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Dr Sandell and his methods, your thoughts

Posted by Elyse B on 6/29/04 at 16:09 (154166)

I am at a loss with this. First of all, Dr. Sandell is very young, he has only been in practice for about a year. I spoke to him and he really believes he is not doing anything radically different from what any other chiropractor or practitioner should be doing, i.e., transverse friction massage and graston etc.. I know he is very, very strong and gets in their very deeply with the TFM.

Remember I am a 'newbie' at PF, and before I 'annoint' Dr. Sandell for sainthood, (and I do await hearing from Place or Goose) can someone give me a hint as to why there have not been any postings from PF sufferers who have tried this kind of treatment and why we have not heard about any other doctors who have been able to put all this stuff (TFM, graston) together like Dr. Sandell to make this work? It makes me wonder. Maybe those who have tried this do not post.

Re: Dr Sandell and his methods, your thoughts

Dorothy on 6/29/04 at 16:29 (154169)

Excellent questions, Elyse B.
I am also wondering why we have not heard from Place and Goose lately - or maybe we have and I have missed it. I've been out of the loop for a little while.
Elyse, do you have any Achilles problems?? Do you know if these techniques (TFM, Graston) are used for Achilles problems??

Re: Dr Sandell and his methods, your thoughts

John from MN on 6/29/04 at 18:26 (154174)

Age is a big problem. All the other doctors I saw were all over the age of 40 and they were clueless on how to solve my PF. It took Dr. Sandell with 3 years of experience to cure my PF in little over 2 months. I would stay away from any doctor who's medical knowledge is so out of date.

Re: Dr Sandell and his methods, your thoughts

Dr. Sandell on 6/29/04 at 19:17 (154175)

Elyse,
Maybe you might find it helpful if you knew a little about myself. As you know, I have a private practice in Minnesota where I specialize in the treatment of chronic pain and sports injuries. I have been in private practice for about 1 year and I have been practicing for about 2 ½ years. I went to undergraduate school at the University of Minnesota Duluth and received Bachelor's degrees in Exercise Physiology and Human Biology. I went to chiropractic school at Northwestern Health Sciences University in Minnesota where I studied under Dr. Hills, PT, DC, who in addition to a chiropractic physician is also a licensed physical therapist. In addition to a chiropractic physician, I am also a certified chiropractic sports physician, certified athletic trainer, certified strength and conditioning specialist and I am currently finishing my diplomate in sports medicine. I have attained over 1500 hours of post-doctoral studies in the most recent advancements in sports medicine and rehabilitation. What does this mean? I have a unique and diverse education which allows me to manage injuries through a multidisciplinary approach. A multidisciplinary approach means that the patient is managed through combining several different perspectives and philosophies, and using the most effective procedures. I utilize many forms of soft tissue mobilization (i.e. transverse friction massage, myofascial release, Graston, ART ect.), neurofascial mobilization, proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation (PNF) stretching, range of motion and strengthening exercises, joint manipulation and mobilization, modalities of ultrasound, ice, heat and electric muscle stimulation, rehabilitative exercise, cardiovascular exercise and instruction in independent home care programs. Understanding how the different tissues and systems are affected by an injury, and more importantly how to rehabilitate these areas, are really the key. This information is only to answer some questions that you might have. I do not have all of the answers nor do I portray that I do. My caring nature is what motivates me to continue learning, with only hopes of providing better care for my patients.

Re: Dr Sandell and his methods, your thoughts

Dr. Z on 6/29/04 at 19:43 (154179)

Dr. Sandell,
What is your typical evaluation and 'work-up' for chronic plantar fasciitis. How about what is called atypical plantar fasciitis, the type where there is no first step morning pain.

Re: Dr Sandell and his methods, your thoughts

Pauline on 6/29/04 at 22:15 (154193)

Elyse,
My take is that we have heard some similar posts but perhaps the treatment called by a different name. The P.T. from South Africa who treated me didn't give her type of massage any name she just did it.

I have to admit there is no way to compare her cross band type of massage, but it did work>

My opinion for what it's worth is that Dr. Sandell has no magic for curing P.F., but merely another form of treatment that stimulates the body to cure itself. He could give it a hundred different names, but as long as it provides relief the name of his massage method really means nothing.
It's basically the success he has using the tools at the ends of his arms and his knowledge about tissues stimulation.

I doubt his diagnosis methods are any different from any other doctor on this site. Heck we've heard patients self diagnosing their own P.F. after reading posts and probably Scotts book so I don't think diagnosing it is as difficult as accepting the fact that's what you have. It doesn't go away fast so we all begin to look for another reason why our feet hurt so much and we go off hunting for other reasons. Two opinions later and hundrends of dollars spent on trial and error products we settle into the reality that P.F. is really the cause of our pain. Once accepted I think we move in a more postive direction toward finding relief.

Re: Dr Sandell and his methods, your thoughts

Pauline on 6/29/04 at 22:27 (154196)

Elyse,
My take is that we have heard some similar posts but perhaps called by a different name. The P.T. from South Africa who treated me didn't give her type of massage any name she just did it.

I have to admit there is no way to compare her cross band type of massage, but it did work.

My opinion for what it's worth, is that Dr. Sandell has no magic for curing P.F., but merely another form of treatment that stimulates the body to cure itself. He could give it a hundred different names, but as long as it provides relief the name of his massage method really means nothing.
It's basically the success he has using the tools at the ends of his arms and his knowledge about tissues stimulation.

I doubt his diagnosis methods are any different from any other doctor on this site. Heck we've heard patients self diagnosing their own P.F. after reading posts and probably Scotts book so I don't think diagnosing it is as difficult as accepting the fact that's what you have. It doesn't go away fast so we all begin to look for another reason why our feet hurt so much and we go off hunting for other reasons. Two opinions later and hundrends of dollars spent on trial and error products we settle into the reality that P.F. is really the cause of our pain. Once accepted I think we move in a more postive direction toward finding relief.

Some want us to believe that ESWT is the answer maybe even the only answer, but like others that have posted no relief from it, I've come to have my own doubts about that expensive treatment too especially when no insurance companies what to pay for it. To me this speaks volumns considering its been about 2 years now.

Re: Dr Sandell and his methods, your thoughts

Pauline on 6/29/04 at 22:29 (154197)

Have no idea why all the duplicate posts. A one time click posted several, sorry. Maybe time for a check up on the board.

Re: Dr Sandell and his methods, your thoughts

Dr. Z on 6/30/04 at 01:06 (154199)

' Some want us to believe that ESWT is the answer maybe even the only answer, but like others that have posted no relief from it, I've come to have my own doubts about that expensive treatment too especially when no insurance companies what to pay for it. To me this speaks volumns considering its been about 2 years now.'
Pauline where did you get the idea that NO insurance company want to pay for ESWT. ? There are many posters on this board stating that insurance has paid for their ESWT treatments. From my experience in my area ESWT is covered by MANY insurance companies.
Why does an insurance company coverage determine the success of a procedure ? There are many sucessful, podiatric procedures out there that insurance companies won't pay ie the cutting of a simple toe corn that is very painful. This is a procedure that isn't covered but if covered may just cause an insurance company to pay for something that they figure isn't cost effective . By the way the cost of cutting a simple cut is about $45.
So in conclusion its not the cost, it not the success it is the determination of whether an insurance wants to be responsilbe for payment. Its plain and simple. So simple that even a corn cutting can't get insurance.
Ever try to get your painful tooth cavity covered these days. Ouch !!
I guess you would have to just put your foot into your mouth and hope that either your pf or tooth pain goes away some how just waiting for your friendly insurance company to determine if it is sucessful or cost effective

Re: Dr Sandell and his methods, your thoughts

elyse b on 6/30/04 at 04:15 (154201)

thank you Dr. Sandell for posting. I know you do not portray that you have the answers, I was just wondering about other posters and their experiences.

Re: Dr Sandell and his methods, your thoughts

elyse b on 6/30/04 at 04:17 (154202)

i do not have Achilles issues, I would assume that TFM and Graston could be used for them. Goose and Place will be posting shortly after one week with Dr. Sandell and I believe they are having a lot of success,

Re: Dr Sandell and his methods, your thoughts

Pauline on 6/30/04 at 09:01 (154206)

Dr. Z,
For the sake of saving a long drawn out thread substitute the word 'most' for 'No' in my post. 'most insurance companies will not pay for it'.

The truth is that since ESWT has come out I have chanced my mind about the effectiveness of the procedure. It hasn't yet achieve the blessing of most insurance companies and looking at it from another side it might just be saving people money.

Re: Dr Sandell and his methods, your thoughts

john h on 6/30/04 at 10:14 (154212)

Achilles problems are best treated with tried and true methods normally employed by a Physical Therapist. Over the years I have strained and had repetative injuries of the achilles and have always been able to work them out with a PT. No magic involved with these problems unless you have one that is torn. I would first see an Orthopedic Specialist perhaps one in Sports Medicine to confirm the tendon is not torn and he will more than likely refer you for PT. I would forget Chiropractors and various other techniques and go with what is proven over time to work.

Re: Dr Sandell and his methods, your thoughts

john h on 6/30/04 at 10:23 (154214)

Pauline as you have seen me post many times I continue to believe what we mostly refer to as PF could be a multiude of problems which we all lump into a catch all name of PF. The problem remains Doctors cannot positively identify the 'pain generator'. This is often the case with low back pain and why low back surgery often fails. This also has a catch all name 'failed back surgery syndrome' or the good one 'degenerative disc disease'.I think it is only in the last 50 years or so that we have come to recognize cancer as a multitude of diseases. Like cancer if we need to learn a lot more about foot pain but since it is not a life threating disease we have no research going on and hit and miss treatments.

Re: Dr Sandell and his methods, your thoughts

Dr. Z on 6/30/04 at 10:46 (154219)

This may or may not be true. Do you know this as fact or just a gut opinion.

Re: Dr Sandell and his methods, your thoughts

Place on 6/30/04 at 10:48 (154220)

I know many of you are waiting for some sort of definite answer from me but you all have to understand that I have to be 100% sure about the success of my treatment. It is my responsibility to make sure what I am telling you is accurate. For me to post something this early would be premature and irresponsible. My hope is that you all can learn from my success or mistakes without the associated costs. I will be posting my final conclusions sometime next week.

Re: Dr Sandell and his methods, your thoughts

Pauline on 6/30/04 at 11:05 (154223)

Place,
A very responsible answer. I hate to see everyone waiting for the definitive word 'CURED' to come out of your mouth because what ever you report can only be defined as your own personal experience within a specific time frame, nothing more and nothing less.

Re: Dr Sandell and his methods, your thoughts

Elyse B on 6/30/04 at 11:05 (154224)

I agree with you Place and I wish you luck and I hope you are doing great!!! I think Dr. Sandell is definitely on to something awesome. I believe that the deep tissue massage and graston is definitely the way to go with this.

Re: Dr Sandell and his methods, your thoughts

goose on 6/30/04 at 12:01 (154244)

Hi guys,

Much like Place, I have been waiting to post about my treatment until I know for sure how I am feeling. It is still too soon after only 2 weeks. After I have treatment my feet are sore and just as soon as they start to feel better, I have more treatment. I can tell you that I walked 3/4 mile with minimal discomfort, up from 1/2 mile. My feet are still not great in general but I have had some good days with fewer bad flare-ups. I plan to continue treatment for another 4-6 weeks or so and should really know if it 'works' by then. The scar tissue is real and it takes time to be broken up and remodeled.

The treatment itself is like John from MN described, quite aggressive and not-so-pleasant but it feels like that is necessary to undo the damage that has accumulated. I am not getting worse in any way, which was my main concern! I have next week off of treatment for my vacation but will resume once I am home. It would be great if I was back to normal in only 2 weeks but that just isn't realistic. I am hoping to be doing much better by August and maybe running by September? (Oh my gosh, I will freak out if I can run again!). Dr. Sandell is really great, however, I hope you all can find someone similar close to your home since treatment can take many weeks.

I will post when/if I notice any changes or improvements!!!


goose

Re: Dr Sandell and his methods, your thoughts

Dorothy on 6/30/04 at 12:16 (154249)

Thanks, goose! Continued good wishes - and have a nice vacation.

Re: Dr Sandell and his methods, your thoughts

char B on 6/30/04 at 14:28 (154264)

Dr. Sandell, where at are you located at in MN????
I live in weastern North Dakota, do you know of anyone closer to me that does your treatment that could help me?

Re: Dr Sandell and his methods, your thoughts

John from MN on 6/30/04 at 14:34 (154267)

His office is 15 minutes NW of Minneapolis.

Re: Dr Sandell and his methods, your thoughts

Dr. Z on 6/30/04 at 18:59 (154292)

Goose

What are your goals for this treatment?. What level of activity did you have before your pf pain. I am trying to gauge your success by level of pain and increase level of activity with decrease levels of pain. 3/4 of a mile is not bad but we have nothing to compare this with.

Re: Dr Sandell and his methods, your thoughts

elyse b on 7/01/04 at 05:11 (154310)

I beleieve she was training for a marathon and was doing 19 miles when this happened so she was pretty active