Rasheed Wallace/PFPosted by Elyse B on 6/01/04 at 15:19 (151723)
The Pistons had an informal practice Wednesday, trying to exorcise the bad karma from lopsided losses to the Nets in games 3 and 4.
But there are two things the Pistons might not be able to shake in time for Friday's Game 5 at The Palace injuries to forward Rasheed Wallace and guard Chauncey Billups.
Both players sat out Wednesday in order to take treatments. Billups has a strained back and Wallace plantar fasciitis in his left foot.
Wallace and Billups felt fine going into Tuesday's Game 4 but were unable to play effectively as the injuries flared up.
'We'll just have to see, Pistons Coach Larry Brown said. 'He (Wallace) was pretty sore (Wednesday) morning. And Chauncey is pretty sore.
Neither Billups nor Wallace spoke to the media Wednesday.
Brown is planning for Game 5 as if both will play, but he has an alternate plan just in case. Both players are listed as day to day.
'Let me tell you this: Every playoff game is a big game, Brown said. 'But now this is a three-game series, and Rasheed is a pretty big part of our team. We're going to prepare like he's ready to play. But that's why you have a bench.
'If he can't go, Elden (Campbell), Memo (Mehmet Okur), Corliss (Williamson), Darvin (Ham), one of those guys will have to step up. If Chauncey can't go, Lindsey (Hunter) and Mike James will have to step up.
Wallace has been contending with plantar fasciitis for the last month. Ice and stretching treatments, plus the passage of time, are healing agents.
Wallace has tried to downplay the effect of the injury, but it's obvious he is hindered. He has a hard time jumping effectively. He is unable to get his usual lift on shots and rebounds.
Wallace was unable to hide the injury in the second quarter of Game 4, as he started limping noticeably after pulling down an offensive rebound.
Billups missed time in Game 4, taking heat treatments to alleviate back spasms that started early in the game.
He was limited to 27 minutes, made 2 of 7 field-goal attempts and scored six points.
Re: Rasheed Wallace/PFjohn h on 6/01/04 at 18:27 (151734)
Elyse: Maybe Corliss Williamson will step up. I know him and my wife knows him better. He works out at a health club we belong to. My wife is barely 5 ft and weighs about 102 lbs. To see her standing with Corliss is a sight to behold. I asked him about PF in the NBA last year and he did say most players wore orthotics.
Re: Rasheed Wallace/PFRobert J on 6/01/04 at 22:03 (151750)
Of course, the fascinating thing about these multi-million-dollar athletes and their plantar fasciitis injuries is the notion that they are limping up and down the court one day, and the next they're playing in the NBA finals. It's like they live in another world than the world we live in, where plantar fasciitis can reduce us to crawling from room to room. In their world, plantar fasciitis seems to be just another nuisance injury that will fade from the sports pages in a week or so.
Do you think the sheer defiance of these people actually works to their advantage? I mean, I find it hard to imagine that Rasheed will find himself crawling to take a pee sometime in the near future. And somehow I find it hard to believe that Randy Moss is going to sit out NFL season coming up.
The question is, how do they do it? What's the difference in their world, and ours? Lidocaine? I'm not sure.
Re: Rasheed Wallace/PFElyse B on 6/02/04 at 08:43 (151766)
Not sure how they do it either. Pain medication, million dollar salaries?
Re: Rasheed Wallace/PFjohn h on 6/02/04 at 09:09 (151771)
Robert: I also often wonder how they do it. Of course some do not do it like Bill Walton who's career ended early. One of the pro golfers lost a year to PF. Some NFL players miss a lot of games with PF and who knows how many dancing careers were ended. Personally I wonder what would happen to me if I just went out and ran three miles? I know I have the lung capacity and will but the thought of doing something perment or making me crawl around keeps me from trying this. I sort of got here by continuing to run when my feet told me to stop.
Re: Rasheed Wallace/PFElyse B on 6/02/04 at 09:45 (151780)
John I stopped running on May 24. I got this around the end of March and continued to run. I bet I too could go out and run but I am not sure it is advisable and am not going to run until I can wake up and be pain free.
Re: Rasheed Wallace/PFelliott on 6/02/04 at 12:58 (151797)
I thought I once heard that professional ball players sometimes say they have PF so their employer (the team) doesn't suspect they have something more serious that might require surgery and/or detract from their contract negotiations. So if, say, one says he has PF when really it's just a ruptured achilles, well, that explains why they can run so well. :-)
John h, instead of 3 miles or bust, maybe just go out and run two laps at a track and then wait several days, and if all is OK, make it 3 laps, and befoe you know it, you'll be back. We're rooting for you.
I will throw out a question to the board: is it possible that after a long long break due to an injury such as PF, even if caused by running, that some real exercise such as very light running might actually help 'cure'? You know, loosen things up. Any chance?
Re: To RobertSusan S on 6/02/04 at 16:22 (151813)
I think you're the Robert who responded to me a few weeks ago. Sorry I didn't respond then. That was about the buzzing in my feet. You said yours came and went, and came with a rough patch. Sure enough, the buzzing has decreased for now. It seemed that the buzzing preceded an increase in pain by a few days, and I don't know why. I guess it's not a big deal. Thanks for your input.
Re: To RobertRobert J on 6/02/04 at 23:12 (151853)
Elliot and Susan--
Actually, I am experimenting with the notion that, after a long rest, some progressive exercise will help dig me out of my PF problem. I'm not running three miles but I am going to start walking, little by little,and also begin some more strenuous strengthening exercises. This is an approach being promoted by James Rainville at Harvard for chronic lower back patients and I figure, hey, it just may work with PF. I'll let you know.
As for the buzzing, yeah, my buzzing stopped when I started stretching and moving my feet more. I wonder if any other atypical PF'ers have had buzzing.
Re: Light running to help cure PF / loosen things upJulie on 6/03/04 at 02:22 (151857)
I'd be very careful. Running doesn't loosen things up. Like all impact activity, it tightens things up. It shortens muscles, unless combined with a stretching programme. For this reason alone it would be likely more likely to exacerbate than help PF (especially if a tight gastroc-soleus-achilles complex was a contributary cause).
But if you really want to try it, for the 'lift' and for the good effect on your general well-being and state of mind, which I know you miss terribly, build up even to 'light' running with increased walking, and be mindful of setbacks.
Re: Light running to help cure PF / loosen things upR C on 6/03/04 at 08:07 (151865)
I'm with Julie on this. My experience with PF is that anything that causes pain will make it worse. That includes running and walking for exercise. However, I have had wonderful results from just stretching the fascia. From sitting position, grab foot by the balls (you know what I mean) and stretch it back, then with other hand massage the fully stretched tendon vigorously, as to lengthen it. It helps to soak the foot in hot water for 20 minutes beforehand. My results were profound after even several days, and they continued to show steady improvement over several months. Of course, if even this stretch hurts, then don't do it.
Re: Light running to help cure PF / loosen things upelliott on 6/03/04 at 08:19 (151869)
I'm not necessarily advocating running, only wondering whether after a very long break with someone who has gotten substantially better over time, running might actually help.
I'm not even sure if the 'if it hurts don't do it' rule is universally true: I spoke to someone last week who had PF. He is somewhat overweight, not athletic by any means. He went to an ortho who gave him a stretching program (he showed them to me; they were standing stretches, but did not include the over-the-step stretch). He said that at least initially it hurt like hell shortly after he does the stretch, but he's been seeing tremendous improvement overall. His doc claimed the stretching program alone cures 70% of the people. Go figure.
Re: Rasheed Wallace/PFjohn h on 6/03/04 at 11:57 (151895)
Elliott I do not know anyone who really tried running. Last year I did climb a serious mountain which was the entire way rock to rock. It was about 1.5 mile up. Lot of stress on the fascia due to steep climb but my feet were no worse or no better. It was really hot that day and dumb me did not take any water so I was really really thirsty by the time I came down. The last 200 yds I was wondering if I had made a serious mistake. With all the rocks you would be in serious trouble if it rained as the big rocks would be like ice.
Re: Rasheed Wallace/PFCarlW on 6/03/04 at 13:15 (151904)
I have been 'forcing' myself to increase my activity level and have seen positive results. I had PF surgery in Nov of last year after 5 years of quality conservative care. I went for a 50 minute walk last week, which was my longest in 5 years with some but minimal pain a few days later. The walk was not pain free but it was tolerable.
As an aside my brother in law 'cured' his PF by resting it for about 5 months and then began a gradual running program again. He felt it broke up scar tissue and helped reallign the tissues.
I know everybody is different but it makes you wonder.
Re: light running debateRobert J on 6/03/04 at 13:54 (151907)
I would commend this article in the New Yorker to anyone wondering about the issue of increased exercise and how it sometimes benefits chronic orthopedic injuries. By the way, I am not talking about running here. I would agree with Julie and others that any significant running is a highly risky endeavor until recovery is very far along. However, other forms of exercise, including some strenuous strengthening exercises and a gradual return to walking, just may produce benefits. I think, as John H observed a few days ago, that PF is an umbrella term for several different kinds of injuries that may require different kinds of approaches. For me, extended rest, even when carried out for months, has never produced diddly squat in terms of recovery. I am an atypical case and I have begun to wonder if the atypical variety morphs into a chronic condition similar to what Dr. Rainville discusses in the New Yorker article, although Rainville admittedly is discussing chronic lower back pain.
Anyway, here's the site:
Re: light running debateDorothy on 6/03/04 at 15:24 (151914)
Robert J - This article you provided a link to is really interesting. In addition to the facts presented, there is a 'sub-theme' as well. For example, what other word could be used but collusion when discussing the physician-lawyer 'conspiracy' described and all using people's spines and lives for unethically acquired profits. Another example that struck me is how primitive and barbaric these procedures sound when we read the descriptions - and yet how often people here and elsewhere reject 'alternative' therapies for being 1. unproven 2. risky and 3. primitive --- all descriptors that could be easily used in these 'sophisticated' surgeries and settings written about in this article. Finally, this article and the one that Elliott linked, point out what vulnerable, manipulated fools and pawns we all are at the mercy of the unscrupulous ones among those groups who have so much influence over our well-being (physicians, lawyers, pharma and the govt regulating bodies, to name a few).
And by the way, did you all hear the recording of the phone conversation between the two Enron execs aired on the radio today regarding the manipulation of energy supplies, etc. in California/Oregon etc.?? Absolutely amazing and outrageous.
Thanks Robert J. - really very interesting - and disturbing.
Re: light running debateRobert J on 6/03/04 at 17:01 (151935)
I agree that the first part of the article is a grim recitation of the perils of some modern surgeries. But the part that most fascinated me was the last half that describes the program of Rainville, the Harvard Med prof, who has been able to reverse the damage of some of the surgeries and restore the backs of people who have suffered for as long as 20 years. The description of the chronic 'pain-cycle' induced in the lower back sounds temptingly like those we are experiencing with the PF, and I'm curious to see if the same approach might work with at least some cases of chronic PF. And I'm going to experiment on myself.
Re: light running debateEd Davis, DPM on 6/03/04 at 17:51 (151938)
I like doing surgery -- it is sort of like a doing a hobby, working with one's hands. The pro-surgery incentive in this country is just unreal though. See the ESWT page today. I mentioned that I or Dr. Z could probably do a plantar fascial release blindfolded and get paid by insurance companies with no questions asked. Come up with a very safe conservative procedure such as ESWT and the burden of proof just goes way up. It boggles my mind to this day the resistance to having ESWT being widespread, the politics of healthcare is beyond belief...
Re: Rasheed Wallace/PF injectionsBudP on 6/04/04 at 04:23 (151983)
One of the announcers slipped and said direct injections with I think novacane or lidocane. I can't imagine how anyone could play bball with bad PF. Golf is excruciating.