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Oh my gosh do you guys know what happened in Saudi Arabia today?

Posted by marie on 5/13/03 at 15:52 (118576)

I was so busy today, blabbering my mouth off on this board and teaching I didn't take the time to read the news. Did you know there was a significant suicide bombing today just before Powell was due to be in the building. They think al-Quaida is responsible.

Only 2 terroorists involved I think........as many as 29 dead.

marie

Re: Oh my gosh do you guys know what happened in Saudi Arabia today?

marie on 5/13/03 at 15:58 (118577)

That's Al-Qaeda...darned neurontin. It's so nice to have neurontin to blame allmy mistakes on.

Re: Oh my gosh do you guys know what happened in Saudi Arabia today?

Mason M. on 5/13/03 at 16:12 (118581)

Unfortunately, Marie, Al Qaeda cells exist in numerous countries, as I know you are aware - probably too many countries for us to continue invading and occupying. I have been reading for some time that they exist in Saudi Arabia, a country we are treating as our friend (right now).

Let us hope that more specific and less damaging ways to deal with terrorists are found by those in power. Not an easy task, needless to say, but I think it would ultimately be easier than World War III, which I noticed you are far from eager to see as well and which I doubt many, if any, would survive. I hope those in power are eager to find other solutions. Most have not shown it yet, in my opinion. Thanks for your posts.

Re: Oh my gosh do you guys know what happened in Saudi Arabia today?

Sharon W on 5/13/03 at 16:50 (118586)

Marie,

One report I saw said there were 7 Americans among the dead -- but it's obvious a final deal toll hasn't been determined. What a terrible thing.

Sharon
:(

Re: More Neurontin on the brain

Sharon W on 5/13/03 at 16:51 (118587)

Make that a 'final DEATH toll' that hasn't been determined yet!

Sharon
:'>

Re: Oh my gosh do you guys know what happened in Saudi Arabia today?

Ed Davis, DPM on 5/13/03 at 17:39 (118596)

Marie:

We are at war. We did not start the war. We did not ask for the war. This is another 'battle' as was the battle for Baghdad. We will not change the terminology from 'shock and awe' to 'tickle the bad guys to death.'
There will be a military response in some area, at some time from us. I don't know any other way that a war can be fought.
Ed

Re: Dr. Ed

Sharon W on 5/13/03 at 18:31 (118609)

It will be very difficult to chase the terrorists down this time, especially since the incident occurred in Saudi Arabia. The Saudis are known to be uncooperative with such things -- probably because parts of the royal family support radical fundamentalist attacks while officially they condemn them. As we probably ALL know after 9/11, many Saudis (probably including much of the royal family) do hate the US, and would undoubtedly do their best to harass any such cooperation between our government and theirs.

This does NOT mean that I support the postitions taken by these terrorists (!!) but I've been saying for a very long time that we should not have troops in Saudi Arabia. They were necessary for the first Gulf War, of course, but I see no reason for them to have REMAINED there, or for them to still be there now.

Sharon
:(

Re: To Mason, Re: Oh my gosh do you guys know what happened in Saudi Arabia today?

Leon S. on 5/13/03 at 18:46 (118612)

Mason, What are you saying? You do remember that this same TERRORIST organization is the one that killed over 3000 people in NY, Washington and a field in Pa. by flying loaded airplanes into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon!!!What on earth do you mean that you hope that we should find less damaging ways to deal with these people? Are you following the news about the thousands of buried corpses that are being discovered in Iraq? What do you propose? That we send Jimmy Carter to these terrorist camps and build them prefab houses so they will be protected from the harsh desert sand storms and maybe they'll make peace? THEY WANT TO DESTROY US!!!

Re: To Mason, Re: Oh my gosh do you guys know what happened in Saudi Arabia today?

marie on 5/13/03 at 20:40 (118623)

Leon,

Sorry but I'd like to butt in just an itsy bit. I think the problem is that Al-Qaeda is in a number of countries throughout the world some countries look the other way while others try to locate these elusive groups but they slip through the cracks. We, our country, has Al-Qaeda groups within its borders. And we are having a hard time locating some of them. As Bush said the war on terror will be a different war. Sometimes a large display of our forces and sometimes low key intelligence will be used. The problem as I see it is that Al-Qaeda does not represent one country. It is a group of individuals with a similar Muslim fundamentalist beief and a hatred for Israel, the west in general and of course us. The members are from many countries and are pocketed throughout the world. We can't go into every country on the face of the earth and invade. I don't think even Bush would advocate that. Afghanestan was a country with the largest pocket of these people and they were harboring BinLaden. They were able to find refuge there because of the Taliban. That's why we went in. We will not invade Saudi Arabia. Unfortunately they are a necessary ally.....even if they're a bit two faced.

Well that's my 2 cents.....you had some good questions.

Keep in mind that we went into Iraq because they were in violation of resolution 1441. A violation of the agreement made after the Gulf war that they destroy their weapons of mass destruction. Which was not actually prooven before we attacked and we are still in the midst of prooving. As far as a connection between Al-Qaeda and Saddam...it's still in the midst of prooving as well. The real villian in our story is BinLaden. Sadaam is the real villian for the people of Iraq. And I hope they get him.

Thanks for your patience.

marie

Re: Sharon

marie on 5/13/03 at 21:15 (118627)

I love blaming everything on neurontin. It makes my life much simpler.
Sharon, I have to admit you have done well today. I really appreciate your efforts and time that you have put in. I have liked you right from the start and you have proved yourself a true sport.

Thanks, marie

Re: To Mason, Re: Oh my gosh do you guys know what happened in Saudi Arabia today?

Mason M. on 5/13/03 at 21:15 (118628)

Leon, you can calm down. I said no such thing. I said that I do not think the answer is to invade, destroy, and occupy each and every country in which terrorists exist. I am talking about entire nations, not the terrorists themselves, who usually make up a tiny percentage of the populace of any given country at any given time. We probably still have some terrorists here on our own soil. Do you think some other country should invade and destroy our country in order to reach those few terrorists?

Do you think that if we continue invading, destroying, and occupying entire countries because of terrorist cells - small groups of people - living there somewhere, the desire and willfulness of terrorists who want to harm the U.S. will diminish? I think they will grow, unfortunately. And I am not alone: Many people, both here and abroad, including many of the 70% of Americans who think Bush is doing a good job, believed that the invasion of Iraq would foster more terrorism against us. And they believed the invasion of Iraq was worth the risk of more terrorism.

If that is starting to come about, horrifying as it is, few people are really going to be surprised. Are you surprised? We knew that the majority of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudis. How do you explain our making nice with the Saudis in view of this? Perhaps their country was useful for a short time in order to do what we wanted to do in Iraq? If so, do you think this kind of exploitation is going to win us permanent friends? I am not saying that the U.S. is the only country to perpetrate such exploitation; but let's not act shocked when it backfires now and then. It will backfire now and then, or at least fail to make us immune to terrorist acts.

By the way, it's a shame that people feeling somewhat hysterical have a tendency here to stick pokers into the likes of Jimmy Carter. There are people around who actually do nasty deeds or lead useless lives who would be more deserving of this type of bashing than Jimmy Carter.

When people find someone who devotes his life to truly good deeds deserving of this kind of pointless bashing, I start to worry. Surely you can find other, nasty Democrats more 'worthy' of this.

Re: To Mason, Re: Oh my gosh do you guys know what happened in Saudi Arabia today?

Mason M. on 5/13/03 at 21:23 (118631)

Well said, Marie.

Re: Mason

marie on 5/13/03 at 21:31 (118632)

Mason,

I didn't vote for Jimmy Carter and I wasn't to impressed with him as our president. He has done remarkable things with his life since. I admire anyone who is willing to walk the walk and not just talk the talk. Sometimes ya just have to do more than just complain all day. I think he sees something that is in need of repair and goes for it. I wish more folks took his attitude. Maybe this world would change for the better even if it was just for a short moment.

He certainly doesn't deserve to be bashed.

marie

Re: Mason

Sharon W on 5/13/03 at 21:39 (118634)

Marie,

I agree completely with what you just said. Except that I wish everyone in the world would take that same 'see something that is in need of repair and go for it' attitude. The world would be a much better place.

(Mind you, I STILL don't care for Carter's politics... but I do very much respect the man for the kind of person he is.)

Sharon
:)

Re: To Mason, Re: Oh my gosh do you guys know what happened in Saudi Arabia today?

BGCPed on 5/13/03 at 21:52 (118635)

Mason you destroyed your own argument. You say we should make nice and countries will like us and leave us alone? Well we make nice with Saudis and they happened to be majority of 9-11 culprits.....where did nice get us?
We are dealing with a group of people that hate us, our power everything about us. They dont want to convert us to Islam, they hate us becaiuse many of them have such a miserable existance. I would assume you have a decent life and value it. If I came to you and said hey go fly a plane into a building. You dont know anybody in there but Allah will greet you with virgins and a fruit basket.

You would probably laugh in my face. Only a truly ignorant, desperate fool would do something like that for those reasons.

Re: Mason

BGCPed on 5/13/03 at 21:55 (118636)

Well I wont knock his record with habitat. What I will say is that some of his public comments are classless for a past President. Besides Clinton he has violated the unwritten rule of ex-Presidents knocking a sitting President. Especially from a President that had a dismal foriegn policy at best.

Re: To Mason, Re: Oh my gosh do you guys know what happened in Saudi Arabia today?

Mason M. on 5/13/03 at 22:12 (118638)

The misreadings! Unbelievable. BG, I did not say we should make nice and countries will like us and leave us alone. I said that invading, destroying, and occupying every country that has a terrorist cell in it will get us nowhere. (It is also impossible, by the way.) Our problem tends to be with terrorists and their cells, and not necessarily with the countries in which they happen to hide, which includes our own country, unfortunately. They are very good at hiding, again unfortunately.

I also asked what are we doing making nice with the Saudis when the majority of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudis. You just repeated that to me, as if you were telling me something I didn't already know. You scrapped with me on something we already agree about. Why is this?

Please take the time to read a post - I don't think I could have been clearer - before attributing to it the exact opposite of what is in it.

I cannot make sense of anything else in your post, so this is all I will say.

Re: To Mason, Re: Oh my gosh do you guys know what happened in Saudi Arabia today?

BGCPed on 5/13/03 at 22:33 (118641)

Do you really think we will invade all countries that harbor terrorists? I think we needed to set an example and , as much as you hate this, kick some ass and set an example. You may label that the talk of a red-neck conservative but it needed to be done. Playing games like we did for the last 11 years or so got us nowhere. I also dont recall seeing your non-military solution, just plenty of whats wrong with this and that.

Am I wrong? bet we wont see France and Germany and some of the other weasels and thugs in the U.N. playing the same games. Saddam and his goons were a big target and a great example. They got spanked and so did their potential to sponsor more havoc. It also liberated millions. You may hate the guy that did it and resent the means but your guy had 8 years to do it and he made it worse.

I know you dismiss me as another conservative warmonger thats not worthy of a response. I know, we should have given the inspectors just a bit more time. Maybe send Jimmy Carter and Jesse Jackson over and let them broker a deal

I bet you hate Reagan also. Because of his stupid speech they wrecked a perfectly good wall in Berlin

Re: For BGCPed

Sharon W on 5/13/03 at 23:07 (118645)

If you give Mason a chance to speak for himself about his opinions, he might surprise you.

Personally, I sometimes get frustrated or even angry when it appears to me that because I support the president and support my country, someone has made the assumption that I must be opposed to freedom of speech, or I must be a bloodthirsty warmonger, or have a follow-the-crowd sheeplike mentality, or be a Bible-thumping bigot, or whatever. Do those sorts of stereotypes bother you too?

Since I dislike it so much when other people seem to be making those assumptions about ME without ever asking me what my actual opinions are, I try very hard not to make similar assumptions about those with whom I disagree.

Sharon
:-?

Re: For BGCPed

BGCPed on 5/14/03 at 07:23 (118652)

Point taken Sharon. Normally I do that also. I also read articles writen by folks on the left. I dont dismiss them and say I dont need to read that because I know I wont agree with it.

To be honest it was the tone of his very first post. I am not saying I or anyone else is the editorial boss. When a post is filled with snide assumptions and unsubtantiated claims presented as facts. Mason is not a stupid person. I am sure when he made those posts he fully expected certain people would debate him.

He even pointed that out from his post about his last visit and the reaction he got from some. You can call a certain group or person ignorant in one slang term. You can also do it with a paragraph that is more subtle. Look at the golfer Vijay Singh, he will get hammered for his stand yesterday that Annika Sorensten shouldnt be allowed to play in the tournament with the guys. He made points why and didnt sugarcoat it. He wasnt rude but it will be made into an insult by some, others will say that guys right and its time somebody said it.

My point is, Mason can write anything he wants. His first post was peppered with snide comments. Then he makes the old tried and true 'I may leave this board over a few blah blah' I think he is smart enough to know that he was throwing rocks at a hornets nest. I also think he enjoys a heated debate like John, Dr ED, Marie, Sharon, etc.

Hope I shed a bit of light on things

Re: For BGCPed

Sharon W on 5/14/03 at 08:41 (118662)

I agree with you about throwing rocks at a hornet's nest. (Of course, the usual reason for doing that, is to knock it down.)

These heated debates are very stimulating -- but as we all know, sometimes they can get way out of hand.

Sharon
B-)

Re: To Mason, Re: Oh my gosh do you guys know what happened in Saudi Arabia today?

john h on 5/14/03 at 09:06 (118665)

Current plans even before the recent bombing was to move all military persons out of Saudi Arabi. More than likely we will keep a presence in Quatar as they want us there for protection. Over time it appers most of any European military presence in Europe will be moved out of Germany and France into the Eastern European countries. With the fall of Russia NATO is not the useful organization it once was and I see a diminished U.S. miliary presence in much of Europe other than some of our Air Bases. The United Nations as peace keeper is a complete failure and it seems destined to be nothing more than a humanitarian organization. It has no military power so has little ability to enforce anything. With a country headed by Omar Gadafhi in charge of Human Rights in the U.N. something is wrong here.

The nature of war and conflict is changing dramatically due to the advance in weapons and the way war is waged. Terriorism on a new scale may indeed cause nations to use a First Strike capability in the New World. Israel has had to use this method for some years or else face complete destruction. If somewone around them builds a nuclear reactor like Saddam did you can bet it will be taken down. First Strike may be the only option in some cases due to the changing nature of how war is waged. War has existed since the dawn of civilization and there is not reason to think it will just go away because we want it to.

Re: Dr. Ed

Ed Davis, DPM on 5/14/03 at 10:21 (118678)

Sharon:
It is my understanding that our forces are, for the most part, moving operations from Saudi Arabia to Qatar. Our exit from Saudi Arabia is long overdue. Oil coming from Iraq will substitute for muc hof Saudi oil.
Ed

Re: To Mason, Re: Oh my gosh do you guys know what happened in Saudi Arabia today?

JudyS on 5/14/03 at 11:52 (118694)

Leon you are absolutely right. Terrorists want only one thing - to destroy infidels. Period. They don't negotiate. They don't compromise. Their goal is to destroy any hope of globalization in the forms of democracy or free trade as that would prohibit their ultimate goal - which is to have an exclusive world order based on their religious beliefs. The world will simply NOT be safe until present terrorists are obliterated and their ability to teach their philosophy to youngsters eliminated.

Re: To Mason, Re: Oh my gosh do you guys know what happened in Saudi Arabia today?

JudyS on 5/14/03 at 11:54 (118695)

The difference, Mason, is that the US is not willingly harboring terrorists.

Re: To Mason, Re: Oh my gosh do you guys know what happened in Saudi Arabia today?

Necee on 5/14/03 at 11:59 (118698)

AMEN JUDY!!!! I agree with you 100%. Couldn't have said it any better myself.

**==
Necee

Re: To Mason, Re: Oh my gosh do you guys know what happened in Saudi Arabia today?

BGCPed on 5/14/03 at 12:09 (118700)

Very wise post Judy. I fail to see how some people can feel we can negotiate and reason with these types. They have a simple and single minded approach, much like a shark. They swim, kill and eat. You cant reason with a shark. You cant say please Mr Shark ,if we give you 55 gallons of shrimp every day, will you please stay out of our swim area and not eat any swimmers?

I have tried to understand this logic. I think one problem with some on the left is this. They dont want to believe that some people are inherently rotten. You can blame religion, up-brininging, socio-economic factors whatever. People that are capable of that type of indiscriminate violence and terror are scum, they dont deserve to walk among us.

Placating them and or buying them off does not work for the long term. For some on the left the line they draw is floating. They will say, yes Saddam is bad but we helped him a long time ago. He is bad but we have not found wmd etc. They are using shifting moral values and logic to fit their agenda.

We could find 3 nuclear warheads in Iraq today and some on the left would say, well that is only 3 small ones and they were never fired and how do we know they werent planted by the US military.

Re: Oh my gosh do you guys know what happened in Saudi Arabia today?

Necee on 5/14/03 at 12:10 (118701)

Dr. Ed...you are RIGHT on target with your comments!
For the life of me, I can't understand why a lot of Americans feel differently.

Happy trails....**==
Necee

Re: To Mason, Re: Oh my gosh do you guys know what happened in Saudi Arabia today?

Sharon W on 5/14/03 at 12:26 (118704)

Good point.

'Skepticism' taken to the extreme can become a way to reinforce one's own 'tunnel vision' -- when the only information you are willing to acknowledge is info that fits in with your preconceived notions of what is true and false, right and wrong. You gave an excellent example of this, above, when you said, 'We could find 3 nuclear warheads in Iraq today and some on the left would say, well that is only 3 small ones and they were never fired and how do we know they werent planted by the US military.'

As was shown in the OJ Simpson case, it's hard to prove that something wasn't faked, and pretty much IMPOSSIBLE to prove that you aren't a bigot or aren't the sort of person or organization who would lie or fabricate evidence. (And look at the miscarriage of justice that occurred in that case!)

You can choose to NEVER believe anything that the other side has to say, automatically discrediting ANY evidence or source of information that is contrary to your rigid preconceived beliefs -- and still consider yourself 'open-minded' because you sometimes read (or watch) the other side's news stories! Look at how the world press, which was even allowed to have imbedded reporters with the US military, showed only the images that made our military look bad and never showed all the images of compassion, images of soldiers risking their lives to save Iraqi citizens (in fact that happened again just a couple of days ago, when those 3 were killed in the helicopter crash trying to rescue an Iraqi child).

Sorry, I'm rattling on...

Sharon
.

Re: To Mason, Re: Oh my gosh do you guys know what happened in Saudi Arabia today?

marie on 5/14/03 at 13:53 (118718)

I am not so sure that folks on the left would argue that 3 nuclear weapons would be no big deal. The fact is we invaded Iraq on the belief that they were in violation of resolution 1441. I watched the entire report that Hans Blick and the nuclear scientist gave to the UN. I also watched and listened very carefully to Collin Powell. There was never any specific evidence of wmd. I thought that Mr. Powell had some very good arguments and perhaps he is correct. We have yet to find wmd but that doesn't mean we won't. Again Time will only tell, so hang in there right wingers, be patient.

I also don't believe anyone in today's modern times goes around with their heads in the clouds about good guys and bad guys. Yes some of our young folks have protested for peace and maybe they are a bit idealistic about the inherent goodness in all people. It is wonderful that we live in a country that allows our young people to explore all the options available to them. The freedom to be idealistic. They do grow up I promise you that. I do believe there are always a range of options available in any given situation.

If a country is volunteerly harboring terrorists we should do our best to deal with them. Not even Bush would just go in and blast everyone away without first using some diplomacy. There are many ways to deal with uncooperative countries. And of course military action being one of them.
Terrorists want us to be afraid. And let's face we are.

The problem to me insues with the rebel terorists imbedded in countries that are our allies. (that includes even some of the two faced allies) I would hope that the CIA would do its best to root out the little devils with of course the cooperation of that country. I don't know if we will be able to rid the entire world of terrorists...specifically Al-Qaeda. They are not loyal to any one country...they are only loyal to their cause, to eliminate Americans, Westerners, and Jews. They are willing to live in the worst conditions and have no problem with blowing themselves up for their cause. How do you fight someone like this? I would guess Intelligence. They don't follow the rules of war and they don't care if we do.

With Saddam Hussein out perhaps some of the poor Paestinian people won't be so anxious to give themselves up for Hamas. I do believe it was Saddam who paid families when their sons and daughters sacraficed their lives in a suicide bombing.

marie

Re: To Mason, Re: Oh my gosh do you guys know what happened in Saudi Arabia today?

john h on 5/14/03 at 13:54 (118719)

Another mass grave was found in Iraq today with over 3000 bodies in it. They are thought to be Shites from the uprising in 1991. I have lost sort of track of the number of mass graves that have been found or the torture chamebers uncovered but does it really matter how many weapons of mass destruction we find? Are there not some people so evil than you need no more reason than the millions they have murdered and tortured reason enough to deal with them. As individuals we can not cure the worlds problems. We can help some of the people we meet along the way. Nations can not cure all the worlds problems but they can deal with some of the evil people along the way. No, we cannot go after every despotic regime in the world but we sure can deal with some that present a clear and present danger. JFK risked nuclear war by stopping the Russian ships with missiles headed to Cuba. Does anyone think the UN could have stopped the Russians. Did we really need to consult with anyone before risking this war? Sometimes you have to take a stand and act in your own nations interest. That is exactly what Russian,France and Germany were doing in opposing the U.S. on the Iraq issue. They had a vested interest in keeping Iraq afloat and were not action out of some high moral principal. The war is over but
the Middle East remains a tender box. Nations such as Syria do now understand we are not just a paper tiger and may be a little less likely to promote or harbor terriorist. We were hated before the war by the majority of the population in the Middle East and it will continue that way. They see us as the reason for the existence of Israel who they do not even acknowledge has the right to exist. We are perceived as Infidels which will be for decades to come. The religious conflicts in the Middle East are as inflamatory as any other issue and like in Northern Ireland has been around for centuries and will not go away anytime in our life time. A state for Palestein seems to be a no brainer but even if that happens we still have a large element who will not recognize the right of Israel to exist. It seems likely that terror in that region will be there as long as Israel exist and they are not going away. With Afgan out of the control of Bin Laden and Saddam gone I personally think the world is a safer place. Will there continue to be violence. You bet.

Re: Oh my gosh do you guys know what happened in Saudi Arabia today?

marie on 5/14/03 at 14:07 (118721)

Hmmm...tickling them to death. Now why didn't I think of that. That's right I didn't think of that. Please don't place words in my mouth that were never there. It is unnecessary.

It was President Bush who said the war on terrorism will be a different war. It will be fought in different ways. I would guess that he has many options that he and his team, I hope have planned by now. Much should and will include smaller quiet operations and some will be larger military actions. Right now we are still gathering facts about the attack in Saudi Arabia so all of our discussion is simply assumption. I believe that the Saudi's will cooperate and track down the reponsible parties....they do understand that they want to keep us as an oil customer. Despite the news reports about Saudi's who hate us...there are many who don't feel that way. I just wish they'd encourage more supportive news efforts about us.

marie

Re: To Mason, Re: Oh my gosh do you guys know what happened in Saudi Arabia today?

marie on 5/14/03 at 14:20 (118724)

There is no doubt in my mind and in the minds of many left, right and middle Americans that the war in Iraq was a just cause for the people of Iraq. It is no doubt that they have suffered many years under the reign of this tyrant. No one will argue with that. Evidence of this abounds.

It is essential that we find evidence of weapons of mass destruction. We attacked Iraq because we felt that the Iraq government had wmd and it was a direct threat to our country. We and several other countries who agreed with us staged a war based on that issue. We thought that Iraq was in violation of resolution 1441. We did not have solid evidence but felt that there was at least some suspicious activity. We lost American lives....our countrymen. It is for them and their families that we need to do everything possible to locate and provide specific evidence. I am patient...however long it takes we should not stop looking.

marie

Re: Marie - WMDs and Res. 1441

Sharon W on 5/14/03 at 14:57 (118734)

Marie,

I agree with you on that; because our official reason for going into Iraq this time was their violation of resolution 1441, it is extremely important to figure out what happened to the WMD. But, let us not forget, that definitely WASN'T the only thing that Saddam agreed to in the 'cease fire' agreement after the (first) Gulf War. He also agreed to having the weapons inspectors in his country and giving them free reign to conduct regular inspections of his country to look for violations. Saddam certainly DID NOT fulfill that part of the agreement -- in fact he booted the inspectors out of Iraq completely until Bush, Jr. started rattling the saber of imminent war.

It worries me that so much of the intelligence info we had concerning the WMD seems to have come from Iraqi dissidents, or at least from Iraqis presumably seeking visas to stay in the US. Of course, that doesn't mean that their accounts were FALSE -- after all, some of them were people very much in the position to know about such things -- but it is quite possible they believed they would get more favorable consideration in their applications to stay in the US if they were seen as having provided vital intelligence info about Saddam's WMD.

By the way, my using BJ's '3 nuclear missiles' thing was just giving an exaggerated example -- or at least, that's what I intended by it. I was trying to make a point that we tend to grant more credibility to news reports and other information that agrees with our worldview, and that process can be rationalized and taken to extremes by some of the people, some of the time. I certainly didn't mean to imply that all liberals do that -- or that all conservatives do so, either, for that matter.

Sharon
.

Re: To Mason, Re: Oh my gosh do you guys know what happened in Saudi Arabia today?

Sharon W on 5/14/03 at 15:13 (118740)

John,

I was interested to see your comment that most of our remaining European military presence will be moved out of Germany and France. Is that because of the bitter disagreement between our countries over Iraq, do you think, or is there something else involved?

Sharon
.

Re: Mass graves

Sharon W on 5/14/03 at 15:17 (118742)

I saw in the news where they were saying one of those graves might have as much as 10,000 Iraqis in it killed by Saddam's regime. I don't know if it's the same one you were talking about.

Sharon
.

Re: To Mason, Re: Oh my gosh do you guys know what happened in Saudi Arabia today?

john h on 5/14/03 at 15:46 (118754)

I do not think the reason we will be moving is because of our recent disagreements with France and Germany but because we will be reducing our presence in Europe. Additionally it will be less expensive in these countries. The Germans and the French people at this point probably want us out although many business interest do not. The new Western Democracies want us there as it will help their economies. We will just have a reduced presence in Europe. Air bases in England, Turkey, Qutar, Azores, Spain and perhaps some of the Westerm European countries. New methods of warfare, intelligence gathering, and changing European geopolitics is probably the main reasons for this. In the long run it will save the taxpayer some money also.

Re: To Mason, Re: Oh my gosh do you guys know what happened in Saudi Arabia today?

BGCPed on 5/14/03 at 16:42 (118759)

My GOD, your saying France will be defended by a bunch of STREET MIMES?