. I think as a military policy and philosopy that Israel will never be over run by the Arab states. It is generally accepted the Jews would destroy the entire Mideast before being run out of their lands. Much of the troubles in the Mideast and in particular the hatred of the Americans stems from our support of Israel. You could make a good case that the war in Iraq is a result of our support of Israel. More recently we are trying to balance our support between Palestein and Israel but in the Arab world we are very much perceived as supporters of Israel. Generally speaking the people of Israel support this war with Iraq according to all polls. Being a Jew, I am supprise at your staunch anti war position. Dr. Zuzkerman does not post here much but I think he very much supports the U.S position. I have many Jewish friends and work for a Jewish family. They all support this war. Perhaps you can inform me from a Jewish perspective why you would not support a war against Saddam. How would leaving Saddam in power advance the Jewish cause in the Mideast?..

Re: About these boards....

Kathy G on 3/24/03 at 11:58 (114221)

I don't wish to spam him but maybe we could all ask Scott to set up a Political Board? His address is (email removed) I already asked him a couple of weeks ago but he said he'd wait to see how things are going.

Just a thought....enjoy it, I don't have them often!

Re: About these boards....

Scott R on 3/24/03 at 12:02 (114222)

I don't have time to moderate and oversee things like i used to. If i get more emails about political discussions, I may come through hacking messages left and right like a whirlwind. Social support is for misc stuff for the heelspurs.com message board community. I think a seperate board for political is too much.

Re: About these boards....

pala on 3/24/03 at 12:03 (114223)

i really cannot answer any post here about my jewishness or my stances on israel on this baord after ed said the things he did to me last night about these issues. i am not in the habit of engaging in such discussions after being jew baiteed vcisuosly by ed on this board. i can however say that i will speak up against jew baiting remarks here. and it would have been nice if you had done so as well, before asking me such questions. i love isreal. read what ed said to me about that last night john.

Re: About these boards....

Kathy G on 3/24/03 at 12:07 (114224)

Thanks for the response, Scott. I certainly understand your position and I once again thank you for making this site available to us.

See, I knew it was bad for me to think!!

Re: About these boards....

Sharon W on 3/24/03 at 12:10 (114225)

John,

You made a good point, about anit-Semitism not depending on what political party a person is from. My sister (the one who died a couple of months ago) was about as far left as anyone can go. She always voted a straight Democratic party ticket. I register Republican so that I can vote in the primaries, but I don't vote a party line -- I vote for whoever I agree with most and whoever I think will do the best job. We could talk to each other about just about anything, EXCEPT the Palestinian/Israeli issue. We avoided that subject because it always seemed to lead to an argument.

Irene, the liberal Democrat, believed that the country of Israel should never have been created, and she believed that the solution for all the problems our country has with Arab anger over the Palestinian issue should be resolved by forcing all Israelis to return to whatever countries their families had come from, and turning all of Israel over to the Palestinians. I believe that Israel has a right to exist and I hope they will some day be able to live in peace with their Arab neighbors.

Sharon
.

Re: About these boards....

john h on 3/24/03 at 12:14 (114226)

Paula: I do not think it necessry that any of us have to 'prove' we are not an anti Semite any more than we should have to prove we are not racist or some other evil thing. I start with the presumption that people are basically good until proven different. This brings to mind an experience I had as a child living in Florida. I am dark skinned and living on the beach day in and day out I was very very dark. I was often asked to leave the beach (1940's) because people thought I was black. I was about 9 years old. My Aunt was married to a Jewish Psychatrist in NYC. My father was dead and my Aunt and Uncle sort of raised me. I lived on Flatbush Avenue in Brooklyn on the grounds of the Brooklyn State Mental Hospital. My cousin attended Erasmus Hall. I never remember any problem at all about my family being Jewish although I was young and may not have noticed. I really never thought about it one way or the other. Anyway, I have serious doubts anyone on this board is a racist or anti Semite and I would not be quick to label them as such. It just leads to unnecessary stress..

Re: RIP - no political board

Sharon W on 3/24/03 at 12:26 (114229)

I'm sorry to hear that. I thought a political board might be the ideal solution to the situation that has erupted here. Then, those who like to discuss politics could do so -- and those who are offended by political discussion could avoid the political board altogether.

Of course, I've noticed that people seem to always post social remarks on other boards, and occasionally vice versa -- so having a separate political board might not make any difference anyway.

Sharon
.

Re: About these boards....

pala on 3/24/03 at 12:50 (114232)

in my book they darn well better prove they are not anti semetic if they are jew baiting or if they are apologizing for jew baiters or if they are supporting jew baiting here. or if they see jew baiting right in front of their eyes and then start equivicating about it. or if they are stunningly making mein kampf statements to jews. you gonna throw mein kampf around here, your gonna explain what the hell you are trying to say , if i have any thing to say about it. and i'll alwyas have something to say about it.

Re: About these boards....

john h on 3/24/03 at 13:27 (114236)

Paula: America is surely the greatest friend the Israel has ever had and if required would defend them with our military. The same guys fighting in Iraq would be the same guys who without question would defend Israel. We suuport Israel economically, provide them with the latest weapons for defense, and are in fact their best friends. If you are going to take issue with everyone on the board because you have become offended and come to some conclusion we are all anti Semites you are very much mistaken. I do not need to prove this to you or anyone. If you are making veiled accusations that I am some sort of anti Semite you are barking up the wrong tree and I resent it. If Israel needed my help I would gladly come to their aid with my life.. I also support some way to resolve the Palestein situation. Both the Palestein and Israel have radicals and somehow the killing has to be stopped.

Re: About these boards....

BGCPed on 3/24/03 at 13:37 (114240)

The reason I didnt adress your question about mein kampf is that it was irrelevant. You dont really care what I think about it you just seem to want to stay angry and drag people into your mud pit. I judge people, races and religions as they conduct themselves.
I am fair and I dont think any group of people deserves any special consideration just because. I also have high expectations of people and groups. If they dont play by the rules of common decency then I think they should get called on it.
I really think you should relax and go open a window and listen to some birds.
Let mw ask you this. Was Israel right and just in bombing the neuc reactor that France was building for them?
Should Iraqi lives be dictated by hollywood elite and idiots like Michael Moore, that dont have the stones to go over THERE and stir up any crap.
This may be dub asking you these questions but what the hell

Re: About these boards....

Ed Davis, DPM on 3/24/03 at 14:03 (114243)

Pala:
You are the only one who has made anti-semitic remarks here. Your ability to distort the truth is nothing short of amazing.
Ed

Re: About these boards....

john h on 3/24/03 at 14:12 (114244)

BG: sort of a new subject concerning tactics. Over the past 24 hours we lost a couple of helcopters south of Bagdad where the 3rd Army Division is moving. They were brought down by small arms fire. In Desert Storm we bombed the Republican Guard Division until they had no fight or could not resist. I cannot imagine sending in helicopters into a heavily armed Republican Guard Divsion. This division is out in the open and very vulnerable to bombing. They should bomb this division until not a blade of grass is standing before risking tanks, people, or aircraft. It may take 3 weeks of bombing but it can be done. The Republican Guard Divsion is not mixed in with civilians so that should not be a problem. We have unmanned Preditors who can survey this area without using manned helicopters. I hope we are not having some interservice rivalary going on here trying to get the Army in there first. They need to clear this area with aircarft and missiles before exposing the troops or helicopters. Seems like a good area to get that 20,000 daisy cutter in there if a slow flying C-130 could get in that close. A number of qustions have been directed at some of the retired Generals on the TV shows concering this tactic. One of them said he did not understand why we did not use a Preditor to do what the helicopters were doing. I bet there is some re thinking this tactic.

Re: The "Big Lie"

Ed Davis, DPM on 3/24/03 at 14:13 (114245)

BG:

It is amazing to see how Pala and a few cohorts can take virtually any statement, distort it completely and turn it into a personal attack.

I have, intentionally, not discussed my religion because the ideas I have expressed are not tied to a specific religion.

Individuals who scream 'anti-semitism' or 'racism' every time someone disagrees with them do more to harm the cause of race relations and inter-religious tolerance than anyone.

It just so happens that I am Jewish and two thirds of my family was murdered by Hitler. So the 'anti-semitic' remarks of Pala and Julie are not only bogus but ridiculous. I have convictions and principles based on Judeo-Christian ethics and morality but do not feel that I need to use religiosity as a weapon to bash others. Pala and Julie lay claim to be Jewish and i don't dispute the veracity of that claim. I do have to wonder about the fact that they espouse ideologies at variance with that of the Jewish religion.
Ed

Re: About these boards....

Ed Davis, DPM on 3/24/03 at 14:16 (114246)

BG:
Isn't it amazing how Pala can come up with a spurious accusation, repeat it over and over again, pretending it is the truth, then build an entire diatribe around it. Hitler called that technique, 'the big lie.'
Ed

Re: About these boards....

Ed Davis, DPM on 3/24/03 at 14:24 (114247)

John:

The only one who has engaged in 'jew baiting' here has been Pala, with some help from Julie. Pala basically manufactured this issue, pulling words out of context and has proceeded with a ridiculous diatribe on this issue of her creation.

I see little consistency between the views espoused by Pala and Julie and their claim to Judaism. Most Israelis are in favor of our action in Iraq.
In fact, Israelis have had to obtain gas masks, create safe rooms and have basically lived in a state of near terror due to concerns about Saddam using WMD. Our military action has contributed greatly to lessening the chances of an attack on Israel by Saddam. We sent special forces into western Iraq early on to prevent an attack on Israel from Saddam. Pala and Julie oppose our action and can give no rational explaination for doing so.

I am Jewish and lost about 2/3 of my relatives in WW2 and could have only hoped and prayed that a man like Bush would have been around at that time.
Now, who is really anti-semitic?
Ed

Re: About these boards....

john h on 3/24/03 at 14:27 (114248)

A sign seen in a recent demonstration in San Francisco: 'We support our troops who kill their officers'! Sort of unbelievable. Even if you are against the war would you want to march in a parade with someone with such a sign. A new issue that is emerging is that the demonstrations in particular ones that block highways and bridges are taking an enormous amount of assets away from homeland security. This is the type of problem that when exercising your right to free speech you have to make choices and their are consequences. It is just not a simple matter of exercising your right.

Re: About these boards....

Ed Davis, DPM on 3/24/03 at 14:43 (114250)

Pala:
'a long diatribe of Jew baiting remarks by ed....'
Name one other than the item you took completely out of context and twisted.
Ed

Re: About these boards....

BGCPed on 3/24/03 at 14:50 (114254)

I know there seems to be some re-thinking in order. Those daisy cutters are big time. I think maybe to get in there asap they let their guard down. They need to realize they are dealing with slimy forces. Guys that will wave surrender then attack, dress like farmers. I saw their diplomat on tv today claiming how they will and are treating prisoner well and would not think of anything different.

But the video was a violation of geneva and all the guys that got caught last time in 91 claimed they were beat. There was a femal crew member that crashed. I think she broke her leg or arm and while being drivin back in the bed of a truck she said an iraqi soldier tried to feel her up, pretty romantic eh? real class for a soldier.

I think they need to slow down a few days and use some of that push button and shock/awe stuff left over from the first night. I think what we will find in the near future is that we are AGAIN playing too nice. While it is needed to convience the parts of the world that hate us anyway, that we are being careful. I think we will need to obliterate as many of them as soon as possible. Saddam wil remain since he prob survived that bomb. He has remained by terror since most of the people there hate him.

It may sound bad but from a strategic point I kind of hope they fight longer and harder. I dont want to see our guys get hurt but the longer we go maybe Franks will get p o'ed enough and unleash on them. That would result in killing as many of the hardcore ones as possible. The less of them around when rebuilding starts the better. Cutting the snakes head is great but you may as well fillet the rest of it just to make sure

Re: About these boards....

marie on 3/24/03 at 14:50 (114255)

I understand Scott but you can't blame us for trying. Maybe someone could find a message board or two that caters to their point of veiw politically and post it here.

marie

Re: About these boards....

Mason on 3/24/03 at 14:52 (114256)

Ed: Not that I take pleasure in focusing on the trivial, but I think BGC.Ped. is too caught up in Hollywood celebrities to be answering your question about Hitler. I have been reading here for a while, and I think this is not the first time you have brought up Hitler and 'the big lie,' using it, to my mind, as an unsubtle and unworthy accusation.

Perhaps I am wrong, but today I'm getting the impression that you think Julie, Pala, and probably other Jews who are not bloodthirsty to kill Arabs are betraying their heritage. This is the kind of thinking that has had Israel and other Middle East areas in a vicious circle of bloodshed for years and years. Someone posted some 'Think' advice here, I believe earlier today, and I suggest that you, and especially others who may not be so narrow-minded, consider it.

Re: The "Big Lie"

BGCPed on 3/24/03 at 15:09 (114265)

I saw a comment that only Jews can make comments or use terms like 'Jew'. I guess you are safe to use the term by that ruling.

Re: About these boards....

BGCPed on 3/24/03 at 15:12 (114267)

Hey Mason, do you know if there is a website where I can find out what Brittney Spears and Abe Vigoda think we should do in Iraq?

Also did you read the link to the Michael Moore article at the top?

Re: The "Big Lie"

pala on 3/24/03 at 15:15 (114268)

so what, members of hitler's family were jewish. and even you would have to admit that he was the biggest jew baiter of them all . i would still like to know why you baited and taunted me with mein kampf and what you meant when you said i can cut a paste from mein kampf. you bring out the filthiest dirtiest material like mein kampf, shove it in my face and then blame this mess on me. you are despicable.

Re: The "Big Lie"

pala on 3/24/03 at 15:16 (114269)

and your apologists here claiming to be jewish as well?

Re: The "Big Lie"

pala on 3/24/03 at 15:18 (114270)

and everyone here who supports your flinging mein kampf in my face and waiting a full day before saying members of your family are jewish are also despicable. and also jew baiting.

Re: The "Big Lie"

pala on 3/24/03 at 15:22 (114271)

you are seriously disturbed ed, you need professional help immediately.

Re: The "Big Lie"

pala on 3/24/03 at 15:23 (114272)

you and your cohorts seem to think this was a very amusing joke. which is the perhaps the most telling sign of all.

Re: The "Big Lie"

pala on 3/24/03 at 15:26 (114273)

but i'm still peeling the reeking metaphorical pages of mein kampf off my face.

Re: The "Big Lie"

pala on 3/24/03 at 15:32 (114274)

i despise facsists, nazis, jew baiters, anti semites, and mein kampf. and i am proud to say this all the live long day. as much as some of you hate to hear it.

Re: About these boards....

john h on 3/24/03 at 15:33 (114276)

Mason: I read your post regularly. Sometimes you use and perhaps many of use words that immediately detract from a post and almost immediately put the reader in a defensive position.Your words 'bloodthirsty to kill Arabs' to me would be one of those turnoffs. You could have made your point much better and maybe kept your reader more receiptive without pressing hot buttons. Factually there are Arabs that want to kill Jews and do not want the state of Israel to exist. There are Jews who want to kill Arabs. Most nations and people act in their own self interest. It would not stretch the immagination at all to think that Israel might want the English/Americans to win this war.It is in there self interest. After all Israel bombed the French built nuclear plant out of existence in Iraq. Arabs for their part in particular the people on the street just wish Israel was not there. I think this is just the plain facts of the situation. No one has been able to solve this Democrat or Republican and no real solution is in sight. Bush has somehow got Arafat to appoint an Prime Minister in order to try and start some sort of dialog but as long as certain groups such as Hammas exist who will not recognize the right of Israel to exist there. will be continued killings on both sides. Even referring to whoever you are referring to as being 'narrow minded' detracts from your points no matter how well you present your proposition. How we have recently got off to some tangent about anti semitism or racism I do not know. I seriously doubt we have a racist or anti Semite on this board and continue discussions on these issues just lead to hurt feelings. You note Julie is a Jew. I did not know and do not care as I have always enjoyed her post and enjoyed her as a person. We disagree on some things and recoginze we have those differences. We never resort to calling each other names and for my part we remain friends.

Re: The "Big Lie"

john h on 3/24/03 at 15:46 (114278)

Paula: . You see enemies where they do not exist. You read things into post that are not there. You see racist and anti Semites where they do not exist. Take a deep breath and go out and enjoy some sunshine. Vist some friends and get this off your chest. This is just an internet board. You do not have to like or associate with anyone here. For those people you do not like just do not read their post. No one here makes world policy or decides anything in you life. Think of me what you may. I hope you can find happiness.

Re: Ed: for heaven's sake!

Julie on 3/24/03 at 17:03 (114284)

.

Re: To Mason

Julie on 3/24/03 at 17:14 (114285)

Many thanks, Mason, for your post to Ed. I've no intention of responding to his extraordinary slash at me (and Paula) about 'bogus anti-semitic remarks' - it speaks for itself. But it's good you've picked him up on Hitler and the big lie.

It was I who asked, earlier today, that people Think. What I meant was that I hoped people here who are not aware of the real agenda of the rightwing fanatics in the government, should think. I didn't, and don't, expected the rightwing fanatics on this board to think.

Re: The "Big Lie"

pala on 3/24/03 at 17:18 (114287)

john, i'm happy. but i'd be ecstatic if a right wing hawk woud have another hate filled, ranting, incoherent apoplectic fit at the word hawk in between hilariious mein kampf capers. just before your fit, you go sit in the sun. i don't need any advice from the likes of you how to live my life.

Re: The "Big Lie"

Ed Davis, DPM on 3/24/03 at 17:43 (114294)

Pala:
I am sorry to hear that you despise yourself because you are everything on the list you just provided. My assessment of you as a self-hating Jew was quite accurate.
Ed

Re: About these boards....

Ed Davis, DPM on 3/24/03 at 17:46 (114295)

BG:
I have asked Pala the same questions you have asked several times but without a response. She has no desire to discuss circumstances but focuses her entire argument on character assasination.
Ed

Re: About these boards....

Ed Davis, DPM on 3/24/03 at 17:53 (114300)

John and BG:
It seems that we are making a huge effort to avoid civilian casualties.
That is admirable but hope that by limiting use of fire power under certain circumstances, we are not placing our troops in greater danger.
Ed

Re: Goodwin's Law

Mahatmelissama on 3/24/03 at 18:02 (114301)

http://members.tripod.com/~goodwin_2/law.html

May I remind you all of Goodwin's law? (Or let you know about it if you don't know?)

I ain't going to read through this whole thread...my stomach can't handle it, it is a bit rough and bumpy going down.

I don't know who brought up the Hitler thing and I DON'T CARE WHO DID.

Just end it, everyone, will ya'?

For the record, I grew up a Liberal and now am a conservative. There are valid paths in both viewpoints and America needs both.

Times are tough right now and everyone's emotions are high.

As Rodney King would say...

.............................

..............................

............................

YOU FILL IN THE BLANKS! ;)

-Mahat'mother-hen'Melissa

Re: About these boards....

Ed Davis, DPM on 3/24/03 at 18:20 (114304)

Everyone I know except you is against it Pala.
Ed

Re: About these boards....

john h on 3/24/03 at 18:21 (114305)

As a matter of fact Ed we do increase the casualities among our troops by the big effort to protect civilians. We have had a numer of incidents where Iraqui came out with white flags to surrender and them pulled out their AK's to inflict casualities. This is against Geneva Convention rules.Since much of the Iraqi Leadership is hiding among the civilians it will increase the casualities when we finally do have to go into Bagdad hand to hand. This may be the first war in history to be fought on this level. Iraqi soldiers are now dressing as civilians and in U.S. Military outfits. They have different morals than we do and fight by a very different set of rules. I must add however, if the U.S. or any nation finds itself in a positon to lose you forget all the rules. That is the way of war. We have never had sucicide bombers. It is not part of our culture. I still expect to see the use of chemical weapons when the going gets tough in Bagdad and I will not be surprised to see Saddam use them on his own people and try and blame it on Americans. I am not sure why we have not taken out the Bagdad TV as Saddam uses it quiet effectively for his propagand purposes.

Re: About these boards....

Ed Davis, DPM on 3/24/03 at 18:22 (114306)

Pala:
You have not taken Jew baiting seriously. You have made a mockery of it.
Ed

Re: About these boards....

Ed Davis, DPM on 3/24/03 at 18:25 (114309)

Pala:
Lets get a few things straight. Mein Kampf is not your autobiography but that of your hero. So don't take it personally.
Ed

Re: The "Big Lie"

john h on 3/24/03 at 18:28 (114310)

Ed: We are generally on the same page with politics and war but I am not on the same page with you on the phrase 'self hating Jew'. We really need to get ethnicity out of all this. I do not know how it ever got into the threads. I do not care who is a Jew,Christan, or atheist around here and I do not judge them. I may challenge them and disagree with them on issues but let us all get back to some sense of decorum. We all need to settle down and be civil as best we can. I am not without my warts but let us give it a go..

Re: The "Big Lie"

Ed Davis, DPM on 3/24/03 at 18:28 (114311)

Pala:
You have just insulted my family members, most of whom you realize suffered at the hand of Hitler. That makes you little better than the author of Mein Kampf.
Ed

Re: The "Big Lie"

john h on 3/24/03 at 18:33 (114314)

Pala: I am glad you do not need any advice from the likes of me. I will pay you my best compliment Pala and henceforth not respond to your ranting. You need some serious help.

Re: this board

Ed Davis, DPM on 3/24/03 at 18:41 (114315)

John:

That is not a phrase that I have coined. It is used by a number of individuals to describe those with an identity crisis, one that is significant enough to cause one to deny basic religious tenets.

I agree that we need to put this whole thing to rest. Although Pala's vile criticism of my family who she does not even know strikes close to home.

I will, at this time, try to refrain from answering Pala's posts. Although, if this board is to survive, we need to be able to post without her acting as a heckler. I am dissapointed that those who have positioned themselves as moderates have egged her on as opposed to trying to re-center the discussion board. It seems that a reasonable thing to do is to agree to a set of rules that we all abide by and are willing to enforce irrespective of the political bent of the rule breaker. I am dissapointed that there has been little response to this suggestion and would like to hear from others with any suggestions they would like to put forth to re-establish some civility here.
Ed

Re: To Mason

john h on 3/24/03 at 18:41 (114316)

Let us nail down the 'right wing fanatics' and name them. We might be better served to have two boards. One for Right Wing Fanatics and one for left wing idealogs. Then we could all go to our appropriate board and not be upset by one another. Why do we come to this forum to call each other names? What is in it for each of us? Do we feel better? Do we like making each other feel bad? Does anyone think any of us can change the others mind? I think a real smart person would just vanish from the current dialog until it straightens itself out. then i am not so smart. I may smarten up tomorrow.or maybe the next day. in the meantime I will make ever effort not to be mean and call people names.

Re: About these boards....

Sharon W on 3/24/03 at 18:44 (114317)

The McNiell Lehrer report just said that they are putting civillians in front after giving them guns, followed by the Iraqui special forces types (I'm not going to try to spell that!), followed by another rank of troops. The special forces types LOOK like civillians because they wear street clothing and pretend they are civillians.

This is sounding more and more like what friends I talked to after Viet Nam described... I must really be horrible for our soldiers, trying to figure out who the enemy is.

Sharon

Re: The "Big Lie"

marie on 3/24/03 at 18:46 (114319)

Oh my! Oh my,my. How did a conversation about the tone of these boards turn into this? Shame on all of you that have participated. Ed sometimes the things that come out of your fingertips. Honestly. Ihave been here long enough to know that sometimes your posts are a little off but you are better than this. Come on lets all consider taking John's advice and find a new coversation. Oh my! Ed I still enjoy talking to you so lets give it a go. I am about ready to create a board just so you all can go there and bicker endlessly...amzingly enough even when you're on the same side. Hmmmmm let me think about it.

marie

Re: this board

marie on 3/24/03 at 18:48 (114320)

Ed that's a great idea. This is the Ed I know.

marie

Re: this board

john h on 3/24/03 at 18:51 (114322)

Ed: When I find people getting completely out of touch with reality I just ignore them and will try to do so now. When I say getting out of touch with reality I do not mean people who disagree with me or have very opposing views. I will gladly argue my point of view but once the name calling starts no meaningful dialog can take place. Some of the generalities made here about Democrats,Republicans,Right Wing,Left Wing,Hawks, etc show a lack of understanding of the subject and issues...

Re: this board

Ed Davis, DPM on 3/24/03 at 18:57 (114325)

Marie:
You had some great ground rules a couple weeks ago. Perhaps you can build on those. There must be some 'teeth' to the rules: First, a request that the violator stop. Importantly everyone should stand behind the same rules. Second, should the violator not stop, he/she be asked to leave voluntarily. Third, should the violator not comply, we ask Scott R. to block his/her IP address. Fourth, if that does not work, we inform the leader of North Korea that the violator has criticized his haircut and provide coordinates for the violator to be targeted by a Scud missile.
Ed

Re: To Mason

marie on 3/24/03 at 19:03 (114327)

You go john.

Re: this board

marie on 3/24/03 at 19:16 (114329)

OK now your making me laugh. And I mean that in a funny way. Maybe we need a moderator at this board. Scud missiles may be a little extreme. You and Paula definately have your differences. I couldn't even follow either of your posts. To be honest I think it's plain and simple ya'll don't like each other so here's some advice......don't talk to each other.
Sorry I am still not mad at you Ed...still like ya...still like paula. I'm still going to do my best to converse with you both. I try to find the best in people but it's been hard today.

we all need some sunshine. Ahhhh.....nice relaxing sun. birds chirping in the distance. The sound of the trees gently rustling in the cool breeze. Ahhhhhhhhhhh I'm doing my best to send some mello vibes....mello vibes....mello vibes. Yes I can handle this.

Re: For Dr. Ed - Rules for discussion

Sharon W on 3/24/03 at 19:25 (114335)

Dr. Ed,

I am responding to your comment, 'It seems that a reasonable thing to do is to agree to a set of rules that we all abide by and are willing to enforce irrespective of the political bent of the rule breaker. I am dissapointed that there has been little response to this suggestion and would like to hear from others with any suggestions they would like to put forth to re-establish some civility here.'

I've been trying to suggest something like that for weeks and have gotten absolutely nowhere with it. At this point I'm convinced that we could never all agree on a set of 'rules' for civil discussion, anyway. Scott is the only one who could enforce such 'rules,' even if we DID all agree on them, and it looks like he isn't interested.

Without an agreement for self-restraint, I think John h has the right idea: to avoid inflammatory arguments, just don't read ANY of the posts written by a heckler or anyone else who makes you mad enough to want to say something hurtful back to them. If we all do the same, then posters who seem to be completely out of control will be consoled for a while by those few posters who applaud what they're doing and agree with them. The hecklers and their supporters will probably write some very long threads about how mean others have been to them, how they really showed those meanies that they can't beat up on people who know what's what and who the bads guys are on this board, etc. etc. But their diatribes would be harmless, completely unable to annoy the rest of us, because of course, we wouldn't be reading it!!

I DON'T blame all of this chaos on you. Most of your comments have been respectful and considerate and well thought out. But there have been times when you'd been provoked (or personally insulted), and you got angry in response, answering with too-hasty retorts. You do have an uncanny ability to say whatever will really get someone's goat. But I know what that is like. There have been quite a few times when I've really seen red -- times when I have even sat here and composed an angry, very mean response -- then read it over and erased it without posting. Fortunately, I ALMOST always manage to restrain myself...

Anyway, that is the only solution I can see: just don't read their posts!

Sharon

Re: About these boards....

Leon S. on 3/24/03 at 19:31 (114338)

What the hell happened here? I was away from my computer for a couple of days and I thought that I would catch up on things. I started reading these posts and I can't believe what's going on. Where did this anti-semitism business come from? I read alot of the posts and I saw some ridiculous comments relating to anti-semitic accusations but I can't believe that anyone here is truly anti-semitic. These are serious times and these boards should not only be an outlet for some personal thoughts but should also serve as a refuge or escape from some of the bad news, My approach to posting here is that it is a fun way of expressing opinions and sharing ideas. Some of us have got to lighten up a little...on both sides of the fence...If the devisiveness continues this way, it means that the enemy has won. People that have different ideas should not be branded. Different is different, not wrong...on either side.

Re: The "Big Lie"

Leon S. on 3/24/03 at 19:46 (114343)

Pala & Ed, Hey guys...I just read this stuff and it is way out of line. Let's all take a deep breath and lighten up here.

Re: The "Big Lie"

pala on 3/24/03 at 20:25 (114352)

my family suffered under hitler as well. don't think you can get away with originating mein kampf statements to me and then hide behind family members who suffered under hitler . you want to play your family's suffering under hitler against mine, ? that is beyond repulsive. your shame knows no bounds. you are the one who brought up mein kampf and rubbed my face in it. you are a liar and a coward. and now i also think you are psychotic

it is even more horrible on your part that you had family members in the holocaust. and you did that to me. that alone proves you are very sick and very evil.

what did you mean when you started this and said to me i should cut and paste from mien kampf ed?

and what did you mean when you said other posters are laughing hysterically becuase i got upset when you hurled that disgusting mein kampf crap at me.?

Re: The "Big Lie"

pala on 3/24/03 at 20:34 (114354)

it is all very good ed, to call for civil discussion right after you said that i am as bad as hitler and that i authored mein kampf. i had to relpy to that post.

i think civility would be great. i am the original liberal who begged for civil talk here for months at the hands of the right wing attackers. now i play their game. if they want to back off then i will too. i would love a warm, supportive, human, civil board here like we had before ed and cohorts started this.

Re: About these boards....

BGCPed on 3/24/03 at 20:46 (114356)

Good point John. I think your observations regarding the lack of honor in the Iraqi military. Once again we expect a lawless group to act within the rules. Again we are playing nice and paying for it with casualties. I dont know if they should hammer the tv staion as i am sure the can if they want to. May want to save it for a few days when we can have a change of program format. It is also usful to have video footage available for any war crime down the road imho.
John with your background do you think if they keep playing dirty we will unleash on them soon?

Re: cvility

pala on 3/24/03 at 20:47 (114357)

i would absolutely love this board to be civil again and for nancy s and nancy n and julie to be able to stand being here and posting often. i would love this place to be the great emotionally supportive board it was when they were here. i much preferred that to ed and company's attacking tactics. if any one has more ideas how we can get back to where we were a couple of months ago and how we can get those wonderful people back here on a regular basis, i would be so grateful.

Re: The "Big Lie"

Ed Davis, DPM on 3/24/03 at 20:52 (114358)

Pala:

Unfortunately, insults lead to more insults. I am willing to call it quits if you are willing to do the same.

Let me reword the post that really got you going yesterday:
It does not matter how extreme the view being posted, there is room for all opinions as long as personalities and personal attacks are left out.
My sentence, using hyperbole, existed to illustrate that the words or writings of Mao, Marx or even Hitler can be posted, irregardless of how extreme and disagreeable they may be without assigning blame to another poster nor invoking the name of the poster in a derogatory way, let alone name calling. Again, the purpose of this is to separate history, events, philosophies- good or bad from the individual discussing such entities.
Ed

Re: cvility

pala on 3/24/03 at 20:59 (114360)

i have always thought that some of the great people who left here in disgust because of what this baord was turned into, were reading and watching and waiting for a civil change here.. and julie coming back today verified that i was right, at least that they may be watching. i think they will all come back if people here will be nice to each other.

Re: The "Big Lie"

BGCPed on 3/24/03 at 20:59 (114361)

John, you thought flying choppers in the dark was tough

Re: cvility

Sharon W on 3/24/03 at 21:00 (114362)

Pala,

I think you're probably right about that. It might take a while, though...

Sharon
.

Re: For Dr. Ed - Rules for discussion

Ed Davis, DPM on 3/24/03 at 21:01 (114363)

Sharon:

I apologize for not acknowleging your prior suggestion. It seemed that things were going fairly well for the last couple weeks. The current state of discord is only two days old and was initiated by a 'dove' re-entering the board gun a-blazing. Anyway, with the expectation of new individuals entering the board, your ideas need to be revisited.
Ed

Re: Goodwin's Law

BGCPed on 3/24/03 at 21:09 (114364)

Mahat that is interesting. I am curious if you care to explain why you changed political parties. I am always curious as to what can change something in a person that is usually a very strong belief.

Re: About these boards....

john h on 3/24/03 at 21:24 (114367)

I think we do not or will not intentionally play dirty however by the mere fact that some Iraquis have come out with a white flag only to bring out their weapons will now make our soldiers very cautious. It is going to make it tough for those who really want to surrender. If they get into fighting in the streets of Bagdad it is a different war altogether. You tend to have people from your own side shooting at you and you cannot tell the good guys from the bad guys. I think back to Vietnam when I got scared ever time I saw some woman or young child running at me in Saigon. You just did not know who was going to throw a granade at you, Saddam will mix his soldiers in with the civilians and it will really be a tough go if it comes to that. You can get a good idea how it would be by looking back at some of the old WW II news movies of the allies fighting there way though the cities block by block with troop and tanks. I think I have read that in street fighting in cities the casualty rate jumps by a factor of 5 or 10 compared to fighting in the field. Black Hawk down also depicts very much what it is like. I do not think it is a matter of fighting dirty bt a matter of survival. Yours or his.

Re: Happy Time Please

marie on 3/24/03 at 21:26 (114368)

Somewhere lost in this mess I made a suggestion. It got lost and I can't find it. Way too much stuff to go through.

If we all started posting a positive comment every day then eventually this board will be over run by kindness. Trust me on this one.

And of course if ya don't want to that's ok .

marie

Re: About these boards....

BGCPed on 3/24/03 at 21:30 (114371)

Thanks for the insight, hope it doesnt get to that.

Re: About these boards....

marie on 3/24/03 at 21:38 (114373)

Don't worry Leon. I've been here and I'm not sure how this happened either.

We need to laugh a little more.

marie

Re: For Dr. Ed - Rules for discussion

pala on 3/24/03 at 21:41 (114376)

is that how you are going to be civil ed? the dove didnt start this. but i tell you what. in the spirit of civility, i'll let that last nastiness of yours go by without going into details. you get the last jibe ed. now, ed, if you would like to start the civility you called for here, i would like nothing more.

Re: this board

john h on 3/24/03 at 21:47 (114378)

Ok Marie you like ED and Pala. What about me? I have never had so many labels put on me in my life. I am beginning to not even like myself. I told my wife that I a a right wing hawk war monger racist biggot.I had to go look in the mirror to see if Satin was looking back at me. Where is the prozac when you need it?

The only other board I particiapte on is a sports football board. Two days ago someone posted some polital deal and would you believe it is headed down the same road we have been traveling. I cannot take this all over again so I will just wait until football season starts and return.

Re: Happy Time Please

Sharon W on 3/24/03 at 22:00 (114381)

Marie,

The idea of us all trying to get along IS a happy thought!

Sharon

Re: For Dr. Ed - Rules for discussion

Ed Davis, DPM on 3/24/03 at 22:28 (114383)

Pala:
Take a look at this board over the last two weeks. Then take a look at it for the last two days. What changed in the last few days? Don't reply but just think about it. I will say nothing more and ask you do do the same, but lets both think about what changed and leave it at that for now.

Okay, I will say nothing more that could be considered uncivil or that begs a reply. I will continue to post my views on events and the current situation and you should feel welcome to do the same. We are both observers of the world but with different perspectives. We can both talk about our perspectives without involving us, other posters specifically or involving personalities.
Ed

Re: North Korea

Ed Davis, DPM on 3/24/03 at 22:32 (114384)

Can't I get anyone to agree that the North korean dictator has a really bad haircut.
Ed

Re: North Korea

BGCPed on 3/24/03 at 23:12 (114386)

yep looks like a bowl kind of. that would have got you some heat on my schoolbus

Re: For Dr. Ed - Rules for discussion

pala on 3/24/03 at 23:20 (114388)

ok ed, i will meditate on that. and i hope you will also think about what changed on this board when julie and nancy s and nancy n used to be here.
i am happy to give civility and kindness and open mindedness a chance again here. more than happy.

Re: Paula

Julie on 3/25/03 at 01:26 (114398)

Paula, thanks for the nice comments you've been making about me. I appreciate them.

Yes, I've been following the board since Ed and his mates commandeered it because, as I said, I wanted to get more insight into the rightwing fanatic mind, which he insists on terming 'conservative'. I think I've seen enough now, and I won't be coming back. But you're welcome to email me if you'd like to: I think I gave you my address but in case not, it's juliefried @ clara. co. uk (no spaces, of course).

I posted yesterday only because Ed's 'Mein Kampf' remark to you, and his subsequent baiting ones, were inexcusable and made me very angry. I'm sensitive to such things not just because I am Jewish but because my husband lost family in Nazi Germany too, and was himself a refugee, only narrowly escaping to England in 1939, three months before the start of the war.

I don't think Ed is really anti-semitic, and I knew he was Jewish, but the things he said to you were thoughtless and offensive (Mein Kampf isn't a topic for frivoloity in my book) and they got me writing.You deserved more than the grudging half-apology you got, but I hope you can let it go now, for your own peace of mind and healing.

And if it's any comfort to you to know what I think, I know that you're not a self-hating Jew. They do exist, but you're not one of them. If you're going to continue on the board, try not to react so violently to things. You oughtn't to care about what Ed thinks.

I hoped that the rest of my post, relating to the war on Iraq and the motivation behind it, would encourage people here to think about the direction in which our country is being taken. I've seen no evidence of that so far, but you never know.

Julie

Re: Paula

pala on 3/25/03 at 07:18 (114405)

julie, you once gave me your e mail and i mis placed it. would you be willing to give it to me again?

Re: Paula

pala on 3/25/03 at 07:21 (114406)

julie, you gave me your e mail address once and i lost it. would you give it to me again? i would love to be in communication with you.

Re: Paula

BGCPed on 3/25/03 at 07:33 (114407)

Just a thought before you go. If you tell Pala she 'oughn't care about what Ed thinks' then why are YOU leaving. Maybe you should hear your own advice. I am just making a suggestion.

Re: Paula

pala on 3/25/03 at 07:41 (114408)

duh. i just saw that you gave me your e mail. thanks. i wiould love to communicate. i agree with your post. and it is great that this is a space where people can talk. as well. i must say that it is with a sigh of relief that i see you are posting here. the folks who left were the ones i felt closest to. i have really missed y'all. wait, the plural of that is 'all y'all' , pronounced all yall

Re: this board

marie on 3/25/03 at 09:27 (114426)

John I have nothing but respect and admiration for you. You're a great person to chat with. I hope we cna all be freinds after this. Can we count on you?

marie

Re: To BG

Julie on 3/25/03 at 09:27 (114427)

Brian, I've made it clear, more than once, why I'm leaving, but I'd be sorry if you, or anyone, concluded that it is because of Ed's personal abuse of me. Of course I don't care what he thinks of me. But I'll try to be clearer.

I've been appalled by the way he (with a little help from others, and in particular your good self) has taken over the social board, which used to be a safe, supportive space, and turned it into an unsafe space.

There can be no disagreement about this: it's weeks since anyone came here in search of comfort and support, though I still hope that will change. I thought that when I stopped posting two weeks ago, my removing myself would end the 'debate' and that the board would return to normal. Unhappily, I was wrong.

What is particularly appalling about what has happened is that the two of you are medical professionals, but seem to have forgotten that you are here to help.

For three years I enjoyed coming here to offer what I could to help people. I don't enjoy being here any more. So I'm gone. And for the life of me, I don't understand why you should care one way or the other.

But I do realise that you don't care, and that your question was, as usual, just a jeer.

Re: For Dr. Ed - Rules for discussion

marie on 3/25/03 at 09:30 (114428)

Phewwwwww....you guys are the reason I enjoy being here.

Later gaters

marie

Re: To BG

pala on 3/25/03 at 09:38 (114433)

we were on the verge of a good place here, like it used to be before you and other wonderful folks left. would you stay if wendyn, marie and kathy monitored? could you stand being here long enuf to help us select good moderators? . i can really see why you have had enuf but i think the reign of terrorr will be over when we have our monitors but if you have to go i understand. my stomach has been in a knot from this nastiness for monts now. maybe when the monitors get in place this will be a board you can come back to. for me this board is already ruined if folks like you and nancy s and nancy n never return. i feel so sad and frustrated.

Re: Julie

Sharon W on 3/25/03 at 10:00 (114437)

Julie,

Actually there was a post here a couple of days ago written by Marie, who was upset about losing her job, and another one by Carole, who was upset and concerned about her brother's health.

Sharon
.

Re: Sharon

Julie on 3/25/03 at 10:35 (114448)

Yes, I know, Sharon, and I've been in touch with them both by email. But what I meant was that no new person with PF or other foot pain has come here for help lately, and I doubt that anyone will until the board returns to normal. I wish you and the others all success in your efforts to bring that about.

Re: Sharon

john h on 3/25/03 at 11:16 (114464)

I would suspect that people in serious foot pain do not give this social Board a 2nd thought. They probably take one look at the social board and are out of here. They are in serious pain and could care less about our political discussions. Actually, we have a very few people in these discussions but those who are here are all very passionate. I have not counted but what do we have maybe 15 or so people who are here day in and day out. With this few people we should be able to display enough self control so as not to call each other names either directly or by innuendo.. If we cannot do that then we need some help beyond a monitor. None of us are likely to change our position and we are probably looking for reinforcement from people who think as we do. I think we are probably not much more uglier to each other on occasion than are our elected representatives to Congress. Listen to these guys and girls attack each other and they are at the highest level. Let us just get some control of our emotions and act like adults.

Re: For John

Sharon W on 3/25/03 at 12:07 (114484)

I agree completely. Those in serious foot pain usually show more interest, at first, in the medical advice and information that can be found on other boards. I know that when I first found this board I took NO interest in the social board whatsoever, I never even bothered to read it. It was from reading the other boards that I became fond of certain other posters, which led me to sometimes read the posts they were involved with on the social board. But I was still more interested (usually) in other boards, because they contained information about what was really bothering me -- my feet! It is only now that I've learned the main problem with my feet isn't PF or TTS anymore, that I've taken a stronger interest in the social board -- even though I've been posting for over a year now and reading the boards for longer than that.

I do realize that this board has been a safe haven for some posters, a place where they could talk about anything at all, and yet have the comforting knowledge that the people they were chatting with were going through the same kinds of things. And I agree -- with only 15 or so people we should be able to display enough self control so as not to call each other names either directly or by innuendo.

Sharon
.

Re: About these boards....

JudyS on 3/25/03 at 18:24 (114569)

Kathy, I see that my response here is very, very far down the chain so I hope you don't miss it........because I've found your words to be extremely compelling and beautifully to the point. You clearly took some time with your thoughts and I commend you for a truly well-done thesis on the real treasure that is this website.

Re: Let's talk football......

JudyS on 3/25/03 at 18:49 (114573)

OK John h, let's talk football.....
the new football coach at my university is really, really cute.....:)

Re: To Paula - sorry, but no.

Julie on 3/26/03 at 01:57 (114621)

Paula, I missed the post of yours yesterday to which this is a response, and by now it's so far down the thread that you may not see it, but I do feel you deserve a response, so here goes.

I appreciate the friendliness in your hope that I will return to the board, I really do. I haven't felt much friendliness coming my way here lately. I know, and I've said, that I have to bear my share of the responsibility for what has happened here because I've been, or rather was, a key participant. As I said to Brian yesterday, I hoped when I removed myself a couple of weeks ago, that the bitter argument would cease and the board would heal. That didn't happen.

Paula, everything I said to Brian yesterday was the truth, but it wasn't the entire story. The truth is, I am brokenhearted. By what is happening in the world. By the way my mother country (America) has been deluded by a gang of hard-faced men with an horrific agenda going back to 1991 (see the link Mason posted last night). By the way the Prime Minister and government of my adopted country (Britain) has been deluded. By the way the social board has been hijacked and made miserable. Nothing, except the for real cataclysms in my personal life, has affected me so deeply.

I realised, and the realisation shocked me, how thoroughly disaffected I am when you all began talking yesterday, in such a positive way, about how the board could be brought back to what it once was. I'm by nature an optimistic person, and I usually trust that when people come together with goodwill and try to make things better, they can succeed. And I hope you will. But yesterday's discussion only made me more depressed, because I think that the board has been broken beyond repair. I'm sorry to say this, and I hope I am wrong, because I know it means a lot to you, and to others. It meant a lot to me, too. And I gave it a lot. But it's dead for me.

And now Scott has proposed a committee of monitors to include Ed - and no-one has objected. At first I hoped he was putting the fox in charge of the chicken coop, but I don't think that is the case. Scott is busy, and rarely has time for the board. He probably isn't even aware of what has been going on.

I probably AM wrong about the board being ruined, because it has been through bad times before (though never, I think, as bad as this) and has always recovered. It has always had a life, an energy, of its own, and for the sake of everyone who wants it back, I really hope it will come back. But it will be without me. As I told you yesterday, I popped up out of the woodwork again, against my better judgement, only to give you some support. It worked, you said you agreed with my post, and you let go of the stuff that was bugging you, and I was glad of that. But it hasn't helped me. I feel worse today, having got the responses I got, than I did yesterday. So it's enough.

I'm not doing a Clare Short, threatening to resign and then not resigning. I really don't want to be here any more, in a place that has made me so heartsick, and after I post this I'm not going to read the board any more. So if you want to respond to this one, please do it by email. You know I'll be glad to hear from you.

Re: To Paula - sorry, but no.

john h on 3/26/03 at 10:50 (114663)

Our board is much to small to be a represenative sample of all the people. With a membership this small one post or one poster can create a lot of problems. I think it was Sahron who noted that we need a Moderator not a monitor and I must agree with her. Scott sends out reminders to be nice on occasion which is more or less what a moderator will do. A moderator is not one who removes people from the board except for some really bad offense. Actually a moderator does not remove anyone from the board. He can suggest to Scott to look into it. This is Scott's board and he is bound by certain principals. Scott may have removed 1 or 2 people since this board was created and then for people trying to use it as an advertisning medium. In no way can a moderator takes sides on an issue. You cannot get around the right of free speech any way you couch it. You can warn people when in the judgment of the moderator that they shoud tone down their expressions. We in no way should look to a moderator as some sort of board police. Just drop friendly reminders to posters to tone it down or be nice..

Re: To Paula - sorry, but no.

pala on 3/26/03 at 12:57 (114680)

thank you for clarifying that for me john. it is good to know what moderator's job is.

Re: Goodwin's Law

Mahatmelissama on 3/26/03 at 13:29 (114683)

BGCPed, I am always happy to explain but will not go into too much detail on the boards for fear of offending people who don't agree with me.

Suffice to say, when you become a born-again Christian (which I did about 6 years ago), your views on everything change.
Now on the experience of finding God for myself and all that, it would be a long long post.