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Did ESWT help

Posted by Patti on 4/14/04 at 12:48 (148873)

My doctor is considering ESWT for my heel spur problems. I'd like to know how expensive this treatment is and if it gave relief right away. I am reading website that say its only available in Canada, is this true at this time.

Re: Did ESWT help

Ed Davis, DPM on 4/14/04 at 15:47 (148881)

Patti:
The prices are lowest in Canada but it is available in the US. See http://www.unitedshockwave.com and http://www.sonorex.com for domestic locations; also Dr. Z 's group listed above -- Excellence in Shockwave Therapy.
Ed

Re: didn't help me

Tricia H on 4/15/04 at 07:01 (148940)

In fact, my foot is more sore than before the treatment. Think long & hard before doing this! I can't seem to get a response on my case from the doctors on this site either

Re: Did ESWT help

goose on 4/15/04 at 17:06 (148975)

I had ESWT December - I live in MN. It was $5,000 per foot (I did both feet) but the cost was completley covered by HealthPartners insurance. My feet were more tender for a few weeks after and now they are the same as before, so I guess it didn't work. I am having ESWT again next month. I will keep having it until it does work, as long as it covered! I feel I have nothing to lose and will not consider surgery any time soon.

By the way, I have had a seriously bad case of PF for 13 months now- hurt both feet during during a long run....I am continuing with all the conservative treatments as well. Hoping to get out of the running shoes and into a pair of sandals at least occasionally this summer. There are lots of people living with this- you are not alone!

Take care!

Re: Did ESWT help

Angela A. on 4/15/04 at 18:15 (148983)

I had ESWT done twice and STILL had to have surgery for my PF because it was not successful. (Actually, NOTHING has been successful for my PF)
But, I've heard of MANY people who had great success from ESWT. I'd definitely try it before considering surgery. MUCH easier healing time.

Re: Did ESWT help

Ron on 4/16/04 at 18:46 (149032)

patti, I had ESWT in December both feet. My right foot is the same, my left is much worse. Before treatment, I could walk and perform most daily tasks. Now, I use a walker and cannot put any weight on my left foot. Give this very careful consideration. If you read posters on this site, you will find very few positive resaults. BEWARE

Re: Did ESWT help

Ron on 4/16/04 at 18:52 (149034)

beware. This treatment is overrated. I had both feet done in Dec. My left foot is the same, my right is much, much worse. My PF went from bad to very, very serious. Before ESWT I had no problem walking. Now I use a walker and cannot place any weight on my right foot. Please give this very careful consideration. I have not seen any positive posters of late! Beware.

Re: Did ESWT help

Ron on 4/16/04 at 18:53 (149035)

Yes, have this done.

Re: didn't help me

Ed Davis,DPM on 4/17/04 at 21:17 (149070)

You have not asked for one.
Ed

Re: Did ESWT help

Ed Davis,DPM on 4/17/04 at 21:26 (149071)

Ron:
A lot of posters are here because they have difficlult cases. The hundreds of thousands of people who are cured generally do not hang around here. You are doing a disservice telling someone to 'beware' of a legitimate, relatively harmless treatment that will help the vast majority of individuals to whom it is applied. Stating that 'you will find very few positive results' by posters on this site is simply disinformation. We don't know how long you have been on this site, if you had ESWT applied by an experienced provider, if your diagnosis was accurate nor do we know if all other aspects of your PF have been properly addressed. Assuming for a moment that all was 'on target' then there still will be failures -- no treatment known to man is 100 per cent suuccessful. Sorry that you have not been successful but that is no reason to discourage others.
Ed

Re: Did ESWT help

Virginia G on 4/18/04 at 13:33 (149091)

I had ESWT on Feb 18 on my left and most stubborn foot. The results are not immediately apparent but I am slowly noticing how much better my left foot feels than my right (it used to be the other way around). I am having my right foot done next month and at that time they will also do another treatment on my left foot. The results have not been a totally pain free foot but the pain is much more tolerable. I am extremely glad I had this done!!

Re: Did ESWT help

Pauline on 4/18/04 at 22:14 (149107)

Ron,
I don't know you but wonder if your right to discourage this treatment is equal to Dr. Ed's right to encourage this treatment.

I'd say it is because you appear meerly to be expressing your own opinion.

I've not seen the thousands of people cured by any of these machines so I too have difficulty believing they work as effectively as we are lead to believe.

That being said though, I certainly would encourage anyone thinking about having Surgery for Plantar Fasciitis to at least consider ESWT prior to surgery. For as little or poor results as we've had reported here about ESWT, we've had worse reported from surgical patients.

If they can afford it, try it. It's one last attempt at a conservative treatment for P.F. prior to the possibility of a long line of snowballing foot surgeries that can and often does lead to life long foot pain.

Does it cure? I think the door is still ajar on this one.

Re: Did ESWT help

Patti on 4/18/04 at 22:19 (149108)

Thanks so much for responding..my right foot is in a cast at this time and I'm considering ESWT, but have to know more. Right now my pain is almost gone at times which I don't understand how a simple cast can take away the constant pain I was in for months and months. EWST is not a common practice in my area..it only comes to one hospital once in awhile..

Re: Did ESWT help

Ed Davis, DPM on 4/18/04 at 23:38 (149113)

Pauline:
True, but as Mark has pointed out, I have identified myself and I will give more credence to those who do.
Ed

Re: Did ESWT help

Scott R on 4/19/04 at 07:30 (149119)

Patti, there have been a lot of posters here who no longer post because ESWT cured them.

Re: Did ESWT help

Pauline on 4/19/04 at 08:40 (149125)

Dr. Ed,
A doctor posting here can of course say I'm Dr. so and so and practice in X location which is considered 'identifing themselves', but I'm not so certain that a doctor's opinion who is providing ESWT treatment for financial gain and speaking to a captive audience in pain is any more important than person's A or B who having the pain also had the treatment and post from their personal experience, even though they can only identify themselves as Michael the mailman or Betty the hairdresser.

Not having Dr. in front of their name, as an identifing quality doesn't discount their experience for me.

I think the term 'idenifing one's self' expecially if the title Dr. can be used has become synonymous with the idea meaning ' more authority' yet there are still many physicians out there who have not bought into the idea that ESWT helps or cures P.F. and they do not use it. It's my personal belief that this fact provides a counter balance to the postings of people who post here and simply tell their personal experience and who have spent the money for this treatment yet can only identify themselves as Bob, or Bill, or Mary, or Sid. The everyday people simply expressing their experience.

Re: didn't help me

Tricia on 4/19/04 at 12:51 (149139)

not on this particular posting, but on others, and frankly got tired of seeing responses to other inquiries but not mine.

Re: Now, What Should I do, I'm So tired of pain and anxiety?

Mary June P on 4/19/04 at 19:09 (149154)

Well, I have had PF for 14 months or so in my left heel. I have spent about$3500.00 so far on Orthopaedic surgeons and podiatrists and stuff.MY MRI came back normal but the EMG/NCv came back showing abnormalties in my left heel compared to the right.Now I have TTS!!!But my surgeon says sometimes Surgery for decompression helps, (total invasive open surgery) sometimes not. Since this conditon started I have grown a small heelspur and I have received ALL conservative treatments. For the last 4 months or so my right heel is now in pain and developing PF. I work as assistant manager of a huge souvenir retail store and in the summer I hustle around as if in a marathon on hard floors covered in thin carpet. There really is no sit down position and I may have to relinquish this job and I hate to do that.I need my job to raise my boy.. I love my job,for 5 years, but it does not pay insurance. I buy my own BCBS insurance now from the 'special open enrollment' that was offered in Alabama last oCT.. My condition is considered pre-existing and insurance won't cover anything. I can't collect Workman's Comp., and I can't get disability . What does a poor girl do? I am very distraught and I am a single mother with a 15 year old son. What, how, when, and where can a Person get financial help or help learning new skills for a desk job. I am at the end of my rope and this mess has not helped my sweet disposition any. It just isn't so sunny in the south these days........and I miss that so dang much.
MARY JUNE

Re: Now, What Should I do, I'm So tired of pain and anxiety?

Pauline on 4/19/04 at 22:38 (149171)

Mary June,
I'm sorry to hear about all your problems and not certain that we can solve them for you.

I know Brian G who posts here has some experience with Government resources so he may have some ideas for you. Hopefully he will read your post and be able to give you some things to think about.

If you cannot transfer to a desk job at your current company, you may well have to see a different type of employment that can provide you with a desk job. Talk to your employer to see if they can offer you a position that will take you off your feet.

You may also have to lean on family and friends for help as well as your church and other social organizations if necessary.

I certainly don't have all the answers, but at least your asking questions. Hopefully some of the answers provided will prove helpful.

I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers. Try to keep a positive attitude and just keep plugging away. When one door shuts try to find another one that will open. Never give up.

Re: Did ESWT help

Ed Davis, DPM on 4/19/04 at 23:35 (149174)

Pauline:
A doctor has the advantage of forwarding the experiences of anywhere from a handful to thousands of patients he/she and his colleagues have provided a treatment. Providers who don't beleive in a treatment arealso welcome to post. A provider is in a situation where there is always some potential for financial gain but that can be stated about anyone in the industry including manufacturers reps who have, I believe, posted here from time to time but not identifying themselves. I make about 5 times as much on a plantar fascial release surgery as on an average ESWT so my financial incentive is to back surgery, my moral incentive is to back ESWT.
Ed

Re: didn't help me

Ed Davis, DPM on 4/19/04 at 23:38 (149175)

Tricia:
Not every post on the boards gets answered and I don't know where and when you posted. The doctors are here as volunteers and intermittently.
You are welcome to re-ask your question or re-post at any time.
Ed

Re: Did ESWT help

Pauline on 4/20/04 at 08:15 (149210)

Dr. Ed,
I am strictly speaking to the term 'identify one's self' when that phrase is used to discount the postings of all the Michael's who are mailmen and Betty's who are hairdressers that can't add the letters Dr. in front of their names.

I don't discount their personal opinions or experiences they had with ESWT whether it was a postive one or especially if it was a negative one.

Their experience is their experience and if negative it happens to agree with the ideas of many others who do use the letters Dr. in front of their names, but do not have time or care to post here.

These facts don't make the poster nor the doctors wrong in their experience or assessment of ESWT. To me it simply means they disagree with other posters.

Re: didn't help me

Patti on 4/20/04 at 21:49 (149258)

Thank you for responding..I have posted only one question and have received a hundred responses..I have all the information I need for now...many responses seem to be arguing with each other and/or I'm getting answers to everybody's else's questions...I just delete before opening at this point...Patti

Re: Did ESWT help

Ed Davis,DPM on 4/21/04 at 00:29 (149264)

Pauline:
We respect the opinions of all posters but there is an inherent dishonesty when one represents him or herself as something they are not.
Some who appear to be patients may have involvement in field and should identify themselves, stating the nature of their interest.
Ed

Re: Did ESWT help

Pauline on 4/21/04 at 13:03 (149295)

Dr. Ed,
When a person simply signs their name and says they had a negative result from their ESWT treatment I really don't see and inherent dishonesty on their part at all,nor can I figure out how they can state the nature of their interest other than to say 'I'm a P.F. suffer' which they usually state somewhere in their post. Just by being a P.F. suffer accounts for their interest.

There are plenty of Teds, Bills, Bobs and Mary's that just havent' had any relief from being treat by ESWT. Posting a negative response doesn't make them a dishonest person. They are just posting their personal experience having had the treatment.

There are many, many physicians throughtout this country that do not feel ESWT has a possitive effect on P.F. and they do not use it. Dr. Manoli who has posted here happens to be one of them. We have not seem him give the thumbs up to this treatment yet he is considered an outstanding Orthopedic Surgeon.

Personally, I think the door on ESWT is still ajar and we will continue to see both positive and negative results posted here, but I personally will never discount the post of individuals who post under a single as inherently dishonest people simply because they identify themselves as Todd, or Bill or Mary.

I don't live in a house of hierarchy, nor do I believe one exist here so to me everyone is equal when they post.

Re: Did ESWT help

Ed Davis, DPM on 4/21/04 at 16:18 (149301)

Pauline:

We are not discussing the isolated 'I had it done and it worked/ did not work' type post. I am discussing the individual who comes on here acting authoritative and argues the issues with the implication that that person has knowledge greater than the average patient. We have seen a number of such individuals such as a 'Bill' (once referred to as phantom Bill)who was here about one year ago and argued minute details of the procedures, machine efficacies and procedures.

As far as 'physicians' who don't beleive in ESWT, I have not seen ANY of them post here or present their case here. Dr. Manoli is welcome to come here and explain why he may feel that ESWT is not effective for PF.

As far as the door being 'ajar' that is true for every treatment imaginable as the merits of any treatment is open to discussion. One would have to present a very good argument against ESWT considering the mounting mass of evidence in its favor and its exceptional safety profile.
Ed

Re: Did ESWT help

Pauline on 4/21/04 at 19:47 (149322)

Dr. Ed,
I understand what you are saying, however, what I observe doesn't seem to match. Whenever there is a negative report from a general ESWT patient their post tends to be discounted because they haven't 'identified themselves'.

Personally, I feel that they have made their idenity known by posting their name. I believe we've had far more individuals making personal statements that happen to have negative results than we've had any one of them seemingly taking on an authoritative role. The Bill you speak about was one individual, but we've seen many, many posts from the Mary's, Tony's, Bob's and Sally's. Individuals telling their experience. We can't live in fear that every individual negative poster is another BILL.

What I can't figure out is why should a person's negative response to ESWT be sooooo bad even feared here. It appears to me that every form of medical treatment has differing individual results. Some good, some bad and some real ugly. To me all sides of this still unfolding story need to be told.

Re: Did ESWT help

Dr. Z on 4/21/04 at 19:58 (149323)

There has been negative responses to every form of treatment known to man kind !!!. Why should ESWT be any different? I have even read on this site about stretching causing this and that. We are human and humans react differently.

Re: didn't help me

pattyt on 4/21/04 at 20:28 (149324)

Patti

I'm hoping that you take the time to read just one more...I agree with your post..I have pf in my left foot...Dr.Z did my eswt..As of this date,8 weeks into it, there has been no sign of improvement at all..Sometimes I feel like its worse...(My personal feelings and opinion..and I am not a doctor...merely a patient)It's disheartening and depressing waiting for some type of relief..I did get mail from Dr. Z's office reminding me that it takes longer for results..Also, I talked to my regular foot doctor, who told me that one of her patients had the treatment done by Dr.Z..He said the first one didnt work, but the second one worked a miracle..He's like his old self again....so I'm still waiting....
I found this website when I was trying to decide whether I should do the ESWT, and check it periodically, hoping to read a few post for encouragement now that I've done it....I have yet to read a post from anyone saying they are cured... mostly alot of bickering and argueing and alot of 'hopefuls' like me looking for an answer..I'm not sure I buy into the theory that the 'cured ones' are out living normal lives because I can tell you this...If I should ever be cured, you will hear about it on the six o'clock news!!!
Pattyt

Re: Did ESWT help

Ed Davis, DPM on 4/22/04 at 23:11 (149390)

Pauline:
Yes, your perception is correct that we are basically 'on the defensive' when it comes to ESWT. We view ourselves as being in a battle to provide this service and as such we are 'sensitive' to criticisms. The approval proces has become heavily politicized. We also realize that there are a number of patients who may recieve ESWT without a complete treatment plan- a main reason for failures and want to find out if that is the case - statistically and experientially the modality just does not fail to work very often so we need to find out why some individuals fail.
Ed

Re: Now, What Should I do, I'm So tired of pain and anxiety?

Mary June P on 4/25/04 at 02:18 (149503)

I have reduced my work to 3 days a week because of TTS, and I feel alot of friction and uncomfortable feelings from co-workers, even the boss. I know that I'll eventually have to stop working retail and that is sad. Do any of you get tired of the jokes and ridicule at work? Some are nice, some not. It is hard to contemplate interviewing for a new job when you are in pain and facing surgery and the great unknown. I am depressed and exhausted and just want to sleep and someone wake me when it is all over...
I need resources for financial help or good ideas for ' less foot-work' jobs. Thanks for your reply, especially Pauline. Good- night

Re: Now, What Should I do, I'm So tired of pain and anxiety?

pattyt on 4/25/04 at 19:38 (149529)

I know exactly what you mean Mary...I am in the restaurant business....my whole life...Did you ever see a hostess hobble to a table? LOL...My bosses have been great about it, but we all know this cant go on forever..I got my real estate license so I wouldnt be on my feet as much..I am in training now, but my heart and my guts are in the restaurant field..I am still working 4 days there but its pretty brutal..I have to spend my nights completely down so I can go to work the next day...NOt the way I want to spend my life...still hoping this ESWT kicks in...

Re: Now, What Should I do, I'm So tired of pain and anxiety?

Karel on 4/26/04 at 11:43 (149557)

Check out Acupuncture, I am getting it. I have plantars in both feet, mine is from foot surgery and not walking properly. The Right Big Toe the surgery foot went first then the left one in Oct 03.....

I sit most of the time it hurts more when I sit. Also get Dansko clogs they exercise the feet.

Get an ointment or liquid drops called Traumeel by Heel do a web search, it is great stuff for soreness, keep stretching and don't give up.

Re: Now, What Should I do, I'm So tired of pain and anxiety?

Mary June on 4/27/04 at 00:10 (149615)

Karel, Thanks for the info. I am most curious about Acupunture. Keep me posted on that. Take care and I will try the traumeel by heel ointment. I am also considering compression socks. Any relief from those and what brand?
Thanks, Mary June

Re: Now, What Should I do, I'm So tired of pain and anxiety?

Mary June on 4/27/04 at 00:32 (149617)

Pattyt,
Thanks and I hope you will love real estate. Here, on the coast , real estate is booming. Good idea. I'm burning out fast since Spring Breakers hit the beach. Daang, I rest so I can work the next day, too.
Mary June

Re: didn't help me

Janice N on 4/27/04 at 08:28 (149620)

Well whether it works or not I will be having ESWT done today. I have to try something. Cant sleep or do too much of anything with this kind of pain. Have been through the ice, rest, exercises, injection and Celebrex, Bextra, Motrin etc. Even the very strong pain meds I take for a muscle disorder doesnt touch this kind of pain. I moved down the hall a yr and a half ago and being on my fet on such a hard floor caused major inflammation. Before this I had a few flair ups but nothing like this. I thought I knew pain with muscle pain in so many parts of my body. I have three bone spurs and alot of artritis in my right foot. All I can say is Lord help me and all of you too who are suffering. I can truly say I feel your pain.

Re: Now, What Should I do, I'm So tired of pain and anxiety?

Janice N on 4/27/04 at 08:42 (149622)

I live in Texas. I am disabled with another illness. ON Social Security disabilty. There is a place here called Texas Rehabilitation Comission. Just for persons like yourself Help to retrain you or find you a job in another field. Dont know what state you live in but I am sure there is something like this in every state. If you cant find it go to the web site for TRC in Houston TX and ask there where to go for help.

Re: Did ESWT help

Janice N on 4/27/04 at 08:52 (149624)

I appreciate you saying dont discourage others. As I just posted I am having it done today and I was almost in tears thinking is it worth it and will I be in worse pain when I get home. I am in terrible pain in my RT foot. And I dont want surgery unless needed. I am a newly diagnosed Diabetic. Also a former nurse so know to not have my foot cut on if I dont need to. But I am willing to try this proceedure. I do know if this helps alot I will tell of my sucess. And if the pain is alot better then I will spend my time doing some actvities I couldnt do because of all the pain this lasy yr and a half. I and sure those who are better are doing just that. Now I have to get up and put on the dreaded bathing suit and go do my water exercises before I head to the foot dr office.

Re: Now, What Should I do, I'm So tired of pain and anxiety?

Mary June on 5/02/04 at 21:46 (149923)

Thank You ,Janice, I appreciate that.

Re: didn't help me

WendyM on 5/08/04 at 07:52 (150230)

I realize this is an old post (4/27) but if you (Janice) pop in again, I for one would like to know how everything went for you. I am at a crossroad with treatment, surgery or ESWT, and really, I'm torn. My insurance doesn't cover this proceedure (ESWT) and it makes surgery a tempting choice for the cost of a copay. Each individual is so very different..and with all the other sensations I have it's so hard to believe that this is simply PF. What a condition! Please post back and tell everyone your experience.

Re: Did ESWT help

Sally B on 5/11/04 at 15:11 (150411)

I had ESWT on left heel 7/2003. It has not helped my PF.
I've had injections, night splints, many ortho inserts, physical therapy, acupuncture sessions, MRI, xrays, all prior to ESWT. I'm in California, my Blue Cross/Blue Shield paid for the ESWT.
A new pod suggested another round of ESWT (doubt ins would pay for this again) or to endoscopic surgery.
Am now trying exercises w/ tennis ball and just purchased an insert from http://www.yoursole.com
Have been miserable w/this condition for almost 2 years. My heel pain now radiates down arch almost to toes.
Has anyone had endo surgery?

Re: Did ESWT help

Laura R on 5/12/04 at 09:45 (150457)

I have heard from 2 podiatrists that if they do surgery they do not do endoscopic. They feel that they can not see the site well enough doing it endoscopically. I know someone that just had the endoscopic surgery and the entire fascia was cut, instead of just being released, and she has nerve damamge. So I would just say if you are considering surgery than look into the methods of surgery.

Re: didn't help me

Rosemary on 5/18/05 at 15:19 (175253)

Hi, Wendy- I'm a fellow sufferer. I had the surgery in October. Didn't help me. I'm in the U.S. Today I had the shock wave therapy. The surgery was a lot worse to go through. My doctor says to expect to feel some relief in 4-6 weeks. They dont consider it (ESWT) a failure till there's no improvement for 6 months.The company that did the ESWT will re-do for free if there is no result by that time. Beware of the 3 times low level treatment- I'm told it does nothing. Also, I am lucky that after the poor surgery results, my insurance did cover this. (My doctor says it costs about $600.00).My foot is not that bad after all this today, so I am very hopeful at this point- will post again. Good luck- I know this is a hard decision, but I wanted you to know that the surgery (Which was a real nightmare) does not work for everyone.

Re: didn't help me

Rosemary on 6/30/05 at 19:26 (177596)

Ok- so I'm following up with good news.I'm tired of all these bad news doom-sayers, so here's my experience. I had my follow-up visit(after ESWT) with my podiatrist last week, and he pressed on the area. I did not really react; to which he said that I am MUCH better.( I am also dealing with a long recovery from a broken ankle that needed surgery-Christmas Day, 2004-with 4 months of physical therapy- so I have gait problems, joint pain, a whole nightmare and I only add this because everything has been so bad that I really don't know if I'm better or not.)I was dubious at the time because I am really used to all this compounded pain and didn't see improvement to a real degree. Well lo and behold- two days after, I got out of bed in the morning almost like a normal person- after three steps I had almost no pain. I can walk around and do chores and shopping (don't tell my husband!)and at this point I have such relief that I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop- like with the cortisone injections- it's such a tease to have no pain only to have the shot wear off.If this is the answer I'll sing praises-So far so good. Try it if you can- read my post- I've had this for over 20 years....good luck

Re: didn't help me

Patti O on 7/01/05 at 00:31 (177619)

I am encouraged to hear that ESWT is helping people..I just got my cortizone shots in both feet so I'm in bliss.....the shot in the left foot sent me thru the roof with pain..I never felt that pain all the way up to my toes and then about 3 nights later, I got a cramp in the same foot and felt the pain all over again...now, I'm better...hope to try ESWT in the next coming months after I change insurances...good luck..

Re: Did ESWT help

Carol on 9/25/05 at 18:36 (183558)

I think you are not supposed to be running anymore. Swimming is Great for this.

Re: Now, What Should I do, I'm So tired of pain and anxiety?

SUE H on 4/17/06 at 16:58 (197618)

CAN YOU TELL ME HOW YOU ARE NOW?/