Transverse FrictionPosted by Pauline on 6/11/04 at 11:32 (152745)
Do we have a count of how many people are trying this treatment right now?
Seems like quite a few. Please keep us informed. I think it will be so interesting as you compare notes on this treatment and your own course of recovery.
I hope it works for everyone of you.
Re: Transverse FrictionPlace on 6/11/04 at 11:52 (152749)
I am looking for someone who knows this technique and that is well versed in PF. No luck so far. I have an appointment with another massage therapist who says he knows TFM next week. If Goose comes back with a good report, I may just go see Dr. Sandell.
Re: Transverse FrictionElyse B on 6/11/04 at 14:08 (152761)
I am a 'maybe' on Monday. Have to think about it as it is unbelievably expensive and not sure I will get the same treatment as John from MN as for some reason his doctor spends over an hour with him. Only in my or a shrink would a doctor spend that much time with me. But I will keep you posted.
Re: Transverse Frictionjohn h on 6/11/04 at 19:17 (152788)
Pauline even if I were cured I am doing so many things at PT that I could not attribute it to any one thing such as cross friction massage. I am a long way from a cure and will be happy with improvement in the short run and more improvement in the long run. After only two day my initial assessment is that the light stretching will be helpful.
Re: Transverse FrictionPlace on 6/11/04 at 20:28 (152793)
How long is your PT giving you the massage?
Re: Transverse FrictionRose on 6/12/04 at 18:00 (152835)
I had deep tissue massage on Friday on both feet. The therapist tried a little of the transverse friction massage on me and it hurt worse than anything I have ever done. She will do a little each time I see her as I can tolerate. The chiropractor will also 'pop' my feet regularly, which seems to really help. I think he is adjusting the cuboid bone. Anybody know anything about that? It really hurts when he does it, but is is very healing, like deep tissue massage is very healing.f The more pain you can take at the moment, the quicker the healing, I have found. I welcome your comments.
Re: Transverse FrictionRose on 6/12/04 at 18:03 (152836)
One more thing, I was told to soak my feet following the massage at least 30 minutes in epsom salts and to soak them daily. ALso, following the massages tp drink lots and lots of water and then ice the foot several times during the day as well.
Re: Transverse FrictionJohn from MN on 6/12/04 at 20:44 (152845)
Welcome to getting fixed for good. It hurts like hell doesn't it? Make sure you ice your foot 2-3 times a day and walk at least 1/2 mile a day. I put up with a lot of pain, more than anybody said Dr. Sandell, and I got very fast results. Keep the big picture in mind, you will be walking pain free if you are willing to go the course. You will like the fact that results happen fast and that is very motivating.
Re: Transverse FrictionJohn from MN on 6/12/04 at 20:49 (152846)
I was never told to soak in epsom salts, I do not know if that would help or not.
When you get half way through treatment you will think back and wonder why you wasted all your time with night splints, casts, injection, light theraphy, orthotics etc.
Re: Transverse Frictionjohn h on 6/13/04 at 10:34 (152872)
john from MN: How long did each treatment of massage last on each foot? How many times a week and for how long?
Re: Transverse Frictionjohn h on 6/13/04 at 10:43 (152874)
Not long enough in my estimation. I will discuss this with him Monday on my next visit. One of the sites that I think Dorothy listed explaining Transveres massage had about a 10 page explanation of how to do it. I am going to pass this on to a licensed massage thearapist I use on occasion. She is into learning new techniques and the info is detailed enough that I think she should grasp it. At $50 hour it is beats the $150 you are paying. My present therapy is covered under insurance and I think is for about 3 weeks. If my therapist does not get more into the transverse massage I will go at it with the massage thearapist. I have only two sessions under my belt at the moment so I am looking to far ahead. I will say my feet are slightly better than when I started. They were worse after day one. I think each of us have to really get involved in our treatment. A thearapist,Doctor,etc will do thier part generally but we can not just lay there and expect results.
Re: Transverse FrictionJohn from MN on 6/13/04 at 10:58 (152875)
The TFM alone was 25 minutes per foot 2-3 times a week. The whole session lasted 1 hour. TFM is only part of the solution. My hip flexors were really tight along with pretty much everything else on my legs. The cool thing was after one week of treatment I felt a noticable difference. Keep in mind between theraphy and stretching/walking at home it took 2 hours a day of my time and well worth it.
John h, take my advise, do not waste your time with anything else on this board for fixing your feet except stretching and fiding a an expert in TFM.
Re: Transverse Frictionelyse b on 6/13/04 at 20:39 (152906)
John h-- that is my concern with the guy I am supposed to see tomorrow for $185.00 I am thinking it might be better to see either a PT or a massage therapist who can spend more time doing the TMF. I think maybe I will go the appointment and see what he has to say, it is only for one visit. I am going to type up everything from John from MN described that Dr.Sandell did and show it to him. It is my best guess that he will laugh in my face that John from MN gets all that treatment over 1 hour for $40 and will say he can do all that and more. It is a tough choice whether to see a PT or a massage therapist. This is a full time job interviewing massage therapists and trying to find a PT who 'admits' and really 'knows' TMF. They all say they know it. Very confusing. What I am finding out this weekend is that my feet feel worse in sneakers with orthotics than regular shoes. So odd.
Re: Transverse Frictionjohn h on 6/14/04 at 09:27 (152930)
Elyse: $185 seems out of line to me. I can see a Neurosurgeon for less. Since my PT is covered by insurance I do not know the cost but I bet it is less than $75 per hour. Around here certified massage therapist typically charge $55 per hour. After all is said and done if it works $175 is a steal but if it does not you have been robbed.. .
Re: Transverse Frictionjohn h on 6/14/04 at 09:42 (152933)
John from Mn: To late. During the past 10 years I cannot think of anything I have not tried. I have seen people on this board post many things that reportedly cured them. I always remember Mohez who had very bad bi-lateral PF for many many years. He was one of the first to have ESWT when he and the so called Ossatron 6 went to Canada at the expense of the President of Healthtronics to have ESWT. Mohez eventually had 11 ESWT treatments on each foot with 3 different machines over several years. A couple of years ago was his last post and he reported a complete cure and was back to running. I have seen many reports of people being cured by surgery including our buddy Judy S's husband John. Then there are some terrible failures with surgery. I am into science and the scientific method but with PF I throw it all aside and will try Voodoo if somewone says it works. Inquiring minds want to know..
Re: Transverse FrictionElyse B on 6/14/04 at 10:16 (152939)
there you go, that is what I think but how does one know. I am making an appointment with a physical therapist for next week who is covered by my insurance. Massage therapists charge $100 in NYC. Expensive place to live no? This physical therapist spoke to me for over a 1/2 hour and seems very, very knowledgable. He knows all about TMF and it is his belief that you have to get at the root cause of PF which mostly is tight achilles and tight calf muscles. It is his belief also that the key is to get the PF to simmer down and get the symptoms down and he is a bit suspect of TMF doing just that.
It is all a crap shoot. It is interesting to note that when I take my orthotics off, my feet feel better. Go figure.
In any case, I am sticking with one thing and that is physical therapy where I can get all the modalisties, stretching, TMF etc. and it won't bankrupt me. This $185 is ridiculous.
Re: Transverse FrictionElyse B on 6/14/04 at 10:19 (152941)
I will repeat what I wrote early. Two physical therapists and a podiatrist confirmed that 're-tearing the fascia and realigning the fascia' is incredibly dangerous and suspect. But again if it works for some. That is the thing with this. Thinking that TMF is going to be the cure is wrong because it won't be. It will only work for some.
Re: Transverse FrictionJohn from MN on 6/14/04 at 10:33 (152945)
You have had PF for 10 years? Man, I do not care how you get fixed just get better, I can really empathize with your situation. My PF started when I was 28, I was the youngest patient my doctor ever gave ESWT.
Re: Transverse FrictionPauline on 6/14/04 at 12:10 (152959)
Something to think about. If tight achilles and tight calf muscles are the root cause of PF. then one must ask themselves why do Ballet Dancers,
Ice Skaters and many athletes seem to get it.
Surely a Ballet Dancer doesn't have problems with tight achilles or calf muscles. Maybe you should throw this response at him.
The strain put on their feet must play a role for these people.
I can't imagine a tightrope walker with P.F. Now that would be a life changing experience.
Re: Transverse FrictionElyse B on 6/14/04 at 12:36 (152961)
I wish I knew the answer, I think there are no answers.
Re: Transverse FrictionElyse B on 6/14/04 at 12:39 (152962)
I guess what I am trying to say is that NO ONE knows how to CURE PF. What I am learning is that every physical therapist, chiropractor, massage therapist, podiatrist has their own tried and true method of treating this. My brain is actually on overload.
But I do think atheletes have very tight muscles, I think the more you exercise the shorter your muscles get and unless you stretch, massage etc., then this is what happens. Professionals can afford to have someone stretch them and spend the time to have massage etc.