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Dorothy and Kansas and Toto, too

Posted by Dorothy on 10/07/03 at 17:38 (132654)

Wendy & Judy & Nancy ~ I understand that you are among the group of people that the other people on this board love and appreciate, but your 'online personality' is, in my opinion, controlling and high-handed. You are, obviously, correct in enforcing the rules that Scott has set forth, but your comments go beyond such things. You make blanket and judgmental and self-important statements, as in '...to talk about the important things - like their pain, and their feet...' as if you have definitive knowledge about what is important and as if there are not people here - who ALSO have pain and hurting feet and many demands in life - who actually derive social enjoyment from political discussion AND other discussions. Do you not, for example, think for a minute that the blues is also not about politics? It occurs to me that if you and others who agree with you were in charge of music in the world, there would not be any blues music or protest music or chanting or Phillip Glass music or whatever else if YOU did not like it. You know, while sometimes it is helpful and cathartic to talk about pain and hurt, it is not ALWAYS and ONLY helpful and therapeutic and instructive to talk about pain and hurt. Sometimes it is the best thing in the world to look up from our feet and get mad about or think about something else – and not everybody finds the same things equally interesting. I am one who is not really interested in what people collect, and it arouses certain ideas in me, but I don't seek to have it eliminated because I don't like it. I can enjoy a baseball game (Cardinals) but I don't particularly care if you are obsessed with the Boston Red Sox, Nancy; but I would never suggest that baseball discussions should be stopped – even though sports discussions can border on tedium that drives me up the wall. (I used to live in Sudbury, by the way and I also used to live in a Chicago suburb) I can simply read or not read about sports as the moment suits me.The whole rest of the board can devote every word to pain and feet; the social/support could have been freer than that, but that won't be. You said, '..for the same people to find other things to do with their lives (and I have better things to do with my life than to delete.... ') etc. You like to make these condescending kinds of statements without knowing a thing about most people here. You have no idea what I or most other people do with their lives, how busy they are, what they are engaged with or anything else, yet you make these puffed-up little statements. You don't know me or what my time is like or what I do in life or on any given day or in the wee hours or anything about me; you even said recently, 'I don't know who you are' and said you hadn't read anything I had written, over many months – when I complained about one of your (and Julie's and some others?) lectures, by which I meant telling us what we should talk about, be concerned about, how your time and interest for the board is limited, how you left the board and so on. Yet I could tell you lots about the people who write here, including your posts which I have not often found very engaging, and what they have written and some sense of their (board expressed) personalities... because I have been interested in them, not in me. I have only occasionally talked about myself and my personal life or demands on me except for matters pertaining to the feet and efforts to make them better by way of sharing information with others and absorbing information from others. I have shared a little but not a lot of a personal nature. I prefer to talk about ideas and issues and I have expressed opinions. But, for the record, I have a full life with family, friends and work and interests, talents, skills and productivity; I'm just interested in many, many matters in life and have a lot of intellectual energy. I think it is an oft-repeated statement of the self-important: I am too busy for this or that. We all have 24 hours a day, no more.It would be impossible for you to be busier than I am, but so what? Who cares? It is in the same vein as that other ridiculous statement that people like to make: 'get a life'. I hate pomposity and those statements are pompous, self-important, self-satisfied small-minded statements.Those kinds of statements are merely meant to draw attention to oneself in an effort to seem important. I know it is hard to imagine but I deal with pain AND other ideas and experiences and demands, all at once! Your 'I Know Best for Everyone' club likes to refer to the 'majority' or 'most people here' (who took that survey, I wonder?) and seem to find it impossible to realize that anyone - with hurting feet or any other hurting body part - could experience political talk, even of the gritty variety, as 'social' or interesting or stimulating or fun or diversionary from pain or having any other positive value. If it doesn't have positive value for YOU and your 'majority', then it doesn't have positive value. I can't even conceive of living in such a self-centered world. You couldn't ignore it; you had to have it eliminated and when I made a mistake – a MISTAKE! You all start sending private e-mails and yelling 'Scott! Scott! Stop her!' I think you have a very narrow view of what is interesting or helpful but you and some others apparently feel comfortable imposing your will on others. I have not noticed you deleting posts that seem to be obscene or cruel - but political? Too upsetting. Since Scott and others agree with you, that is the way it is. I do think that Scott's note 'clarifying my position' was clear and sensible. He has defined the social/support board in that way and I understand the scope of it now. I realize that I am not welcome here. I don't think it is healthy to say 'here is what we can talk about: pain or pets or flowers or pain or a few other things that I might think are ok, but no no no, you can't talk about that....why? because I say so. It upsets me. I want to talk about pain or something else and I will let you know what it is...' Obviously, an exaggeration, but with truth, too. What is next – running thoughts or ideas by the select 'Moderators' to see if they pass muster? So, I realize that I must leave because you and those who agree with you have spoken and because I will abide by the rules and because I realize I am not welcome. I feel like I am sort of forced into defending these political discussions, even though I could have been happy without them, but they are where the conversations went naturally and organically and so it was interesting to engage. If other conversations are spontaneous and interesting and engaging, then people jump into those, too. I don't want to defend any particular topics – I want to defend adults' abilities to make choices! I think that is similar to what John has said for a long time. If you don't like a given topic, don't take part. If others don't like it, it will fall by the wayside. All of this is moot now, since Scott's ban is permanent.

Now, I have apologized for violating the rules but I honestly did not understand that the ban was permanent. I thought it was a cooling-off period ban only. I realize that I misunderstood. I am leaving the boards permanently, not because I am angry or upset about the rules or the parameters Scott has established, but because I do not think that anyone else whose outlook IS appreciated here should feel they have to leave because of political statements that I made, nor should they have to be all up in arms about this matter. I think it is pretty absurd, actually. I think the business about 'e-mail me...send me an e-mail...' that Wendy, Judy, Nancy, Julie like to do is so silly; it sounds like little girls in grade school, pointing and whispering behind their hands. Be a moderator, post a note that says 'Dorothy, stop the political talk; it is banned or I will delete' and I would have realized I had made a mistake. It was simply a mistake and a misunderstanding on my part. Not a 'spitting in Scott's face' - good grief, people! - not a wild and wanton disregard for all that is decent and wonderful. A misunderstanding. But if you are really as angry and upset with me as you sound, you can turn me in to Ashcroft for my outspoken ways! You want a list of my library books, too? I bet you can find things there that you wouldn't like either. I desperately want my feet and physical state to be better, but not at the expense of my spirit and my brain. Frankly, I think this disdain for political talk might be un-American. Politics is at the heart and soul of American discourse and it is not unusual for it to be heated, nasty and strongly opinionated. It can even occur amongst people who have physical pain, sadness or other maladies in life. It can even help them get outside of themselves and their problems…. try that sometime, getting outside of yourselves. Political discussions are very much like many sports discussions get – heated, nasty, strongly opinionated. If people simply adhered to the 'Be Nice' rule, that would have sufficed. And I do agree that the long pastes can be a problem and should have had just the link/URL, rather than entire text – but that could have been easily handled.

As for 'other topics' on the social/support board, there have been a wide variety of 'other topics' and still are. On the same days that there were political posts, there were many other posts and discussions going on. So the 'domination' argument holds no water. The name of the board is not social-support; it is social/support – that ‘slash' mark means and/or. For people to define what is and is not social/support for others seems to be controlling beyond having basic rules. If Marie wants to start a photography club and people want to participate in that, that's fine. I don't have an interest in that and I don't need instruction in it; I have been and still am a photographer in life, among many other things. Now people are even starting to set up 'rules' for that idea! 'Pets and animals, that is not controversial', someone wrote. But I don't need to control that direction of the board. Interest will determine the energy of any discussion. I don't want to be 'organized and assigned and herded' here or anywhere else. I get a little prickly when people start telling me what is best for me and others and what to say and not say and who is to be liked and who is not and what is controversial and what is not. Maybe Max is on to some truth because I keep wanting to yell: What are you afraid of?? Why are you afraid of OTHER people having a conversation about what interests THEM??

I will miss the boards. I found comfort here and a kind of sweetness of humanity and I'm sure I will go through a bit of a withdrawal from visiting here and think there are some dear personalities here. Now I say, 'Well, I think I will go see what the Foot People have been up to…' but I will have to stop saying that. How you will keep the topics on whatever you define as acceptable and safe topics during the coming election season is beyond me, but maybe that is the point. I think it is sad to have a group of 'friends' that you are forbidden to talk about the great issues of the day with.

I meant no affront to Scott or his policies for the board. I misunderstood the ban. All of those references to respect and spitting in his face are just utter nonsense. However, if Scott himself thinks that was my intention in any way, I want to reiterate that does not describe my intentions at all. I made a mistake. I have made mistakes in life before and I might make mistakes again. I won't make this same one again. I will probably concentrate on finding new mistakes to make. It's not hard for me to do.

To Lari: I was a cheerleader and an actress and a homecoming queen and school officer and I used to do flips and cartwheels and somersaults with my kids. Your posts make me feel sad that I can't do those things anymore. I don't think those subjects should be banned. You will do well on this board. You use ‘emoticons'. You have taken a stand against political discussions. You mirror the views of the club. You obviously have excellent instincts. I would like to have heard more about why and when you 'stopped wearing shoes'...

To Nancy: Go crazy, folks! (That is a baseball reference; don't get all bent out of shape.. it was The Great Jack Buck) It is now the Baseball Board – until you tell folks it is ok to talk about something else. You will be sure to let everyone know what it is ok to talk about, won't you? Otherwise, they might get all out of hand and think they can talk about whatever they have on their minds. You can relax now and stop shaking your finger at me and scolding everybody and anybody. You can particularly stop scolding John. John is a free person. By the way, so are you. And by the way, me too!

To Marie: No, I'm wrong ..it is now the Photography Board or more specifically the Pet Photography Board (rules and dictated subject matter). To those who don't have a camera or a pet, too bad. They can look at YOUR photos. Here's a news item for you: My husband and I used to have a photography business, too. It was successful, but I got tired of every weekend being devoted to other people's weddings! We have ALWAYS done photography; I had an old Brownie when I was a kid that was passed down from my brothers and sisters. My husband and I graduated from the simplest darkrooms to great darkrooms, but it's all in storage now. We just take pictures for fun or for recording something. He's the great photographer, but I have good instincts and 'the great eye' he says. He's biased. Marie, I love your and your husband's photos and I love your anecdotes and I enjoy your spirit here and I do understand that you simply want to 'preserve' the social/support board. Well, you are presuming that I had other intentions, but I didn't. I had a mistaken understanding about the ban. I will remove myself because of the subsequent cries of outrage, not because I think that I HAVE TO remove myself. I know I could stay and join in the other conversations and I HAVE joined in the other discussions, as well as the political ones. One difference between us is that I don't like 'assigned topics' and 'ok, now here is the theme..' Those restrictions have a place in school, but not here among adults on a social/support board. I suggested topics when the social/support board reopened (books, movies, Drudge/journalism, critiquing the PBS Blues series) but there was only minimal interest. That's fine. That's how human interaction goes. Dr. Ed wrote about the value of spontaneity in the discussions and I share that view. This is not school. We are not children. And no, Nancy, even when we had heated discussions about politics, we were still not children. We were adults with some varied interests talking about something YOU apparently didn't like. I think there ARE some mischievous posters who are probably 'children', but I am not one of them.

For John H.:
I know, I know…we didn't agree on everything and I know, I know…I did on occasion irritate you (not my aim, honest!) – but I have to tell you that your post about this recent fiasco that my post apparently precipitated was absolutely marvelous. I know you weren't defending 'Dorothy' per se, but you were defending greater freedom of thought and speech here, but all the same, I appreciated it greatly. I think you are terrific. I know, I know..I only 'know' you here through these words on these boards – but that says a lot, doesn't it? We have all come to know each other at least a little bit here, and some of you know each other more. If you were nearby, you would probably be horrified to see me come at you to give you a big ole hug today. I mean this most sincerely: I am so glad that you were able to climb that mountain and be ok afterwards. I am so glad that you are feeling better and able to be more active. That makes me happy! We all know all too well how these things come and go, but I truly hope that you continue to have improvement and stability. I know we both love our country deeply and I know we both yearn for health and physical fitness and I know we both have a 'talk and let talk' attitude here (except for my exception to Peter's post about the stoning and Julius about the klan….ok, you win! You are more tolerant than I am. :-) ) Whenever I saw your name on a post's heading, I read it because your messages were a good place to be somehow; they felt comfortable, even when I might not 'agree'. You seem like such a decent, fair person – and fun, too, and not afraid.

For Sharon W.: As I have said, I have much respect for all that you do here and your posts are smart and useful and informative. You have a wonderful way of telling about your experiences and sharing in that way that is illustrative and helpful but that doesn't serve primarily to draw attention to yourself. That is a gift and your posts are a gift to all who read them. I think you contribute so much to the beautiful aspect of these boards: self-empowerment and self-teaching and personal responsibility. I value your contributions a great deal. Your posts often feel like being in the care of a 'good shepherd' somehow and it's nice. I hope that my saying that would never make you feel that you 'shouldn't' erupt in whatever way you want to. Sometimes, comments can make a person self-conscious and like they have to conform to someone else's perception of them. I don't want to do that. I kind of feel that way about Suzanne, too, as if we all kind of force her into a ' sainted one' role when maybe she would like to scream every now and then. She does seem to have a very tender heart and I hope that everyone could be her 'support' when she doesn't feel like being 'saintly.' Rather than making this social/support board into one person's version of a 'safe' place, I would like to see it be a safe place to be oneself, even at one's most desperate or angry or scared or politically exercised. But that's my idea, not others. And I would continue to exclude posts like Peter's about the stoning - so I have limits. That one didn't get deleted.

I see your e-mail address – thank you – but I will give myself a little space and time… I know you are not defending the political discussions per se, nor me per se, but you have a calm, focused way about you that is terrific. I know you want the best for the boards and the people here – and I want that for YOU, too.

There are other people I would like to say something to, but I have wind-bagged again –as I ALWAYS do. (Self-editing and condensing are not my strengths in case you didn't know that already!) Just one last thing: did anybody watch the play 'Our Town' on PBS this week? This latest version of that great play had Paul Newman in it. I had seen the promotionals for it and vowed NOT to watch it because I know that play so well –as do most Americans – and have acted in it and performed various parts of it over the years, as have so many Americans! – but it always makes me cry and feel so sad in such a way that is hard to shake. I love the play but know where it will invariably lead me. Yet I watched it, as I have so many times in the past. It is wrenching, but rich. I would never, ever suggest to PBS that they not air it because it is difficult for ME. I can turn it off or leave it on. You can watch it, even if I don't. I can watch it, even if you don't. I don't tell PBS: Only air plays that my friends and I say you can run. If you run the play that Dortmouse likes, I will withhold my pledge.
So, I sat and watched 'Our Town' and bawled and bawled as I always do and I kept going to my husband to give and get hugs and comfort. And, as it always does, it has left me with a little bit of heartache that will fade in a little bit of time –

So, I'm a little sad and a little mad. Sad about leaving here and about life a la 'Our Town' and mad that a little clique here can throw a tantrum and get their way. That happened back before this latest upset and Scott made the decision back then to disallow all political discussion on the social/support. I thought the ban was temporary for a cooling-off period but would allow political discussion again; I was wrong. It is a permanent ban. I am not so attached to only political discussions that I feel I have to leave if they are banned. I am leaving because of the clique-tantrum, the little private 'e-mail me…' stuff, and the controlling, rigid finger-waggings. It is of some interest to me how those people manage to exert that kind of control on the totality of their lives so that they never hear or see anything they don't like – or that they think EVERYTHING pertains to them and their needs and wants and requirements.

OK, the coast is clear. You can come back, Judy. No one is 'poisoning' your board. Dorothy is not in your Kansas anymore. Neither is the Good Witch or the Bad Witch; she melted. But you may find Toto, too amongst the pet pictures and he is very, very cute.

Re: Dorothy and Kansas and Toto, too

marie on 10/07/03 at 18:02 (132657)

Mistakes are made all the time Dorothy. I for one understood that you had made a mistake and didn't think ill of you at all. As far as the photography club it's just something to do....Like you we all need a distraction from our feet. This is just one. I wish you would have participated because your ideas are always of value to me. You're correct this isn't a classroom.....it's just a message board. That doesn't mean folks can't share. It's just an idea...no big deal to me whether anyone participates or not.

Sorry to see you go. Hope you stay happy and well.

marie

Re: Dorothy and Kansas and Toto, too

nancy s. on 10/07/03 at 18:07 (132658)

wow. you know very little about me, too, dorothy. (for example, in the big picture, baseball actually is a very very tiny part of my life. it might not even show up.) but that doesn't matter.

you sound a little how i felt last february and march when, after over three years, i felt driven off of here by people (mostly neo-conservatives) who disagreed with my political views. maybe you should go back and have a look. people with 'minority' political views here WERE spat upon and disdained, for weeks that grew into months. if you had been the recipient, you probably would have gotten more than tired of it yourself. you have pointed the 'control' finger at the wrong people, my friend, although no doubt everyone here makes mistakes and is not perfect, certainly myself included.

but what's happening now isn't about you, dorothy, believe it or not. it isn't about you At All. it has a history. you may not like it -- i certainly don't like it -- but that's life. hey, i feel robbed of political discussion here too! but not by scott.

before you throw any more boiling water on people like wendy and judy and julie, do a little reading in previous years and you'll see how very much they contributed here, tried to help each and every new individual who appeared, and did so almost every single day, for years. to call people who have done that before you've even had much of a chance to do that yourself 'selfish' is really jumping the gun. i'm sorry you did it.

nancy
.

Re: Dorothy and Kansas and Toto, too

Sharon W on 10/07/03 at 18:24 (132661)

Dorothy,

You are precisely who I was trying to defend, per se.

I did not want to get involved and I WOULDN'T have posted on the Social board for a lesser reason than to point out that you are a newcomer who, as you said yourself, simply made a mistake and -- brilliant and articulate though you obviously are -- you really didn't understand how the 'politics' of Heelpsurs works.

Although I will not be posting here anymore myself, I am sad to see you make this decision. But can see your mind is made up and I wish you all the best, Dorothy, in whatever you choose to do.

I hope that you will consider visiting us, someday, on the new politics & controversial topics board (or whatever Marie decides to call it), if that plan works out.

Sharon
:)

Re: I'm working on it.......

marie on 10/07/03 at 18:31 (132665)

I have the main page, content, search and post created. I am calling it a Political Round Table. I was hoping some of these folks would stick around and give me some input....but everybody is all mad. I could really use some help here. I hope Dorothy will consider joining because even if she is mean to me I still like her and value her political and intelectual input. The only problem is I may be the only liberal at the table. :D

Now Sharon don't you leave me too.

marie

Re: I'm working on it.......

Sharon W on 10/07/03 at 18:39 (132668)

Marie,

I'm not going anywhere, just staying on the OTHER boards unless someone addresses a post to me specifically by name.

(And considering the others involved in your round table I may be considered a 'liberal' too...)

Sharon
:)

Re: I'm working on it.......

Dorothy on 10/07/03 at 18:45 (132669)

Was I mean to you? Maybe I don't recognize when someone thinks I am being mean. Since I don't mean to be mean, please do me a favor and tell me how I was mean to you - and I will not do it again. I do not want to be mean to you - so a little education HERE would be most welcome, if you care to do so - although I would understand if you do not care to.

Re: Dorothy and Kansas and Toto, too

John H on 10/07/03 at 18:52 (132670)

Dorothy: I usually do not read long post. I did read every word of yours Time has a way of leveling the playing field. At the moment it is very tilted. Some post say if you want to discuss politics go to another board for that. I am here because I like the people here including the ones who disagree with me. I have been interested in their opinions, life, pain and what they are doing. I find no joy in just finding some board where i have no social ties with. I am still bewildered why anyone cannot just avoid a reader or a post they do not like or agree with. No one is forced to read anything. So why do people read post that upset them? I really do not have a clue. You learn early in life that if you touch a hot stove it burns and you no longer touch a hot stove. That is so simple and is what I do. If I do not like channel 5 I just swich channels I do not request channel 5 be taken off the air. Life is making choices. Everyday you make choices on what to eat, where to go, what to do. You avoid those things you do not like. You cannot just eliminate them. Are you familiar with the pharase being 'Borked'?

Re: I'm working on it.......

marie on 10/07/03 at 18:53 (132671)

That's ok, I just thought you were a little over critical. Perhaps what you wrote wasn't exactly how you felt. It's always so hard to tell any more.....hey I'm just watching the traffic today.

Later Dorothy...and I do hope you hang around long enough for me to get a board up. I have a skeleton in place. Now I just have to create the guts...in the end I'll add a little skin.LOL.

marie

Re: I'm working on it.......

nancy s. on 10/07/03 at 18:57 (132673)

marie, you won't be alone, count on it. although life is complicated, i plan to drop in. in all honesty, i consider giving support (in various forms) at h.s. number one in priority, but politics is so close to values that it is never far at all from my mind or life.

nancy
.

Re: Dorothy and Kansas and Toto, too

marie on 10/07/03 at 18:58 (132674)

John,

if I get a board up that Scott will link too...will you participate? I really do agree with you but maybe we can continue to post and yak about politics there. It'll be for all the heelspurs gang who wishes to partake. I am going to try to figure out how to register with a password so we can keep it local...if ya know what I mean.

marie

Re: I'm working on it.......

John H on 10/07/03 at 19:06 (132679)

Hello Sharon: This addressed specifically to you. Have a fun and happy day.

Re: I'm working on it.......

Sharon W on 10/07/03 at 19:10 (132680)

John,

:D

Sharon
.

Re: Oops

Sharon W on 10/07/03 at 19:10 (132681)

:D

Re: That's better!

Sharon W on 10/07/03 at 19:16 (132682)

;)

Re: To Dorothy Dorothy and Kansas and Toto, too

Pauline on 10/07/03 at 19:17 (132683)

Dorothy,
I know it will be of little consolation for you, but take heart in knowing this play has been seen many times before. Same play, just different words and characters complete with jesters cheering safely behind the curtain.

Even the lines are the same. The ones about 'leaving' and 'those that know who they are'.

After a time, one can't help wondering why people feel it necessary to announcement that they are going to leave the board. I often wondered why they can't just slip away quietly and unnoticed, but upon watching the same pattern for many years one quickly realizes it serves a purpose for them.

Many folks would like to think of this site as one big loving family, but in reality it's not, nor will it ever be the 'Nelson household'. It's divisions are as large as the earth's plates and they are in constant motion shifting for power.

Study the patterns and I guarantee that you will gain a better insight and understanding about this board. You'll also feel a lot better too.

Keep in mind all the words posted here eventually slip off the page and are only as important as one want's to make them.

Re: To Dorothy Dorothy and Kansas and Toto, too

nancy s. on 10/07/03 at 20:06 (132700)

pauline, i imagine many people end up repeating some scenarios if they stay here (or anywhere) long enough. i've noticed that with you, too, on the ESWT board. :)

your last line certainly has the ring of truth:

'Keep in mind all the words posted here eventually slip off the page and are only as important as one want's to make them.'

nancy
.

Re: I'm working on it.......

Dorothy on 10/07/03 at 20:35 (132713)

Thanks, Marie, for saying so. I CAN be highly critical in my 'style' and it is something I want to be aware of and reduce - unless I really do want to be critical - and with regard to you, I didn't want to be. It's big of you to tell me and to brush it off. I hope you forget about it.

Re: for Dorothy...

Suzanne D. on 10/07/03 at 20:45 (132716)

Hello, Dorothy! I just jumped in here, responding to this post because it is your latest, hoping that you will see mine.

I feel so sad about all the leaving and anger. And I am truly sad to read that you are leaving. I enjoyed our 'Kentucky Connection', and it seems like sometimes you know me very well indeed.

I wish you the best always and hope this is not our last time to communicate.

Suzanne :)

Re: To Dorothy Dorothy and Kansas and Toto, too

Dorothy on 10/07/03 at 21:14 (132722)

Your comments are interesting and seem insightful.

As to your comments: 'After a time, one can't help wondering why people feel it necessary to announcement that they are going to leave the board. I often wondered why they can't just slip away quietly and unnoticed, but upon watching the same pattern for many years one quickly realizes it serves a purpose for them' - I can only speak for myself, obviously, but I think it is because there is a feeling of a certain kind of relationship that develops, a virtual relationship to be sure, but that is one kind of relationship - people throughout history have developed close relationships through correspondence only. So this feeling of relationship exists and then when a poster feels that they are not welcome and plan to remove themselves, they say so - by way of saying goodbye, by way of indirectly saying 'you mean something to me', by way of saying 'is what you seem to be saying about me what you actually think of me' and various permutations of that theme. The reasons are probably similar to any break-up's parting words and have as many variations in motivation for making such an announcement. People want to be noticed and want to be liked, even people who want to be left alone. It's about that simple, I would say, for every person, everywhere - but the expression of those wishes take many forms and the reactions to feeling those needs being thwarted take many forms.
I actually wonder what happened to someone who hasn't written in a long time. Are they OK? Are they 'out there' reading? Are they angry? Are they sick? So, some kind of explanation helps.

Still, I read your words and they make sense.

Re: To Dorothy Dorothy and Kansas and Toto, too

Pauline on 10/07/03 at 21:46 (132727)

Dorothy,
For some I would agree with you, it's a real parting, a goodbye, but for others its a way to gather sympathy, build ego, develop self-esteem and gain power especially when you threaten it multiple times.

If life is that bad on this board all one need really do is walk away quietly. No fanfare is needed unless done for a purpose.

As you say, others will notice your absence.

Re: Dorothy and Kansas and Toto, too

Dorothy on 10/07/03 at 22:02 (132730)

I took your advice and went to the archived guestbook and read for a while this evening. I just scanned messages but got the gist of the site then. I was reading in late 1997 and 1998; don't know how long the site has existed. Anyway, it was a cursory overview and I didn't find the kinds of posts you were referring to (the spat upon type) but I did find so many messages of pain, comfort, suggestions, reports back, and expressions of gratitude for the site and the like. I didn't see any names that were familiar now, other than Scott's. It did give me a different perspective on things. I'm not really sure where and what I think the discussions should consist of on the S/S board. I don't think they should be ABOUT politics, but I don't think that topics should be prescribed or prohibited because they will live or die of the interest they generate. I take your words of commendation and affirmation for Wendy, Judy and Julie as true, but that has not been my experience and I was only writing about my experience. I acknowledged that they are much appreciated by others. I didn't call anyone 'selfish' to my recollection; I did use the word 'self-centered.' Maybe I need to think all this through better, rather than flying off the handle. And maybe I should just keep reading from the past and be quiet for a while. I always tend to get 'venter's remorse' after venting and need to consider the effects of that. So, I will just be quiet for a while and hope that patching and mending will continue. It is a lovely quality of Marie's - that she tries to find ways to mend things. I hate to think that I may be one who breaks things and so will just re-think all this for a while. John H. said the s/s board is a place where one can learn about oneself, too.

Re: To Dorothy Dorothy and Kansas and Toto, too

marie on 10/08/03 at 15:39 (132879)

That's so true...thanks Pauline.

nancy...thank you too! I'm very glad your back.