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Spelling Question for England

Posted by Dorothy on 2/26/04 at 15:12 (145447)

Is 'sceptic/sceptical' a British spelling?
Is this anything like 'shed-jewel' for schedule?

Re: Spelling Question for England

Julie on 2/26/04 at 16:36 (145457)

Yes, it's a British spelling. Like socialise, honour, and so on.

And a few people do still say 'shed-jewel', though many if not most say skedual.

;0
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Re: It depends on which towne one lives.

Ed Davis, DPM on 2/27/04 at 11:34 (145513)

Julie:
An 'elevator' is called a 'lift' in British English. I cannot remember the term for a 'windshield wiper.'
Ed

Re: It depends on which towne one lives.

carynz on 2/27/04 at 13:02 (145515)

being a welsh girl I'll add my 2c....a trunk is a boot, a car hood is a bonnet, a truck is a lorry, a flashlight is a torch, football is soccer, tired is knackered and 'bob's your uncle'......

have a great day

cheers Carynz

Re: and "ghoti" is an alternative spelling of "fish"

elliott on 2/27/04 at 14:35 (145523)

'gh' as in 'tough', 'o' as in 'women', and 'ti' as in 'nation'. :-) (This gem due to George Bernard Shaw.)

My wife is English. Fortunately, she stopped using the word 'cooker'. I still don't know what a cupboard is. When I ask where something is and she says, 'Just look in the cupboard,' I first groan, then check every drawer and cabinet in the kitchen, including that thingy under the oven, then that dining room hutch piece, then those cabinets under the bathroom sink...I still haven't found anything.

Re: and "ghoti" is an alternative spelling of "fish"

Julie on 2/27/04 at 14:42 (145526)

Elliott, I can't believe you don't know by now that a cupboard is a closet!

I expect you all know that 'sidewalk' is 'pavement'?

English is an odd and difficult language - so is American. 'ghoti' = 'fish' proves it.
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Re: Alta Vista Babel Fish

Ed Davis, DPM on 2/27/04 at 15:27 (145528)

If anyone has a chance, get onto Alta Vista and try their 'Babel Fish' service -- it is a free translation service. I have used in primarily for German due to so much of the ESWT literature emanating from there. Dr. Rompe has been very gracious in emailing me lots of literature but always finding English versions (I may repeat this post on the ESWT board since I beleive that is the only one he reads regularly). We often take for granted the efforts of others to accomodate us in our language.

I don't know if Babel Fish translates non-Romanic languages/characters, ie. Cyrllic, Arabic, Hebrew, Chinese, etc.
Ed

Re: and "ghoti" is an alternative spelling of "fish"

Ed Davis, DPM on 2/27/04 at 15:47 (145530)

Elliott:
I am trying to recall a name of a novel written by a physician turned novelist in which one travels back in time to old England and coversation is carried out in old English. I will do some searching if I get time tonight. It is fascinating to look at old English and see how the language has evolved throughout the years.

Presumably, Daniel Webster was alarmed by the different dialects of English spoken in colonial days and was thus motivated to write his famous dictionary as an attempt to create one unique American dialect of English.
Ed

Re: and "ghoti" is an alternative spelling of "fish"

Suzanne D. on 2/27/04 at 16:05 (145532)

'English is an odd and difficult language - so is American. 'ghoti' = 'fish' proves it.'
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And this is just what makes teaching reading to first graders so challenging! :-?

By the way, we talk about 'kitchen cupboards' here in reference to kitchen cabinets. I never thought of a cupboard being a closet!

I find language fascinating...
Suzanne :)

Re: and "ghoti" is an alternative spelling of "fish"

Kathy G on 2/28/04 at 09:22 (145573)

My father was raised by English immigrants. Well, his mother would tell you she was Irish but since her family moved to England when she was about three, she sure sounded like she was English.

My father held on to a few English expressions and my favorite was the way he referred to one's outfit as a 'costume.' And he said it, 'cost-yoom.' When we were kids, we thought it was hilarious. He bought me a full-length wall mirror when I was in high school. He told my mother that I would come out of my room wearing a perfectly lovely 'cost-yoom' and then ten minutes later, I would change! His hope was that if I had a nice mirror, I wouldn't waste so much time. That mirror still hangs in my bedroom. And everyone in my family tells each other we like their 'costyoom' if they look nice.

I didn't know that everyone didn't call a closet a cupboard so that must have been something I just accepted, being raised by him and my mother whose parents were Irish immigrants. He also called a deck a 'pahtio' and a porch, a 'pee-ah-zuh.' Actually, between the two of them, I heard a lot of English/Irish terms and it was so much fun! My mother's mother tried very hard to not use Irish terms and prided herself on her children sounding American. She didn't want them using terms that made it sound like they were from 'the Old Country.' Wouldn't she get a kick out of the way we all enjoy those terms now?

Re: Spelling Question for England

wendyn on 2/28/04 at 09:50 (145576)

And those of us in Canada are totally mixed up as always.

Some of our spelling is UK, but some is US.

We tend to socialize, not socialise.

We have a sense of humour, not humor.

I am a skeptic, not a sceptic.

Re: and "ghoti" is an alternative spelling of "fish"

wendyn on 2/28/04 at 09:52 (145577)

What?

Cupboards are all those things with doors on them in your kitchen where you find dishes and food.

A closet Julie?

I am so confused.

Re: and "ghoti" is an alternative spelling of "fish"

Julie on 2/28/04 at 10:07 (145578)

Wendy, a kitchen cupboard is where you keep your dishes. A clothes cupboard is where you keep your clothes. The latter was called a closet in my previous life as an American, but that came to an end 44 years ago, so perhaps it has changed, as things have a way of doing. Perhaps an American of more recent vintage can de-confuse us both.

How can you be a skeptic if you have humour?

And in Calgary do you walk on pavements or sidewalks?
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Re: and "ghoti" is an alternative spelling of "fish"

wendyn on 2/28/04 at 11:15 (145583)

Julie - I have kitchen cupboards - but I only have a closet in my bedroom.

I walk on the sidewalk.

My sidewalk is pavement.

This all reconfirms my belief that Canadians are totally mixed up. Not only are we confused between Metric and Imperial systems of measurement, our spellings and phrases are all messed up too.

Do you have garbage or trash?

Is it a can of pop or a can of soda?

A cady bar or chocolate bar?

Running shoes or sneakers?

Do you go to the bathroom or the washroom?

Re: and "ghoti" is an alternative spelling of "fish"

Suzanne D. on 2/28/04 at 11:36 (145590)

Hi, Wendy. We here in KY also say kitchen cupboards and bedroom closets. We walk on sidewalks which are pavement. I'd say all of us - from every place - are 'mixed up', with phrases that have come from different sources.

We have garbage and trash here - most usually trash is of the paper variety (like in my trash can at school), and garbage includes more, but the two terms are often used interchangeably.

Some people say 'a can of pop' and some people say a 'can of soda', but more likely you'll hear that someone wants a 'coke', no matter if it is actually Coca-Cola or another soft drink.

Candy bars are usually chocolate but most usually called candy bars.

I found out my first graders didn't know what 'sneakers' were when we read the word in a story. They call them tennis shoes, which seems unusual since none of them play tennis! :)

I mostly hear people refer to going to the bathroom (or restroom); I rarely hear the term washroom.

But you don't have to go far within one state here in the US to find differences. Years ago, we lived in a wonderful rural area about 100 miles from where I live now which had not quite 'caught up' with the rest of the state in some respects. In many ways, this was a positive for the community, not a detriment. But I learned new terms and phrases quickly. If I asked an older lady how she was feeling, she might say, 'I've been a bit draughtsome' (not too well), or she might reply that she was 'pert' (pretty perky). I loved the expressions there, and the food was the best I've ever had anywhere.

Interesting discussion...
Suzanne :)

Re: and "ghoti" is an alternative spelling of "fish"

Suzanne D. on 2/28/04 at 11:45 (145591)

Kathy, I heard my great-aunts, of whom I've spoken of before here and who I adored, say that they liked 'my costume', referring to an outfit. And I say 'cost-yoom'. Is the alternative 'cos-toom'? I guess I had never really thought about how I pronounce that word.

Once, one of my aunts asked what I got on 'deportment' on my report card. I said that I didn't know what deportment was. I found out that they meant 'citizenship' or 'conduct' and that they were just as interested in what I made in deportment as they were subjects of study.

My mother used the term 'behoove' quite often, such as 'It would behoove us to get to bed early since we have a big day tomorrow'. In college I used the word behoove, and some girls in the dorm looked at me as if I had landed here from another planet! They asked where in the world I was from!

I tell my children at school that I still love learning new words. They seem to like the idea of their teacher learning new things and liking it.

Suzanne :)

Re: and "ghoti" is an alternative spelling of "fish"

Julie on 2/28/04 at 12:27 (145592)

In Britain we have neither garbage nor trash. We have rubbish.

We have chocolate bars. Other types of candy are sweets.

We have running shoes, aka trainers. There are also tennis shoes, which are different again, and solely for tennis. I don't think anybody has sneakers.

And we go to the toilet. All other names for that place are euphemisms. Bathroom, washroom, comfort station, little girls' room - all euphemisms.

Re: and "ghoti" is an alternative spelling of "fish"

Julie on 2/28/04 at 12:34 (145594)

Suzanne, in the 1940s, when I was in grade school, we had marks for conduct. Deportment had disappeared by then (if it was ever a category in the Bronx - I don't know).

MY mother used 'behoove' too! I was always being told that this or that would behoove me: usually when I wasn't behooving, sorry, behaving, as she thought I ought to be. I disliked that word, and haven't ever used it, but it's fascinating to know that it was in use in Kentucky as well as in New York.

I forgot to add, in my other post, that when we want a soft drink here we ask not for a can of poop or soda, but for the particular drink we want. We ask for 'A Coke', or 'A Fanta' or 'A Sprite' (there you are, a couple more new words for you!) :)
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Re: Oops!

Julie on 2/28/04 at 12:36 (145595)

Not 'poop'. 'Pop'.

Oh well.

:)
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Re: and "ghoti" is an alternative spelling of "fish"

Suzanne D. on 2/28/04 at 13:49 (145596)

Julie, you are the first person who has ever told me that their mother also used the word behoove! Thanks for telling me. Sometimes I have wondered if no one else said that word! Yes, it always carried with it the need to do something or else suffer the consequences, didn't it? :)

I'll have to admit that I have wondered at times if that word ought to be restored to usage. Sometimes I feel like the children in my classroom are not held to any consequences at home with their family. A large number of parents will excuse any kind of behavior on the part of their child and don't want them corrected. It would behoove them to make their children accountable!

Yes, if we're ordering a soft drink, we must state the name such as Sprite or Pepsi, etc. But it seems to be a habit here that people will say, 'Would you like to go get a Coke?' when they don't necessarily mean a Coke product.

My great-aunts were born right around 1900, so I guess deportment was used on THEIR report cards. I used to love to listen to their stories and look at their quilts. I remember one of them saying what a wonderful time it was to be alive because of all the marvelous inventions that had come about in their lifetime (cars, airplanes, etc.) I can imagine how excited they would be about the internet if they were alive today!

Suzanne :)

Re: and "ghoti" is an alternative spelling of "fish"

Julie on 2/28/04 at 14:23 (145599)

I agree with you, Suzanne. It would indeed behoove parents to set limits for their children. But I don't know if it would make any difference to bring the word back. I think the word must have fallen out of use because the concept of behoovement, and of being accountable ceased to exist. What do you think?
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Re: and "ghoti" is an alternative spelling of "fish"

Suzanne D. on 2/28/04 at 14:47 (145600)

I agree with you, Julie! The concept of being accountable has fallen on hard times. Behaviors are excused for any number of reasons, and children don't have to be very old to pick up on this and try to use it to their advantage.

I was correcting a child recently, and she started to cry and told me someone in her family died, and that's why she was acting this way. I said I was sorry and asked when this happened. 'Well, it was before I was born, and I can't remember their name, but I've heard about them, and it really makes me sad.'

Talk about manipulation! And at only 6 years old!

There's a poem called 'Children Learn What They Live', and that is so true.

Suzanne :)

Re: and "ghoti" is an alternative spelling of "fish"

wendyn on 2/28/04 at 15:09 (145602)

Suzanne, I have to agree with you that children are often not held accountable for their actions any more.

I'm only 35, but I can look at my kids and still see 'how much things have changed' even since I was a child.

Along with the lack of accountability, I notice an amazing lack of responsibility. Some parents seem very reluctant to let children take responsibility for themselves. I'm not sure if it's because their afraid of all of the 'dangers' that could be lurking out there. I can certainly sympathize with parental anxiety, but there comes a point where you just have to start letting kids do things for themselves.

My friend and I each have a son in grade 5. My friend attends all of his son's swimming lessons (even when mom is there), because he won't let the child go into the change room by himself (this is at a respectable facility during swimming lesson time). The child is not allowed to go to a movie with a friend, even if he is dropped off and picked up at the door. The child has a TV and video games right in his room, and is expected to do absolutely nothing for himself (his dad even packs and carries his swim bag for him).

What scares me is that this child will be in junior high in a year and a half. He will be faced with choices like smoking and drinking, and I have no idea how he'll have the maturity to deal with that if he has no faith in his ability to do anything himself.

Maybe I'm off base - I don't know...but how is this type of child going to shift into being self sufficient one day?

Re: and "ghoti" is an alternative spelling of "fish"

Suzanne D. on 2/28/04 at 15:40 (145607)

You're so right, Wendy! I don't think you are off base at all. And, yes, responsibility is often lacking.

I, too, understand parental anxiety, but it seems to me that most of the children in my classroom have parents who are at one of two extremes: they either practically neglect them or they hover over them until they can hardly breathe. Both extremes have bad results, from what I see.

I had an extemely bright little girl in my class three years ago. She was probably the brightest child I've taught in 24 years. Yet, she had great difficulty making friends, and this wasn't helped by very loving, yet over-protective parents.

She came bouncing out of my room one day to meet her mother (never allowed to ride a school bus), holding a birthday party invitation in her hand. 'Oh, Mama, can I go? Please...', she said. Her mother turned to me and said she had never allowed her to go to a birthday party. I told her I would certainly recommend that she let her have those experiences and told her that this particular party would be a good one to let her attend as it was at a public place - a pizza place that has party rooms. I told her I used to go when my daughters were young, and sometimes I even stayed, but I sat out in the regular seating so that they could be in the party room on their own, but I didn't have to worry about their safety as I was there. I could tell she wasn't convinced, and she did not get to go. She home-schooled the child the next two years, but she's back at school this year. I hope she's been allowed to go to a birthday party by now.

Suzanne :)

Re: and "ghoti" is an alternative spelling of "fish"

Julie on 2/28/04 at 15:46 (145608)

I don't think you're off base, Wendy: this is a really sad story. What's surprises me about it is that it's the dad who is so over-protective. How are this boy and the little girl Suzanne writes about ever grow into responsible adults? And what on earth will they do to their children when they have them?
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Re: and "ghoti" is an alternative spelling of "fish"

wendyn on 2/28/04 at 19:00 (145614)

Julie and Suzanne, I'm glad to hear that I'm not alone with this concern. Yes, it's hard to let them go and do things on their own. But somewhere between now and 8 years from now - 10 year olds grow up. They drive cars, they graduate, and (here) reach legal drinking age. Surely it is kinder and safer to allow them to assume responsibility slowly - a little bit a time.

I worry about kids like you mention Suzanne, the ones who aren't allowed to do anything. That is so sad.

Re: and "ghoti" is an alternative spelling of "fish"

Suzanne D. on 2/28/04 at 19:24 (145616)

Absolutely, Wendy. I wish you could come give a speech at one of our PTA meetings! It does seem to be hard for parents to find that good middle ground on this issue.

When my older daughter went off to college, she met a girl who had been home-schooled and otherwise very sheltered. The girl went completely 'wild' with all her new-found freedom. I guess it was too much at once for her. You're right - assuming responsibility a little at a time seems the only way to go.

Suzanne :)

Re: kids

wendyn on 2/28/04 at 19:28 (145617)

Suzanne, we have found it harder to 'let go' of the youngest, but I think the expereince of raising the first two has made us wise enough to let go anyway. Maybe it's easier for us to see what's around the corner!

Not that I like to think about that. My 10 year old is a serious 'ladies man' and the word shy isn't even in his vocabulary. He is very smooth.

He is going to give me grey hair for sure.

Re: kids

Suzanne D. on 2/28/04 at 19:59 (145620)

Your youngest sounds like a little boy who is in kindergarten but reading so well he comes to my room for an hour a day to read with us. He's also in my Sunday School class, so I know him pretty well. He is the ultimate ladies' man at this very young age! He walks onto the playground and little girls just swarm all over him!

I have a feeling his mom may be reaching for the hair dye before he is grown, too! :)

I'll bet your son is a cutie...Actually, I'm sure all three of your sons are fine boys.

I think of your husband often and wish him well.
Suzanne :)

Re: kids

wendyn on 2/29/04 at 09:30 (145642)

Thanks Suzanne, we're looking forward to getting March 22 over with.

Re: kids

Kathy G on 2/29/04 at 09:41 (145643)

I quite agree that you have to let children make decisions on their own prior to middle school and high school or they will be headed for trouble. I think I may have taken it to extremes.

One time my son was home from college and the conversation turned to how he'd been raised. I don't remember all the particulars. Those of you with teens and college-aged children will remember those days. It was around midnight and I had gotten up to say hello when he'd come home. Naturally, for him, a college student, the night was still young and he wanted to talk. The cardinal rule, as far as I'm concerned, is to never say no when your child, no matter what age, wants to talk. So I sat there dutifully and listened!

He said that I had been so much more permissive than the majority of his friends' parents and he thought it was so much easier for him to make the decisions which faced him in college because of it. I was flabbergasted as I always thought I was kind of strict. He said I was, but only in some ways. I was really curious then because I never thought of myself as being permissive. He said that maybe liberal would be a better word and then I really started to wonder what I may have done wrong! When I asked in what way I was liberal, he grinned and said he wasn't going to blow it on his little sister! :))

They're 23 and 30 now and they turned out fine, so far, so whatever areas I was 'liberal' in seemed to work out. I'll have to pin them down on it one of these days!

Re: Spelling Question for England

Kathy G on 2/29/04 at 09:55 (145645)

Now that I think of it, I never call my trash anything but rubbish. Most of my friends call it trash so it must be a throwback to the English/Irish family! I think my husband and son call it trash but my daughter calls it rubbish. That's so odd!

It used to be, in MA, where I lived for my first eight years of life, that soda was called tonic. I don't know if that's still the case. I have worked very hard to eliminate that from my vocabulary but if I slip up and call it that, it's noticed every time.

We also have frappes, here in NH and MA. They are those wonderful concoctions made from mixing ice cream and milk. Milkshakes, to us, are just milk mixed with a flavored syrup.

I know that CT and RI don't have frappes but I'm not sure about Maine and VT.

I do know that when either of my children were sick, especially with sore throats, nothing made them happier than a homemade frappe. For years, my daugher didn't like breakfast so I would make her a chocolate frappe which I made from frozen yogurt, egg beaters, skim milk and chocolate syrup. That way, I figured I was sending her out of the house with something fairly nutritious.

Re: kids

wendyn on 2/29/04 at 16:53 (145664)

Kathy, your story really made me smile. I often pass my son now as he heads off to bed whenI get up for work (he works till about 2:30 in the morning and then stays up for several hours afterwards).

I agree with the addage that says you always listen when your teen wants to talk, since they can go weeks without speaking (to you).

I'm curious now too - I wonder what it is that he meant by his comment. Maybe he will tell you now since his little sister is grown up?

Re: See what I mean? :-) (nm)

elliott on 3/01/04 at 09:36 (145705)

.