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would like pod and c-ped opinion of deep massage..others too

Posted by Linda V on 9/29/04 at 11:40 (160687)

hi,
what do you think of deep foot massage for PF? i went to a lady (calls herself a massage terrorist) and she worked my feet like i never thought possible. i wasjust about in tears, but she insisted that the hard little bumps she kept finding needed to be 'broken up'....and she 'stripped' my leg muscles from the glut down...i was in pain for a few days, but then back to baseline. i am in the slow process of improving (week to week, not day to day) but wonder if you think this is harmful?

Re: would like pod and c-ped opinion of deep massage..others too

Pete on 9/29/04 at 11:56 (160688)

If you do a search on 'Dr Sandell' you will see various posts of his success in treating 3 people on this site using transverse friciton massage (TFM). Dr Sandell's comments on why this works made sense too many of us on this board, but of course the proof is in the pudding. Dr Sandell works in Minnapolis and if I lived close by I'd try him. His treatment is painful, but works for some.

The success of massage is based purely on the quality of the practitioner, in my view. Anyone can massge the foot, and it will of course hurt if you have pf. But as Dr sandell says, if you are 1/2 inch out from finding, and then massaging,the scar tissue, you may as well be massaging the shoulder. I'd only go to someone who has experience in treating pf.

Good luck

Re: would like pod and c-ped opinion of deep massage..others too

Linda V on 9/29/04 at 14:50 (160692)

hi, my massage therapist never heard of either transverse friction massage or graston, but she has studied medical massage and seems to have good knowledge of PF. I found here by contacting a local running club and asking them for help. she successfully treated a runner there with PF, so i suppose i should stick with her (2 treatments so far)..

Re: would like pod and c-ped opinion of deep massage..others too

BLT on 9/29/04 at 19:33 (160706)

Can somebody tell me what type of tissue those little bumps are and where do they go when they get broke up by rubbing them? How does the body know to absorb these floating bodies once they are broke off?

Re: those hard little bumps in the feet

Linda V on 9/29/04 at 22:23 (160713)

Whatever they are, they feel like little bee-bees....my therapist told me my own body would break them down (enzymes) and absorb or eliminate them. Love to hear what others think they are and where they go..

Re: would like pod and c-ped opinion of deep massage..others too

Ed Davis, DPM on 9/29/04 at 22:34 (160716)

Linda:
I would not be concerned about her not recognizing some of the technique names. John once listed a very long list of names affixed to massage techniques. The names imply that there is a uniqueness or special quality to certain techniques that is conjecture. Deep tissue massage is an adjunctive technique that focuses on the tissue quality issues and possibly the inflammatory processes involved. For some, they can be the primary modality for help; for others, probably the majority, a combination of modalities is needed. I like to talk of the treatment triad: inflammation, biomechanics and tissue quality. All 3 issues need to be addressed to some extent in most patients but in differing degrees depending on the individual situation.
Ed

Re: would like pod and c-ped opinion of deep massage..others too

Cindy W-A on 9/30/04 at 11:29 (160764)

Linda: I also just started some deep tissue massage with a chiropractor - I've been 3 times so far and like you, I appear to be back to baseline at this point. I'm sore for a day or so after each treatment but then bounce back. He's doing a combination of techniques which include ART and Graston. It's painful but he always seems to stop at the point where I don't think I can take any more. It's very different from the massage I was receiving at physical therapy which didn't hurt at all. I'm still waiting to see though if this is going to be an overall improvement. Good luck with your treatment!

Re: those bumps and crepitus? Cindy W-A

Linda V on 9/30/04 at 20:35 (160797)

Cindy,
Does he find those hard little bumps..and talk about crepitus (which is like smooshing the air in rice krispies)? Yes, my therapist tells me to let her know when the pain is a '7'...and she backs off. Nice lady, I do believe she wants to help me, and she has helped another person I know with PF, too. Do you have PF in both feet? Good luck with your treaments...let me know how you are doing..

Re: those bumps and crepitus? Cindy W-A

BLT on 9/30/04 at 22:15 (160803)

Isnt most crepitus from a joint? Like putting your hand on an ankle or knee and felling popping and grinding as you move it thru range of motion. How can there be crepitus on the bottom of a heel?

Re: Crepitus in feet?

Linda V on 10/01/04 at 08:05 (160817)

Cindy, as far as I have learned, crepitus is trapped air pockets. I used to feel it on patients who had a chest tube after punctured lung and had trapped air that had escaped into their subcutaneous tissue. and i could really put my hand on them and it felt like rice krispies crackling. But I don't know how (or if) thats what she pops in my feet. Hope the docs or a massage therapist could answer this more.

Re: Crepitus in feet?

Dr. Z on 10/01/04 at 08:31 (160819)

Linda V
Crepitus is used to describe the condition of a joint when we are talking about the foot and ankle. It is usually a grinding sound due to the joint surface being worn away

Re: Crepitus in feet?

Cindy W-A on 10/01/04 at 11:22 (160831)

Linda: I don't get the 'rice krispies' feeling when he's working on my foot - it just feels bruised or sore. (I only have PF in my right foot.) He also adjusts my foot which feels weird but doesn't hurt, and my back. I'm going again this morning. Keep me posted on how you're doing as well!

Re: Crepitus in feet?

RACHAEL T. on 10/02/04 at 22:29 (160917)

At the onset of PF 3 yrs. ago, I had lots of 'rice crispies' in the soles of my feet. I had a massage therapist who 'popped' them or rubbed them out...which didn't happen overnight. She worked on these 'bumps' for a long time till they finally dissipated little by little. I 'thought' these were 'fibromas' but I am unsure. Anyway, now, my soles of feet don't have them anymore - but just get sore on bottom like bruises from time to time, & particularly at balls of feet. I think that is attributed to different activities as well as different types of walking surfaces - & maybe orthotics? I think you should continue the massages to alleviate the bumps - as the massages certainly did help me with this same problem.

Re: Crepitus in feet?

Linda V on 10/03/04 at 14:11 (160932)

Rachael,
Whats the status of your PF now? Thanks..and btw, I looked up crepitus in my Mosbys medical dictionary. It has THREE different meanings....but I feel sure my massage therapist meant popping out those rice krispies!! My feet also get sore, like bruised, and I don't have much of a heel fat pad left. In fact, soles of feet feel like old shingles first thing in the morning. What helps you? Thanks..