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Time to take action

Posted by Jen L on 6/15/03 at 17:11 (121939)

Being a loyal reader to the board for a long time, I believe that most patients have learned a lot of valuable information provided by the doctors. Dr Ed Davis is, without a doubt, one of the most important posters. Do we think we just sit and do nothing when we are going to be deprived of his help just because of a very few people who tried to threaten and scare, exaggerate and dramatize by finding fault in a doctor's reasonable answer to a patient's ask for help?

As a patient in pain looking for help I don't want the information so critical to my health censored or the device market monopolized due to current rules set by some authority. If someone with unknown purposes tries to drive one of OUR doctors away by making absurd accusations I think we should stop him!
I am asking the board owner, or the monitors to do anything necessary NOW. I hope you will extend the effort into future in order to prevent this kind of thing happen again.
Any other visitors, if you agree with me please make you voice known.
Thank you all.


Re: Time to take action

Dr. Z on 6/15/03 at 17:25 (121940)


I agree with you 100%. Dr. Ed is one of the most important posters. I enjoy his presence here. There was a time when I was the only one willing to answer day in and day out questions from posters in need until he showed up one day and didn't leave . He will be missed but I hope he will come back. There are a few people on this board that have tried to drive Dr. Z away also. Just yesteday Elliott out of no where posted some very outrageous comments about me whether true or not had nothing to do with the post.
The question is how to handle these attacks. Since I have been thru these cycles of attacks I realize that they won't go away and will never disappear.
It makes you stronger and more determined to help people. Dr. Ed will realize this and come back to where his heart is and that is helping people on heelspurs.com
Should people be removed from this board. Well there are days that I wish some of the posters would just disappear but then they keep you on your toes.
Time is the healer of almost anything but plantar fasciitis so lets just give this some and you will see what happens.
Now if we want to remove some people from this board well. Where do I hand in my short list .

Re: Time to take action

Peter R on 6/15/03 at 17:33 (121945)

It would help if all the profesionals who post here avoid future problems by simply limiting their posting to answering medical ?'S- no office phone #'s or names- no suggestion of fee costs- no direct discussions of insurance coverage. Doctors and those who provide medical services to doctors and patients should answer all other ?'s via their personal e-mail or by direct contact if they want to take that route.

Re: Time to take action

Dr. Z on 6/15/03 at 17:46 (121947)

I will do what ever makes this board work but here is just a list off the top of my head of some of the accusations made by posters since I first came to this board. The purpose of this is just to show you that eventually if you put youself in the spot light everything is going to be thrown at you. Its part of the territory.
1. This doctor should be put in jail for illegal importatation of the orbie. First day I came to this board and told everyone I had an ESWT machine. 1999
2.Makes up results. These patients are real. When we had the section for ESWT results
3. Illegal marketing of an ESWT machine
4. Makes up stats
5. If he is doing so many ESWT procedures he must not be treating plantar fasciiis correctly. Something like that.
6. Violation of patient-Doctor Confidentially
7.Stealing patients
I think you get the point. If you are going to be in the spotlight this is the territory that comes with it.
I don't like what happed to Dr. ED. and I will defend him to the end only because he is a good man but we are playing with some big companies out there who take no prisoners.

Re: Time to take action

BGCPed on 6/15/03 at 20:25 (121956)

I was gone and didnt see what happened to Dr Ed. I know he has a strong mind so whatever it was must have been pretty harsh for him to leave. Hope he returns if for nothing other than to piss off the person that wanted him gone

Re: Time to take action

wendyn on 6/15/03 at 21:28 (121959)

Pete R - if you feel the need to suggest any form of censorship or restriction on who can post what....you need to talk to Scott who runs this board.

I think he's at (email removed)

If that doesn't work - let me know.

It would be his decision to implement the type of rules you suggest. If he doesn't feel it's necessary, then you'll be free to move on to other topics. If he does feel it's necessary, I'm sure he'll thank you for your suggestion.

Re: Time to take action

Sharon W on 6/15/03 at 23:36 (121963)


Amen to that!


Re: Time to take action

Sharon W on 6/15/03 at 23:38 (121964)

Jen L,

I agree with you.


Re: Time to take action

Sharon W on 6/16/03 at 00:14 (121966)

I see nothing wrong with Doctors listing their own names, or having their e-mail addresses and office phone numbers posted at the top of the message board page. In fact, considering that we all enjoy the mask of anonymity, I think it shows considerable integrity and courage for the doctors here to identify themselves by name and profession. They know that anyone who chooses to can easily check them out on the web.

Since 'our' doctors AREN'T anonymous like everyone else, they obviously do run a serious personal risk if they mention fees or availability for ANY treatment that isn't specifically approved by the FDA -- even if they do so while trying to answer a patient's questions. If you meant to point out that it would be much safer for the doctor to simply ask the poster to continue the discussion by e-mail (rather than put himself at risk), I agree!! I certainly wouldn't want to see this situation happen again!

My main concern is for the DOCTORS' protection and safety, not for posters who may be annoyed or inconvenienced by reading about this issue. Because of this week's dispute here on the ESWT board, we might indeed have lost Dr. Ed forever, and that's a disaster that the Heelspurs message boards would not soon overcome. We certainly couldn't afford to lose any MORE of 'our' doctors, in the same way...!

In any case, Wendy is right that it's up to Scott R to do something about this, since the monitors have obviously chosen to watch and wait at this point.


Re: Time to take action

john h on 6/16/03 at 08:12 (121975)

From a patients viewpoint we certainly want to know who treats PF with ESWT, where they are located, and any other information the doctors or clinics care to give us. People harping about advertising and all the other minor stuff need to get a life. I have never deleted a post because that is a big responsibility but I was getting ready to. For at least a few days we are somewhat back to normal

Re: Time to take action

Kathy R. on 6/16/03 at 09:42 (121984)

I am new to the board, at least in posting, but I have read alot of the post and I have really enjoyed Dr. Eds comments. I own my own business also
so I deal with competitors all the time. For the most part they are pretty
cordial and respectful but once in awhile you will come across others who want to bring you down. They are all rooting for you to get ahead but dont want you to get ahead of them.It really is a dog eat dog world out there.
I understand Dr Eds point of view on all the bureaucratic B.S. as I read alot of his thoughts. It is a shame that people cant have access to alot of equipment and medicine that work do to regulations.I hope he will join back in soon. I was considering possibly going to Seattle (I live in Boise)
to possibly have that ESWT or EWST done on my foot. I think I can get it done around here somewhere but Dr. Ed actually seems like a Dr. who gives a darn. I learned more on this site then either one of my Docs!!!

Re: Time to take action

Ed Davis, DPM on 6/16/03 at 09:42 (121985)


See my post below concerning editing. Your suggestion could be incorporated into editing standards for this site. We are at a juncture in which Scott R. must decide if he wants to emulate the 'National Enquirer' or the 'New York Times.' I realize this analogy is a bit of an exaggeration but the point is that some editorial standards must exist here if the site is going to attract and maintain individuals interested in associating themselves with a quality site.


Re: Time to take action

Sharon W on 6/16/03 at 10:09 (121989)


It will take a LONG time before things can get 'back to normal' without Dr. Ed -- even though the debate may be dying down. Dr. Ed has become part of the heart and soul of these message boards -- and he has answered questions on ALL of them, freely giving us large amounts of his (obviously) valuable time.


Re: Time to take action

Aly R. on 6/16/03 at 10:12 (121990)

I've only been on the board for a month or two, and in that time I've often been shocked by the attacks that certain posters (we all know who they are) aim at the doctors. This site is the first place I've been able to get such detailed information on my condition, and for the first time I've had doctors take a genuine interest in helping me. I find it offensive that the very people who are volunteering their time to provide info and support are being pestered by these few people. I hate to say it, but their angry discourse just brings the overall quality of the site down.

If a poster is repeatedly unable to maintain a respectful tone on the board, I for one believe he/she should be permanently blocked from the site.

Re: Time to take action

Sharon W on 6/16/03 at 10:15 (121992)

Dr. Ed,

You, yourself, were named to the monitor committee by Scott. I don't mean to be nosy or impertinent -- but couldn't you just ask Scott for the message deletion code? (Or did you refuse the appointment?)


Re: Time to take action

john h on 6/16/03 at 10:47 (121993)

Sharon I am one of the first to say the Doctors and other foot professionals are very important to the board. Over the years we have had several cases of people come on to the board and create disturbances. I could name names but we all generally know who they are.. I do not know that I have the technological power to 'delete' anyone from making a post. I think only Scott can do that. Aside from a monitor deleting a post one of the best ways to deal with people who create havoc is to completely ignore their post and do not respond. Everytime you respond to one of these people you provide them with exactly what they want and that is attention. Ignore them and they eventually go away. I saw a post on the social board a moment ago that I think should be deleted. Unfortunately I am at my office and do not have the code with me.

When one gets the responsibility to edit other peoples post it must be used very carefully. Dr. Ed and Dr. Z have been here a long time and along with Sunny have provided information and advice we could get no where else. The people who critisize them have an agenda which I do not understand and offer the rest of us nothing.

Re: Time to take action

Ed Davis, DPM on 6/16/03 at 14:19 (122009)


I was not aware that I was on the 'committee.' I would think that if Scott refuses to delete a post upon request, then he would not give me the ability. Perhaps he will change his mind on that. The other need is to place a block on those posters who are out of line.

Re: Time to take action

JudyS on 6/16/03 at 18:04 (122021)

It seems to me, as a REALLY LOOOOOONG time poster, that John h has hit the nail on the head. Just ignore the antagonistic posts. Some folks thrive on the attention their antagonism attracts - that's their agenda. Let's not give them the chance. Why worry about editing, deletions and censures when the answer can be pretty simple.

Re: Time to take action

D.Thomas on 6/16/03 at 18:13 (122025)

Totally agree.

Re: Time to take action

Sharon W on 6/16/03 at 18:27 (122030)


Ordinarily, I would agree with you on that, but this time I can't. There is another issue here besides the usual problems with antagonistic posters, who are best ignored.

Dr. Ed was was accused of illegal practices and threatened, professionally -- a threat that might cause him some serious legal problems -- and he has stopped posting as a result of that. I would REALLY like to get him back; we need him here. He has become an important part of Heelspurs.


Re: Time to take action

JudyS on 6/16/03 at 19:01 (122035)

Sharon I hasten to agree with you. In fact, I must correct myself. I made some preliminary assumptions before I'd read the entire content of the threads involved, then wrote my opinion based those incomplete and incorrect assumptions. My self-rightiousness got ahead of me because I really enjoy Ed's participation here. Thanks for helping me with my own correction :)

Re: Time to take action

D.Thomas on 6/16/03 at 19:32 (122039)

Wow. I didn't see the real thread either. I thought it was another thread. Doesn't surprise me at all who was involved.

Re: Time to take action

Sharon W on 6/16/03 at 20:20 (122046)

Yes, the 'real' thread was that huge, sprawling one that long ago 'fell off the page'. It is something I have no power to do anything about except to express my support for Dr. Ed.

I didn't mean for my tone to seem sharp or accusatory -- I am just really concerned about this...


Re: Time to take action

Scott R (heelspurs.com's owner) on 6/16/03 at 21:59 (122058)

if i remember correctly, Dr Ed refused to use be one of those who has the power to edit or delete messages. i think i only gave that power to john h and wendyn

Re: Time to take action

Ed Davis, DPM on 6/16/03 at 23:12 (122068)


The issue was discussed quite a while ago so I don't remember the specifics. My impression was that the 'job' was going to be offered to one specific person. I did not feel that I had enough free time to take that responsibility alone. I would accept that responsibility if it was divided among several 'regulars.'

I still feel that the most egregious abuse is when an anonymous individual levels an accusation against one who is not anonymous. The site and board exists to discuss ideas, not personalities so no type of personal attacks should be tolerated. The accusation of wrongdoing or defamation of character may raise the situation to the level of slander and such issues need to be dealt with via removal of the offending posts and a block on the offender. Refusal to do so raises questions as to complicity in the misdeed by those who are responsible for the site's content. I am not trying to level blame here but one must realize what the standards would be in any other media -- TV, newspaper, magazines, etc. I noted that recently John deleted some heavy handed statements by an individual who posted as 'ultra-conservative' on the social board. That individual demonstrated a nasty demeanor but did not attack a specific individual nor did he/she include comments that would have led to defamation of one's character or integrity. That action leads me to ask..... 'What are the standards for editing posts here?'


Re: standards for editing

Scott R (heelspurs.com's owner) on 6/17/03 at 07:36 (122083)

The standards for censoring are clearly stated and are this: 'Be Nice' libel and spam and off-topic posts and many other things fall under that category. heelspurs.com LLC liability increases if it censors or edits posts. if it is a truely free and open board and there were no editing, the liability would be absolutely zero as long as it obeys court orders to remove content. it would not have to remove anything based on anyone's request. to state that a doctor is no good and is engaged in illegal activity is an exercise of free speech and if those claims are wrong, it is up to a court to decide the truth or accuracy and to send a demand to heelspurs.com LLC to remove content...heelspurs.com LLC should not limit someone's free speech.....if it's a truly open board....but i am willing to do as most people here request and to limit 1st amendment rights of the people here for the sake of the board.....but i have not received any request to my email box to remove or edit any post or poster in i think months so i do not why anyone is complaining and ruining this message board with all this pointless discussion.

Re: Time to take action

john h-moderator on 6/17/03 at 09:35 (122095)

I rather suspected that any deletion of any sort would bring a compaint.I had several post that the monitors were not doing their job. In my judgement Ultra Conservatives post was repulsive. Management by commitee or editing by committe is not an effective way of management. Ultimately someone must make a decision. Are we really ready to accept such terms as 'scum bag liberals or scum bag homeless'? I am not You can write a volume of rules on editing and standards but in the final analysis someone has to put some human judgement on it. The effect of such a post detracts from the board and that is my judgement. If any of you think Ultra Conservative's post was appropriate and should stand then stand up and be counted. As I have said before this is Scott's board and he has the authority to delete anything or any poster or remove me as a monitor. He pays the bills and takes the risk. That is the first post I have edited or deleted and I stand by it.