TWA Flt. 800Posted by Leon S. on 5/11/03 at 19:51 (118356)
I heard a new theory on the radio today which also sounds plausable in light of AlQaeda's m.o. regarding the TWA Flt 800 disaster. Apparantly, there was a small plane flying in the area which the air controlers were tracking but had no record of. The missile that was reported seen by many witnesses was not fired at the TWA plane but was fired by the Navy at this unidentified plane, which according to two Air National Guard pilots who saw everything, said the missile destroyed the small plane with the type of explosion that was more than just airplane fuel blowing up but high explosives. The indication was that this plane was on a early mission to fly into some target in the NY area, possible another plane. The resultant explosion of this hit by the missile and the small plane, in close proximity to the TWA 800 plane is what brought it down. The reporter said that all this is documented in the web site of the investigation and there is a book coming out (unfortunately, I heard this interview early this morning and I don't recall the name) detailing all of this information in a very believable account.
Re: TWA Flt. 800Sharon W on 5/11/03 at 19:53 (118358)
Re: TWA Flt. 800john h on 5/11/03 at 20:29 (118363)
If the Navy or any other military organization fired a missile in that high traffic area there would be to many people involved to keep it a secret. It takes a lot of people and coordination to fire off a missle and the chances of all these people keeping quiet is near zero. Costal defense and air defense in these areas would be by airborne intercept which at one time is what I did out of Falmouth, Mass. I cannot fathom any defense where we would fire surface to air missiles in this high traffic area. The only place that I think 'maybe' has a hand held missle capability is on the roof of the White House. Certainly hand held missiles could be used by terriorist to bring down an airliner almost anywhere. I think the more likely cause is the finding of the very professional investigation board. After such accidents there is always a group of consipiracy people on the scene. They write books, sell articles to the papers and other publications, etc.If it were a missile attack then why not another? It would seem probable that a terrorist would want to take credit for such an event as that is the way they create terror. I would prefer the airlines make sure all the fuel tanks have some spark free fuel pumps and the fuel tanks are vented properly with their money than equip our aircraft with missile detectors and chaff dispensers.
Re: TWA Flt. 800marie on 5/11/03 at 21:02 (118368)
I would really like to hear more about this. I had a series of dreams in August prior to Sept. 11. They were so incrediably strong. I had to talk about them. I had a series of dreams about air disasters. After Sept. 11 some of my freinds and family that I had shared the dreams with were a little freaked about all of the accurate details. Me included. The very last dream involved a dark complected pilot in a small aircraft. Suddenly there was an explosion on the pilots right side of the plane. The plane broke into peices and fell through the sky. When TWA 800 happened my husband asked me if it was the last dream....I told him that I couldn't be sure because the plane in my dream was small. The dream was short but vivid. Leon if you get more information about this please let us know. This is one of two unanswered questions I have had.
The second is this dream. I had this dream just before the dream I mentioned above. I am in a plane(maybe a jet) I am looking out a window at an airliner that is flying close by. So close that I can see into the cock pit. The dream is like a camera taking sequenced photos and is a bit out of focus. I can see the back of a man I assume is the pilot. He is standing up. Suddenly there is a small explosion behind the cockpit. The pilot is thrown from the airliner from the blast and falls to his death. The dream was very strong. It's just that none of the jets involved with 9/11 had an explosion on board prior to crashing.
Sorry I don't mean to freak anyone out....it's just that these two dreams have gone unanswered and it bugs me a little. The other dreams involved two jets surrounded by a ball of fire and I thought it was like Pearl Harbor. Another dream was about a broadcaster named Barbara. She was saying there was a piot in grave danger and needed help NOW. Another dream involved a radio and a pilot that had a name with a 'my' sound in his name. The volume was going up and down and I couldn't understand the garbled message....he sounded like he was in trouble.
Re: TWA Flt. 800Leon S on 5/12/03 at 10:28 (118403)
John, I wish I remembered more details of the interview but from what I do recall, the two air national guard pilots gave very detailed reports of this account which is documented and publically available on the investigation web site. These pilots were convinced it would be in their best interests to not speak about it. One did and found his career at a dead end and the other, seeing what happened to the first one, clammed up. Regarding the fuel tanks of the TWA plane, it is interesting that the condition which the investigation said caused the 'accident' never occured in all the flying hours of any model of that plane before or after this happened.
Re: TWA Flt. 800Leon S on 5/12/03 at 10:30 (118404)
Marie, If I recall the name of the book or find it listed anywhere, I'll post it here...
Re: TWA Flt. 800john h on 5/12/03 at 13:53 (118419)
Leon I have served on numerous accident investigation boards both as a pilot a a maintenance specialist in avionics. You learn to never be surprised at anything but it is usually the obvious. Each and every fuel pump is individually installed and wired by people. People do make mistakes and the fuel pumps are manufactured by many different people being involved in the process. Depending on the type of aircraft pilots can compound the problems by continuing to run a fuel pump after the tank is dry. There would be experts from the manufacturers, installers, air frame, pilots and every conceivable expert you can think of on these boards working very independent of each other. Many accidents we never have enough evidence to pin point the cause but in most we do. There always seems to be off the wall theories that generate books and articles that serve the writers so I am always very skeptical of these therories. The idea that the Navy fired a missile in a congested New York departure route and then kept it a secret is beyond my comprehension. A spark in the fuel tank is much more plausable but does not make great reading. As a pilot I have seen many strange things that totally confounded me while flying such as st Elmo's fire shooting across the cockpit at night from one A/C duct to another. The Northern Lights can create weird effects and you think you are seeing things you are not. Flying over the Everglades one night in an F-89 the back seater was convinced I was flying upside down and the lights he saw on the ground were stars. Your body and vision can play real tricks on you and it is not uncommon for witnesses to an aircraft accident to see things that were not really there (this most certainly includes experienced pilots). I read many of the articles on the loss of TWA 800 and read many of the missle theories. I personally do not agree with them but I can not prove them wrong either. Believe it on not but at one time not to many years ago the most common cause for aircraft accidents in non commercial aviation was booze. For two years I was an Air Rescue pilot and have been first on the scene many times of aircraft crashes. I have flown the Chief of the FAA on occasion and a couple of years
Re: TWA Flt. 800Max K on 5/12/03 at 13:57 (118420)
Was the book called 'First Strike'?
Re: TWA Flt. 800BrianG on 5/12/03 at 17:56 (118458)
Hey John, about that Everglades flight. Your back seater didn't try to grab the stick did he? I would imagine if he really thought he was up side down, he must have been close to panicking!
PS: Did you have to report the incident, or did it just go away?
Re: TWA Flt. 800Leon S. on 5/12/03 at 18:49 (118466)
Max, I believe you are right. That was the name of the book.
Re: TWA Flt. 800Sharon W on 5/12/03 at 18:57 (118467)
Max and Leon,
'First Strike' it is, then. I'll be keeping an eye out for it... sounds interesting!
Re: TWA Flt. 800Leon S. on 5/12/03 at 19:01 (118469)
John, I don't mean to take away or deny the validity of any of your expertise in this matter but when it comes to politically sensitive issues like this one, I have no doubt that the government, regardless of the administration, is very capable of covering up sensitive issues that, for whatever reason, doesn't want brought out. Can we remember the Warren Commmission, The Gulf of Tonkin to name a couple? I started out with more in mind but at the time of this writing I have forgotten them. There must be a plot to make me forget them...but seriously, I have heard too many reputable people tesify to what they saw and their stories don't jive with what the gov't wants us to accept.
Re: TWA Flt. 800john h on 5/12/03 at 20:47 (118482)
Leon certainly you are entitled to your beliefs and they are as valid as mine. I just do not see a board of invetigators covering up the facts. It would take entirely to many people to cover up such an event. On most boards I was involved with it was generally Pilot Error as the primary cause. Any board member I was ever associated with was only interested in the truth. I would never under any circumstance cover up the cause of an accident and I cannot imagine any officer I have ever known who would do such a thing. If a plane crashes and people die we want to know why, the families want to know why. Only some idiot would want to hide the fact that an airliner was shot down over N.Y. with a missile. We may have some idiots in high places but just do not believe this plane was brought down by some hand held missile.
Re: TWA Flt. 800Dr. Z on 5/13/03 at 14:18 (118557)
This is the perfect example of a focused shockwave and how it can break up objects.
Re: TWA Flt. 800Leon S. on 5/13/03 at 18:32 (118610)
John, I am really impressed with your resume regarding these investigations but unless I missed something, I haven't read about any occasion where you were involved in any type of politically sensitive investigation of the type that Flt 800 was. When the government wants to surpress information where gov't agencies are doing the investigation,they have enormous means and resources at their disposal to affect the public outcome of any board of inquiry. This book 'First Strike' does not say Flt 800 was shot down by some hand held missile but was brought down by a naval defense missile which was witnessed by many credible people and the resultant explosion, in close proximity to the TWA plane, is what brought it down. As you said from your own experience, there were many well meaning witnesses from the Air National Guard pilots, to other commercial pilots in the area, to several air controllers who gave very credible accounts which differed from the 'official version.' They are the well meaning people of whom you spoke who would not be influenced by what the gov't wanted them to say and some, unfortunately paid a career ending price for there honesty.