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Just had first round of Sonocur ESWT - great results so far

Posted by Dan D. on 2/01/04 at 19:11 (143434)

I have had severe,chronic pf in both feet for 6 and a half years. For all but about a year of this time, I have had to use crutches to get around. This past Thursday I had the first of three rounds of ESWT using the Sonocur machine. They treated the area in both feet that has been giving me problems these past six and a half years and the results so far is nothing less than miraculous. The area they treated (the classic spot for pf)is pain free. I'm amazed. The only problem now is that over the past few months, I have had a new area of pain develop in both feet at the very rear of my heels (about as far back as you can go on the heels). I have two more rounds to go of the Sonocur in the original places of pain, so I'm going to see if the doc will treat those newer areas of pain as well. Needless, to say, I am greatly encouraged. I'll try to check in from time to time here to give updates on my progress.

Dan

Re: Just had first round of Sonocur ESWT - great results so far

Mark L on 2/01/04 at 19:20 (143435)

Every study shows that the low energy therapy is non- effective. You are probably simply having a short term anesthetic effect of the treatment. Get yourself to a site that uses an FDA approved high energy method.

Re: Just had first round of Sonocur ESWT - great results so far

Dr. Z on 2/01/04 at 19:27 (143437)

This is what I am talking about . You have no authority or right to make
such a ridiculous statement . EVERY STUDY shows that low energy eswt is non effective. So that means that that all low energy never works. No way.
I do believe that if you do chose ESWT treatment the dornier is the better machine but not for the reasons that you have just stated.
On another note I will point out to Dan that no eswt machine whether low energy and or high energy should be used for NON insertional plantar fascia pain.

Re: To Mark Just had first round of Sonocur ESWT - great results so far

Karen on 2/01/04 at 21:08 (143445)

Mark,
Are you saying Dr. Rompe's lying in his findings???

Shock wave application for chronic plantar fasciitis in running athletes View Thread
Posted by Jan Rompe on 3/19/03 at 06:32

Dear colleagues:

Our latest study has just been published in:

Am J Sports Med 2003 Mar-Apr;31(2):268-75

Shock wave application for chronic plantar fasciitis in running athletes: a prospective, randomized, placebo-controlled trial.

Rompe JD, Decking J, Schoellner C, Nafe B.

Department of Orthopaedics, Johannes Gutenberg University School of Medicine, Mainz, Germany.

BACKGROUND: Recent articles have reported success with repeated low-energy shock wave application for treatment of chronic plantar fasciitis in runners. HYPOTHESIS: Shock wave treatment for chronic plantar fasciitis is safe and effective. STUDY DESIGN: Prospective, randomized, placebo-controlled trial. METHODS: Forty-five running athletes with intractable plantar heel pain for more than 12 months were enrolled; half were assigned to a treatment group that received three applications of 2100 impulses of low-energy shock waves, and half received sham treatment. Follow-up examinations were performed at 6 months and at 1 year by a blinded observer. RESULTS: After 6 months, self-assessment of pain on first walking in the morning was significantly reduced from an average of 6.9 to 2.1 points on a visual analog scale in the treatment group and from an average of 7.0 to 4.7 points in the sham group. The mean difference between groups was 2.6 points. After 12 months, there was a further reduction of pain in both groups, to an average 1.5 points in the treatment group, and to 4.4 points in the sham group. CONCLUSION: Three treatments with 2100 impulses of low-energy shock waves were a safe and effective method for treatment of chronic plantar fasciitis in long-distance runners.

Any PROFESSIONAL comments are welcome to:

Jan D. Rompe
Professor
Dept. of Orthopaedic Surgery
Johannes gutenberg University
School of Medicine
Langenbeckstr. 1
D-55131 Mainz
Germany

e-mail: (email removed)

Re: Just had first round of Sonocur ESWT - great results so far

Dan D. on 2/01/04 at 21:37 (143447)

Dr. Z,

What do you mean by non-insertional plantar fascia pain?

Dan

Re: Just had first round of Sonocur ESWT - great results so far

Dr. Z on 2/01/04 at 22:02 (143448)

In the arch, ball of the foot and what appears to be from your description the other areas of pain in your heel that you describe

Re: To Mark Just had first round of Sonocur ESWT - great results so far

Mark L on 2/02/04 at 06:50 (143454)

This may be the only study using low energy that shows any effectivness. What is not here is how much energy was used-it may have been at the border line for high energy and that's why the positive results.

Re: To Mark Just had first round of Sonocur ESWT - great results so far

Karen on 2/02/04 at 07:48 (143456)

Since it's a published study and he only posted the abstract on this website along with his e-mail address could you can check with him for us.

He does use the term 'low power' in his conclusion. What exactly is low power in this study would seem to be important.

Re: Mark L

BrianG on 2/02/04 at 18:29 (143499)

To Mark L,

Above you posted 'Every study shows that the low energy therapy is non-effective'. You also posted a 'True Facts' below this one, that would somehow have us belive that the high energy ESWT machines are the only way to go.

What kind of world do you live in? What studies are you talking about? Have you ever sat down and done any research on the subject, or are you just posting about something a high energy manufacturer may have written on their home page?

Karen mentioned Dr. Rompe, who you just dismissed as if he didn't know what he was talking about. It is by far not the only study Dr. Rompe has done on low energy ESWT healing. He is a member of the International Society for Musculoskeletal Shockwave Therapy (ISMST), which is a group of mostly European doctors and professionals that have been studying low energy ESWT for twice the length of time, that the first ESWT machine has even been in the US. Take some time, and check out this web site, it should open your eyes.

http://www.ISMST.com/index.htm
http://www.ISMST.com/literature.htm

Just one question please, have you ever read anything about the ISMST?

Regards,
BrianG

Re: ^To: Brian G

Mark L on 2/06/04 at 08:00 (143739)

Just answer one ? - WY HAVEN'T THE MANUFACTURES OF THE LOW ENERGY EQUIPMENT SOUGHT FDA APPROVAL?? SIMPLE ANSWER TO ANYONE WHO IS NOT GETTING THEIR POCKETS FILLED WITH AN ESSENTIALLY NON-EFFECTIVE THERAPY- $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ THEY CAN BILL 3X FOR IT BUT MEDICARE IS GOING TO TAKE CARE OF THAT GROUP WHEN THEY APPROVE PAYMENT FOR ESWT ONLY WHEN FDA APPROVED EQUIPMENT IS USED. THEN THEY WILL GO TO WHERE THEY SHOULD BE -NEXT TO A MASSAGE TABLE IN A PT CENTER OR A CHIROPRACTORS OFFICE IF THEY CAN INDUCE ENOUGH SELF PAY PEOPLE TO USE IT. O'well the museums are full of all kinds of 'medical machines' that didn't work. Woody Allen featured some in one of his movies.

Re: Mark L

Scott D. on 2/06/04 at 09:28 (143749)

Brian,

You posted above.... 'He is a member of the International Society for Musculoskeletal Shockwave Therapy (ISMST), which is a group of mostly European doctors and professionals that have been studying low energy ESWT for twice the length of time, that the first ESWT machine has even been in the US. Take some time, and check out this web site, it should open your eyes.'

You should have a look at the member section of the ISMST website... http://www.ismst.com/members.htm
You will see that
#1)This is far from an exclusive group (I am a member).

#2)There are probably 10 times more members from the US than any other country in the rest of the world, and there may in fact be more US members than the entire rest of the world.

Re: Scott D

BrianG on 2/08/04 at 11:35 (143934)

Hi Scott,

Since you are a member, why don't you let Mark know that low power ESWT does work, and that Dr. Rompe has published many papers, besdes the one mentioned ?????

BrianG

Re: Scott D

Scott D. on 2/09/04 at 10:22 (143981)

Brian:

Why don't you just ask Dr. Rompe yourself? He posts frequently on this board!

Re: Scott, do you agree with Mark?

BrianG on 2/10/04 at 12:06 (144045)

Scott D, I've talked (e-mail) with Dr. Rompe, and I believe it, when he says that low powered ESWT will cure PF. It's Mark L. that is saying:

'Every study shows that the low energy therapy is non-effective'.

As a member of ISMST, would you agree, or disagree, with Mark L ????

Regards
BrianG

Re: A low energy device HAS been FDA approved

Scott R on 2/10/04 at 16:03 (144051)

Mark L, the FDA already has approved a low-energy ESWT device. If it works for tennis elbow, why not heel pain?

Re: A low energy device HAS been FDA approved

Dr. Z on 2/10/04 at 17:39 (144052)

Hi Scott

This is probaby the wrong place to tell you this but it just popped into my mind. A patient of mine today after I brought up where he worked starting to tell about natural pain relief products he manufactors
Anyway he is going to e-mail you and is willing to allow you to review and determine if it is something that may help heel pain suffering. I have some of the products to test out.
I told the gentleman that he must be willing to allow you to evaluatae the products. May be something similiar to J-Balm
I shown him the heelspurs.com product area that he could sell from with arrangement from you. I told that the product must meet your satisfaction

So you should hear from him

Re: Scott, do you agree with Mark?

Scott D. on 2/11/04 at 11:35 (144096)

Brian,

Being a member of the ISMST has nothing to do with my opinion.

I believe that high-energy treatment for PF is a better way to go. Having said that, I would never make a blanket statement that all low-energy treatment is bad! I am sure that if used correctly, low-energy ESWT can and will cure PF, just as high-energy ESWT used incorrectly will not. I think success is more a product of the people using the technology and using it on the right patients than it is a matter of what machine is utilized.