success storiesPosted by Dan D. on 10/04/03 at 06:47 (132153)
I know that healed people generally don't continue to hang around message boards like this, but I would be interested in hearing some success stories with ESWT (like the one Patrick shared in the previous posting) with specific info as to where you had the ESWT done and what machined was used. I've had pf for six years and am seriously considering ESWT. Any info would be helpful.
Re: success storiesDr Z on 10/04/03 at 09:22 (132157)
This request has been made many times before. Try using the search engines
this may help. We use to have a sucess story section of the board but it was removed a few years ago. Our group has many many sucess stories and people that are willing to speak with you . Many of these patients are post two three plus years post eswt. Ask you doctor to allow you to talk to patients if that is your wish. Good luck
Re: success storiesEd Davis, DPM on 10/04/03 at 12:56 (132176)
Good point about success stories not hanging around. I had used a particular patient that I had referred to Sonorex in Vancouver in my example in the string below. The patient with a 9 year history and 4 surgical recommendations came back to my office last November just long enough to say 'thank you.' I asked her to write a testimonial on this board but did not here from her again until about 8 months later when she brought a family member in as a patient.
The string below started by Patrick and continued by Dr. Z and myself illustrates some of the 'controversies' in the application of ESWT technology. I feel that time will work out the controversies although more information from some of the companies involved would be helpful too as third parties and others are looking for papers that provide them 'proof now.' I think some in Europe may have taken a deep breath, sat back, relaxed and may be content to go with the experiential process.
I feel that the considerable experience with the technologies has proven the success of the technologies beyond question in my mind, but that is not enough for many, including third parties.
Re: success storiesDr Z on 10/04/03 at 13:15 (132178)
See my post above,
We have the European and Canadian experience in some of the literature already Insurance companies and the public need to know the rate of re-occurrence with either high or low energy. I just printed a low energy re-occurrence rate that was 30%
If it is determined that the typyical low energy treatment is 30% and repeat sessions years later are needed thats ok but if this information exists NOW then if should be offered.
Maybe this is why companies like Dornier went for an FDA approval for HIGH energy instead of low energy. Just guessing. From the beginning of my ESWT experience I was told by the European doctors that I was involved with that use high energy because low enery isn't effective.
Re: success storiesEd Davis, DPM on 10/04/03 at 13:28 (132180)
Do you have comparative stats on high energy ESWT? Even if there was a 30% recurrence rate and lets assume for just a moment that those individuals did not go back to doing what caused the PF in the first place (and that 'assumption' is where the problem is), then a redo of low energy is not a big deal, like going for 3 office visits or 3 PT visits. ESWT has been turned into an expensive and major event by the current state of affairs in US healthcare.
Re: success storiesDr Z on 10/04/03 at 14:32 (132184)
Europeans should have the low energy low term results already. The big deal with three office visit is the cost and time to the patient. What has caused the expensive ESWT treatment is a company called Healthronic and their insistance on the FDA class three route of approval. Our US Healthcare is being protective in most cases and I really don't blame them.
Should they pay for ESWT yes and no . In some areas they are paying for low energy ESWT at very high rates. Do they know that 0020T is being used for low energy eswt treatment? Some insurance companies don't really care so long as they don't have to pay and then there are some insurance companies they don't understand the 0020T is ESWT and that low isn't FDA approved and high energy is in the USA.
I still can't believe the tons of money that insurance companies are paying out for ossatron eswt high energy treatment in a ASC
Re: success storiesEd Davis, DPM on 10/04/03 at 15:19 (132192)
I sort of suspected that Healthtronics was behind the FDA class 3 route but was not sure. I take it that you have information that confirms that.
I was upset when they used the Buchbinder study to criticize Dornier. I told them that that would come back to hurt them. We use 0020T-58 to bill for low energy treatment and 0020T to bill for high.
Re: success storiesDr Z on 10/04/03 at 17:03 (132207)
I don't have the original transcription of how and why but it is the company that applies for which FDA classification . I have seen the orginal information from the Big O and how they applied. The only reason that the big O developed problems with the FDA was because of healhronics ALREADY applying for a class three.device From my conservation with the Big O engineers and doctors, and involved with FDA testimonies about ESWT use we really are using shockwaves with our ESWT devices or are we really using lithotriptors when delivering ESWT. We are using devices that deliver pressure waves. Lithotriptors are class three. Our machines aren't class three and aren't lithotriptors that were orginally used for ESWL. So when healthronics applied they applied for class three because they felt that their device was a lithotriptor whether is is correct or not it is sure a great way to go if you are a few years in your want to control the process of entering the ESWT market.
Re: success storiesEd Davis, DPM on 10/04/03 at 18:05 (132210)
Actually lithotriptors are only class 2, as far as I know. Class 3 includes devices such as pacemakers, necessary for the sustanance of human life. That is why placing what is basically a mini-lithotriptor which is not used over a vital organ in class 3 so outrageous.
Re: success storiesDr Z on 10/04/03 at 19:45 (132222)
I know. ESWL started out as Clas three then was downgraded to class two.
It is outrageous. There is more to the story that I don't want to get into on this board.