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Edict: social board no longer for political discourse

Posted by Scott R on 9/27/03 at 12:27 (131232)

OK, this problem keeps croming up, so i'll make a rule: no more political discussion. i have let the social board be a 'free-for-all' too long....it really needs to keep in theme with the web site and help sufferers. social/support board is now the 'social support board' meaning, not for social (everything) AND support (help) anymore, but strictly, socializing only for the purpose of helping socially and emotionally SUPPORT sufferers.

no more political discussion on any boards



Re: Problem???

Ed Davis, DPM on 9/27/03 at 13:05 (131233)

ScottR:

You have termed political discussion here a 'problem.' Why?

There are those who like and those who don't like political discussions. No one is forced to read a post nor participate in a thread in which the subject is offensive to them. Readers and posters are free to chose posts and the boards they participate in.

Ed

Re: Problem???

Scott R on 9/27/03 at 13:08 (131234)

it's a problem because i periodically get complaints about the message boards hosting too much political discussion. i need to try to keep the boards related to heel pain anyway

Re: Problem???

Kathy G on 9/27/03 at 13:17 (131236)

I sincerely thank you, Scott, for taking this action. As I have said on countless occasions, there are many forums for political discussion and debate on the internet, but this is not one of them.

I am hopeful that our Social Board can return to the warm, supportive place that it had been before all of this started.

Re: Problem???

Ed Davis, DPM on 9/27/03 at 13:19 (131237)

ScottR :

Such discussions are only confined to one board, usually the social board.
How many complaints do you actually get? How about posts unrelated to heel pain that are also not related to politics -- ie. is the social board just to be a light hearted chat room for people to talk about the weather and their favorite foods?

One of my beefs on this site is the use of the site by advertisers of certain products pretending to give unbiased advice on the boards. I beleive that those individuals should be required to attach a disclaimer to their posts, advising readers of their interest in the products they are pushing.

Ed

Re: Problem???

Kathy G on 9/27/03 at 13:33 (131238)

Ed,

Yes, it should be a silly chat room about weather and our favorite foods if that's what we choose to discuss! To many of us, politics is not social but there has been no room of late for discussion of anything other than political subjects. I might remind you that while you serve a wonderful purpose on these boards by sharing your knowledge about foot ailments, you don't actually suffer from one. Maybe those of us who do are seeking refuge from the real world when we come here and don't want to discuss serious subjects that can so easily become contentious.

I don't mean to say that prior to all this political talk, we sounded like a bunch of hypochondriacs. I've discovered some support boards for physical ailments that seem to be just that. This board was unique in that we had a diverse group of people from many georgraphic locations who enjoyed sharing our life experiences with one another. We discovered that while PF was the link that brought us here, we also had many other things in common.

You say that we don't have to participate in political discourse. Conversely, neither do you have to participate in discourse that you find trite.

Re: Problem???

Ed Davis, DPM on 9/27/03 at 13:36 (131239)

Kathy:
Per your last sentence -- but we are not banning 'trite' dialogue here, political discussion has been banned -- the choice you imply exists nor longer does.
Ed

Re: Problem???

Kathy G on 9/27/03 at 13:43 (131241)

No, it doesn't because this is Scott's website and he's deemed to make it apolitical.

Re: Problem???

Ed Davis, DPM on 9/27/03 at 13:48 (131242)

Kathy:
Hate to break the news to you but more than 50% of the cases of heel pain on this site are probably directly or indirectly related to the politics of healthcare. This site is about an easily cured problem that, for political reasons, often does not get cured. Why? I can no longer discuss it on this site. You just cannot escape from reality via censorship. It is Scott's site and he can do what he wants with it.
Ed

Re: Edict: social board no longer for political discourse

Julie on 9/27/03 at 14:32 (131250)

Scott, my grateful thanks to you for clearly stating the purpose of the social board. It was once as you say, for support for sufferers. I'm so glad you've decided that that is what it should be again. I am sure that now you have spoken it will once again become a safe place for people in pain.

All the best,

Julie

Re: Edict: social board no longer for political discourse

Ed Davis, DPM on 9/27/03 at 14:37 (131251)

Julie:
Congrats Julie. You got your wishes. It has always been a safe place for people in pain -- the free discourse of ideas does not make a place unsafe. Eventually, censorship does.
Ed

Re: Problem???

BGCPed on 9/27/03 at 14:47 (131252)

Wow I hope I didnt contribute to this? Is there a certain number of complaints that must filed like a petition? If a certain number come in that subject gets banned?

As some pointed out reading about a recipe or something may bother a few, do you a, read it anyway ,knowing you will get irked further or b, skip it and not let it ruin your day?

Scott I respecfully ask you this. What if you made another section for 'hot topics' the title alone would be a pg-13 like warning so no person could accidentally stumble into it and accidentally clic on and accidentally read some item they feel is offensive?

Does anybody think it would work? I bet there would still be some thought police that would complain because its not really about this specific catagory. It is about a person not liking the message and or the poster.

Last question. I find it strange that all of the conservative posters (sorry for the label) but ones that would commonly be called right wing, NEVER have asked for a subject to be off limits. Why is that?

Here I thought all us old conservative white dudes were all for intolerance and rejecting diversity......ironic isnt it?

Re: Problem???

Ed Davis, DPM on 9/27/03 at 14:55 (131253)

BG:

I suspect that the actually of number of individuals requesting censorship of the board were few in number and of a political persuasion not consistent with the promotion of free speech, ie. not conservatives.
Ed

Re: Problem???

Scott R on 9/27/03 at 15:02 (131254)

it isn't that i get a large number of complaints (i do not), it's just that i agree that politics is special in that it can always be on the edge of violating my golden 'be nice' policy. also, it always is not about foot pain. politics directly related to foot pain is ok. thirdly, it takes a lot of writing and i have a space limitation (700 MB) that will soon require me to remove the oldest messages from searches.

i would like to create a new board 'social - misc PG-13' but it has to be seperate from the other boards which requires special programming just as this board requires. this board was meant to keep the feel-good fluff out of the other boards. i don't have the time now to create another 'feel bad flucc' board

Re: Edict: social board no longer for political discourse

Phil C. on 9/27/03 at 15:18 (131259)

Julie:

A 'safe place for people in pain' actually means, to you, a place where people do not challenge your political beliefs. /:)

Phil C.

Re: Problem???

BGCPed on 9/27/03 at 15:22 (131260)

INDEED DR ED

Re: Problem??? Space

Ed Davis, DPM on 9/27/03 at 15:46 (131261)

ScottR:

Marie, in an old post, discussed some rules of net etiquette, including not sending readers all over the net for things. I have done more cutting and pasting as opposed to just providing a link. It is the cutting and pasting of articles that is the most space consuming thing and that is something that can be avoided.

In the abscence of the cutting and pasting of articles, the content of the board should not influence space utilization to a significant degree.

The presentation of a political viewpoint does not have much to do with the 'be nice' policy. It is, at times, the response of certain individuals, particularly those who answer those posts with personal attacks on the poster, that may be violating the 'be nice' policy. We certainly have had those on other boards (eg. the ESWT Board) who have been in such violation in the last year.

Perhaps, formation of a new board may be helpful, although what will keep the same individuals who have complained to you from migrating to that board and complaining again? A new board basically creates a new space but it is a space that is separated by a very shallow electronic 'wall' that is just as easy to access or not access as any individual post on this board.
Ed

Re: Problem???

Suzanne D on 9/27/03 at 16:14 (131266)

And I add my thanks to you, Scott! When I came here two years ago, I would have never posted even once had the board been then what it has been lately. I would have felt that no one wanted to read about my foot troubles or the depression and frustration they had caused. I would have felt that to be out of place seeing the other posts. And I would have missed a great deal of support and help from the caring people who helped me.

It has been stated many times that people can pick and choose what they want to read. That is true. But it has also been stated that there are other sites at heelspurs.com, and if people aren't comfortable here (with the political posts), they should go to one of the other sites. But there IS no other board here for those discouraged people who want to write about their frustrations and get an understanding reply. The other boards are specific to certain issues/topics and should be kept that way.

I respect everyone's right to their political opinions (and every other type opinion). But surely those who want to post daily about political issues can find a board that will welcome those posts rather than criticize others who want this site to be what it was created to be.

Thank you,
Suzanne

Re: Problem???

Phil C. on 9/27/03 at 16:28 (131272)

Suzanne:

Scott has provided several boards that cover most aspects of heel pain.
There is plenty of place to make posts that cover the spectrum of problems people encounter with heel pain. No one board is so narrow in scope that an individual cannot say what he or she needs to say.

Whether you realize it or not, you are basically asking Scott to push other posters out of the way to make room for your needs. That is selfish. x-(

Many of the providers who have so generously given you their time on the other boards are the ones you are asking to silence on this board -- tsk, tsk, tsk. Don't they deserve a place to vent too? They are not being paid to be here.

Phil C.

Re: Problem???

Dr. Z on 9/27/03 at 16:39 (131275)

Arafat is getting away again.!!!

Re: Problem???

Kathy G on 9/27/03 at 16:41 (131276)

But, Phil, are they venting regarding a foot problem? This is a social support board for people with foot problems not problems with others' political views.

Re: Problem???

Phil C. on 9/27/03 at 16:50 (131279)

Kathy:
You are trying to define what you want the board to be. It has been a general purpose board to discuss everything from politics to social issues for years, not just a 'social support board for people with foot problems.'
Phil C

Re: Thank goodness!

Carole C in NOLA on 9/27/03 at 16:50 (131280)

Thank you, Scott, for helping to return this board to its former wonderful nature; a place where Julie (a liberal, I believe) and me (a conservative) can drop talking about what we DON'T have in common (politics), and instead talk about what we DO have in common. Our misbehaving FEET!! which have not always been so good to us!

Welcome back, Julie. I hope you stay and I have missed you. I too may return more often too if the board reverts to the way it was before.

Carole C

Re: Problem???

Peter R on 9/27/03 at 16:52 (131281)

I have a pain in my foot- do any of the doctors here think that the current republican president's policies in Iraq are the cause of the pain? Does anyone think if the army finds the wmd'S that they are looking for my foot pain will go away? I didn't have foot pain during any democratic administration so I think that the Republicans are the major cause of foot discomfort.

Re: Edict: social board no longer for political discourse

D.Thomas on 9/27/03 at 16:53 (131282)

I was actually thinking about putting up a link to a questionnaire I have been developing to collect some data on PF. Giving the problems that I have had and still have, I really have some things I want to analyze. I am pretty frustrated with the lack of good data to analyze and how things are currently being designed and tested.

I could easily add a message board link to it and I would allow political discussion in a political section. Most message boards in the US today, given 9/11 and Iraq, have made a political area even when it isn't close to the main topic of the board. Allowing political discussion in a separate area really hasn't been a big deal on other boards. I really don't understand why it is here?

Re: Edict: social board no longer for political discourse

Peter R on 9/27/03 at 16:54 (131283)

I have a pain in my foot- do any of the doctors here think that the current republican president's policies in Iraq are the cause of the pain? Does anyone think if the army finds the wmd'S that they are looking for my foot pain will go away? I didn't have foot pain during any democratic administration so I think that the Republicans are the major cause of foot discomfort.

Re: Problem???

Carole C in NOLA on 9/27/03 at 16:56 (131284)

You are so right, Suzanne. When I want to post about politics (and sometimes I do), I go to another message board that is devoted solely to the topic of politics. There, the people talking about politics are really sharp and knowledgeable about that topic and there are some interesting discussions on that topic. But here, it is great to get support and socialize with others who are having to deal with achy feet! You can't get that at a political site.

Carole C

Re: Problem???

Ed Davis, DPM on 9/27/03 at 17:04 (131286)

Peter:
If you get a chance, get a copy of the new paperback, 'The Last Jihad.'
It is very fast reading and a very exciting book. It deals with an 'alternate' reality occurring 10 years in the future in a scenario where Saddam was not stopped, goes on to develop WMD and a plan to use them. If WMD's are used, no one will have to worry about foot pain.
Ed

Re: Problem???

Ed Davis, DPM on 9/27/03 at 17:06 (131287)

Dr. Z:
That was a political post. You are now on the 'to be censored' list.
Ed

Re: Problem???

Carole C in NOLA on 9/27/03 at 17:07 (131288)

You crack me up!!! You assume SO MUCH. Do you happen to think that those who come here to avalanche the board with political posts are the only 'conservatives' who come to this board? That is utterly unreal.

Some of us are sophisticated enough in our political conservatism that we actually dare post about our ideas on a political board, where they might actually be assessed by others of the same interests and more knowledge on the topic. Posting them here among a bunch of crips like me and others is not the bravest thing I've ever seen.

Carole C

Re: space -- the final frontier, ScottR

Ed Davis, DPM on 9/27/03 at 17:07 (131289)

ScottR:

Okay. How much would it cost to buy the extra space so that space is not an issue?
Ed

Re: Edict: social board no longer for political discourse

Ed Davis, DPM on 9/27/03 at 17:11 (131290)

Peter:
Just remember that only Bill Clinton could 'feel your pain.'
Ed

Re: Edict: social board no longer for political discourse

Ed Davis, DPM on 9/27/03 at 17:20 (131292)

D. Thomas:

Please email me at (email removed) with your ideas if you please.
I am frustrated by the lack of good data too. My professional opinion is one of dissapointment with the state of research in a number of health areas. Too many studies are performed with the end goal being a 'product' that can be sold -- eg. drugs, an ESWT machine. I can understand that as being part of capitalism but it can become problematic when it pushes out or becomes a substitute for more basic research. Lets continue the discussion by email so we can leave space for cookie recipies on this board.
Ed

Re: Problem???

Suzanne D on 9/27/03 at 17:27 (131294)

I am not asking anyone to be silent on this board or any other board, Phil. I was thanking Scott for asking that no more political posts be made on this - his board - which he created for socializing and supporting one another - not for espousing political beliefs.

And, yes, there are other boards which cover every aspect of foot pain. But Scott has rightly asked that they be kept 'clean' some time ago. He does not want 'socializing' on those boards so as not to take up to much space and detract from the purpose stated. I respect that.

I'm sorry you are angry with me and feel I am selfish. Let me ask you: how many posts have you made to try to help people or give them advice or support? Perhaps you have made many such attempts. I don't recall. But I do know that I have tried through the two years to be anything but selfish on these boards. I have thanked everyone each time they have helped me and have tried to answer as many questions as I could for others. When I couldn't answer questions, I have tried to give my understanding support to those who are hurting. I don't call that selfish. I'm sorry that since you and I don't agree that you feel free to call me selfish and post mad faces directed toward me. I have never done that to anyone.

Yes, those who help others deserve a place to vent. But I don't call posting political beliefs with the purpose (by their own admission) of trying to sway others to their side to be venting or socializing. Again -aren't there boards for that purpose who would welcome their thoughts and articles?

Suzanne

Re: Problem???

Carole C in NOLA on 9/27/03 at 17:36 (131299)

Suzanne, you are the kindest, most patient, and least selfish person I have ever known (even though I only know you through the boards).

People who have been here a long time and have tried to contribute to helping others here, know that. Sometimes grownups, like children, just say unkind things. I've never known you to do that, though. What a contrast!

Carole C

Re: Problem???

Suzanne D on 9/27/03 at 17:38 (131301)

Yes, Carole, there are other conservatives here (me for one) that do not like many of the attitudes shown by others who proudly proclaim that they are conservatives.

Suzanne

Re: Problem???

Dr. Z on 9/27/03 at 17:55 (131308)

What if you and I were censored . Humm

Re: Edict: social board no longer for political discourse

Sharon W on 9/27/03 at 18:44 (131319)

D.

I think that sounds like an excellent idea! I knew you were a peacemaker by nature...

I hope you will post the info here, so that those of us who do enjoy engaging in political discussion sometimes can continue to participate -- and your idea about putting up a PF questionnaire is EXCELLENT!! I would be very interested to find out what info you collect...

Sharon
:)

Re: Edict: social board no longer for political discourse

marie on 9/27/03 at 18:47 (131321)

Nice alternative D.

Thanks for the input.

marie

Re: Edict: social board no longer for political discourse

Kathy G on 9/27/03 at 19:05 (131326)

D,

I would be most interested in answering any kind of questionaire you design. And I don't know why this is such a problem here as I don't believe there's a single person here who hasn't discussed and thought about politics more since 9/11 than ever before. And believe me, living in NH during primary season, I am inundated with politics on a daily basis! I'm just glad this Board is going to be less political and more social!

Re: Edict: social board no longer for political discourse

D.Thomas on 9/27/03 at 22:10 (131358)

Dr. Ed,

I agree with you 100% about how the design of most studies are built around the products to be tested, instead of really understanding the problem or disease. I am extremely busy the next couple of weeks but I will definitely take you up on this offer. I know you can and will add greatly to the design of the study. It won't be perfect (nothing in survey research is near perfect), but it will be far better than what we have today.

I actually want to develop a probability model that you can type in the various symptoms of PF that you have (having pain in the heel or arch, TTS, fibro, length of time that you have had the problem, etc.) and the model will rank order the treatments that have had the highest probability or odds of success given your situations or symptoms. I can also estimate the probability or odds of overall success. I will also test and identify which PF symptoms are important to distinguish the different segments of PF and successful treatments, given the data. Of course I will state the limitations of the model and sample so people will only use it as helpful guidelines.

I have been using some models that really identify heterogeneity very well and I believe the symptoms of PF are a classic case. All the studies I have read and seen basically ignore the heterogeneity of the different symptoms of PF and treat everyone the same because all they do is randomize people in the groups for control (placebo vs. control groups) to test their product or treatment as a whole. They usually also limit the design by some other factors but if I was to explain each one I would be here all night.

The one issue I need to work out is that the data will be censored, in that, some people are not cured or healed at the time they take the survey. I have a couple of different models that I can use with this type of data, but I need to figure out which one is best given the final design of survey.

Another big issue is how to supplement the sample with a good unbiased list of people who have PF? I'm not looking for a 'pure' random sample, but one that is better than just linking the survey on the Internet. I will also control the survey by IP address so people can't fill it out multiple times. I have also done quite a bit of survey research on the Internet and I can easily detect false cases (i.e., people just screwing around). They are not as clever as they think they stick out like sore thumbs.

With all this interest, I will put this as high as I can on my priority list.

Re: Edict: social board no longer for political discourse

BGCPed on 9/27/03 at 23:06 (131372)

Thats what I liked about Bubba. He could feel your pain AND a 20 y/o Intern. I hope when I am 50 something I can pull that off while my brilliant wife is sleeping a few door down the hall.

Re: Edict: social board no longer for political discourse

BGCPed on 9/27/03 at 23:17 (131375)

D.Thomas, hope your doing well. I think your idea has merit. If the survey is not too large I would be happy to distribute them to my patients that are ok with it. You could have an initial form then a follow mailed 6 months later. I am not sure what the average of return surveys viv mail in would be.

Another issue is would the cured or non cured be more apt to take the time to fill out the follow up and mail it or do it via the web? I see a large percentage of pf. I did 11 pair of orthotics last Friday and I average around 125 per month so I would have a good number of subjects in a relative short time.

Let me know if you have any questions

Re: Edict: social board no longer for political discourse

Ed Davis, DPM on 9/28/03 at 00:44 (131388)

Same here. BG and I may throw some different variables into the mix though. I am fairly busy to but look forward to the info.
Ed