Who Has Had Ossatron and Did It Work?Posted by JenniferJuniper on 2/23/05 at 10:42 (169698)
I am trying to get a feel for whether the Ossatron is somewhat or very successful for us PF folks. Can you please tell me your Ossatron experience? Thanks!
Re: Who Has Had Ossatron and Did It Work?vince on 2/23/05 at 11:43 (169704)
Find a doc that uses the Dornier Epos. You can find a good doc @ http://www.unitedshockwave.com . Or you can e-mail me @ (email removed) and I'll give you some good info.
Re: Who Has Had Ossatron and Did It Work?Sharon B. on 2/23/05 at 16:16 (169722)
Some of us didn't/don't have the option Vince. And some of us are happy with the research we found on Ossatron.
Jennifer, I know I've read some success stories on here, you might try a search or someone may come on and answer. My husband had it 3 weeks ago and while he's a bit better, we aren't sure if it's because of the surgery or being home from work. The 'throbbing-burning pain while sitting' (his exact words) seems to be better. But he goes back to work next week. His doctor told him what everyone else on here says, it could take weeks. My husband also has a severe case (according to his surgeon) so we aren't sure what to expect.
Re: Who Has Had Ossatron and Did It Work?vince on 2/23/05 at 18:20 (169729)
Of course you have the option. United has service providers in almost every state. However you might be someone who wants the added expense and risk of IV sedation without any increase in the results of the procedure.
Re: Who Has Had Ossatron and Did It Work?Sharon B. on 2/23/05 at 18:42 (169736)
Why must you be so negative and who the heck are you anyway? It's hard enough to be positive about this dang condition without you slamming me every time I mention Ossatron. How much are they paying you and why are you allowed to continue to post here?
They do not have providers in my state, we did not have the option AT THIS TIME, and my husband's case was unusual and he had to have sedation, not that it's really any of your business. This will be the last post of yours I will read. Preach on.
Re: Who Has Had Ossatron and Did It Work?John on 2/23/05 at 19:11 (169738)
If you look at Vince's posts you might come to the conclusion that he either owns United Shockwave or works for them.
Re: Who Has Had Ossatron and Did It Work?vince on 2/23/05 at 19:35 (169744)
Neither is true. United is owned by doctors- I am not a doctor.
I do not work for them
I was expertely and sucessfuly treated with a Dornier provided by them, for a very fair fee. Therefore I will continue to recomend them like I would a contractor who put a roof on my house, expertly and for a fair price or any other service provider that I felt gave me good value for my $'s.
Re: Who Has Had Ossatron and Did It Work?John on 2/23/05 at 19:42 (169745)
You are doing more than recommending them. Why don't you spend the same effort recommending the podiatrist who treated you?
Did you know that United Shockwave also uses the Healthtronics Ossatron? Kind of makes you wonder whether both machines are equal.
Re: Who Has Had Ossatron and Did It Work?Sharon B. on 2/23/05 at 20:03 (169746)
Thank you. I figured as much.
Jennifer, good luck with what you decide. I do hope it works for you.
Re: Who Has Had Ossatron and Did It Work?JenniferJuniper on 2/23/05 at 20:31 (169747)
Yikes. Didn't mean to cause a stir here. Maybe we can hear from more people who have actually used the Ossatron.... Thanks for your info Sharon. Please keep me posted on your husband. This is really my last hope. I have done all other forms of therapy. I just can't get into laots more pain for lots more time. You know how it is.
Re: Who Has Had Ossatron and Did It Work?vince on 2/24/05 at 07:17 (169777)
It's not important to know the name of the podiatrist. He had very little to do with my treatment. I went to him with a previous diagnosis and the only reasons I chose him/her were the fee, the cost for the machine(which was $0.00) location in relation to where I live, availability, and the fact that he used the Dornier. All he/she did as give me 2 injections of Lidocaine and watch the United tech do everything else. I brought him/her my x-rays and records. My eligibility for the therapy had already been established and it had been many months since the low energy treatment had totaly failed.
Re: Who Has Had Ossatron and Did It Work?Scott R - moderator on 2/24/05 at 08:18 (169780)
This is the first post I can find from this particular John, so it seems he might be biased just as much as vince might be biased.
Re: Who Has Had Ossatron and Did It Work?Dr. Zuckerman on 2/24/05 at 12:30 (169798)
You got lucky. What if the failure of the low energy treatment was due to improper or wrong diagnosis. The most important aspect is the correct diagnosis and proper work up.
Re: Who Has Had Ossatron and Did It Work?vince on 2/24/05 at 17:59 (169827)
If what you propose is true and the cause of my foot pain before the low energy treatment was not PF and then after the treatment it chaged to PF? We can then take it one step further and state that there was the possibility that the low energy treatment caused me to develope PF and if it happened to me then it is likely that there were others who had the same happen to them.
Therefore a theorem: Dr. Z states that there is a possibility that low energy ESWT can cause PF that then can be cured by High Energy ESWT
Re: Who Has Had Ossatron and Did It Work?Cyndi on 3/06/05 at 10:20 (170564)
I read your response about the Dornier Espos being readily avaliable and to check the website. I have, there are no Dr.s in Arizona who are listed and the many e-mails I've sent requesting this information from them are not answered, so I assume they do not have an Dornier Espos machines available in Arizona. Therefore, my only options are Sonorex, which I had scheduled and canceled after reading the info on this site, and the Ossatron, which I am scheduled to receive the first of June. If I don't have the option of the Dornier, why doesn't anyone really respond with info about the Ossatron? It seems there are never any 'good' reponses about it, just a lot of arguing about using only the Dornier. Anybody else out there who was treated with the Ossatron who can give their opinion? Thanks
Re: Who Has Had Ossatron and Did It Work?elvis on 3/06/05 at 13:56 (170572)
From my reading of the materials on this website I concluded that the Dornier provides performance advantages as well as safety advantages. You can see from this link that the Dornier has slightly better end results. However 81% success rate is still quite good. I think another advantage of the Dornier is that they will use a local anesthetci only. With the Ossatron it appears that they probably will use either a general anesthetic or at least a twilight aneshtesia. There are risks to general and twilight anesthesia but they are small. Why take a risk if you don't have to? And get a better result? Last year there was a celebrity type lady (an author of some sort I think) who went in for cosmetic plastic surgery. She died from the anesthesia. What a shame. Doing something as silly as a facelift or liposuction and leaving the hospital in a bag with a tag on your toe!! What was she thinking of?
Anyway if you decide that you want the Dornier machine for your ESWT then come to San Diego and have it done here. You'll need someone to drive you. Go to United Shockwave's website and put in my zipcode 92064 (San Diego suburb)and you can find several doctors in the San Diego area that use the Dornier. The Arizonans come here all the time in the summer to escape the desert heat. Make a weekend trip out of it and help the local CA economy!! LOL
Re: Who Has Had Ossatron and Did It Work?elliott on 3/06/05 at 16:23 (170581)
Elvis, before you get carried away believing what you want to believe, even forgetting about different inclusion criteria between the studies, the 94% Dornier success rate shown on that site was based on just the Roles & Maudsley 4-point test (success defined as moving from Fair or Poor to Good or Excellent, and each of those terms are explicitly defined). Some may find it disappointing that only this score seems often to be used now as the sole measure of success, especially since it was selected after the fact; in the FDA paper, it was initially just one of several secondary scoring measures, the others of which didn't do too well, at least at 3 months. Ossatron, OTOH, had a completely different set of measures on which it based success, namely the following four:
1) investigator assessment of heel pain, with positive response defined as greater than 50 percent improvement over baseline and a VAS score of 4 or less on a 10 point scale; 2) the patient's self-assessment of pain, with a positive response defined as greater than 50 percent improvement over baseline and a VAS score of less than 4; 3) the patient's self-assessment of activity, with a positive response defined as improvement of 1 point on a 5-point scale, or maintenance of a baseline score of 0 or 1; and 4) use of pain medications, with a positive response defined as no use of pain medications for heel pain.
If memory serves me correctly, Ossatron then defined Excellent as passing at least 3/4, Good as 2/4, Fair 1/4 and Poor 0/4, numbers which I think were watered down from what was initially one higher in each group. Success, which I believe was defined as at least 2/4, resulted in the 81%. So you see, the 94% and 81% were derived in completely different ways. It was only coincidental that each study used the terms Excellent, Good, Fair, Poor. 94% beats 81%? My foot it does.
So which machine is better? Who the hell knows? I don't think you can tell based on these stats. But I claim a reasonable person seeking fair disclosure of the facts would say that to directly compare the E, G, F, and P values between studies without any explanation is just not right. I asked that site a long time ago to pull that 94% to 81% comparison, and to date it has not (but it did remove the language claiming it was a Roles & Maudsley comparison between machines, which it was not--only one was R&M).
Re: Who Has Had Ossatron and Did It Work?elvis on 3/06/05 at 18:51 (170588)
You're absolutley correct in that in order to have a valid comparison you should be comparing apples to apples and not apples to oranges. I have a couple of questions:
1. I like the fact that no general or twilight aneshtesia will be used with the Dornier. Do you agree with that advantage? Although I think I read somewhere on this site that someone got treated with an Ossatron and they only used a local on her.
2. I like the fact that the Dornier has an ultrasound feature to help guide treatment to specific areas. Do you think this is an adnvantage?
3. The difference in the way the Ossatron and dornier generated the sound waves did not seem like a big advantage to me since I haven't read anywhere that a more consistent sound wave (one with less variability) produces a better result.
4. Did you or do you have PF and were you treated with ESWT? If yes what machine was used on your foot?
I appreciate your knowledge and willingness to provide information. From learning about ESWT and its mechanism of action (proposed anyway) I would not think and do not expect instantaneous results. I wuld expect a gradual lessening of pain over a several weeks or even months period. It seems to be certainly worth a try since 14 months of conservative treatment hasn't worked at all.
I go to my orthopedic doctor on Tuesday to discuss Ossatron vs. Dornier. Right now if she won't do Dornier I will go to a local podiatrist and have him do the Dornier.
Re: Who Has Had Ossatron and Did It Work?elliott on 3/06/05 at 19:11 (170590)
1. Yes, I agree about local vs. general. But I would gladly submit to a general if I felt the odds for success were greater.
2. Ultrasound is an advantage only if it increases the odds of success, especially over another machine. This is unclear to me.
3. Unclear to me also. And I would think things like infinite adjustment and a higher max are less valuable to a patient undergoing a pre-determined protocol, but definitely more valuable to an investor in case the protocol changes.
4. Did not have PF. Currently, my wife does, my secretary does, etc. Would consider ESWT for non- or malunion of bone if needed for my current surgical recovery.
Thanks. I wish you well and hope you recover.
Re: Who Has Had Ossatron and Did It Work?.debi f. on 3/07/05 at 17:29 (170643)
i am having this kind of surgery on march 24th 2005 i am alittle scsred why cant i stay awake with drugs instead of having to be put to sleep/ it is scary to go to sleep.do you have alot of pain after wards how long before you can go back to work.
Re: Who Has Had Ossatron and Did It Work?Ralph on 3/07/05 at 17:42 (170646)
If you don't get many responses you can do a search of older posts by using the Search area on this website. It's a nice feature because it allows you to read what others have posted before you got to the site.
I use it quite often.
Re: Who Has Had Ossatron and Did It Work?DriverWilde on 3/07/05 at 19:26 (170662)
Have the Ossatron. I challenge someone to produce a study that says the Ossatron doesn't work. Shame that can't be said about all devices. Wish I could buy a fleet of them. -Dw