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Posted by scott r on 4/17/04 at 21:26 (149072)

some of ya'll know just exactly how weird i am....it's 9:16 pm saturday night and i just sumbled upon the most interesting thing of my week. I'm working on an infrared healer. You may know of infrared devices that heat the tissue to help healing...maybe not much more than a heating pad. But i came across a nasa article about certain frequencies that don't heat the water in tissue and thereby penetrtate more deeply. For some reason these frequencies speed healing by a factor of 4. There are several companies that have some sort of FDA approval for devices that use this. One has approval for diabetic neuropathy. They sell them for $6,000, sometimes $2,000. Well, being an electrical engineer, i happened to know the parts cost about $80. I could build a shockwave device for a couple hundred dollars but that's another story. Anyway, i was wondering how i could quickly see if all 40 LEDs in the the prototype i built tonight were working. So i got clever and pulled out the camcorder which has 'night shot' on it. Wow! My LEDs light up the whole room when looking thru the camera. It's also interesting that i can even seem them on regular mode. so then i looked at the end of my TV remote through the camera while pressing buttons. cool! well, anyway now i have a few aches and pains to experiment on and a new thing to sell at heelspurs.com :)

Re: Cool!

Ed Davis,DPM on 4/17/04 at 21:45 (149076)

But before you sell it here you may need FDA approval?!?!?
Holy smokes -- do you have any idea how overpriced any and all medical devices are (we make the two hundred dollar hammer bought by the Pentagon pale in comparison).Our surgical drill sets are now selling for over $20,000 -- they don't last as long as a $50 Dremel one buys at the hardware store....

PS Now here is a plan. We get a boat and park it off the 12 mile limit, in international waters, get a shockwave unit on the cheap, get our drugs from India (let me tell you) and open up a floating medial clinic :D

Re: Cool!

carolw on 4/17/04 at 23:23 (149077)

I actually know someone who has had a great deal of success developing innovative medical devices that address real needs. He know how to get funding for R & D, manufacture them and matching them to the market. He helped to found two companies that eventually went public and significiantly changed medical practice. He is an electrical engineer, MD, PhD and MBA who has a record of success as a physican, entrepreneur, CEO and Chairman of a public company. He is also connected with a variety of funding sources from grants to VC and angel funds. Scott, he would love the way you think, tinker and focus on service to people who have real and under addressed needs. If you want to learn how to contact him let me know how I can contact you. He will listen carefully, give great advice and if he thinks you have addresseed a viable market need in a way that authentically serves the patient he will want to be a part of what you do.

Re: Cool!

scott r on 4/17/04 at 23:32 (149078)

Carol, i'm the webmaster of this site, heelspurs.com. my email is (email removed) I could use the website to do a double blind FDA study and get it manufactured pretty easily. I've been planning to do the same with magnets, but time has been a constraint. Logically, having a central point for heel pain means the large number of visitors could be leveraged to rapidly and scientifically determine the best treatments. My programming and product fulfillment (shipping) skills make it all pretty much automated. There's no need for VCs unless i want to push it through FDA quickly. But if big capitalists get involved then they'll want a good return on their money....and that's why the devices currently cost $2,000+.

Re: Cool!

marie on 4/18/04 at 18:09 (149097)

Congratulations Scott!

Re: Cool!

Dorothy on 4/18/04 at 23:56 (149116)

Would you say this is analogous to the Anodyne light therapy? Or to the Light Force Therapy? There is a world of difference between the costs of those. I have no idea what the differences between their designs and functions. Studies about efficacy for diabetic and/or peripheral neuropathy are around, however.

Re: Cool!

john h on 4/19/04 at 12:21 (149137)

Scott: About 2 years ago I purchased an Infrared heating pad made in Canada. It cost about $250 and I have forgot what frequency range it operated in. Its description included information about the healing through infrared (not the heat). It had a money back guarantee and I sent it back after 30 days but honestly did not use it daily as recommended. It sure was not your grandmother's heating pad. I will see if I can still find the web site URL.

Re: Cool!

Pauline on 4/19/04 at 18:47 (149153)

This could be your road to fame and fortune especially if you can supply the public with one at a reasonable price.

Re: Cool!

Bob G on 4/20/04 at 06:19 (149198)

Awesome! Good luck!

Re: Cool!

scott r on 4/20/04 at 22:53 (149263)

Thanks for everyone's responses. The $189 Light Force Therapy does indeed appear very similar to what i've made, except they have 3 LED frequencies instead of the one like mine and the Anodyne. Anodyne uses 880 nm like mine. Two of the LED frequencies in Light Force Therapy is in visible wavelengths, possibly outside the beneficial frequencies. Mine is the highest power per sq cm than either: mine requires partial submersion in ice water to keep it from over heating. I've calculated the dosage to be 43 mW/cm^2 which i think is 4 times higher than the others, and it does not pulse off and on to keep it cool. The infrared light itself does not heat, but the LEDs themselves get very hot in 2 minutes when not in water. It's 5 volts, so i imerse the whole thing in water, but i would sell anything like that. I have a new design whos part cost only $15. Preliminary tests with a photodetector are showing sunlight to provide even more than mine in the 700 to 900 nm range, but my calculations say the sun is 'only' 24 mW/cm^2 in this range which is still higher than the other devices. So maybe my 43 mW/cm^2 is too high. What a fraud this is if the sun really does provide more healing light than these $200 to $6,0000 devices. Although, it's hard to find sunlight at night when i want to use mine on my foot.

Re: Cool!

Dr. Z on 4/21/04 at 18:49 (149311)

Keep going this is interesting !!! If you want to talk about FDA stuff . I can help you out. There is only a simple clearance process. No double blind anything

Re: Double blind studies

Ed Davis, DPM on 4/22/04 at 21:13 (149379)

Dr. Z:
True. The methodology used to approve drugs cannot often be extended to all medical services. For example, how would an analagous study be performed for surgery?? That would mean performing phantom surgeries, that is, making an incision and closing the incision on a number of study participants. Is that proper and ethical?

Re: Cool!

Ed Davis, DPM on 4/22/04 at 21:20 (149382)

scott r:
How are you making a decision as to the wavelength you wish to utilize? It is not clear to me which wavelength is potentially more beneficial and why. We know, for example, that ultraviolet absorbtion is needed by our bodies to synthesize vitamin D. Infrared (longer wavelengths) appear to have the vasodilatory effect which appears to be what you are looking for. Vasodilation is a function of heat so are you saying that there exists a vasodilatory effect created by the specific LED wavelengths that is independent of heat?