sensory peripheral neuropathyPosted by Bev on 4/25/03 at 07:13 (117052)
Can a chronic case of plantar fasciitis cause sensory peripheral neuropathy or are they two completly different disorders? What symptoms of PF that mimic PN or what symptoms of PN mimic PF ? I am really concerned as it seems as if these two get confused in being diagnosed by the professionals often. Can PF eventually bring on PN ? Thankyou for your help.
Re: sensory peripheral neuropathySteveG on 4/25/03 at 09:45 (117073)
Bev - have you had ESWT?
Re: sensory peripheral neuropathyBev on 4/25/03 at 09:56 (117074)
Steve G., No I have not had ESWT . I have an appointment on May 5th in Lansing with a Dr. Gary Cesar, so I will see what he thinks. So far the 4 doctors I have seen ( pods, neuros, GP,ortho's) all have poo-poo'd me off with 'just PF' , go home 'take meds and leave us alone' attitude. I am sssssssssooooooo tired of all of this attitude of doctors I am about to go live in a cave alone in a mountain somewhere !!!!!!!!
Re: sensory peripheral neuropathyPauline on 4/25/03 at 10:25 (117079)
Good question. I hope one of the doctors will supply us with an answer.
I sometimes think my nerves have changed in the arch area following my last bout with P.F. I notice I can hold ice to one foot without as much discomfort or response to the cold ice. Left takes a much longer time to respond to cold than the right one.
Re: sensory peripheral neuropathySteveG on 4/25/03 at 10:46 (117082)
Are you having any symptoms that make you doubt your diagnosis - tingling, numbness, etc? Do you have first step pain, pain at the insertion point? When your pod presses on the heel, does it hurt?
Re: sensory peripheral neuropathyBev on 4/25/03 at 11:54 (117093)
Oh yes, I had them all, however, no one even cared, they don't 'listen' to a thing I say. They just listen in their own way then send me on my way, I'm so tired of uncaring doctors, what is with them anyway????
Re: sensory peripheral neuropathySteveG on 4/25/03 at 12:21 (117097)
Well, looking back at your posts, it sounds like you have run the whole gamut of tests. Are you looking to have additional diagnostic work done? What is it you would like the doctors to do for you -- besides exhibit more concern?
Re: sensory peripheral neuropathyBev on 4/25/03 at 13:10 (117104)
Find out just WHAT IS WRONG with me and make me better or at least try to find out why I have so very much pain and try to help me do something about the pain. They do not want to give me anything for the pain. except for Motrin, and that is not doing it for me and that leaves me into a lot of depression (the pain), pain makes me crabby and I do not like being crabby. I was always a very happy, active, fun and on the go person, I never sat still , always going camping, bike riding, doing stuff, and now I am sitting here in pain and I HATE IT !!!!!!!! I WANT MY LIFE BACK !!!!!! Is that too much to ask for?? I guess I am asking for too much, I need to stop crabbing and just accept life the way it is , pain and all, and just do what I can . I will shut up and stop bothering everyone, sorry.
Re: sensory peripheral neuropathySteveG on 4/25/03 at 13:35 (117107)
Bev - have you thought about a pain med - Doxepin, Neurotonin. A lot of people on the board have responded well to Neurotonin. I take 50mgs of Doxepin and I have found that it helps with the pain and enables me to get a good nights sleep.
Re: sensory peripheral neuropathyAly on 4/25/03 at 14:26 (117117)
Sorry, but can you please go back to Bev's original question, as to whether or not PF and PN are related, or if the PN is indicative of a different problem altogether?
I have the same symptoms (and experiences with doctors regarding my PF!) and am very interested in your answer...thanks!
Re: sensory peripheral neuropathyBev on 4/25/03 at 14:47 (117120)
I was on Neurontin , however I was a basket case on it /:) I could not even remember how to spell the simplest thing or even find the keys on the keyboard. It was so funny, you should have seen me on Neurontin, I would be sitting here saying to myself ' okay now where is the letter 'e' I know it is here somewhere', I was hilarious:) It did take away the burning, but it also took away what little brain I had left :o
Re: sensory peripheral neuropathySteveG on 4/25/03 at 15:01 (117122)
Bev - Sorry, I did not mean to sound glib (if I did). I know what you are going through and how difficult it can be. I have been through the gamut myself for the last two years, including ESWT. And I am just now starting to see improvement. You might want to try Doxepin. As I say, I have been on it for quite a while and it has helped with both the pain, and the anxiety and depression that the pain can cause. At 50mgs, I have not noticed any side effects. Ask one of your doctors about it and see what they think.
Re: sensory peripheral neuropathydave r on 4/25/03 at 15:06 (117123)
bev, i have two books at home that go into detail about periphial nueropathy. I can send you them if you like. I am done reading them.
One is called numb toes and aching soles. the other is called nutrients for periphial neuropathy. I bought them both at barnes and noble. Just an f.y.i both books have detailed info on pn. What the symptoms are and how to control it.......... Let me know.
Re: sensory peripheral neuropathydave r on 4/25/03 at 15:12 (117124)
I think that the symptoms can be very confusing. With neuropathy you have nerve sensationa and nerve pain. Anything can set it off. Over use doesnt help. Vitamin and minerals is a really big factor in people with pn. Diabetics especially those that have stage 2 diabetes have alot of trouble with nueropathy. Pf pain and tarsal tunnel can mimick these symptoms because there are so many nerves in your feet....... i am not a doctor just a pf FREAK:D
Re: sensory peripheral neuropathyBev on 4/25/03 at 15:45 (117129)
Thanks Dave , That is why I came up with that question for the doctors on PF and PN that I would like answered is from reading 'Numb Toes and Aching Soles'. I have the very painful aching soles but not the numb toes, but the very painful heels, and arches, tingling, numbning,electric shock-like symptoms. So that is why I am waiting with 'anticipation' for an answer to the question I asked this morning. Thankyou for your offer on the book , however someone very sweet and loving person sent the book to me yesterday and I read 1/2 of it last evening. Today I had my little grandson so I could not read, but tonight I hope to read some while my hubby is busy at a church function that I can no longer do as my feet will no longer allow me to do -ug! You have a very nice evening. Bev
Re: sensory peripheral neuropathyBev on 4/25/03 at 19:05 (117140)
Doctors and Steve G., I have been on Topamax now for going on 3 weeks now and I am starting to see a small improvement in the pain level at times. The burning is less and the overall deep pain is less, however I still have the pain when I walk and all, it is just really very hard to describe though .They have just started using the Topamax for the nerve type pain like the Neurontin (my daughter has been on Topamax for her migranes for several months). Are any of the doctors on the board using the Topamax as yet or do you not believe it is to be used for this? I would like to have your coments please. Thankyou.
Re: sensory peripheral neuropathyPam S. on 4/25/03 at 21:13 (117146)
Dave, I am considering trying the vitamin regime. How would you recommend I begin. I know B6 is good for nerves but would I need a B complex also.
I have a sensivite bladder and am worried those vitamins might flare up those dreadful symptoms. Just dont know.
I have alot of burning from Maybe PN but not diagnosed. TTS is diagnosed.
Re: sensory peripheral neuropathyCarole C in NOLA on 4/26/03 at 09:38 (117170)
Now Bev, you KNOW from reading this board that there is 'just PF' and then there is PF!!! Some cases can be mild but other cases can be completely debilitating.
On the other hand, your doctors should know that and even assuming they have made the right diagnosis (which very well may not be true) they shouldn't be just brushing you off like that!! Especially when you are obviously telling them the severity of your case.
Re: sensory peripheral neuropathyCarole C in NOLA on 4/26/03 at 09:52 (117172)
Burning of the soles of the feet seems to be a pretty common symptom of severe PF. We've had threads on that topic before, and a surprisingly large number of us with PF responded that we have these burning feelings. Burning feelings due to PF disappear along with other PF pain when one's feet get better.
I don't know much at all about TTS since I don't have it. I also don't know much about burning feelings elsewhere than on the soles of the feet. Hope this helps somehow?
Re: Vitamins and supplements that may help with nerve problemsSharon W on 4/27/03 at 16:16 (117228)
B12 is probably the vitamin most important to combat peripheral neuropathy, although B6 and several of the others are important too. I've lost the link so I can't include that, but I thought you might be interested in reading this info I found on the net (below).
Here's some interesting info from Holisticonline.com
'Applies to all neuropathy not just Diabetic'
People with diabetes have a higher than usual need for vitamin E, which improves insulin activity and acts as an antioxidant and a blood oxygenator. Research has shown that people with low blood levels of vitamin E are more likely to develop Type 2 diabetes. Double-blind studies show that vitamin E improves glucose tolerance in people with Type 2 diabetes (NIDDM). Vitamin E was found to improve glucose tolerance in elderly non-diabetics.'
'If you are taking an anticoagulant (blood thinner), consult your physician before taking supplemental vitamin E.'
'Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine)
...Peripheral neuropathy is a known result of pyridoxine deficiency and is indistinguishable from diabetic neuropathy. Vitamin B6 supplements improve glucose tolerance in women with diabetes caused by pregnancy. ...1,800 mg per day of a special form of vitamin B6-pyridoxine alpha-ketoglutarate-improves glucose tolerance dramatically.'
...Vitamin B12 is needed for normal functioning of nerve cells.'
'Oral supplementation may be sufficient, but intramuscular vitamin B12 may be necessary in many cases. Take up to 500 mcg of Vitamin B12 three times per day.'
Inositol is needed for normal nerve function. Diabetes can cause nerve damage, or diabetic neuropathy. Some of these abnormalities have been reversed by inositol supplementation (500 mg taken twice per day).'
A'LA and GLA
Alpha-lipoic acid (ALA) is a powerful natural antioxidant. It has been used to improve diabetic neuropathies (at an intake of 600 mg per day) and has reduced pain in several studies.'
'Gamma-linolenic acid (GLA), found in black currant seed oil, borage oil, and evening primrose oil, has been shown to be helpful for improving damaged nerve function...'
'Supplementing with 4 grams of evening primrose oil per day for six months has been found to reverse the cause of diabetic nerve damage and improve this painful condition. In double-blind research, 6 grams per day helps reduce nerve damage in people with both Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes (IDDM and NIDDM).
Take 500 to 1,000 milligrams of any of these oils twice daily.'
The above information is from Holisticonline.com
Re: Vitamins and supplements that may help with nerve problemsPauline on 4/27/03 at 22:02 (117239)
I don't know if it is a new product, but there is a sublingal B-12 supplement which includes B-6 and Folic Acid. I understand one tab. is suppose to be the same amount given in a standard injection. Don't know if this is true though, but it seems like a lot of B-12.
The Box says Vit-B 12 (as cyanocobalamin) 1000mcg, 16,666% daily value.
I purchased some to try it because my Internist (deceased) believed in giving Vit. B-12 injections and personally I felt better when I got them.
General health that is. The younger doctors seem to think your nuts when you ask about it.
Re: sensory peripheral neuropathyPam S. on 4/27/03 at 22:47 (117241)
Thank you all of you who are answering my question. Sharon, that is great information. I am wondering if you have tried any of those supplements. I think I might need to consult with a nutionist before I dive into that arena. Most internists do not know one thing about vitamins etc.
I am going to print out what Sharon and Pauline have sent me. Pauline who makes that supplement you have. Is it Twin Labs?
Re: Vitamins and supplements that may help with nerve problemsSharon W on 4/27/03 at 23:22 (117246)
I take a multivitamin and a B complex with extra B12 every day. But I've read (on the neuropathy board) that the best form of B12 to use is methycobalamin (not sure if I have that quite right!), that it's more completely utilized by the body. I've looked for this in other places but haven't found it – probably the only place I could find it is at the health food store that's (shudder!) inside the mall...
I supplement with vitamin E once every 3 days – perhaps not as much as I should be using, I don't know, but I do worry about that one because E is a fat soluble vitamin, the kind that can actually build up in your body and damage your liver if you take huge overdoses of it...
I take a combo of borage oil (GLA), plus linseed and fish oil (omega-3) every day. I definitely would take alpha lipoic acid too, if I didn't have an allergic reaction to it. (It might be best to avoid ALA if you're allergic to sulfa drugs, like I am.)
I also take ginko biloba, Q10, and hawthorne berries, but those aren't for neuropathy, they're antioxidants to help reduce my hypertension and the associated risk of clogged arteries, etc.
I don't know what inositol is, so I can't give you any input on that one.
Re: Pam - oops!Sharon W on 4/27/03 at 23:23 (117247)
I posted my response to your questions above, instead of here... :'>
Re: Pam - oops!dave r on 4/28/03 at 08:07 (117252)
wow sharon, you are a wealth of information.
Re: Vitamins and supplements that may help with nerve problemsBev on 4/28/03 at 09:00 (117255)
Hi Sharon, I have been taking the B 100's for years and was taking some of the other ones you mentioned until I read where they interfere with the 3 heart and BP meds that I take so I stopped them . I am so leary to take other herbal drugs and vitamins due to that now. I am still waiting for the doctors to answer my questions on the PF and the PN as I am going to be leaving Friday and I would like to hear what they have to say .They all must be at 'conventions' (golfing). If youse guys gets back before Friday, please try to answer me little question please, okay? Thanks :D Bev
Re: Vitamins and supplements that may help with nerve problemsSharon W on 4/28/03 at 10:53 (117261)
I'll answer if I can -- but, what was the question?
Re: Vitamins and supplements that may help with nerve problemsBev on 4/28/03 at 11:29 (117263)
Sharon, On 4/25/03 # 117140 and #117052 there were two questions
Re: sensory peripheral neuropathySharon W on 4/28/03 at 17:07 (117279)
(1) 'Can a chronic case of plantar fasciitis cause sensory peripheral neuropathy or are they two completly different disorders?
As far as I know, they are two completely different disorders.
(2) 'What symptoms of PF that mimic PN or what symptoms of PN mimic PF?'
When a sensory nerve is damaged by peripheral neuropathy (PN), common symptoms include: numbness in the toes and foot (something that people with plantar facaetis sometimes complain of; tingling in the feet (another thing sometimes experienced by people with PF); or foot pain such as aching or painful tingling or burning (often felt in the toes and the bottom of the foot, just as with PF).
Types of pain associated with peripheral neuropathy that are NOT typically experienced by people with plantar facaetis -- include intense burning, cutting, stabbing, shooting, or crushing pain. Plantar facaetis is also not normally associated with certain other problems that often plague people with PN, such as muscle weakness, clumsiness, lack of coordination, or difficulties with balance.
(3) 'Can PF eventually bring on PN?'
Not that I know of.
I hope this is helpful. It would still be much better to get one of the doctors to answer these questions...
Re: For BevSharon W on 4/28/03 at 17:32 (117282)
You wrote, 'I have the very painful aching soles but not the numb toes, but the very painful heels, and arches, tingling, numbning,electric shock-like symptoms.'
Of course only a doctor is qualified to diagnose, but those symptoms sound more like some sort of nerve problem than like plantar facaetis. From your comments about reading the Numb Toes book (an excellent book, by the way -- I own a very dog-eared copy that I wouldn't part with!) it sounds like you are probably starting to come to the same conclusion. Even if you once had nerve conduction tests which showed nothing abnormal (and I can't remember whether you did or not), those nerve conduction test results can change over time -- and repeating those tests after a year or more may show very different results! :o
The nerve problem could just as easily be tarsal tunnel syndrome as peripheral neuropathy, however. TTS can cause any and all of the problems you mentioned, and TTS might actually be less likely to cause the numb toes than peripheral neuropathy is.
Re: For BevBev on 4/28/03 at 19:27 (117298)
Sharon, You know dear Sharon, am I the only one who has this problem , but to find out if I truly have PF, or PN, OR TTS takes time and patience and the doctors do not care to give me either of them . I had nerve tests, and neuro said 'no large nerve damage, you're okay'. Bone scan showed PF. They just poo-poo'ed the other symptoms I have , just said take pills and rest feet . Next specialist said I have PF plus chronic pain syndrome and to go to a pain clinic (okay, so what is the REASON for the chronic pain syndrome? He had none) . So now I am going to another pod next week down in Lansing to see what he has to say, so this should be interesting. So, anyway, how are you doing, Sharon ? Any results as yet on your tests to see what is causing your PN ? I have been thinking a lot about you and wondering how you are doing. Is the elivil helping the PN symptoms?
Thankyou for your help and advise. Bev
Re: For BevSharon W on 4/28/03 at 23:04 (117319)
You certainly are NOT the only one who has trouble finding a doctor willing to be patient with you and take the time that's needed to get an accurate diagnosis! As you know, I've been going through much the same, trying to sort out what's causing my PN. When my pod found out I was having trouble with my hands as well as my feet, she didn't want to treat me any more for nerve stuff -- I'm not sure what she suspected the problem was, but she said I needed to be under the care of a neurologist. So I went back to my family doctor. My family Dr. tried sending me to 2 different neurologists... both of whom told me they thought I had peripheral neuropathy, but neither of them wanted to order ANY tests -- they just told me to take more Neurontin!
So, back I went to my family doctor -- who obviously did NOT want to get stuck dealing with this problem, but since nobody else was willing to, she is ordering tests. So far, she has ordered some basic blood tests and now the MRI of the brain - all of which came back normal. She said she would have her lab people draw some more blood when I came back May 9th, so who knows, maybe then I will get lucky and SOMETHING will finally give us a clue about what's going on. I sure hope so.
AAAAaaaarrggh! ...Yes, Bev, I DO understand about the frustrations of paying big $$$ going to doctors who don't want to give you enough of their time or their patience to bother with an accurate and complete diagnosis. I guess I'm pretty lucky that my family doctor is doing so even though she really doesn't want to -- at least she takes me seriously and doesn't act like I'm wacko or something.
I sure hope that pod in Lansing will turn out to be better than the others that you've seen thus far. I have my fingers crossed for you, Bev. Let us know how it goes, OK?
Re: For BevBev on 4/29/03 at 07:40 (117323)
Sharon, Have you had the connective tissue disorder cascade tests done yet? To check for lupus and fibro ? Do you have fibromyalgia, or lupus? My tests came back weak positive, that means nothing according to the doctor. It sure does look as if you are getting the same treatment by doctors that I am, I just can not understand WHY they do that to us :o . WHY did your neuro's not want to follow up on your case and try to find out what is causing your PN :-/ WHY
Re: For BevBev on 4/29/03 at 07:59 (117328)
Sharon, That does not sound right as half of the message was deleted for some reason. After I asked you why your doctors did not follow up on your PN , I asked if you were a workmans (workwomans)comp patient . Because often that is the reason we are treated that way. I think maybe that is the reason I may be shuffled off is that I am workmans comp, and I was wondering if maybe you may be also. Then I said that they have no right to treat me that way because I worked in terrific pain for a year on my feet as a nurse for a year taking tons of pain meds to get through the day, until I finally could not tolerate the pain anymore. I would get to my car every night after work and start crying , all the way home and cry to bed and hubby would put me to bed with ice to my feet and pain pills and sleeping pills and try to sleep between the pain. Finally my doctor put me off work cause he said I can not keep taking that amount of pain meds with the BP and heart meds I was taking or I would stroke out.Really scared me :o So he had me off my feet.
Re: sensory peripheral neuropathyBetty on 8/13/03 at 07:05 (126819)
I have just gone thru years of going to doctors about is it PN or PF, well and expert on PN saw me yesterday and put the whole thing to rest by saying it is both!!! no one ever said that before. we wasted years, I find that neurontin is very helpful and got rid of the tingling , electric shocks etc. and so I am still just sore, now I will pursue possible surgery as the thought of getting some lasting help for the bottom of my feet is worth any risk I now feel , Ive had it for 5 years!! so dont waste your time tryuing to figure what one thing it is , accept problably two things and then move on , it has helped my thinking a lot.
Re: sensory peripheral neuropathyBevN. on 8/13/03 at 07:41 (126822)
Were your NCV tests positive for PN ? Mine were negative , however I had all of the PN symptoms so the doc's(three different kinds of doctors) say 'nope' , even though the feet are 'burning' off at the ankle , plus the tingling, electric shocks, etc, etc. My burning was so severe all I wanted to do was amputate some days , but those symptoms were not severe enough for the doctors I guess. However my GP did give me the meds I requested, Topamax (first neurontin , however it caused too many side effects on me) and the Ultram , and the meds helped . We have to be our own resercher(with the help of those on this board-bless them) and doctor as our doctors do not listen to us nor do they care, they are just too busy I guess. Are you going to try the ESWT for your PF or are you having surgery? I have an appointment tomorrow , I am thinking about the ESWT for my PF . Keep in touch. Bev