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Posted by kurtis b on 5/14/03 at 09:21 (118667)

most of the articles on this board revolve around non athletes, does anyone have any experiance for treating the heel spur syndrome for an active (3hours a day) 15 yr old basketball player.

Re: athletes

elliott on 5/14/03 at 11:01 (118688)

Kurtis, check out this link:

http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/0180.htm

[]

Re: athletes

monte on 5/14/03 at 11:15 (118690)

Elliott

Re: athletes

monte on 5/14/03 at 11:20 (118691)

Elliott...sorry about the last post. Hit enter too soon.

I read this article and it sounds good. But, they are doing each exercise while standing and even one barefoot. This is supposed to be something that we try to stay away from. I would like to try them, but am afraid. I guess that stretching while off my feet has been burned into my mind.
Monte

Re: athletes

Sharon W on 5/14/03 at 11:55 (118696)

Monte, Elliott,

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe it depends what stage of PF you're in, or how much flexibility problems or inflamed tendons you have, whether or not it's a good idea to do the standing stretches.

But it's a TERRIFIC article -- thanks for posting this, Elliott!

Sharon
:)

Re: athletes

john h on 5/14/03 at 14:17 (118723)

Question: Other than on this board has anyone read any scientific or medical article that states we should not do any stretching for the feet,legs,etc while standing. It seems every article I have read for PF recommends some of the same stretches which include the runners stretch, use of the incline board for a stretch,etc. We have all, it seems, agreed that weight bearing stretches is bad. The scientific community does not seem to agree with us. Need we talk about this more or reconsider our position?

Re: athletes

monte on 5/14/03 at 14:22 (118725)

It IS confusing when you hear the two schools of thought. I am going to try to see if it actually hurts more to do it standing. I like to do the calf rocker, and you have to stand for that.
I would be curious to hear the thoughts.

Re: athletes

john h on 5/14/03 at 14:29 (118726)

Elliott: Excelent article. Odd, I had just posted that I thought we should open up the issue on stretching as the board members it seems (including me) had somehow come to the conclusion that weight bearing stretechs was bad for the feet. This inspite of all the medical articles I have read being very much to the contrary. It would seem if you are in some critical phase of PF that you should be careful with your stretching but every doctor I have ever seen for this (to many to count) always gives me stretching exercises and they are weight bearing exercises.

Re: athletes

dave r on 5/14/03 at 14:44 (118729)

Actually Kurtis alot of us use to be athletes or very athletic. thats how we got pf in the first place

Re: athletes

D.Thomas on 5/14/03 at 14:48 (118730)

The standing stretches have worked for some people. I have a family friend who had PF and I would watch him do very aggresive weight bearing stretches. He told me his Doctor told him to do it that way. He said they helped him and his PF went away in time.

Before my PF became chronic, I used to do the stair stretch where you let the back of your feet hang off the edge and let the ankles drop. This would help stretch them out and wouldn't create too much pain. But, when my pain got really bad a couple of years later, any amount of weight bearing stretches only made things much worse and I would get burning sensations the next day. It is easy to tell when I over did it the next day.

I think weight bearing stretches is OK if it doesn't keep re-injurying your feet.

But, I will say that non-weight bearing stretches haven't done anything for me. It hasn't made the pain worse, but it hasn't made me feel any better either.

I will admit that one Pod had me doing the wall stretch and he told me to barely push in and squat down when doing it (i.e., be very gently and not to push it at all). I didn't think it was doing anything because I couldn't feel it streching at all. Well to my surprise, I did start getting better. However, being the intelligent person that I am, I ended up on a ladder for a day doing housework and it put me back to square one. Now, everytime I try any form of weight bearing streches, I simply over do it. With Chronic PF, it is EXTREMELY tough to know when you are over stretching using a weight bearing stretch.

I have tried not to strecth at all for a time and that doesn't help at all either.

It's a tough call.

Re: athletes

dave r on 5/14/03 at 14:50 (118731)

John i read an article yesterday that compared two groups of people that had pf. One that stretched and one that didnt. After three years both groups where evaluated and the group that didnt do aggressive streching
had better results. Now i cant prove it because i cant find the dam article.

Re: athletes

kurtis b on 5/14/03 at 14:55 (118732)

Dave, clearly there are loads of former athletes contributing to the board, the post was specific to what treatments, products or success stories are available for high caliber athletes who are competing as we speak.

In addition, my son is 15years old, not being a Dr. I am curious whether his treatment is different with his type of injury than that of an ex-adult athlete.

Re: athletes

dave r on 5/14/03 at 15:04 (118736)

I would think that since he is young that he has a great chance of getting past this very quickly.

Re: stretching for PF...

Suzanne D on 5/14/03 at 15:36 (118749)

Great article, Elliott. Thanks!

When my PF pain was bad, I tried to avoid weight-bearing exercises. But then I accidentally stumbled onto one that seemed to help me, so I did it often.

Standing in the classroom near my children's desks, my legs and feet would hurt, of course. Once, while standing, I placed the front part of my foot on the base of one of the student's desks. The legs of the desks were joined at the bottom on each side by a flat metal bar about an inch or so high.

I would feel my calves stretch while doing this. While it 'pulled', it did not seem to be hurting me, and often my feet would feel a little better when I walked away. So I started doing that often throughout the day - just for a minute or two at a time - sometimes with first one foot, then the other, sometimes with both feet at the same time. I suppose it had the effect of using a slant board which some people have described.

When my pain was the worst, my calf muscles were very tight. As my feet got better, they were less and less tight. Or perhaps as the muscles stretched, my pain was relieved. Whatever the case, there was a definite correlation.

I never mentioned this little stretching exercise I stumbled upon as I was afraid it might encourage someone to do some weight-bearing routines that might hurt them. But since we are discussing this, I thought I would bring it up now.

Suzanne :-)

Re: stretching for PF...

Pam S. on 5/14/03 at 15:44 (118752)

Hello Friends:
I am currently nursing a bad flare up. The price I pay for a trip out of town on my feet alot. I just spoke to a physical therapist who said that trigger points in the soleus can contribute to PF pain and can, in some cases, actually be the CAUSE of foot pain, PF etc. She recommended trigger point injection in my soleus as I have a bad one in my left leg and that foot is the worse one right now.

She said there are not too many docs who even understand or believe in trigger points or know how to treat them. When she pressed down on this area of my leg I thought I would die. What do all of my'non doc' but very smart friends think of this. Thanks, Pam

Re: athletes

john h on 5/14/03 at 16:04 (118757)

Dave: I have avoided weight bearing exercises for some times because of what I have read here but most medical journals and doctors still prescribe the typical weight bearing stretches. I do not know who is right. Seems the medical world could come to some consensus on this. I guess it works for some and hurts others so like that old 60's mantra goes 'If it feels good do it'!

Re: For Pam

Sharon W on 5/14/03 at 17:11 (118760)

Pam,

You really should talk to Carmen about that one. She did extensive research into trigger point therapy, then found a therapist and got some relief from it. (She said her calves felt better afterward.) Carmen isn't posting very often anymore, but if you post to her on the 'social' board by name, she may answer.

Nice to see, at least, that you got back from your trip safe and sound! Other than perhaps 'overdoing,' and triggering a flareup, how did it go??

Sharon
:)

Re: For Pam

Pam S. on 5/14/03 at 20:15 (118772)

Thx for asking, Sharon. I had a really fun time. A girlfriend trip with lots of shopping which meant on my feet all day for several days. Wow. At the time I was pretty good, but after I got home I was very tired and now my TTS release foot is killing me right in the arch area. I am wearing the night splint. Do you think the splint would help at all? I have no heel pain , only arch, and good range of motion, according to the pt I saw today. She did not understand why I was wearing the night splint. (That is what that nice otho. ped. told me to do a few weeks ago) It is discouraging for THAT foot to bother me. IT should be PERFECT....

I must say the compression socks really did help on the trip. Does your PF bother you? Probably the PN bothers you more. I hope you are doing well these days. You are so impressive and helpful to so many of us in your responses to people.

I did receive the cream. It is 5% keto, 1%flexerile, 1%neurontin. Who knows if it will help or even get absorbed that well. I have been applying it twice a day for the past week. Sometimes I forget to use it.
I will move over to the social board now.

Re: For Pam

Sharon W on 5/14/03 at 22:26 (118788)

Pam,

I don't know what I'm talking about, of course, but 1% Neurontin doesn't seem like all that much...

I'm glad you had fun on your trip, though! Sometimes, it seems like we just have to go for it. Who wants to live all the rest of her life inside an eggshell, afraid her fragile feet will 'break' if she DARES to use them in a normal way -- even just for a couple of days?! There just seems to be this need to break out once in a while, even though we know we'll probably have to pay a price later on.

(I probably shouldn't have said that, it's not very wise advice. But it IS human nature.)

Sharon
:-/

Re: Check out this link about stretching

dave r on 5/15/03 at 07:45 (118810)

http://www.aofas.org/02summer/200207140724.asp

Re: Check out this link about stretching

monte on 5/15/03 at 10:05 (118828)

what is the stretch they had them perform?

Re: Check out this link about stretching

dave r on 5/15/03 at 10:09 (118829)

I am not sure but i would bet that strengthening the toes like the personal foot trainer does would work great..

Re: Check out this link about stretching

monte on 5/15/03 at 10:12 (118830)

i have one and have been thinking about using it....it think i will start to do some exercises with it...very slow, of course.

how about bending the toes back while kneeling on your feet on the floor?

Re: Check out this link about stretching

dave r on 5/15/03 at 10:19 (118834)

That would work. I know what you mean about being very careful. i have never been able to really do any wieght bearing stretches without reinjury.
I will say that since i had surgery on my foot that i am able to stretch it more.I also believe that since i dont do any weight bearing stretches that i have lost alot of flexability in my calf muscle and achilles. So i guess its a horse apiece. Whats the right thing to do? Every doc i have ever seen says the same thing. Stretch,stretch stretch. I believe that most people are very flexable and those of us with really bad pf end up loosing the ability to stretch without reinjury. This probably causes other long term problems. At least in my case

Re: Check out this link about stretching

monte on 5/15/03 at 10:25 (118836)

i have one and have been thinking about using it....it think i will start to do some exercises with it...very slow, of course.

how about bending the toes back while kneeling on your feet on the floor?