Sonorex treatment results.....Posted by Ed Davis, DPM on 11/12/04 at 23:20 (163782)
The results from the Siemen's Sonocur are impressive:
This looks at worldwide usage of Sonocur, off FDA label in the US. I beleive that the feet of Canadians and Europeans are not different from those of US citizens.
Re: Sonorex treatment results.....Ed Davis, DPM on 11/12/04 at 23:26 (163783)
Dr. Day of Vancouver, BC lists an impressive 6500 treatments:
'When you've gone through all the other options and realize how ineffective many other treatments are, you can't help but be amazed at how well this treatment works,' he said. 'It was unbelievable. It made a significant difference, so that I was not only able play in tournaments, I was able to win again.'
Chambers is happy to report that he hasn't had a recurrence in the pain since the treatment a year ago. The only thing keeping him from playing tennis these days is studying for his law degree.
Brian Day, M.D., an associate professor in orthopedics at the University of British Columbia, has seen excellent results with the 6,500-plus treatments that have been given to patients like Chambers at the therapy center in Vancouver
I have sent patients to Vancouver and use the Siemen's Sonocur. It has provided tremendous results at a very reasonable cost. Yes, it would be nice to have the FDA 'blessing' although so many things are used off label nowadays including drugs. Some drugs are used more 'off- lablel' than 'on-label' such as Neurontin which is used off label for neurogenic pain more than it is used 'on label' for seizure disorders.
Re: Sonorex treatment results.....Ed Davis, DPM on 11/12/04 at 23:28 (163784)
Looking at plantar fasciitis:
Re: Sonorex treatment results.....Locating a provider in the USEd Davis, DPM on 11/12/04 at 23:33 (163785)
The above link allows you to locate a provider in the US.
Re: Key concepts of low energy ESWT via SonocurEd Davis, DPM on 11/12/04 at 23:36 (163786)
Re: Sonorex treatment results.....john on 11/13/04 at 07:59 (163805)
You mentioned Neurontin. Here is the complete story on off-label use of Neurontin, directly from the FDA website, reference included.
'Pharmaceutical manufacturer Warner-Lambert has agreed to plead guilty and paymore than $430 million to resolve criminal charges and civil liabilities in connection with its Parke-Davis division's illegal and fraudulent promotion of unapproved uses for the drug Neurontin (gabapentin). The drug was approved by the Food and Drug Administration in December 1993 solely for use with other drugs to control seizures in people with epilepsy.'
The full story is at http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2004/404_wl.html
Re: to Dr. E Davis Re: Sonorex treatment results.....vince on 11/13/04 at 08:28 (163807)
What is your business relationship with Sonorex? Do you own or lease their ESWT equipment? Are you an investor in the company that manufactures or distributes the Sonorex? Are you an investor in any company that provides ESWT using the Sonorex?
Re: to Dr. E Davis Re: Sonorex treatment results.....Ed Davis, DPM on 11/13/04 at 10:10 (163816)
There ARE archives on this board in which I have explained throughout the years what my relationships and positions are. All you have to do is go to those or go to http://www.sonorex.com , a website I have supplied to realize that I lease and use a Siemen's Sonocur for off label use on the foot and ankle. I did so after visiting the Sonorex treatment center in Vancouver, BC to obeserve their excellent success rate with plantar fasciitis. That is the extent of my relationship. I have used Ossatron in the past and am willing to reconsider its use if the price/delivery structure can be modified and also use the Dornier unit as supplied by United. I beleive that all 3 work well for resolution of PF.
Re: Sonorex treatment results.....Ed Davis, DPM on 11/13/04 at 10:14 (163817)
You are courteous but again are providing partial information to confuse readers. What the FDA does not want is for MANUFACTURERS to advertise the off label use of their products which is what they have accused Warner-Lambert of doing. The FDA does not interfere with the doctor-patient relationship and allows doctors full freedom to use drugs and devices in an OFF-LABEL fashion. I think you know that. This post is for our reader's information.
Re: Sonorex treatment results.....Dr. Z on 11/13/04 at 17:37 (163862)
So what you are saying is that you know for a fact that there are no Siemans representative promoting the off label use of the Sonocur in the USA. Very strange how there are alot of foot and ankle orthopedic doctors using the sonocur. I guess they just decided to use the device from a dream. Time will time if they are violating any FDA laws.
Re: Sonorex treatment results.....john on 11/14/04 at 14:32 (163892)
In your previous post you asked me 'Why would the FDA want to go after Siemens for off label use when the device is SAFE.'. The reason is the same reason that the FDA went after Warner-Lambert.
In your previous post, you stated that Neurontin is used more off-label than on-label and is safe. The Sonocur is probably used more off-label than on-label(the elbow) and the Sonocur is safe. The situation with the Sonocur looks to be the same as the situation with Neurontin. Shouldn't the FDA investigate the off-label marketing of the Sonocur?
Re: Sonorex treatment results.....Ed Davis. DPM on 11/14/04 at 19:04 (163913)
I stated that Neurontin is used more off label but never said it was safe. Please stop misquoting me.
Neurontin is only one of the long list of drugs in its class used off label for nerve pain. Why should the FDA do anything to interfere with physician's ability to treat nerve pain? Again, the FDA only deals with marketing by the nanufacturer, not the providers. Obviously, you want to use the FDA as a tool to eliminate your competition.
Re: Sonorex treatment results.....john on 11/14/04 at 19:23 (163917)
Sorry if I misquoted you. I went back to your original post and copied and pasted into my post.
In your post abive, you said that Neurontin is used more off-label. The Sonocur is used more off-label. My point is that maybe the FDA might investigate Siemans for off-label marketing. Siemans is the manufacturer of the Sonocur and the Sonocur is marketed to podiatrists. Given that podiatrists cannot treat the elbow, Siemans knows that the device can only be used off-label. Hence Siemans is marketing and off-label use of the Sonocur. That is my logic. Is there another way to intepret the sale of the Sonocur to a podiatrist?
Please don't attribute motives to my posts. I want the FDA to protect the public from off-label marketing. Nothing prohibits Siemans from applying for FDA approval for the treatment of plantar fasciitis. Until then, I am sure that patients will find podiatrists who will prescribe the Sonocur off-label. At the minimum, you have made it very clear that you have a Sonocur and that you prescribe it off-label.
Re: Sonorex treatment results.....Ed Davis. DPM on 11/14/04 at 19:39 (163924)
Above, you misquoted me again, above, concerning Neurontin. Siemens has not performed any direct marketing that I know of either on or off label providers or patients. I solicited them not the other way around (that is Sonorex, not Siemens) after seeing the incredible success they were having with patients in Vancouver. I am not just looking at 'their' patients but patients I had referred northward before ESWT was available in my area. Also, keep in mind that Neurontin is only one drug in an entire class of drugs that are used more 'off label' than 'on label.' Why the drug manufacturers don't simply go to the FDA and obtain 'on label' indications for other drugs in that class such as Zarontin is something I cannot explain. Perhaps Neurontin's patent is too close to expiration for the drug companies to spend money on it yet they have to consider all of the drugs in that class that came out after Neurontin.
Re: Sonorex treatment results.....john on 11/14/04 at 19:47 (163929)
Without taking this personal, can you provide the exact sentence that is a misquote concerning Neurontin?
Re: Sonorex treatment results.....Ed Davis. DPM on 11/14/04 at 20:08 (163934)
I made no statemments as to the 'safety' of Neurontin. Please go through the strings so you can see the misquote.
Re: Sonorex treatment results.....john on 11/14/04 at 20:31 (163939)
Sorry about attributing 'safety' of Neurontin to your post. I guess I figured if it was prescribed more off-label than on-label it must be a safe drug? How dangerous is the drug and why is it prescribed of it is not safe? How can it be FDA approved if it is not safe?
Re: Sonorex treatment results.....Ed Davis, DPM on 11/15/04 at 09:18 (163959)
Most patients who are taking Neurontin do not really like it, usually because it makes them feel very 'spacey.' Much depends on the type of occupation. Patients who are executives or involved in occupations in which much mentation is involved claim difficulty doing their jobs with Neurontin but also with other drugs in that class. People try to put up with the side effects if the primary effect is sufficiently effective.
Again, the important maxim of 'first do no harm' in medicine is important. Irrespective of what one believes of in ESWT, the downside is so small that few modalities offer a benefit to risk ratio that looks better.
Re: Sonorex treatment results.....Theodore Flandreau on 9/15/08 at 08:13 (250189)
i stumbled across you threads as i was searching for the U.S. link to sonorex which seems to be gone. i was treated with sonorex about 3-4 years ago for tendonitus 'tennis elbow' by dr. jeffrey gross in NYC. before i went in to see him the the pain was so bad i could not even pick up a penny or hold a pencil. after 2 treatments using JUST the sonorex ESWT machine, i was cured..i did not want to even come in for a 3rd treatment but dr. gross insisted a 3 session treatment.
i have never had a recurring symptom since..2 years later i had wrist pain.. carpel tunnel...i went to see dr. gross...same routine...same results..and it was all covered by my insurance..this machine is a god damned miracle...recently i had knee pain.. i went to see dr. gross...it turns out that my pain was not something ESWT could cure...BUT...dr. gross told me that sonorex was having some issues...that insurance companies were no longer going to cover this procedure..that not everyone was having the success that thousands of others including myself were having.
this is truly a great loss to everyone worldwide, reading your threads about plantar issues and some drug related uses should not cloud the plain fact that this machine works. bottom line..case closed!!!!!!
if anyone needs me to testify in a court of law the effectiveness of sonorex and ESWT...PLEASE dont hesitate to contact me.
by the way..at the same time a good friend was having the same elbow pain i was having...he went and had the 'tennis elbow' surgery..i just saw him recently..he is still miserable after 3 months of rehab and 4 years have past...he still wears that velcro band around his arm...
THEODORE F. FLANDREAU V
teddyfive at hotmail.com