Home The Book Dr Articles Products Message Boards Journal Articles Search Our Surveys Surgery ESWT Dr Messages Find Good Drs video

Shock Wave Versus Rolfing

Posted by ColleenM on 4/28/04 at 23:42 (149749)

Hello to the PF people!

After many years of living with PF (shots, taping, night splits, icing, resting, streching, y'all know the drill..) I am trying to decide my next move. Both Rolfing and Shock Wave are not covered by my insurance and both will run me about $1200 each.

Let me know if the pluses and minuses of both if any one has any experience with both procedures. I don't see any references to Rolfing on these pages. Have I overlooked them?

Of course if one doesn't work I will try the other. I have given up the Marathon dream and have replaced that with hiking in fall, or shopping at with my Mom without bitching about my dogs after 1/2 hour. Life stuff. You all understand.

I know none of this stuff is 100% guaranteed (why not!?) but want to make an educated guess. Some info: I am a 35 year old former runner, 5'3'' 135 lbs, fairly athletic (biking, weight training) The pain has increased triple fold lately due to excessive time on my feet.

any info will be greatly appreciated,

Colleen

Re: Shock Wave Versus Rolfing

john h on 4/29/04 at 11:08 (149763)

Colleen: I vote for the ESWT. There is some science behind this which makes some sense even though it does not always work. The science behind Rolfing is questionable even though some people may have been helped. Hard to believe that Rolfing cost as much as ESWT. How do you even know the Rolfer is truly trained in his profession? I doubt this is a procedure that has been tested and measured by an agency like the FDA.

I am amazed at how many names people come up with to cover what is basically a body massage in one form or another. How many ways can you massage a body? When you lay the hands on a body there is only so much you can do no matter what you call it. I am somewhat skeptical of all these various body manipulations as you can see. I do enjoy a good massage and there are some benefits from a body massage such as relaxation, increased blood flow. and loosening up muscles.

good luck no matter what you choose.

Re: ART

Pamela R. M. S. on 4/29/04 at 15:53 (149788)

You could look into ART - it helped me, and it helped a couple of other people. My insurance did not cover it. However, it did not cost anywhere near $1200!!!!!! Search for ART on the internet - I think it is called 'Active Release Technique' or something like that. You need a practitioner in lower body.

Re: Shock Wave Versus Rolfing

Buck T. on 4/29/04 at 16:13 (149790)

Hi Colleen: I had shock wave therapy and it is working. My only regret is that I waited so long and tried too many other things first.

Buck

Re: Shock Wave Versus Rolfing

ColleenM on 4/29/04 at 17:12 (149791)

Buck,

I have been living with this pain now for YEARS.. I hope it is not too late for any treatment to work for me. How long did you suffer before getting the ESWT?

I am travelling to New Orleans this weekend and am so nervous about all the walking around I know I will do. I will be taping my feet really tight, that seems to give me a few more miles.

thanks to ALL for the advice. I think I will try the ESWT and if that does not work go for the rolfing. or maybe have one session of rolfing first just to see.

I am not against alternative treatments and at this point will try anything short of cutting my feet open. Why with the rolfing do they have to readjust your whole body and not just the feet/legs?
I guess I don't totally understand the philosphy.

Re: Shock Wave Versus Rolfing

Buck T. on 4/29/04 at 19:13 (149799)

Hi Colleen: I had severe pf in both feet for five years before I had ESWT only on right. Was very skeptical but it is working.

I had surgery on the other (before I knew about ESWT) and after a year still had problems. I recently had ESWT on it and although chances are not as good was told it was worth a try.

Don't know much about rolfing or ART but, you know, why don't you look into these some more?

Good luck in New Orleans. Everyone here has been in your shoes -- anticipating and worrying about a walking venture. We all have worried about prospective vacations, field trips, outing with the family and trips to the mall. Take care,

Buck

Re: Shock Wave Versus Rolfing

john h on 4/30/04 at 11:32 (149833)

Colleen: You also need to understand the difference in the different types of ESWT treatments. We have three different machines in use. All are somewhat different and have different cost. Eash has it's supporters so be sure and understand the difference in these machines and treatments.

Re: Shock Wave Versus Rolfing

Ed Davis, DPM on 5/01/04 at 21:13 (149884)

John:
How many ways can one massage the body? Rolfing, Reiki, ART..... the list is endless. There is some logic behind the various massage techniques. I tried Rolfing -- it is based on a concept by Ida Rolf that one can reshape the body by reshaping fascial planes. Interesting concept but I need to go too, with a concept that has more solid experience behind it -- ESWT.
Ed

Re: ART

Ed Davis, DPM on 5/01/04 at 21:19 (149885)

Pamela:
I am sure that you can find some people that it has helped as I can go through the long list of massage techniques and find their advocates and practitioners who in turn will find a few 'beleivers.' There is definitely something to the various techniques but am not convinced that they are very unique, 'patentable.' I have emailed the originator of ART oln several occasions asking him here, respond to my queries or even allow me to take his 'course' -- no response. Why will he not speak?
Ed

Re: Shock Wave Versus Rolfing

Ed Davis, DPM on 5/01/04 at 21:26 (149886)

Collene:
So many of the 'unique' massage technique advocates imply that there is something very unique about their specific technique that defies explanation. If one goes on the ART websites, the 'originator' offers practitioners a 'self-replicating' marketing based site that extols the virtues of the system but is very short on specifics. Lets be totally open and honest about what those systems of massage are, how they work and what makes them unique. I am very interested in alternative techniques but feel that they, too, should be willing to stand up to the scrutiny of intelligent discussion and scientific inquiry.
Ed

Re: ART

Pauline on 5/01/04 at 21:48 (149891)

Dr. Ed,
I wrote to one doctor also performed ART and he did respond and I posted that response. In it he included his name, address and phone number. I though he gave a good explaination and anyone should be able to see his post by doing a search unless it was removed.

There was no advertisement to it, he simply explained what ART was and how it helped patients..

One non response does not mean anything to me accept try someone. There are many people doing the treatment. In my opinion, the doctor that responded provide a very informative post which others commented on in a positive fashion. The result of his response to my questions allowed them a better understand of this particular treatment.

Re: ART

Ed Davis, DPM on 5/01/04 at 21:51 (149892)

Pauline:
Could you invite that doctor to this board? I had emailed the 'originator' of the technique with the hope of getting as much information from the 'source' as possible.
Ed

Re: ART ps.

Ed Davis, DPM on 5/01/04 at 21:52 (149893)

Pauline:
I am a bit short of time but wonder if I simply send the originator a 'check' if he will let me enroll?
Ed

Re: ART

Pauline on 5/01/04 at 22:03 (149896)

If one cannot get milk from a Bull then I suggest a great cow. I thought the man did a good job in his explaination. He left his address and phone number at the end of his email that was posted. A search will provide you with that information to probe this subject deeper, and extend an invitation to him.

I did not keep in contact with him, but was greatful for his response to my personal questions. I'm certain there are doctors who will also be glad to respond to you and other schools that you could enroll in by doing more research to find them.

Re: ART

Ed Davis, DPM on 5/01/04 at 22:31 (149897)

Pauline:
Unfortunately there is no 'school' of ART but a single source, that is, an individual, who is the originator and grantor of 'certificates' in ART expertise.
Ed

Re: ART

Pauline on 5/01/04 at 22:40 (149898)

If you become a Chiropractor you might be able to take a class as part of your course of study and at the same time increase your current income.

Not bad for a small investment of time and perhaps something to think about if you have a burning desire to practice ART.

Re: ART

john h on 5/03/04 at 08:33 (149931)

About 4-5 years ago my massage thearapist recommended someone she thought was the best around in helping cure PF through some sort of foot and lower body technique. It may have been ART but it is so long ago I cannot remember as at that time I do not think I had heard of ART. What happened was she performed an extremely powerful massage on the feet in particular. She would have me raise my fingers to indicate pain level. For about 45 minutes I was at a pain level of 10 or very near it. This procedures set me back for months. One of the Orthopedic Surgeons I vistied advised me that if one has TTS this type of massage can be very dangerous as you can injure a nerve which may be trapped or compressed. I do not know that this was ART and it probably was not but be very wary of any vigorous massage to the feet if you suspect you might have TTS.

Re: Shock Wave Versus Rolfing

john h on 5/03/04 at 08:35 (149933)

Ed: My question is still there. Just how many different ways can you massage a foot other than varying the intensity? You can give it an exotic name but there is just so much you can do.

Re: ART

Ed Davis, DPM on 5/03/04 at 14:13 (149950)

Pauline:
Sorry but I am not willing to get a chiropractic degree just to find out about a modality that might work...
Ed

Re: Shock Wave Versus Rolfing

Ed Davis, DPM on 5/03/04 at 14:17 (149951)

John:
I agree with you completely. There are only so many ways to apply a massage and only so many exotic names to apply to a massage technique.

It amazes me how many to the 'techniques' comes with a marketing 'package' which includes a pseudo-degree in that specific form of massage. Massage is massage. One can vary intensity, use different tools, different amounts of pressure, massage the tissue in different directions, etc....
Ed

Re: Shock Wave Versus Rolfing

HilaryG on 5/03/04 at 15:31 (149953)

You do not have to be a chicropractor to learn ART. They would be happy to teach it to a podiatrist. Take a look at the website activerelease.com

Re: ART

Pamela R. M. S. on 5/03/04 at 18:45 (149964)

Dr. Davis,

Since you are in the state of Washington, you might want to talk to the practitioner I went to. His name is Dr. James Kurtz, he is a chiropracter (although I don't think that becoming a chiropracter is a pre-requisite), and he practices in Browns Point. You can look up his telephone number on the Active Release web site. He has his several of the ART certifications, including the 'lower body' one.

One pre-requisite to practicing ART, though, (especially in the feet!) is to have hands and thumbs of steel - from what I noticed, it must be physically tough on the practitioner!

What lead me to try ART was a long-term case of PF (what else?). This was one of the very last things I tried, by the way. I did go to a podiatrist at the beginning, and was prescribed a pair of orthotics. These were actually necessary and useful, because I already had orthotics, but my old orthotics had a severe case of fallen arches (lol)! I also did the usual stretches; this also helped some. However, these were not sufficient to get me that much better.

Mike Wilmott's personal foot trainers were also very helpful! You should try these - you'll rediscover muscles in your feet that you didn't know you had!

One of the things I had noticed was on the message board, people were talking about massaging their own feet. I took to massaging my own feet, and found in places (especially on the inside edge of the heel), that I had really lumpy tissue. The lumpy tissue corresponded to areas of pain. This was not present on the non-PF foot. I did some 'golfball under the heel' massage, and found that it hurt ALOT at first, but then things got better, and the tissue got smoother. I used quite a few techniques on myself to get to as much of the lumpy tissue massaged as possible. I then went to the ART practitioner, explained what I had, and what I had already done. First off, he did state that I was on the right track, and that I had already done alot for myself. He then treated me, and of course, he could reach spots that I couldn't. He could also apply pressure that I couldn't. Yes, it did hurt. However, it definitely helped as well! I credit this with definitely getting me past the plateau that I was on.

I don't know what the current theory is about scar tissue and PF, but I definitely had alot of lumpy scar tissue, and this treatment helped normalize it for me.

Re: Shock Wave Versus Rolfing

Ed Davis, DPM on 5/03/04 at 18:54 (149966)

Hilary:
Perhaps. I could not get a response. Perhaps if I just send a check....
Ed

Re: Shock Wave Versus Rolfing

HilaryG on 5/03/04 at 19:20 (149970)

Good point. It certainly isn't cheap. LOL