What's the best running shoe for PF?Posted by edentru on 5/03/05 at 08:53 (174154)
I am training for the Chicago Marathon and spent the winter recovering from PF. I went to Physical Therapy, stopped running completely, stretched and used ice and ibuprofin. Now that I am in training, I want to assure that it does not return. There are mornings that I feel the reminders of the pain. Can you recommend a good running shoe or tell me what to look for in a shoe to avoid this coming back?
Re: What's the best running shoe for PF?KW on 5/03/05 at 13:10 (174180)
I just got a GREAT pair of Sauconys! I love them and the people in the know who have looked at them say they are very supportive shoes. I'm not sure of the model, but I'm sure if you go to a specific running store they will have different models to chose from. The only prob is, they are rather expensive, but worth every penny I believe. Good luck on the marathon!
Re: What's the best running shoe for PF?Linda V on 5/03/05 at 20:57 (174206)
I am not a doctor and I am not a runner...but IF I were...and IF I still had any reminding pain of PF....I would put my running career on hold. I think the joy of watching from the sidelines would far outweigh the pain of another outbreak. And from the sidelines...I would wear high number New Balance. I like the 880 model, but I hear the newer ones with higher numbers are even better.
Re: What's the best running shoe for PF?Julie on 5/04/05 at 00:43 (174212)
I'm not a doctor, but I would say that if you are still getting morning reminders of PF pain, it matters very little what shoes you wear: however good they are, training for a marathon now is more than likely to bring on a recurrence. If you want to ensure that your PF doesn't return, wait until you are fully healed. There's no mistaking that: it means no pain following activity, and even then you will need to be watchful, because the *cause* of your problem, especially if biomechanical, won't have disappeared. Once PF is a thing of the past, it would be best to resume running gradually, watching for those 'reminders'. Generally speaking, the effects of overdoing activity aren't felt immediately, but 24-36 hours afterwards.
Do be careful. There will be marathons galore every year, but your feet have got to last you the rest of your life.
Re: What's the best running shoe for PF?Elyse B on 5/04/05 at 05:06 (174215)
I wear Mizuno Creations because I like the 'wave' in it meaning it has more of an arch than any sneaker that I have tried which seems to work well for me. I have tried NuBalnce 880 and they did not work for me and Asics as well. Orthotics to date have not worked. I have continued running with PF because nothing has made it go away and it is has not gotten worse. In fact, left foot now completely pain free and right foot has pain. Still trying to figure out how to fix right foot. In any case, as you can see from the posters, they advocate not running. Do what is best for you. I did a half marathon a few weeks ago and have another one planned for 5/14. Will do in pain of course.
Re: What's the best running shoe for PF?Julie on 5/04/05 at 07:05 (174219)
Elyse, you're of course entitled to share your experience. But it is not a question of posters not advocating running, it is a matter of what is most likely to promote healing, and what is most likely to hinder it. In five years here, during which I have read just about every post (except when I have been on holiday) I can remember only one poster besides yourself saying that they continued to run through PF and that it did not hurt them. In contrast there have been dozens, possibly hundreds, who have said that 'running through the pain' was a bad mistake. Many have been left with a longterm, chronic condition that prevents them not only from running, but from living a normal life. Running through PF means re-injuring the already injured fascia with every step. It is really not a good idea. I cannot remember any of the doctors ever advocating that a poster with PF continue running, let alone train for a marathon.
I am not contesting your experience, simply attempting to give this poster a broader, more balanced view.
Please remember that this is the 'Ask the Doctor' board, so you should indicate that yours is not a professional medical response.
Re: What's the best running shoe for PF?Elyse B on 5/04/05 at 12:34 (174237)
I AM NOT A DOCTOR. How come you do not admonish KW for his/her posting regarding sneakers and not stating that he/she is not a doctor. Give me a break, and stop the sanctimonious stuff please.
Re: What's the best running shoe for PF?Julie on 5/04/05 at 14:16 (174242)
Why did I not comment on KW's post? Because KW is (1) a new poster and unfamiliar with the conventions of posting on the Ask the Doctor board; and (2) answered the question about shoes without offering an opinion about the wisdom or otherwise of running. I thought that you, with several months reading and posting experience here, would know better than to make a post which could be construed - by a new poster who is a keen runner without much knowledge of PF - as giving the seal of approval to running with PF.
You've been able to run with PF, and (assuming you have PF, which you yourself have said you are not sure about) so far it has done you no harm. That is nice for you. But your experience is unusual, if not unique, and I would not like new posters to glean from it that it's ok to run with PF.
I hope this answers your question.
Re: What's the best running shoe for PF?Susan on 5/04/05 at 15:07 (174252)
It seems to me that any time you give advice you should say whether or not you are a medical professional, not just on the Ask the Doctors board. Nothing about Elyse's post sounded like she was presenting herself as a medical professional, so I doubt her saying whether or not she was would be an issue here. Not only that, but she even noted that others would recommend against running, so there was no need to remark on either point.
Re: What's the best running shoe for PF?Elyse B on 5/04/05 at 15:17 (174255)
I did not give any advice on the wisdom of running so I am not sure what you are getting at. In fact I said ' Still trying to figure out how to fix right foot. In any case, as you can see from the posters, they advocate not running.' I don't see how that can be construed as anything other than my opinion.
Frankly after being on this board for over a year, I don't think there is ANY consenus on what is OK for PF and whether or not one thing is 'better than another.' What works for one certainly does not mean it is going to work for another. That goes for ESWT which is highly advocated by the doctors on this board. Maybe the posters and readers on this board should not glean that it is 'okay' to do yoga, have ESWT, ice, use night splits etc. etc. because that might not necessarily be the case.
Re: What's the best running shoe for PF?john king on 5/04/05 at 15:19 (174256)
I agree with Linda V. If you end up with chronic PF you running days are over and your walking days may be over as well. Your feet are telling you something.
Re: What's the best running shoe for PF?john king on 5/04/05 at 15:27 (174258)
I think it does depend on the kind of pain you have as regards activity levels. I know that with my pain I could not run two blocks much less a marathon. If I try and work through the pain I just end up being completely disabled for days at a time. PF is an inflamation problem. If you ankle is swollen it does not help to bang on it with a hammer. When you are running you are pounding the PF.
By the way, David Wells, the Yankee Pitcher tore his PF and is in a boot. Jolting Joe Dimaggio(spelling?) had heel spurs and suffered a lot. It probably shortened his career.
Re: What's the best running shoe for PF?Elyse B on 5/04/05 at 15:32 (174259)
John you are probably ight, but I can deal with the pain. I know running is probably not the smartest thing to do but again it has not gotten a bit worse and the left foot got better. Maybe David Wells should have ESWT, how come we never ever hear of atheletes having that procedure?
Re: What's the best running shoe for PF?elliott on 5/04/05 at 16:18 (174262)
Elyse, we do sometimes hear of athletes having ESWT. Here's one recent heelspurs discussion of a prominent athlete who had it:
Re: What's the best running shoe for PF?elliott on 5/04/05 at 16:30 (174263)
Susan, I'd like to go the other way: no one should ever have to say whether they're a medical professional or not since it's unnecessarily burdensome. There is a prominent warning at the top of the Ask the Doctors board. And this is the internet, after all, so the advice-seeker should always beware.
Re: What's the best running shoe for PF?Elyse B on 5/04/05 at 18:44 (174268)
thanks Elliot but then again he said it came back and was not working!!! Yikes.
Re: What's the best running shoe for PF?elliott on 5/04/05 at 22:44 (174275)
Elyse, all you asked for is athletes who had the procedure, not whether it was successful. :-) Later updates seemed to suggest that after the second treatment, Pujols got a lot better. He's playing great now, but let's keep an eye out if his PF comes back during the season.
Re: What's the best running shoe for PF?Julie on 5/05/05 at 02:55 (174286)
Elyse, you are quite right that what works for one is not necessarily going to work for others. That's why I think that people should not depend on the mixed bag of opinions and other people's experience that they read on these boards, but should find a good foot doctor, get a full examination and evaluation and an accurate diagnosis of their problem and its cause, and a treatment plan that addresses the cause.
Nevertheless, there are a few 'constants', and one of them is that running through the pain is likely to turn a mild or moderate case of plantar fasciitis into a serious, possibly chronic one. This doesn't seem to be a matter of opinion. However the problem is dealt with, through orthotics, exercise, night splints, taping, Birkenstocks, resting, cortisone injections, ART, surgery, or ESWT, there is general agreement, given the nature of the condition, that running will make it worse.
I am glad for you that you appear to be the exception to this generality. But I think it's important to provide some perspective on this issue when a new poster arrives saying s/he is training for a marathon. If Edentrue had had only our original responses - my warning about running, and your saying you were running with PF - and given that none of the doctors have responded to her, she might have gone away thinking, 'well, Julie thinks it's not all right to run, and Elyse thinks it is, at least for her, so the consensus is 50-50'. If I were training for a marathon and keen to keep training, I know which response I would want to hear, and probably go with: yours.
That's why I responded as I did: to give a broader view. I know it irritated you, but I thought it was necessary, and I haven't changed my mind.
Re: What's the best running shoe for PF?Elyse B on 5/05/05 at 05:17 (174291)
well Julie I am not sure you know runners. I would bet my 'feet' that this person is going to run the marathon regardless of what is said on this board by you OR me. Runners do what they want and because they have trained for months and most of them end up suffering the consequences if any.
One aside, as for the 6 podiatrists that I went to, ALL six of them said I had PF and as I mentioned many times, all 6 said I needed orthotics. So I guess I have PF.
I agree with you about certain constants regarding treatment but I would have to differ with ESWT. It just seems to me that there is a greater percentage of people it does not work for than those it does work for. But again that is only what I read on the Boards.
Re: What's the best running shoe for PF?Julie on 5/05/05 at 06:12 (174293)
I would bet my feet on that too, Elyse - it's what I was hoping to help her avoid! But as Edentru seems to be one of the many many who post and then never look in to see if there have been responses, or to thank those who responded, we're obviously talking to ourselves (and to each other, of course, which is nice).
I thought I remembered your saying you were not sure if you had PF - I'm sorry if I got that wrong. It was a while ago.
I mentioned ESWT as one treatment in a long list of treatments, some of which will be helpful to some people, some to other people, maybe some to no people. I didn't put it forward as a constant in the PF firmament, but this may not have been clear. The only constant I put forward was that running with PF is likely to make PF worse, and likely to tip what could have been a treatable and relatively quickly healed condition into a severe and possibly chronic and difficult to treat condition.
In fact there have been a number of runners who have realised this, thanks to the cautions given on this website, and stopped running while they were dealing with PF. Bob G is a great example - now healed and running again. So I thought I'd repeat it again, in case any new runners are reading. :)
Re: What's the best running shoe for PF?Elyse B on 5/05/05 at 07:38 (174299)
I think I have always had the atypical PF because I never had morning pain, just arch pain. I guess my point is that running through PF has been 'doable' by certain people but definitely not by all.
I just don't think there is a one treatment that fits all for PF. As I 'lurk' on the ESWT board it is frightening to me how high the failure rate is. I have been noticing more and more how podiatrists in NYC are advertising ESWT to cure 'soup to nuts' and the advertisements are all over the subways and in the newspapers. That scares me.
But again, let's bet 'my feet' that the poster does the marathon. You would be surprised how many members of my running club, run with injuries because they have trained long and hard for a particular race. Not saying it is smart, but something they do.
Re: What's the best running shoe for PF?john king on 5/05/05 at 16:31 (174318)
I think tennis players are also prone to PF. I hurt myself the first time pushing a mail container at the post office. These containers were very heavy and I strained to push them on a hard cement floor. I finally got so I could not walk. It was as if I was trying to walk on a wet floor. My arch would just not bend. Since that time I have had problems with my feet.
Re: What's the best running shoe for PF?Ed Davis, DPM on 5/05/05 at 18:12 (174323)
If you go to the Sonorex treatment center in Vancouver you will see a wall covered with autographed pictures of professional athletes who used to have PF.
Re: What's the best running shoe for PF?Ed Davis, DPM on 5/05/05 at 18:19 (174324)
Everyones's foot is different and has different needs so that complicates efforts to find one shoe that is best for everyone. Probably more than 2/3 of people with PF are overpronators so a motion control shoe like the New Balance 1122 or Brooks Beast/Ariel are helpful for that category.
If you are very serious about running I would seek the advice of the type of running shoe store that sells to 'hard core' runners. Going a step further, see a pedorthist (professional shoe fitter and orthopedic shoe specialist) and/or possibly a podiatrist.
Re: What's the best running shoe for PF?Ed Davis, DPM on 5/05/05 at 18:23 (174325)
ps. many pro-players and celebs keep their maladies quiet. A key menas of marketing for doctors is to be able to state that 'I treated a particular athlete or celbrity' --- the majority of celebrities and pro-athletes find that to be too intrusive into their private lives.
Re: What's the best running shoe for PF?Ed Davis, DPM on 5/05/05 at 18:34 (174326)
Tennis shoes, by the nature of their design, protect the plantar fascia less than running shoes.
Re: What's the best running shoe for PF?Ed Davis, DPM on 5/05/05 at 18:42 (174327)
pps. Remember Don Johnson of Miami Vice and later he did a police show as a policeman in San Fran. --- he has a big autographed picture on the Vancouver Sonorex wall as well as other celebs. I bring this up because once an individual has offered an endorsement, no violation of privacy exists in mentioning their name. Aparently Don Johnson sounded extremely happy with Sonocur , remembering his letter...
Re: To all: please read Scotts intro. above......Ed Davis, DPM on 5/05/05 at 18:52 (174328)
ScottR above lists several docs who have been 'regulars' on the board and states that 'not all repsonses are from doctors.' ScottR asked several docs if we wanted this board closed off to doctor responses only but most of the docs felt that ScottR had provided adequate 'warning' about this issue in the introduction to this board. This is one of several boards on the site.
Keep in mind that there are individuals who don't have medical degrees but, after being on the site for 4 to 5 years probably know more than a lot of docs do. Also keep in mind that there are numerous areas of healthcare in which comptetent, caring and experienced practitioners may not be doctors but are doing there best to make a contribution to the site. After all, Scott cannot have board for 'ask the physical therapist,' 'ask the yoga instructor and so on. Latitude need be provided for well intentioned professionals of all 'stripes' to contribute.
Re: To all: please read Scotts intro. above......john king on 5/06/05 at 09:47 (174376)
I agree. I am not a doctor but have suffered from PF for many years. I know that certain things are bound to aggravate it. I know also that if a doctor suggests surgery after one visit it is time to get a second opinion. How many have been hurt by too rapidly jumping into surgery based on one doctor's opinion? I wish PF was like a broken bone where you get it set and wear a cast for 6 weeks and it is all better, but it is not like that at all. I see people who weigh 300 pounds and they do not have PF and I have had it for 20 years and was not overweight when it started. It kills me to see people working the check-out line at the grocery store who are 70 years old, and I know I could not do that for 30 minutes.