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Is this for real? or not?

Posted by lara on 7/08/03 at 12:46 (123755)

Came across this site when doing a search for another question on this board and wondered if anyone knew anything about it.

http://www.footarch.com/

Re: Is this for real? or not?

HilaryG on 7/08/03 at 13:03 (123756)

This book was discussed on the board only recently. I bought the book and found it to be useless. This man thinks you can create an arch by doing certain exercises.

Re: Is this for real? or not?

Kathy G on 7/08/03 at 14:31 (123763)

Lara,

I am the most cynical person around so I might not be a good person to judge so I'm glad Hilary responded. Usually, if it's too good to be true, it's not true!

Thanks for calling it to our attention, though.

Re: Is this for real? or not?

Dan on 7/08/03 at 20:01 (123787)

As I said in the other thread about this, a quick search reveals this guy to be a Scientologist, and he seems to have several dicey-looking 'medical miracle' products and books, etc. in his past. Steer clear.

Re: Is this for real? or not?

lara on 7/08/03 at 21:30 (123799)

Yea - it kind of sounded 'too good', but when you're desperate, there's always a desire for hope. Thanks for the feedback!

Re: Is this for real? or not?

BGCPed on 7/08/03 at 21:31 (123800)

The Raelians are coming out with their book 'HOW TO CORRECT FLAT FEET IN THE WOMB USING GRAPE KOOL-AIDE AND A SANTARIA CHICKEN BLOOD' A long title indeed, but should eclipse even this Yahoo's drivel as some of the dumbest things I have read.

Wasnt this guy the information minister for Iraq?

Re: Is this for real? or not?

BGCPed on 7/08/03 at 21:32 (123801)

p.s. no offense Lara. This is why I get so mad, people taking advantage of others in pain

Re: Is this for real? or not?

Richard, C.Ped on 7/09/03 at 08:10 (123820)

The next comet to pass by Earth will cure all plantar fasciitis. Trust me. :^o

Re: Is this for real? or not?

lara on 7/09/03 at 08:55 (123829)

I didn't take offense at the first such post, BGC, however, I am concerned about the continuing nature of this. You're right, and I agree with you about anger at charlatans who take advantage of desperate people in pain.

On the other side, traditional medicine doesn't always know what does and doesn't work, and I wouldn't want anyone to be hesitant to ask questions about things they've 'heard about' for fear of embarassment. I also wouldn't want those who were able to give me concrete information because they paid money for the book to feel sheepish about having revealed this.

I learned long ago that most of the time doctors know what I need them do know - but just often enough they don't, so I keep my ears perked up for something that might help - sometimes it's hard to distinguish between what might be helpful and what is snake oil.

I've had doctors who gave similar reactions to my compression socks. Some are just unaware of their potential usefulness, but one doctor referred to it as podiatry medicine - nothing to get upset about as it does not harm, but nothing the high-falutin orthopedic surgeons would touch. This despite the fact that compression socks work. (in fairness, I had another OrthoSurg say 'I'll have to remember that') There are many 'docudramas' of people who found cures for their child that traditional medicine spured. Of course, there is concern on the other side patients start thinking they know more than doctors, which they don't - but on occassion they do know about their symptoms - partiuclarly something that isn't a common ailment. This isn't a criticism of doctors or medicine. Doctors can't know everything, particularly as the amount of knowledge to be known keeps expanding.

So, making fun of the charlatan does not offend me. Making fun of people who believe charlatans (which is where I fear this is heading) does offend me.

Re: Is this for real? or not?

lara on 7/09/03 at 08:57 (123830)

I didn't take offense at the first such post, BGC, however, I am concerned about the continuing nature of this. You're right, and I agree with you about anger at charlatans who take advantage of desperate people in pain.

On the other side, traditional medicine doesn't always know what does and doesn't work, and I wouldn't want anyone to be hesitant to ask questions about things they've 'heard about' for fear of embarassment. I also wouldn't want those who were able to give me concrete information because they paid money for the book to feel sheepish about having revealed this.

I learned long ago that most of the time doctors know what I need them do know - but just often enough they don't, so I keep my ears perked up for something that might help - sometimes it's hard to distinguish between what might be helpful and what is snake oil.

I've had doctors who gave similar reactions to my compression socks. Some are just unaware of their potential usefulness, but one doctor referred to it as podiatry medicine - nothing to get upset about as it does not harm, but nothing the high-falutin orthopedic surgeons would touch. This despite the fact that compression socks work for some. (in fairness, I had another OrthoSurg say 'I'll have to remember that') There are many 'docudramas' of people who found cures for their child that traditional medicine spurned. Of course, there is concern on the other side patients start thinking they know more than doctors, which they don't - but on occassion they do know about their symptoms - partiuclarly something that isn't a common ailment. This isn't a criticism of doctors or medicine. Doctors can't know everything, particularly as the amount of knowledge to be known keeps expanding.

So, making fun of the charlatan does not offend me. Making fun of people who believe charlatans (which is where I fear this is heading) does offend me.

Re: Is this for real? or not?

BGCPed on 7/09/03 at 09:00 (123831)

I will start a new treatment center. I will cure pf over the internet. You will put your foot against the speaker while I speak pig latin. I am somehow connected to a tiki god that gives me special powers. The medical community will poo poo this to protect all of the greedy profiteers. Insurance companies will fear my system as well.

Trust me just send me a tracking number to your account and we can get started

Re: Is this for real? or not?

john h on 7/09/03 at 09:13 (123835)

your age is showing BG. Pig Latin sort of went the way of the hula hoop. How about speaking Espiranto.

Re: Is this for real? or not?

BGCPed on 7/09/03 at 09:14 (123836)

Well let me say first, I never make fun of people that are curious or want to read up on anything. I do however feel it is open season on guys like this. He makes blanket claims and spends 2/3 of website slamming others and warning the reader how much resistance you will get from others.

From a biomechanical standpoint his 'theory' hold about as much water as a pasta strainer. Now if a persons foot feels better after they do toe lifts and crumble paper with their arch/toes thats great. To claim pronated feet cause most all lower extremity issues and that doing certain movements with the foot will grow an arch is hogwash.

If he said go out in your yard and rub dandelions on your heel thats great. When you are selling a book with very shaky medical advice I have a huge problem with it.

So sorry if it came that way but I dont think my little rant should discourage an adult from reading or believing what they want

Re: Is this for real? or not?

BGCPed on 7/09/03 at 09:15 (123837)

Buddy Ebson (sp) just died and I remember that also

Re: Is this for real? or not?

john h on 7/09/03 at 09:19 (123838)

Lara: Many of us have resorted to things far beyond compression socks which are really main stream. If you have a vericose vein in your tarsal tunnel then compression socks may very well be a main stream treatment for the condition. I have used compression socks, herbs, emuu oil, wheatgrass, accupuncture, the sock and about 3 other night splints, sugery, 4 rounds of ESWT, shots, stretching, not stretching, soft,hard,and semi rigid orthotics, contrast baths, tens unit, all kinds of shoes and anything else anyone thows out there. I am not uneducated and have a reasonably scientific mind so i am open to most anything as many of us are. If BG can talk to my feet he can give it his best shot and they will listen.

Re: Is this for real? or not?

lara on 7/09/03 at 09:24 (123840)

You post was fine. It probably got lost in my wordiness, but I don't have a problem with making fun of charlatans. I agree with your anger at those who prey on people vulnerable.

Re: Is this for real? or not?

lara on 7/09/03 at 09:30 (123841)

I'm sorry, I think I wasn't very clear in my post. When I reread my post, I saw it and thought I should edit it, but didn't know how since I'd already posted it. To clarify, I don't think compression socks work for everyone! I know differently, and didn't mean to imply that people who don't use compression socks aren't working hard enough or some other thing. I jsut meant they work for some people, they work for me, and they aren't quasi-treatments of podiatrists that should be shunned by the orthopods. Always, they should only be used in appropriate cases and shouldn't be expected to work for everyone.

I realize compression socks are fairly mainstream (which is why I picked it as an example, but maybe I should have picked something else) although in my neighborhood, they aren't considered good medicine for TTS by some orthopods (which is also why I picked them as an example).

Re: Is this for real? or not?

lara on 7/09/03 at 09:31 (123842)

If it's free, I'd give it a try. ARe you going to charge for this?

Re: Is this for real? or not?

lara on 7/09/03 at 10:01 (123846)

RESPONSE TO: So sorry if it came that way but I dont think my little rant should discourage an adult from reading or believing what they want

I can't tell whether you are really sorry about it or not. Some of your words sound sincere, but then you justify your actions as if they don't/couldn't/shouldn't have any negative effect on others and its not a concern to you. My issue wasn't that you had done this with your first post - when I first responded. My concern was with subsequent posts by others, building on yours, and where it might lead.

What I feared seems to have occurred. If you agree (the generic you meaning anyone reading this, not singling you out), then take the information, file it, and use it appropriately. If you don't agree, then post whatever you want without considering this. There's very little censorship around here.

To be clear:
My issue isn't with making fun of charlatans.
My issue isn't with people who believe what they want to believe.
There is (at least) a(another) group of people who aren't sure what to believe and as they come across things, want to ask people who know more than they do AND within this group are those who will be reticent to ask if they think they will be belitted by those who know more.

Re: Is this for real? or not?

lara on 7/09/03 at 10:17 (123847)

PREVIOUS POST:I will start a new treatment center. I will cure pf over the internet. You will put your foot against the speaker while I speak pig latin. I am somehow connected to a tiki god that gives me special powers. The medical community will poo poo this to protect all of the greedy profiteers. Insurance companies will fear my system as well.
Trust me just send me a tracking number to your account and we can get started

BGC: I'm confused and not sure the purpose of this post. This sounds like something a charlatan would claim but I'm sure you don't mean that.

Re: Is this for real? or not?

Sharon W on 7/09/03 at 10:22 (123848)

Lara,

You are right -- not every person who comes to these boards has any medical knowledge whatsoever, and it is just human nature to be looking for an easy, cheap, 'miracle' cure. Especially since, for many medical problems, there IS an easy, cheap, 'miracle' cure does exist -- something like an antibiotic. We have all grown accustomed to the idea that you go to the doctor, he gives you the cure, you get better and forget it ever happened... So there is no cause for belittling someone who dares to hope that such a cure has been found for their foot problem.

It's just too bad that there ISN'T a 'miracle' cure for PF or TTS (or, for that matter, PN...)

Sharon
:-?

Re: Is this for real? or not?

BGCPed on 7/09/03 at 10:37 (123849)

I was sincere in my explaination. I think it is open season on people like that book seller. I have a bit different view on a persons ability to read everything and dismiss or buy in to any form of information. The thing about the web is ANYBODY can SAY anything or publish an article and it almost becomes fact, as in 'I saw it on tv so it must be true'

Becuase of the freedom to post anything I think a strong rebut of obvious questionable and profit basewd information should be pointed out. If Dr Z or Dr Ed debated a certain idea it is civil debate. When something is posted, based on profit and filled with outright lies to some truths then it should be called on with a bit less, shall I say respect?

Again I am not poking fun at anyone, I read his site myself, which is what I would expect a person to do, and determined it to be out there imho.
Hope that clears it up

Re: Is this for real? or not?

lara on 7/09/03 at 11:33 (123855)

RESPONSE TO: Again I am not poking fun at anyone, I read his site myself, which is what I would expect a person to do, and determined it to be out there imho. Hope that clears it up

It clears up your intent. Thank you. I'm glad to hear it.

I'm not sure it clears up the effect of your comments. First, I'm not sure what was 'out there' - the book (which no one has supported), or someone asking if the book was legitimate or 'out there' (which is what started this all). I assume you don't want to discourage people asking about things that sound strange (some of them turn out to work)?

Also, if that's your intent, why would you post a clearly stupid treatment and ask for $ - in jest I presume - I don't get how that pokes fun at charlatans as opposed to those who might consider something they don't understand but are desperate. My impression is that it makes more fun of those who seek the treatment.

Re: Is this for real? or not?

BGCPed on 7/09/03 at 13:50 (123866)

Well if I may try to explain. When a person that specializes in this field reads a site that makes many claims it should be called out by people that have some background. I am the first to admit that there are doubters in the medical field and change to some is difficult. There are many reasons, ego, training, stubborness, financial and inablity to admit being wrong are a few.

So whats the big deal if a few hundred spend the money for the book? Well nothing except a person is making money off of others pain and willingness to try anything. That is fine since majority of practitioners have good intent but may be wrong in their dx or tx.

I just felt with the accusation and claims made by this book and its website it needed a red flag thrown up. If a person is not willing or able to make a rational choice after reading the site that is not my fault. If they take my word, feel bad and dont explore it further that is their fault as well.

Lastly I think that the motive to limit that persons profit from that type of marketing is more important than the feelings of a few people that would not buy or try something that they determined to be of value.

Re: Is this for real? or not?

lara on 7/09/03 at 15:17 (123882)

I certainly understand your anger against (and appreciate!)and efforts to prevent charlatans from profiting from their misinformation.

I'm still not clear how your posting a clearly stupid treatment and asking for $ -in jest I presume - prevents people from being taken in by charlatans, and is not mocking people who either have been taken in by a charlatan or are trying to determine if an alternative is proffered by a charlatan.

Re: Is this for real? or not?

lara on 7/09/03 at 15:18 (123883)

I certainly understand your anger against (and appreciate!)and efforts to prevent charlatans from profiting from their misinformation. Charlatans are a curse on medicine - both traditional and legitimate alternative medicine.

I'm still not clear how your posting a clearly stupid treatment and asking for $ -in jest I presume - prevents people from being taken in by charlatans, and is not mocking people who either have been taken in by a charlatan or are trying to determine if an alternative is proffered by a charlatan.

Re: Is this for real? or not?

Ed Davis, DPM on 7/09/03 at 15:58 (123885)

Lara:

Compression socks are a well recognized and accepted modality and are very much part of traditional medicine. If a doctor, orthopedic or not, poo-poohed thier effectiveness, that individual would be demonstrating ignorance of the literature that shows that a percentage (about 25%) of TTS is caused by varicosities in the tarsal tunnel.

There are significant limitations of traditional medicine and 'non-traditional' medicine has moved in to help fill that gap. When looking at non-traditional modalities, one should use the same level of discretion and critical review that would be reserved for any treatment. A non-traditional modality must be based on logical principles and those espousing those treatments must show a willingness to debate the merits of those treatments. Be on the lookout for exaggerated claims -- promoters of traditional therapies are cautious in that area so promoters of no-traditional treamtments should use a similar level of discretion. Occasionally, modalities that we term 'non-traditonal' are accepted as mainstream treatments in other countries. For example, Germany has it's 'Commission E' which assesses the value of a number of herbal remedies.
Ed

Re: Is this for real? or not?

BGCPed on 7/09/03 at 16:29 (123886)

My point exactly. Why assume that what I posted was 'clearly stupid treatment and asking for $' when it could in fact be a valid treatment in the minds of some?

Sorry but I think we are just coming from 2 different angles here

Re: Is this for real? or not?

marie on 7/09/03 at 20:06 (123901)

Lara,

I am just as confused as you are in this post. One thing I learned a long, long time ago is to try not to use sarcasim in my classroom. It may be funny to some but it can be misconstrued as an insult by others. BG probably sees alot more of this kind of thing on a daily basis and has used a little sarcasim to field his emotions on the subject of charlatins and patients who think they've discovered the next cure. I am sure on the doctor's point of view claims of miracle cures are probably frustrating for them. Especially if it interferes with their treatment. I did read the sight and it seemed to be a little to good to be true but I appreciate you posting it because I would have never known about this Dr. and his book otherwise. If you or anyone else has benefited or not benefited from it I'd be interested in hearing their comments.

Thanks Lara!
mmarie