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Power levels in mj/mm2

Posted by Dr. Z on 3/07/04 at 08:58 (146335)

Does anyone know what the power level for the ossatron is at 18kv?. Does anyone know what the total amount of energy applied during the treatment is for the ossatron? Any information would be helpful.

Re: Power levels in mj/mm2

MARK L on 3/10/04 at 16:25 (146628)

The Dornier, at it's highest output, level 9, is delivering approx.
.56 mj/mm2 comnpared to the Ossatron's .34 mj/mm2. At treatment level 7 Dornier is @ .36mj/mm2 and the Ossatron is @ .28 mj/mm2. I believe 18kv is their treatment level. If you look at Healthtronics numbers they appear to be much higher than the Dornier but it's not so if you condsider the effective focal energy delivered. I was curious so I spent a little time with my podie friends Dornier Op manual.

Re: Power levels in mj/mm2

Dr. Z on 3/10/04 at 17:00 (146631)

Mark

Do we know what the mj/mm2 for the ossatron is at 18kv. Do we know what th total energy for the one session is in mj/mm2?

Re: Power levels in mj/mm2

elliott on 3/11/04 at 09:51 (146682)

Dr. Z, I know you've been asking for this for a long time, and the general ranges Mark keeps providing, not to mention Ossatron's unhelpful 18 kV, are not adequate for your purposes. The following may help:

In the Buchbinder study I once copied and posted here in its entirety and repeatedly begged you to read claims the Ossatron FDA study's total dose was 1300 mj/mm2, same as the Dornier. Click on this heelspurs link

bbt.cgi?n=98174

then do a couple finds on 'Ogden'. (The text at the first find would have revealed to you way back then that the Ossatron's success figure was a composite of various measures, a tipoff not to use it in a direct R&M comparison to the Dornier.) Truth is, I have my suspicions whether Buchbinder's number given for the Ossatron is a typo, possibly confused with Dornier's or inserted due to a mixup in being given only the useless 18 kV. But if you would have read another link I supplied you recently,

http://www.hmt-ag.ch/ww/en/pub/news/statement_of_hmt_to_article_.htm

it says explicitly that the Ossatron energy density for the FDA PF study was..........(drumroll)

0.22 mJ/mm2,

so I believe all you have to do is multiply that by the 1500 shocks delivered (just read the FDA study! :-)) to get a total dose of 330 mJ/mm2. You owe me!

One warning, though. That very same Ossatron link is misleading (yes, that word is appropriate) by first stating you have to pass all 4 criteria and then giving a chart and text right below it referring to 81% without explicitly saying in the text that the success criteria at the one-year mark changed from that of the 3-month mark; you have to figure it out for yourself. Not that I have reason to suspect that the 0.22 number should be wrong--it just would be nice to verify it elsewhere.

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Re: Power levels in mj/mm2

elliott on 3/11/04 at 10:23 (146693)

Dr. Z:

Addendum: The BCBS paper

http://www.bcbs.com/tec/Vol18/18_05.pdf

I just mentioned in a different thread gives the total Ossatron dose as 1300 mJ/mm2, same as Dornier and as quoted by Buchbinder. See Table 4. So which number is right? Well, in any case, two numbers is better than none at all!

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Re: Power levels in mj/mm2- Help us Bill. Please

Dr. Z on 3/11/04 at 10:56 (146695)

Elliott,

I have that number in the Ossatron manuel. I appreciate your work. I know you research well. Here is my problem with 0.22mj/mm2 number. What is this number? It can't be the 18kv energy level. That would make this LOW ENERGY and we know that the ossatron isn't low energy. The 300mj/mm2 is too low for effective energy Flux . These number don't make sense to Dr. Z
Maybe Bill can't help us out with this discussion.